A Challenge to the Title of Most Clueless Catholic™

 

Democratic Vice Presidential Nominee Senator Time Kaine is mounting a serious challenge to Vice President Joe Biden and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi for the title of America’s Most Clueless Catholic™. (There is a special category for Secretary of State John Kerry, but Ricochet’s Code of Conduct doesn’t allow one to name it).

During his keynote address at the national dinner for the Human Rights Campaign, an influential LGBT advocacy group, Kaine predicted that the Catholic Church will eventually drop its opposition to same-sex marriage. Channeling the gobbledygook that, at times, comes from Pope Francis, Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined:

“I think it’s going to change because my church also teaches me about a creator who, in the first chapter of Genesis, surveyed the entire world, including mankind, and said, ‘It is very good’.”

Kaine (also) cited Pope Francis’ “who am I to judge” comment, and then said: “I want to add: Who am I to challenge God for the beautiful diversity of the human family? I think we’re supposed to celebrate it, not challenge it.”

Like many of his fellow contenders for the title, Kaine cherry-picked his verses, forgetting the parts about God creating man in His own image, creating them male and female, and commanding them to be fruitful and multiply. But heck, why sweat the details for such a lofty goal?

Of course Kaine, adopts the mantra of his mentors by being “personally opposed” to abortion. This however, has not prevented him from receiving a 100 percent rating in 2016 from the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the political arm of the nation’s largest abortion provider and, recently, a perfect rating from NARAL Pro-Choice America. Why let your principles inform your actions, right?

Of course, the progressive media love it when a Catholic runs as a Democrat. For instance, the New York Times gushed over Kaine’s “spiritual awakening” in Honduras. But as one writer has put it, it seems the experience brought Kaine closer to Karl Marx than Jesus Christ. Of course, with his grounding in Liberation Theology, and his upbringing under Jesuit influence — and the friendships he carried on with the liberation theology priests — has given Kaine a bond with the Pope:

“I really feel I know him,” Mr. Kaine said. “The age he was in 1980 and ’81 was about the same age as a lot of my friends were. The Jesuits.”

Sheesh.

But Kaine should not assume his title in this august contest will remain unchallenged. Not to be outdone, two members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops — Bishop Oscar Cantú of Las Cruces and Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, Archbishop Emeritus of Washington D.C. — signed a joint declaration last month with Iranian Religious leaders that contained this type of nonsense:

Christianity and Islam share a commitment to love and respect for the life, dignity, and welfare of all members of the human community. Both traditions reject transgressions and injustices as reprehensible, and oppose any actions that endanger the life, health, dignity, or welfare of others. We hold a common commitment to peaceful coexistence and mutual respect.

What a world we live in. The race is on for the title.

Published in Religion & Philosophy
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  1. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined…

    Yet more evidence that you don’t know the first thing about Jesuit training.

    Maybe so, but I was just passing on what the progressive sycophants gush about when a “Catholic” is on their side.

    Kaine’s Catholicism has been strongly influenced by the Jesuits – the order Pope Francis is part of that has long been associated with education and social justice. In the United States, Jesuit schools and parishes are often seen as the most progressive and open-minded. Kaine was educated at an all-boys Jesuit high school in Kansas City, and the program where he worked in Honduras was founded by Jesuits.

    Kaine himself doesn’t seem to refute this.

    • #31
  2. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    Tommy De Seno:“Gobbledygook” from the Pope? I’ve seen the media misunderstand him, but I don’t recall Gobbledygook.

    But hey who am I to judge?

    I’m word limited but how about his latest bit of gobbledygook:

    So let me propose a complement to the two traditional sets of seven: may the works of mercy also include care for our common home.

    As a spiritual work of mercy, care for our common home calls for a “grateful contemplation of God’s world” (Laudato Si’, 214) which “allows us to discover in each thing a teaching which God wishes to hand on to us” (ibid., 85). As a corporal work of mercy, care for our common home requires “simple daily gestures which break with the logic of violence, exploitation and selfishness” and “makes itself felt in every action that seeks to build a better world” (ibid., 230-31).

    We should certainly be good stewards of the earth but care for the environment as a work of mercy? Really?

    • #32
  3. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    Quake Voter:Sorry Scott, but the male and female aspect, as well as the interpretation of fruitfulness, are subject to a different interpretation.

    Well, as I’ve read that story it’s about Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. But then, I’m Catholic and everyone knows we don’t read the Bible.

    • #33
  4. Scott Wilmot Member
    Scott Wilmot
    @ScottWilmot

    Marion Evans:Both Kaine’s comment and the statement by the Catholics/Iranian clerics express a desire for change, for something that is different in the future. They are not an interpretation of current theology. As such, I see nothing wrong with them. Of course this future may not materialize.

    Well, if Kaine had a clue about his faith he would understand that the Church cannot change Her teaching on marriage so he is trying to interpret the theology.

    • #34
  5. KC Mulville Inactive
    KC Mulville
    @KCMulville

    Scott Wilmot: Maybe so, but I was just passing on what the progressive sycophants gush about when a “Catholic” is on their side.

    Yeah, I know, it’s nauseating.

    Of course, when a Catholic says “We should do (fill-in-the-blank)…” you’ll get a load of people who proudly proclaim the authority behind the proposal. And yet when the same guy proposes something they don’t like, the authority mysteriously disappears.

    But we’ve had so many cases of hypocritical “arguments by authority” you’d have thought most observers would be onto the scam by now … sadly, a whole bunch of people keep falling for it.

    • #35
  6. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Isaac Smith:Jeez, he’s not even going to wait until he’s in the White House before he gets out the scissors and starts cutting out the parts he doesn’t like? I guess Romans, First Corinthians and First Timothy are all about to get a little shorter. Leviticus probably gets tossed completely.

    I was under the impression that Leviticus had already been tossed.  Every time I ask about shellfish or mixing fabrics, I get told that by some evangelical.

    • #36
  7. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    Scott Wilmot:

    Marion Evans:Both Kaine’s comment and the statement by the Catholics/Iranian clerics express a desire for change, for something that is different in the future. They are not an interpretation of current theology. As such, I see nothing wrong with them. Of course this future may not materialize.

    Well, if Kaine had a clue about his faith he would understand that the Church cannot change Her teaching on marriage so he is trying to interpret the theology.

    The French Revolution within the Church has never been about changing teachings; its about changing behavior.

    • #37
  8. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    KC Mulville:Of course, when a Catholic says “We should do (fill-in-the-blank)…” you’ll get a load of people who proudly proclaim the authority behind the proposal. And yet when the same guy proposes something they don’t like, the authority mysteriously disappears.

    The left wants us to take the Pope’s personal opinion on subjects such as capital punishment and the welfare state as dogma, but actual dogma regarding things like abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality is just some old white man’s opinion.

    • #38
  9. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Umbra Fractus:

    KC Mulville:Of course, when a Catholic says “We should do (fill-in-the-blank)…” you’ll get a load of people who proudly proclaim the authority behind the proposal. And yet when the same guy proposes something they don’t like, the authority mysteriously disappears.

    The left wants us to take the Pope’s personal opinion on subjects such as capital punishment and the welfare state as dogma, but actual dogma regarding things like abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality is just some old white man’s opinion.

    Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

    They use Protestantism the same way, of course.  If I have a religious reason to oppose abortion or same-sex marriage, I’d better shut up about it in any political conversation, or I’m a theocrat.  If some politician claims to be a Protestant and supports a bigger welfare state because Jesus tells us to care for the poor, he’s just being a good Christian.

    Thus sayeth the Left.

    • #39
  10. John Fitzgerald Inactive
    John Fitzgerald
    @JohnFitzgerald

    Scott Wilmot:

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined…

    Yet more evidence that you don’t know the first thing about Jesuit training.

    Maybe so, but I was just passing on what the progressive sycophants gush about when a “Catholic” is on their side.

    Kaine’s Catholicism has been strongly influenced by the Jesuits – the order Pope Francis is part of that has long been associated with education and social justice. In the United States, Jesuit schools and parishes are often seen as the most progressive and open-minded. Kaine was educated at an all-boys Jesuit high school in Kansas City, and the program where he worked in Honduras was founded by Jesuits.

    Kaine himself doesn’t seem to refute this.

    Some Jesuits forget that they are Catholic, and resent being reminded.

    • #40
  11. John Fitzgerald Inactive
    John Fitzgerald
    @JohnFitzgerald

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Maybe so, but I was just passing on what the progressive sycophants gush about when a “Catholic” is on their side.

    Yeah, I know, it’s nauseating.

    Of course, when a Catholic says “We should do (fill-in-the-blank)…” you’ll get a load of people who proudly proclaim the authority behind the proposal. And yet when the same guy proposes something they don’t like, the authority mysteriously disappears.

    But we’ve had so many cases of hypocritical “arguments by authority” you’d have thought most observers would be onto the scam by now … sadly, a whole bunch of people keep falling for it.

    The buzzword to look for among Catholics who want to reject Catholic orthodoxy, and replace it with their progressivism, is when they (incorrectly) cite John Henry Newman and his argument regarding relying upon one’s “conscience.”

    • #41
  12. John Fitzgerald Inactive
    John Fitzgerald
    @JohnFitzgerald

    Umbra Fractus:

    KC Mulville:Of course, when a Catholic says “We should do (fill-in-the-blank)…” you’ll get a load of people who proudly proclaim the authority behind the proposal. And yet when the same guy proposes something they don’t like, the authority mysteriously disappears.

    The left wants us to take the Pope’s personal opinion on subjects such as capital punishment and the welfare state as dogma, but actual dogma regarding things like abortion, euthanasia, and homosexuality is just some old white man’s opinion.

    Excellent point.  And many incorrectly think that whenever the Pope speaks, he speaks infallibly.  Progs like to push their agenda at all times, but especially where people have an incorrect understanding about facts.

    For the record, and as an RC, when Pope Francis addressed Congress, his statements about ending the death penalty globally, but not mentioning the death penalty known as abortion, were absurd.

    • #42
  13. Isaac Smith Member
    Isaac Smith
    @

    Fred Houstan:

    Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association

    Finally, Christ and Marx, hand-in-hand.

    Probably not, but American Catholic Church in the United States?”  Or American National Catholic Church?  Those are “Catholics” any Progressive could love – God is love, so haters can’t be real Christians, and the Roman Catholics are haters, so not real religion entitled to protection under the 1st Amendment.

    • #43
  14. John Fitzgerald Inactive
    John Fitzgerald
    @JohnFitzgerald

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined…

    Yet more evidence that you don’t know the first thing about Jesuit training.

    There are some fantastic Jesuit educational institutions, and members of the Society of Jesus to boot.  However, there are also, prominent schools founded by Jesuits, which have forgotten their Catholic identity, and have replaced it with progressive politics.  In fact, many Catholic schools, aren’t.

    • #44
  15. Isaac Smith Member
    Isaac Smith
    @

    Cato Rand:

    Isaac Smith:Jeez, he’s not even going to wait until he’s in the White House before he gets out the scissors and starts cutting out the parts he doesn’t like? I guess Romans, First Corinthians and First Timothy are all about to get a little shorter. Leviticus probably gets tossed completely.

    I was under the impression that Leviticus had already been tossed. Every time I ask about shellfish or mixing fabrics, I get told that by some evangelical.

    Not applicable to Christians, but still in the book.

    • #45
  16. Isaac Smith Member
    Isaac Smith
    @

    John Fitzgerald:

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined…

    Yet more evidence that you don’t know the first thing about Jesuit training.

    There are some fantastic Jesuit educational institutions, and members of the Society of Jesus to boot. However, there are also, prominent schools founded by Jesuits, which have forgotten their Catholic identity, and have replaced it with progressive politics. In fact, many Catholic schools, aren’t.

    When we were visiting colleges with my oldest son, we stopped at Georgetown.  After the orientation he said we could skip the tour and head straight for NY.  When I asked why, he said if he attended a Catholic school it would be one that wasn’t ashamed to be Catholic.

    • #46
  17. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Isaac Smith:

    John Fitzgerald:

    KC Mulville:

    Scott Wilmot: Kaine dug deep into his Jesuit training and opined…

    Yet more evidence that you don’t know the first thing about Jesuit training.

    There are some fantastic Jesuit educational institutions, and members of the Society of Jesus to boot. However, there are also, prominent schools founded by Jesuits, which have forgotten their Catholic identity, and have replaced it with progressive politics. In fact, many Catholic schools, aren’t.

    When we were visiting colleges with my oldest son, we stopped at Georgetown. After the orientation he said we could skip the tour and head straight for NY. When I asked why, he said if he attended a Catholic school it would be one that wasn’t ashamed to be Catholic.

    I was going to let this go, but then I decided, Nah.  There is a significant amount of dissent at Georgetown over its mission–one prominent critic is William Peter Blatty of Exorcist fame–but the term “ashamed” is inappropriate (even if based on no more than an orientation).   Georgetown may well be erring too much on the side of secularism in attempts to maintain its academic stature, but, simply put, if one wants a religious experience there, it’s not hard to find.

    Ministry.

    • #47
  18. Fred Houstan Member
    Fred Houstan
    @FredHoustan

    Franz Drumlin: Duke University. And, Mom and Dad – tuition is a mere $67,399 per year!

    Sigh. For the record, he’s not Catholic, so he’s a bit of a forced entry into the Catholic hall of apostasy that started this thread.

    I’m guessing having “Western Nazism,” “Nazi hermeneutics” as your specialties doesn’t hold the same panache within gilded ivy halls, which is too bad.

    Both systems are repugnant.

    • #48
  19. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    CM:“He made them MALE and FEMALE and saw that it was good.”

    As you were saying?

    Wait, so when did He create all the other genders?

    • #49
  20. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Isaac Smith:

    I was under the impression that Leviticus had already been tossed. Every time I ask about shellfish or mixing fabrics, I get told that by some evangelical.

    Not applicable to Christians, but still in the book.

    Christians read the Old Testament in light of the New Testament.  The New Covenant replaces the Old.  We don’t discard the Old Testament, we treasure it, but we read the Bible as a coherent whole, we don’t chop it up into bits and then pick the ones we like and discard the rest.

    • #50
  21. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    2016-09-12_11-05-37

    Make a mess.

    • #51
  22. Cato Rand Inactive
    Cato Rand
    @CatoRand

    Joseph Stanko:

    Isaac Smith:

    I was under the impression that Leviticus had already been tossed. Every time I ask about shellfish or mixing fabrics, I get told that by some evangelical.

    Not applicable to Christians, but still in the book.

    Christians read the Old Testament in light of the New Testament. The New Covenant replaces the Old. We don’t discard the Old Testament, we treasure it, but we read the Bible as a coherent whole, we don’t chop it up into bits and then pick the ones we like and discard the rest.

    That’s fine, but it leave a lot of room for doctrine to “evolve.”

    • #52
  23. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    There are some fantastic Jesuit educational institutions, and members of the Society of Jesus to boot

    Please name them.

    • #53
  24. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    St. Thomas Aquinas on Leviticus
    One of the most profound commentaries written on the ceremonial precepts of the Old Law is that of St. Thomas Aquinas, as found in his Summa Theologiae q. 102). It is very illuminating to see how St. Thomas probes and penetrates into the Old Testament sacrifices to see their symbolisms (and the value of this analysis is such that it merits being quoted in full):

    • #54
  25. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Cato Rand:

    Joseph Stanko:

    Isaac Smith:

    I was under the impression that Leviticus had already been tossed. Every time I ask about shellfish or mixing fabrics, I get told that by some evangelical.

    Not applicable to Christians, but still in the book.

    Christians read the Old Testament in light of the New Testament. The New Covenant replaces the Old. We don’t discard the Old Testament, we treasure it, but we read the Bible as a coherent whole, we don’t chop it up into bits and then pick the ones we like and discard the rest.

    That’s fine, but it leave a lot of room for doctrine to “evolve.”

    Seems about right, but only within certain parameters.  In particular, you need a criterion (or set of criteria) for knowing the difference between the Levitical rules that go with “Do not commit adultery” and those that go with the sideburn and shellfish regulations.

    There’s a lot that can’t evolve, but our understanding of the relevant criterion/criteria, and of what rules go which direction, can evolve.

    • #55
  26. Fred Houstan Member
    Fred Houstan
    @FredHoustan

    Joseph Stanko: We don’t discard the Old Testament, we treasure it, but we read the Bible as a coherent whole, we don’t chop it up into bits and then pick the ones we like and discard the rest.

    There’s a most excellent Lutheran Satire that explains this.

    • #56
  27. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Cato Rand: That’s fine, but it leave a lot of room for doctrine to “evolve.”

    Good thing we have a magisterial teaching authority to guide us, then.

    • #57
  28. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph Stanko
    @JosephStanko

    Scott Wilmot:Not to be outdone, two members of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops — Bishop Oscar Cantú of Las Cruces and Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, Archbishop Emeritus of Washington D.C. — signed a joint declaration last month with Iranian Religious leaders that contained this type of nonsense:

    Christianity and Islam share a commitment to love and respect for the life, dignity, and welfare of all members of the human community. Both traditions reject transgressions and injustices as reprehensible, and oppose any actions that endanger the life, health, dignity, or welfare of others. We hold a common commitment to peaceful coexistence and mutual respect.

    Not sure I understand what you find so objectionable here.  Jesus did say “blessed are the peacemakers,” which seems to be what they are trying to accomplish here.

    What they signed is certainly true of Christianity, and that’s the only religion they can speak to with any authority.  Whether it’s true of Islam is up to the Islamic leaders to say, and if these particular Iranians say it is, is that such a bad thing?  Aren’t we always asking “where are the moderate Islamic leaders, why don’t they condemn this violence?”  Apparently we found a few.  Now we need to hold them to their statement, and point out any future backtracking.

    • #58
  29. Johnnie Alum 13 Inactive
    Johnnie Alum 13
    @JohnnieAlum13

    Joseph Stanko:

    Cato Rand: That’s fine, but it leave a lot of room for doctrine to “evolve.”

    Good thing we have a magisterial teaching authority to guide us, then.

    It’s Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. With the guidance of the Magisterium.

    Unlike our separated brethren who only have the Bible and their many, different interpretations.

    • #59
  30. KC Mulville Inactive
    KC Mulville
    @KCMulville

    Pseudodionysius:There are some fantastic Jesuit educational institutions, and members of the Society of Jesus to boot

    Please name them.

    As it is, I can name quite a few, whose holiness, scholarship, and personal decency are extraordinarily edifying. And unless you’re prepared to rebut me on any of them, I’d wonder why you’d demand names.

    • #60
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