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I did. I found Rick Wilson’s words to be a bracing tonic.
Get a switch.
So how would one register their opposition to both Trump and Hillary? Either vote third party or don’t vote at all. The article is just more of the same Trumpist nonsense. Trump won the primary…so what? Why does that make him qualified or worthy of anything? I didn’t vote for him then and I don’t see what compels me to vote for him now.
All of these argument are worthless. Nothing new is being added. I’ve made up my mind on this and only something really drastic is liable to change it. What I can not say.
Enjoyed the article.
Also, just finished the audiobook of The Devil’s Pleasure Palace by Walsh. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I love the current Republican Party. Trumpsters want it dead. Theres no way around that. Pleading for me to help them out is a lost cause. Trump needs to start tacking left and recruiting Democrats that also hate the GOP.
Ha! Guess what? You already lost. And you will lose again if Trump isn’t elected. The GOP will never recover from this. The only way forward is if Trump wins. Then there’s a chance of reconciliation.
If he loses, the Democrats will smear all the nevertrumpers anyway. They will continually make you guys jump through hoops denunciating anyone who was for Trump. This will further drive the party apart.
It will be a 4 year show trial. Besides losing power and credibility with ordinary voters, having pissed off the Tea Party and now the Trump movement, there will be more imported Democrats, more attacks on Republicans through the IRS etc. and another level of censorship imposed (they are not done yet) and then who’s going to be nominated to take on Kaine I mean Hillary?
There will be a third party, a viable one. All the smart Republicans of all ideological stripes are supporting Trump because they see the futility in neverTrump.
Screen shots from PredictIt or nothing. I haven’t seen one Trumpist take me up on that yet. You’re insufficiently committed unless you’ve monetarily bought in. How much have you donated to the Trump campaign so he can
line his pocketspay his vendors?Trump may get 50 million votes. Then he’ll claim that this is somehow a victory or that there was fraud or something… it’s all very tiresome and predictable. The scale of the catastrophe is the only thing left to be determined. Trumpists don’t even bother to defend the idea that Trump can actually win – would you like to explain to me how he can do that?
As the man once said, this too shall pass. The error that is Trump will suddenly be orphaned, as all such failures are. All the Smart Republicans are running as far and fast away from Trump as they can because the party and the movement will go on from here, your doomsaying aside.
Gee, moral preening. Where have I heard that before?
But thanks for the Milton quote. Without that, this line of thought has been stated better and sooner by the Ricochet Trump supporters. How many different ways can one rephrase “Look at the alternative”?
I don’t want it dead. I want it:
-Conservative.
-Accountable.
-Responsive to the people.
Channeling Wesley, posing as the Dread Pirate Roberts, guess I’ve got to “get used to disappointment.”
Many on this site were upset about having to vote for Romney four years ago. As Rob used to say, the GOP always nominated the “next guy.” We didn’t nominate the next guy and people are upset about it.
People thought this was the election. We’d get our guy, or Carly. Trump’s entry concerned few, but also energized others. His nomination left some feeling a similar frustration they felt with Romney, but this time the resultant anger is more intense. Why?
Maybe more than a person conservatives want to elect some sort of symbol. As with Romney, McCain, etc., the person disappointed their symbolic ideal. We vote for people, not symbols. Expecting an ideal means you’ll be disappointed no matter what.
Okay, so on the personal level there is a distaste for Trump. Yet, once again, a candidate has been elevated/reduced to symbolic value. To his detractors he represents all that’s wrong with voters, with America, etc. All their anger projected onto the symbol of their frustration. Is the frustration Trump? No, it’s “I didn’t get what I want.”
We all see different things. We just do. I get the “conscience vote.” That’s how Romney lost. People stayed home. Politics, to me, is about policy. I want us to have access to the power of the Executive. I want us to talk about things we’ve been afraid to talk about. I wanted Walker, but I’m pleased to have Trump.
I read it. I rolled my eyes. “But Hillary!” and belittling NeverTrumpers, same song as the rest. Using Milton to demand participation was a new twist, but ultimately not persuasive.
I don’t think it’s true that Romney lost because conservatives stayed home. Turnout among conservatives was only down in states that Romney won. Romney lost because he didn’t win over enough independents, particularly in swing states.
Trump will lose because he hasn’t bothered to try to win over independents. He just goes to rallies where everyone there already supports him and cheer at anything he says, but that won’t swing any independent voters. Trump would much rather preach the choir than convert people. And PJ Media would rather blame conservatives than Trump for that.
Meh.
Speaking of Milton, “Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven” could be the NeverTrumper motto.
And here I was thinking it was the reverse.
Do you meant that Trump voters would rather serve under Hillary than win the election?
Perhaps the most ridiculous cliche that exists is the, “if you don’t vote, you can’t complain” nonsense. Citizenship – and the rights that are extended therein – is not conditional on voting. One who chooses not to vote is no less a “good citizen” than a voter and the non-voter has just as much legitimacy in dissent as does the voter.
In the absence of an adequate alternative (the write-in of Evan McMullin will likely be an option here in PA), I will be leaving the top of the ballot empty in 2016. This does not equate to the relinquishment of my rights in any way.
I don’t know if they were “conservatives” or not. They were registered GOP voters. Isn’t that all we heard about afterward? If we’d gotten our people out we would have won?
I agree on this (implicit in your post): coulda, woulda, shoulda. Probably doesn’t matter much.
I heard people say that, but I wouldn’t say it is “all” we heard. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t think there is any evidence that GOP voters staying home cost Romney the election. Romney won white voters by a higher margin than Reagan did, there were just fewer of them, which is why the 2012 autopsy said the GOP had to make inroads with minorities. The primary voters went a different way.
I do find it interesting that the author from the OP feels compelled to point out their lack of support in the primary.
This is their way of saying, I never wanted Trump, so it’s not my fault that he is the nominee, and when he loses big, I can remind everyone of my primary opposition to him as a way to save face after embarrassing myself by banging the drum for such a horrible candidate for so long. If Trump was a horrible choice as the nominee, he is a horrible choice as President. You can’t have it both ways.
When you acknowledge the horribleness of Trump (as the article does in the opening paragraph), it’s really hard to say you want to declare war on people who think Trump is horrible.
I agree Karl and understand your position. It is difficult for me to read this and not think it an abdication of responsibility for what’s to come. And I mean that with no disrespect to your position, it’s just my perspective; that is, my vote is for my future. I can’t not be a part of this. Your perspective is probably similar.
Do what you must, and, besides, there is no “block comment” feature here! We can easily endure because there is so much else to agree on.
I want no such thing and, as said above, was also keen on Walker. The escalation of anger is a result of insults passing back and forth. Really, just a waste of time.
It’s tough to characterize the remark as acknowledging “the horribleness of Trump,” don’t you think? I was pleased Trump brought immigration into the discussion and forced the candidates to talk about something substantive.
I would think any candidate that is crass, vulgar, and prone to “quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy” is a horrible candidate.
I will not be bullied, harangued, or shamed into exercising my franchise as an act of political calculus masquerading as moral argument, rather than as an answer to the voice of my well-formed conscience.
(Appreciate the opportunity, Pseudo!)
Oh, okay. Got you. I was thinking it was Pseudodonawhatever’s comment. So, even while conceding the author’s characterization, I’m not convinced the article was a declaration of war. He has an opinion. Pseud-su-sudio (dating myself here) apparently shares it. Others don’t. That’s what we’re here for. Thanks for the discussion, A.
Fair enough. I didn’t fully realize that the “declares war on never Trump” was something Pseudo added to the Walsh article, so I incorrectly attributed the desire to start a war to Walsh, creating confusion. I apologize for that.
Victory slips out of my grasp at the last possible moment…
Ain’t that beautiful — and perfect. It reminds me of TR’s “In the Arena.”
Exactamundo.
I guess I’m really doing this voting thing wrong. I vote policy over person. I didn’t like Romney policy. I didn’t like McCain record. I’m near to fully in alignment with Trump policy (as written on his site… please don’t flood me with “he doesn’t mean it”…).
I got so tired of hearing how Tea Partiers were cramping up the Republican House’s style and causing issues… by Republicans. I hated every time someone mentioned immigration that making it a REAL issue and seriously discussing ANYTHING other than outright amnesty was going to lose an election.
If I’m voting for anyone, even if they lose, I want it known that THIS is what I support. I support curbing immigration until our (real) unemployment numbers are down and wages are up. I support halting H1B visas until our college-educated are back in work (did you know mathematicians are among the top 40 unemployed college graduates?) I support stopping immigration from countries that have a high likelihood of contributing to loss of safety while our resources and infrastructure are currently struggling to maintain order among people who are ALREADY CITIZENS. And I want it know that this was never a losing issue.
I want the GOP to know this is what I mean when I cast a vote. I’m not casting it for the guy “Who can win” but for the guy who has the policies I support, regardless of speaking style.
Yes, NeverTrump is a form of nihilism.