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If there was ever a year for a frustrated conservatarian to consider voting for the Libertarian Party ticket, 2016 would seem to be a godsend: Trump and Clinton are … well, no need to rehash this … and the Libertarians have nominated not one but two former Republican governors. But as Ilya Shapiro
I’ve long said that Johnson is a terrible libertarian and that nominating him was a mistake. This confirms it.
I literally have no one to vote for and its depressing as heck.
Anyone check lately on how well Seasteading is doing?
Tom and Jamie, you are engaging in the nirvana fallacy. You are comparing Johnson/Weld to some idealized view of a libertarian candidate. That is pointless. There are a lot of flavors of libertarians, just as with republicans and democrats, and no candidate can be expected to fully satisfy. Moreover, you are certainly not comparing Johnson/Weld to the real world alternatives that this year’s political process has puked up. Take a deep breath, come down from your ivory towers, and look at the options before you. I think when you do it will be clear enough that however imperfect you find them, you’d be overjoyed if Johnson/Weld were to pull an upset in 2016.
From the Shapiro article:
I’m also afraid that Gary Johnson is attempting to capture a political center that appears, for the moment, to be abandoned. However, I do anticipate that Hillary will move back towards the center as the campaign progresses. I will be surprised if the L ticket manages more than 2-3% nationally when the votes are counted. That will be 2-3x their high-water mark (2012), but minuscule relative to the apparent opportunity. Indeed, I’ll wager some quatloos that the Green Party bests their vote total this year.
There is no doubt that Johnson and Weld are far from even good candidates but the arguments usually applied to trump fit them perfectly. Literal outsiders from any faction of political party (they have political history but no real connections). They have no established leftist influences like clump do. If elected by the Republicans of the house they would more or less receive a mandate that favored conservative policy rather than that of the left. Not to mention given their past they would be far more likely to act with republicans than democrats whereas trump has said he would have no inhibitions being a free agent.
Not to mention the fact that they would also be pulling predominantly from the center right in their appointments and the like given their political past. The same cannot currently be said for clump. In terms of foreign policy from the libertarian debates I have seen Johnson is also more hawk than dove but not by much.
Sure Johnson/Weld is flawed considerably but they are not nearly as flawed as clump.
Because those people are “wrong” on sex and drugs. And that’s what really matters to LP voters.
Standing up for liberty, and religious liberty is a key component of liberty, and nominating justices who are not hostile to liberty are two of my basic requirements for a libertarian. Johnson/Weld fails spectacularly on both of those two relatively easy hurdles.
Yup.
Well, the Constitution Party is on the ballot in Florida, so that’s probably who I will vote for.
I agree with you on the religious liberty question. But in this cycle, you don’t have a candidate to vote for who will defend religious liberty any better than Johnson/Weld. On that question Hillary will be worse, and Trump will at best be no better. So unless you regard it as a gating question (I don’t) I think you’re back to picking the best of a bad to imperfect lot.
Judges are a gating question for me and there is not a single candidate out there who I trust on the subject.
No, actually, we’re not.
Johnson/Weld is not even close to likely to win. Thus, the value in voting for Johnson/Weld is to register a protest against the two candidates who have a chance against winning.
In order for that protest to have any chance at advancing a constructive change in the future political landscape, it has to have an unambiguous message, if only to make one of the major parties take the hint and pivot in that direction. A successful pro-liberty candidate could pull the Republicans back toward liberty, especially if Trump loses. A successful Johnson/Weld ticket and a Trump loss is going to pull them towards, what, exactly? I don’t know, but I’m gussing it’s the RINOism that created Trump.
The man is not sure we should have intervened in WWII. Even Clinton thinks we should have done that. Personally, I don’t want a pot head as President.
Anyone who thinks that someone should be fined by the Federal Government for refusing service in not libertarian in any definition I have ever heard. That is authoritarian through and through.
Yeah, me too. I deal with it this way: Stop Hillary. It’s the most important thing. Just stop Hillary. She’s too big a disaster. Right now, it looks like Trump is the only way we have to stop Hillary. He’s crude, he’s vulgar, he’s no gentleman. But Hillary is no lady. She’s a congential liar and worse. Add stridency, law breaking and corruption to that. She wants to amend the Constitution to take our liberty and our rights away from us. Trump doesn’t.
If a libertarian vote would stop Hillary, I’d be all in for it. But I fear a libertarian vote propels Hillary straight into the White House. Ouch.
This.
I do not want the Libertarians to think that this kind of mealy mouthed pseudo-liberty message is the way forward. They should not be rewarded for abandoning key aspects of liberty.
I don’t want to sidetrack this into another Trump or Hillary debate – we have more than enough of those. Suffice to say I disagree.
Libertarians went with Republicans. The Republicans are going with a Democrat and the Democrats have fully embraced Socialism.
Maybe it is time to give the fat naked guy another look . . . well, maybe not literally?
I think libertarians are too focused on the individual most of the time, and that there are community rights too. Being for Federal law going after cake makers is so far from libertarian it is not passable. Why the Libertarian Party appointed this guy is beyond me, unless it is because they are nuts. (the Party Apperachniks, not small l libertarians).
L. Neil Smith, founder of The Libertarian Enterprise and author of Down with Power, has just announced that he will (very) reluctantly vote for Trump this time. “…I’ll take my chances on the used car salesman.” There are some mildly non-CoC turns of phrase in this essay.
Look, the bar has been set low:
Are Johnson / Weld NOT terminally insane incompetent megalomaniacs? Yes. Check.
Are Johnson / Weld NOT terminally corrupt pathological liars? Yes. Check.
Looks like I will vote for them with two hands. Though maybe not in another time or place.
The worst part is, I’m not sure which candidate is which.
You’re right. I could have saved ‘ink’ and written only one sentence.
Hans-Adam of Liechtenstein is my write in candidate of choice.
I must respectfully disagree. Johnson’s aversion to religious liberty capitulates to the community at the expense of the individual. Focusing on the individual’s rights always works, unless we can’t even agree on what a right is.. doh!
This sums up my sentiments pretty well. Two guys who belong neither in prison nor the nuthouse. What more could you ask for?
Agreed. I have serious policy disagreements with Johnson and Weld. Neither would make a short (or long) list of my preferred candidates. But of the candidates who will be on the ballot in 50 states, theirs is the ticket that represents the lowest probability of terrible outcomes. That’s hardly the approach I’d like to take toward casting my vote and things might change as this most depressing and unpredictable of election years continues to unfold. But considering that Clinton and Trump both miserably fail a basic character test for being entrusted with the power of the presidency, it’s hard to see a better option.
Why didn’t Austin Petersen get the nomination? Was it the name recogniton of Johnson to get the LP ticket out there?
I guess there are no parties who got the best choice for candidate.
There are indeed many different types of Libertarians. The line between some Libertarians and Anarchists is pretty well defined. An Anarchist will throw a brick through a plate glass window while the Libertarian only throws metaphorical bricks.
I suspect that a Libertarian would run to the city council just as fast as anyone else if the property owner next door to them decided to convert his property into a junkyard.
Probably. Johnson has a pretty big following in the LP.