Trump: Putin’s Manchurian Candidate?

 
The Daily Beast

The Daily Beast

In light of the DNC hack (which digital signatures point to Russia), we would expect the Democrats to divert attention from their embarrassing emails confirming Trump and Bernie’s accusations of a ‘rigged system’. Schadenfreude for the Right, indeed.

However, as the Left’s automatic impulse to shift the narrative of DSW’s fall from grace, they are pointing to shinier squirrels which may have a more significant impact on the 2016 election. Their story is slowly gaining an audience and being analyzed by many on the center-right, although don’t expect to hear much about it this week during the DNC celebration of government largesse.

The story about Trumps and Putin’s relationship has been bantered about for almost a year. Some refer to Trumps admiration of Putin’s authoritarian style of rule, others (such as Clinton campaign manager wunderkind Robbie Mook) pointed out the emails were leaked “by the Russians for the purpose of helping Donald Trump” citing “experts” but offering no other evidence”.

Another former democratic wunderkind referred to the rumors and posed the question directly: “Are there any ties between Mr. Trump, you or your campaign and Putin and his regime?” George Stephanopoulos, of “This Week,” asked Paul Manafort, Mr. Trump’s campaign chairman. “No, there are not,” Mr. Manafort shot back. “That’s absurd. And, you know, there’s no basis to it.”

The Left have decided to dig much deeper into this. Articles point to Trump as one of many opportunists who tried to cash in on Russia’s dismantled economy starting in the late 80’s. Western businessmen treated Russia as the new gold rush and some instantly became billionaires. However in 1998 many investors were destroyed as the economy collapsed into a massive financial crisis. Reports of western businessmen being gunned down by contract killings which were rumored to be connected to the Moscow government scared much of the Western business interests away.

Then in 2000 commodity prices and oil started to skyrocket. Moscow was suddenly filled with luxury cars, high-end restaurants and night clubs. Luxury hotels were the rage and as commodity prices continued to only go up, everyone wanted back in. Re-enter Donald Trump whose gold-leafed stylings were a dove-tail joint for Moscow’s gaudy chic.

In an effort to venture beyond the conservative echo chamber, I’ll point to the Left-leaning Talking Points Memo which laid out a long list of “basic facts”. (Bold inserted for quicker reading). Please see below for the muted response from the Right.

1. All the other discussions of Trump’s finances aside, his debt load has grown dramatically over the last year, from $350 million to $630 million. This is in just one year while his liquid assets have also decreased. Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks.

2. Post-bankruptcy Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin. Here’s a good overview from The Washington Post, with one morsel for illustration …

Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world.

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

3. One example of this is the Trump Soho development in Manhattan, one of Trump’s largest recent endeavors. The project was the hit with a series of lawsuits in response to some typically Trumpian efforts to defraud investors by making fraudulent claims about the financial health of the project. Emerging out of that litigation however was news about secret financing for the project from Russia and Kazakhstan. Most attention about the project has focused on the presence of a twice imprisoned Russian immigrant with extensive ties to the Russian criminal underworld. But that’s not the most salient part of the story. As the Times put it,

“Mr. Lauria brokered a $50 million investment in Trump SoHo and three other Bayrock projects by an Icelandic firm preferred by wealthy Russians “in favor with” President Vladimir V. Putin, according to a lawsuit against Bayrock by one of its former executives. The Icelandic company, FL Group, was identified in a Bayrock investor presentation as a “strategic partner,” along with Alexander Mashkevich, a billionaire once charged in a corruption case involving fees paid by a Belgian company seeking business in Kazakhstan; that case was settled with no admission of guilt.”

Another suit alleged the project “occasionally received unexplained infusions of cash from accounts in Kazakhstan and Russia.”

Sounds completely legit.

Read both articles: After his bankruptcy and business failures roughly a decade ago Trump has had an increasingly difficult time finding sources of capital for new investments. As I noted above, Trump has been blackballed by all major US banks with the exception of Deutschebank, which is of course a foreign bank with a major US presence. He has steadied and rebuilt his financial empire with a heavy reliance on capital from Russia. At a minimum the Trump organization is receiving lots of investment capital from people close to Vladimir Putin.

Trump’s tax returns would likely clarify the depth of his connections to and dependence on Russian capital aligned with Putin. And in case you’re keeping score at home: no, that’s not reassuring.

4. Then there’s Paul Manafort, Trump’s nominal ‘campaign chair’ who now functions as campaign manager and top advisor. Manafort spent most of the last decade as top campaign and communications advisor for Viktor Yanukovych, the pro-Russian Ukrainian Prime Minister and then President whose ouster in 2014 led to the on-going crisis and proxy war in Ukraine. Yanukovych was and remains a close Putin ally. Manafort is running Trump’s campaign.

5. Trump’s foreign policy advisor on Russia and Europe is Carter Page, a man whose entire professional career has revolved around investments in Russia and who has deep and continuing financial and employment ties to Gazprom. If you’re not familiar with Gazprom, imagine if most or all of the US energy industry were rolled up into a single company and it were personally controlled by the US President who used it as a source of revenue and patronage. That is Gazprom’s role in the Russian political and economic system. It is no exaggeration to say that you cannot be involved with Gazprom at the very high level which Page has been without being wholly in alignment with Putin’s policies. Those ties also allow Putin to put Page out of business at any time.

6. Over the course of the last year, Putin has aligned all Russian state controlled media behind Trump. As Frank Foer explains here, this fits a pattern with how Putin has sought to prop up rightist/nationalist politicians across Europe, often with direct or covert infusions of money. In some cases this is because they support Russia-backed policies; in others it is simply because they sow discord in Western aligned states. Of course, Trump has repeatedly praised Putin, not only in the abstract but often for the authoritarian policies and patterns of government which have most soured his reputation around the world.

7. Here’s where it gets more interesting. This is one of a handful of developments that tipped me from seeing all this as just a part of Trump’s larger shadiness to something more specific and ominous about the relationship between Putin and Trump. As TPM’s Tierney Sneed explained in this article, one of the most enduring dynamics of GOP conventions (there’s a comparable dynamic on the Dem side) is more mainstream nominees battling conservative activists over the party platform, with activists trying to check all the hardline ideological boxes and the nominees trying to soften most or all of those edges. This is one thing that made the Trump convention very different. The Trump Camp was totally indifferent to the platform. So party activists were able to write one of the most conservative platforms in history. Not with Trump’s backing but because he simply didn’t care. With one big exception: Trump’s team mobilized the nominee’s traditional mix of cajoling and strong-arming on one point: changing the party platform on assistance to Ukraine against Russian military operations in eastern Ukraine. For what it’s worth (and it’s not worth much) I am quite skeptical of most Republicans call for aggressively arming Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. But the single-mindedness of this focus on this one issue – in the context of total indifference to everything else in the platform – speaks volumes.

This does not mean Trump is controlled by or in the pay of Russia or Putin. It can just as easily be explained by having many of his top advisors having spent years working in Putin’s orbit and being aligned with his thinking and agenda. But it is certainly no coincidence. Again, in the context of near total indifference to the platform and willingness to let party activists write it in any way they want, his team zeroed in on one fairly obscure plank to exert maximum force and it just happens to be the one most important to Putin in terms of US policy.

Add to this that his most conspicuous foreign policy statements track not only with Putin’s positions but those in which Putin is most intensely interested. Aside from Ukraine, Trump’s suggestion that the US and thus NATO might not come to the defense of NATO member states in the Baltics in the case of a Russian invasion is a case in point.

There are many other things people are alleging about hacking and all manner of other mysteries. But those points are highly speculative, some verging on conspiratorial in their thinking. I ignore them here because I’ve wanted to focus on unimpeachable, undisputed and publicly known facts. These alone paint a stark and highly troubling picture.

The Hill, a right-leaning publication refers to Russian investments into Trumps’ assets. It raises the question for Conservatives that if this was the Clinton’s there would be likely investigations.

Has the Russian money and Moscow ties had consequences and does it shape candidate Trump’s foreign-policy thinking or that of the advice he receives from his aides? It is certainly a question that would be asked — and rightly so — of Hillary Clinton, if the shoe was on the other foot. Saudi donations to the Clinton Global Initiative have come under scrutiny, as well they should.

Other pressing questions present themselves. Has the U.S. election cycle been targeted by the Russians for ‘active measures? The hacking in mid-June of Democrat National Committee computers and the stealing of opposition research on Donald Trump by, according to some experts, Russian intelligence-linked groups is a clear sign for some analysts such as Anders Aslund of the Atlantic Council that Putin is engaged in “active measures in [the] U.S. presidential campaign.”

So, is it a case of leftist journo’s creating a narrative where there is none, or is there really something to this?

In other words, is where there’s smoked herring, there’s caviar?

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 119 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    And then again, there are other explanations possible…

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/26/is-the-dnc-leak-putins-idea-of-payback/

    • #31
  2. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Mudwallow:Between Mr. Trump’s remarks a few days ago, and those from his would-be Secretary of State, you can’t help but wonder if there is a quid pro quo between Mr. Trump and Mr. Putin regarding the Baltic states. The deal: a future President Trump would turn America’s back on the Baltic states in return for monetary and other assistance from Mr. Putin’s friends and the Russian FSB during the election campaign. If so I would warn Mr. Putin ahead of time that Mr. Trump is not known for honouring his business agreements.

    Two years ago this would have been tin foil hat stuff but no longer. When the facts lead a certain way you have no choice but to at least have a look in that direction.

    I’m not #NeverTrump. Im #NeverHillary. But the landscape is filled with nothing but corruption, whether it’s political cronyism and lies on the Left, or too many unanswered questions on the Right.

    A fetal position, thumb sucking safe space sounds pretty good right about now.

    • #32
  3. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    TKC1101 :And then again, there are other explanations possible…

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/26/is-the-dnc-leak-putins-idea-of-payback/

    Yes, that’s incentive for the hack, but what about the aforementioned crony Trump alliance?

    • #33
  4. Dan Hanson Thatcher
    Dan Hanson
    @DanHanson

    Misthiocracy:

    Jamie Lockett:The NATO stuff is truly scary. Per usual Trump has taken a legitimate point: some NATO allies don’t live up to their treaty obligations, and Trumped all over it by unilaterally declaring he would not honor the treaty with those states. This would have the side effect of weakening the treaty and commitment of all states in the treaty effectively ending NATO.

    < devil’s advocate mode = on >

    Well, if they’re not honoring the treaty, why should the US honor the treaty?

    If you want to get them to honor the treaty, what tactic would you use other than threatening to pull out of the treaty?

    < devil’s advocate mode = off >

    The whole purpose of Article 5 in the NATO treaty is to provide clarity.  The most dangerous situation is one in which your adversaries question your motives,  your commitment, and your ability to meet your commitment.  The universal defence clause in the NATO treaty means that aggressors like Putin don’t have to wonder if there’s really a commitment to defending small, relatively unimportant states.   They don’t have to wonder if a missed payment or a reduction in spending allocation to defence might mean that the time is ripe for an invasion.   This lack of clarity of purpose makes a war in Europe much more likely.

    Destroying clarity is exactly what the Obama administration did by issuing and then ignoring the red line in Syria and in refusing to respond to Chinese aggression in the South China Sea.   The lack of clarity is what caused Hitler to misjudge Europe’s reaction to the invasion of Poland,  and for Japan to misjudge the U.S.’s response to Pearl Harbor.  It’s also what caused Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait.

    In one short phrase,  Donald Trump just destroyed that clarity for the NATO nations.   He’s not even President yet and he has done significant harm to the peace and stability of Europe.  If he’s not a stooge for Putin,  he might as well be.  Everything he has said and done leading up to this moment is exactly in line with what Putin wants to hear.

    And even if he is acting totally on his own ideas,  Trump is certainly vulnerable to extortion if his businesses have as much Russian money in them as TPM suggests.   This should make it mandatory that Trump release his tax returns NOW.   Everyone should be calling for that,  because having a President whose personal empire depends on financing by America’s enemies is an incredibly dangerous thing.

    • #34
  5. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Misthiocracy:

    Jamie Lockett:The NATO stuff is truly scary. Per usual Trump has taken a legitimate point: some NATO allies don’t live up to their treaty obligations, and Trumped all over it by unilaterally declaring he would not honor the treaty with those states. This would have the side effect of weakening the treaty and commitment of all states in the treaty effectively ending NATO.

    < devil’s advocate mode = on >

    Well, if they’re not honoring the treaty, why should the US honor the treaty?

    If you want to get them to honor the treaty, what tactic would you use other than threatening to pull out of the treaty?

    < devil’s advocate mode = off >

    Is the world afraid of Russia re-entering Eastern Europe? The Ukraine and Crimea should be a warning.

    If Putin had such intentions, who would he prefer to have in the WH? If the narrative above is correct, I would assume he would want someone who he believes he has leverage over.

    • #35
  6. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Dave Sussman:

    TKC1101 :And then again, there are other explanations possible…

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/26/is-the-dnc-leak-putins-idea-of-payback/

    Yes, that’s incentive for the hack, but what about the aforementioned crony Trump alliance?

    I need more than he borrowed Russian money for real estate. Half the east coast developers would be in the same boat.

    If you find proof of quid pro quo, let me know.  Right now I see Hillary as far more destabilizing than Trump after her Egypt, Libya and funny games in Russia.

    Trumps SOS will tell me a lot. The sad fact is, if you want to contain Iran, you need to cut a deal with Russia. Anyone who tells you different is fooling themselves.

    • #36
  7. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Dan Hanson:

    Misthiocracy:

    Jamie Lockett:The NATO stuff is truly scary. Per usual Trump has taken a legitimate point: some NATO allies don’t live up to their treaty obligations, and Trumped all over it by unilaterally declaring he would not honor the treaty with those states. This would have the side effect of weakening the treaty and commitment of all states in the treaty effectively ending NATO.

    < devil’s advocate mode = on >

    Well, if they’re not honoring the treaty, why should the US honor the treaty?

    If you want to get them to honor the treaty, what tactic would you use other than threatening to pull out of the treaty?

    < devil’s advocate mode = off >

    The whole purpose of Article 5 in the NATO treaty is to provide clarity. The most dangerous situation is one in which your adversaries question your motives, your commitment, and your ability to meet your commitment. The universal defence clause in the NATO treaty means that aggressors like Putin don’t have to wonder if there’s really a commitment to defending small, relatively unimportant states. They don’t have to wonder if a missed payment or a reduction in spending allocation to defence might mean that the time is ripe for an invasion. This lack of clarity of purpose makes a war in Europe much more likely.

    Destroying clarity is exactly what the Obama administration did by issuing and then ignoring the red line in Syria and in refusing to respond to Chinese aggression in the South China Sea. The lack of clarity is what caused Hitler to misjudge Europe’s reaction to the invasion of Poland, and for Japan to misjudge the U.S.’s response to Pearl Harbor. It’s also what caused Saddam Hussein to invade Kuwait.

    In one short phrase, Donald Trump just destroyed that clarity for the NATO nations. He’s not even President yet and he has done significant harm to the peace and stability of Europe. If he’s not a stooge for Putin, he might as well be. Everything he has said and done leading up to this moment is exactly in line with what Putin wants to hear.

    And even if he is acting totally on his own ideas, Trump is certainly vulnerable to extortion if his businesses have as much Russian money in them as TPM suggests. This should make it mandatory that Trump release his tax returns NOW. Everyone should be calling for that, because having a President whose personal empire depends on financing by America’s enemies is an incredibly dangerous thing.

    As usual, Dan nails it.

    • #37
  8. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    Jamie Lockett:

    Misthiocracy:

    Jamie Lockett:

    Misthiocracy:

    Jamie Lockett:The NATO stuff is truly scary. Per usual Trump has taken a legitimate point: some NATO allies don’t live up to their treaty obligations, and Trumped all over it by unilaterally declaring he would not honor the treaty with those states. This would have the side effect of weakening the treaty and commitment of all states in the treaty effectively ending NATO.

    < devil’s advocate mode = on >

    Well, if they’re not honoring the treaty, why should the US honor the treaty?

    If you want to get them to honor the treaty, what tactic would you use other than threatening to pull out of the treaty?

    < devil’s advocate mode = off >

    Threaten to expel them from NATO. Once you say you won’t hold up your end for any reason then what expectation do other countries have that you will honor the treaty when called?

    Yabbut, how would you expel them when they control the majority of the votes around the NATO boardroom table?

    The Baltic states do not control the majority of the votes.

    I don’t think Trump is referring to only the Baltic states when he says “they” aren’t holding up “their” end of the treaty.

    • #38
  9. Salvatore Padula Inactive
    Salvatore Padula
    @SalvatorePadula

    I just don’t understand why his supporters think Donald is going to bring jobs back to America when he’s outsourcing his oppo research to the FSB.

    • #39
  10. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    Dan Hanson: And even if he is acting totally on his own ideas, Trump is certainly vulnerable to extortion if his businesses have as much Russian money in them as TPM suggests. This should make it mandatory that Trump release his tax returns NOW. Everyone should be calling for that, because having a President whose personal empire depends on financing by America’s enemies is an incredibly dangerous thing.

    Even if he did release them, they’d only be his personal tax returns. Any Russian money in his businesses would be part of corporate financial filings, not his personal filings.

    • #40
  11. TKC1101 Member
    TKC1101
    @

    Salvatore Padula: I just don’t understand why his supporters think Donald is going to bring jobs back to America when he’s outsourcing his oppo research to the FSB.

    Jobs Americans won’t do.

    • #41
  12. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Saudia Arabia and Bushes

    Muslim Brotherhood and Obama

    Clinton and anyone in the foundation

    • #42
  13. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    TKC1101 :

    Dave Sussman:

    TKC1101 :And then again, there are other explanations possible…

    http://hotair.com/archives/2016/07/26/is-the-dnc-leak-putins-idea-of-payback/

    Yes, that’s incentive for the hack, but what about the aforementioned crony Trump alliance?

    I need more than he borrowed Russian money for real estate. Half the east coast developers would be in the same boat.

    If you find proof of quid pro quo, let me know. Right now I see Hillary as far more destabilizing than Trump after her Egypt, Libya and funny games in Russia.

    Trumps SOS will tell me a lot. The sad fact is, if you want to contain Iran, you need to cut a deal with Russia. Anyone who tells you different is fooling themselves.

    Your support is reassuring and yes, Hillary is the devil we know. But that’s the thing… how would we know about any QPQ until it’s too late? After learning about this, who can absolutely and confidently assert a Trump Presidency wouldn’t prevent NATO being weakened for self serving motives?

    • #43
  14. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Jamie Lockett:

    Dave Sussman:

    BrentB67:Dave, I don’t have good answers to your well posited questions.

    Your scenario(s) seem plausible. What I am unsure of is what benefit does Trump offer that Hillary does not? I am not aware of her being some kind of Ukraine hawk.

    Thanks @brentb67. Hillary was the author of the much celebrated but failed “Russian Reset”. That idealism represented by her stupid Staples ‘that was easy’ red button, says more about her disillusionment. All show and marketing, no steak.

    Meanwhile, the question is, what do Putin and Co. have on Trump.

    Considering Russia’s ability to dump treasuries and a being nuclear super power, I’m not sure we are in tin-foil hat territory asking these questions.

    Could Putin exert influence over Trump by threatening to pauperize him personally? If the financial connections run as deep as this indicates we could have a President personally indebted to a foreign power. Yikes.

    I would wish Putin well on that front. He still sells hydrocarbons denominated in dollars and requires access to SWIFT. I am not sure how successful he is going to be targeting the man that nominates the Chair of the Fed and Secretary of the Treasury.

    • #44
  15. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Salvatore Padula:I just don’t understand why his supporters think Donald is going to bring jobs back to America when he’s outsourcing his oppo research to the FSB.

    He’s only bringing back the jobs building air conditioners that are stirring up ISIS or something .

    • #45
  16. Quake Voter Inactive
    Quake Voter
    @QuakeVoter

    Remind me, which candidate approved the sale of Uranium One, with half of US uranium production and vast Canadian holdings, to the Russians?

    Which candidate’s family foundation received $145 million after that transaction?

    Which candidate’s spouse received $500,000 in speaking fees from the same parties?

    Maybe when the the Russians pull out of the New York real estate market I can buy the old family bungalow in Rockaway for less than $800,000!

    Do you think the candidate who answers to the first three questions is very interested in damaging the credibility of any further emails that may be leaked by the Russians?

    Klavan rule — damaging disclosures re Democrats must be transformed into a witchhunt over security breaches — at work.

    • #46
  17. Mark Coolidge
    Mark
    @GumbyMark

    For what it’s worth, here is an article critiquing the memo quoted in the OP.  I think there are rational reasons for Putin to support Trump or Hillary and that if he does indeed have Hillary’s state department emails due to her criminal negligence he may really be in an influential position no matter who he ultimately prefers.

    Fact Checking That “Trump & Putin” Things

    • #47
  18. Chris Johnson Inactive
    Chris Johnson
    @user_83937

    I think this is a fine post and a wonderful discussion.  I only quibble with the phrase, “Manchurian Candidate”.  I suggest it should be plural.

    My dad was something, of some sort.  It does not really matter what.  What does matter is that, as a young marine biologist in the early 1980s, stationed aboard Soviet vessels, they knew whom I was, once removed.

    Being transferred from one ship to another off the Pribiloffs, I was hanging in a basket with some guy that just showed up and then the cables stopped whirring and we swung.  Previously, we had chatted in Russian, then this guy looked me in the eye and waved his arm towards Alaska, then informed me in perfect English, he was coming to get that back.

    My fellow marine biologists are mostly of the far left, but I have lived and worked with some of the worst people in the world, and he was fairly tame compared to some.  In the real world, we have enemies that are IN our universities, and not studied in our universities.

    Why is this remotely relevant?  Because we do not have a Manchurian Candidate, in this election.  It is relevant because every election, we have as many possible compromised candidates running for every office, as our enemies can possibly support.  And they run the gamut.

    Obviously, the Democratic Party nominee that signed off on the divestiture of our Uranium assets to Putin is an issue, but there is far more.  Begin rant.

    • #48
  19. Pops the LDO Member
    Pops the LDO
    @Sailor1986

    While it’s difficult to credit subtlety to the Trump campaign, his seemingly random outburst re NATO could encourage clarity in a way we all would welcome.  His shot across the bow, if that is what it was, could lead to self-reflection on the part of our deadbeat allies and ultimately greater defense spending on their part.  My back of the envelope calculation, based on data from nato.int no less, is that our European allies need to collectively spend an additional $90,000,000,000 per year just to meet their 2%-of-GDP obligation.  While we should in fact honor our treaty obligations, we have let them slide long enough.  Western Europe is relatively stable and quite wealthy and I doubt our cousins will lightly abandon America’s umbrella this stormy season.

    • #49
  20. Chris Johnson Inactive
    Chris Johnson
    @user_83937

    I have given up the practice of marine biology, (so if anybody is interested in Florida real estate, please holler!), because the profession has become some form of advocacy, and not for the data.

    I have worked for our friends in the Middle East, whom are not our friends.  That is why I cringed when GW brought the Muslim Brotherhood into our government.

    Truth is, most of you didn’t do that.  Our enemies never sleep, never tire, never stop, never have jobs they need to attend to.  Actually, many of the faces our enemies show, only have the job of showing up to protests.

    I get it.  We are busy.  Until you quit your jobs and refuse to participate in the downfall of America, actively, by working for entities that are not pristine, we are all complicit.

    Is Trump bought and paid for?  Yes.  Is Hillary?  Yes.  Is the company you work for going along, to get along?  Do they promote the Global Warming agenda, funded by the Saudis and Russians?  Please think on that, before you answer.  Does your company promote the United Way?  You may want to look into them.

    When I was a young man, perhaps I should have reacted to the SOB that told me he was coming.  Seeing what they have done, I should have made him swim.  I didn’t.  My parents raised me in a world where America was strong enough for me to ignore that…not nice guy.

    • #50
  21. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    It strikes me as entirely plausible that Putin would help Trump just now. That does not necessarily mean that Putin absolutely prefers Trump, or that he will continue to help Trump. It means he’s playing to show what he can do.

    If he is indeed playing this game, isn’t it probable enough that he has blackmail on both these candidates, and will use it at any time and in any way it happens to suit him, including for the general purpose of sowing chaos?

    It seems to me that there may be three other uncomfortable but important questions:

    1) At what point, once one or the other of these candidates takes office, does this become sufficiently clear as to merit impeachment?

    2) Does he also have influence we don’t know yet on any Members of Congress?

    3) What about Tim Kaine and Mike Pence?

    • #51
  22. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Dave Sussman: If Putin had such intentions, who would he prefer to have in the WH? If the narrative above is correct, I would assume he would want someone who he believes he has leverage over.

    Given the Russian money-Clinton Foundation connections I saw described in Clinton Cash, I have to wonder if Putin is hedging his bets and, like a good arbitrageur, he will win either way.

    I really hate the idea of Putin laughing at us.

    • #52
  23. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    I wish I hadn’t read this at bedtime.

    • #53
  24. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @

    DocJay:

    Man With the Axe:Will these nevertrumpers ever give up? Who cares if he’s a Russian puppet. Who cares about the Balkans and Ukraine. Who cares about his tax returns. At least he’s not Hillary.

    Vote Trump for President!

    I care and I’ll support his impeachment if it’s merited.

    The election is months off, Trump has no criminal past like the She-Devil, and you are already talking about impeaching him?  We should have so vigorously fought back against Obama [redacted]!  Do you hear yourself?

    • #54
  25. Trinity Waters Member
    Trinity Waters
    @

    RightAngles:I wish I hadn’t read this at bedtime.

    Yeah, it gives me the willies.

    Why are so many dedicated to tanking our only hope to avoid empowering the manifestation of Satan more commonly known as Hillary?  The typical GOP circular firing squad is very active.  Maybe that’s because the party’s malfeasance is exposed.   I hope that the sense of moral and intellectual superiority the squad exhibits will keep them warm over the coming long winter.  I for one am tired to death of reading all this crap.  Thankfully, we are headed out for another vacation respite, and when we reenter the maelstrom, maybe cooler, more patriotic, and more rational heads will have prevailed.  But I doubt it.

    • #55
  26. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Dan Hanson: And even if he is acting totally on his own ideas, Trump is certainly vulnerable to extortion if his businesses have as much Russian money in them as TPM suggests. This should make it mandatory that Trump release his tax returns NOW. Everyone should be calling for that, because having a President whose personal empire depends on financing by America’s enemies is an incredibly dangerous thing.

    And this is the quandry. We may never see the returns. There are many who would say ‘so what’. Anyone but Hillary. I feel that too. But, if this thing has legs, and once the conventions over, expect to hear more about it, Trump will have to answer to these questions.

    • #56
  27. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Trinity Waters:

    RightAngles:I wish I hadn’t read this at bedtime.

    Yeah, it gives me the willies.

    Why are so many dedicated to tanking our only hope to avoid empowering the manifestation of Satan more commonly known as Hillary? The typical GOP circular firing squad is very active. Maybe that’s because the party’s malfeasance is exposed. I hope that the sense of moral and intellectual superiority the squad exhibits will keep them warm over the coming long winter. I for one am tired to death of reading all this crap. Thankfully, we are headed out for another vacation respite, and when we reenter the maelstrom, maybe cooler, more patriotic, and more rational heads will have prevailed. But I doubt it.

    @trinitywaters, since I bought this up, I will answer you directly. I do not want to see Hillary win anymore than you do. But instead of looking at raising these issues akin to a ‘firing squad’, those on our side who voice concern about this may cause Trump to answer these allegations head on. His NATO statements must be qualified in light of these financial dealings.

    If his own party stick their heads in the sand and hope the storm passes, we can be assured of a Clinton victory.

    • #57
  28. N.M. Wiedemer Inactive
    N.M. Wiedemer
    @NMWiedemer

    Thanks Dave for putting this together! I was wanting to do a similar post all day and just couldn’t manage it.

    It’s very unsettling and unacceptable that both candidates for president are so dangerously compromised by Putin’s Russia and it’s oligarchy. One related note (though certainly not as serious) initially much of Trump’s most vocal online support came from Russian troll accounts set up several years in advance.

    On the other side, notice the Hillary leaks aren’t really that dangerous to her? Bad optics, but you’d expect something worse if they really wanted to take her out. Is Russia holding on to the really juicy stuff and the DNC leaks are just the proverbial toe sent as a warning to stay in line lest the rest of the body show up?

    I can see Putin using leverage on both candidates in different ways; pretend to be best buddies with the pathologically insecure orange oaf and tame the old shrew with a firm dominating hand.

    • #58
  29. Dave Sussman Member
    Dave Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Mark:For what it’s worth, here is an article critiquing the memo quoted in the OP. I think there are rational reasons for Putin to support Trump or Hillary and that if he does indeed have Hillary’s state department emails due to her criminal negligence he may really be in an influential position no matter who he ultimately prefers.

    Fact Checking That “Trump & Putin” Things

    @mark thank you for sharing this. I was hoping this would alleviate my concerns. I read it 2 times and neither time did I feel there was an iron clad debunking of the T.P.M. article. In some cases Carr’s counter was nebulous. According to Carr 4 of 7 issue are still mostly or completely true.

    • #59
  30. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    What an absurd, spirochetal post.

    Let’s look instead at Trump being a stalking horse for Hillary, shall we?  Didn’t he spend an hour with her husband just before announcing his candidacy?  Hasn’t he consistently run a soft ball campaign?  Isn’t that proof positive?

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.