Jeb! on Trump and Clinton: “I Can’t Vote for Either One of Them”

 

Jeb Bush was interviewed by former GOP strategist Nicolle Wallace about his decision in November. And it appears he is both #NeverTrump and #NeverHillary.

“I’ve watched history unfold with kind of a front row seat,” said the former candidate, still smarting from his disastrous primary campaign. “The simple fact is there’s a threshold past which anybody who steps in the Oval Office must go past. And I don’t think either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump go past that threshold.”

“If you believe like I do that the Presidency is sacred ground and you want a President who upholds the Constitution — and I don’t think either of the candidates fulfill that primary kind of objective — then I can’t vote for either one of them.”

He gave a nod to the Libertarian ticket of Gov. Gary Johnson and Gov. William Weld, but fell far short of endorsing the third-party candidates. You can watch the interview here.

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  1. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    In the Monty Python video in Comment #3,  Jeb is the twit who runs himself over with his own car, proving that a stick shift in the hand is worth two in the Bush.

    • #31
  2. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    I had a nice lunch with a man who shares a board with one of Jeb’s key men.  The man outlined his strategy to him in connect the dot fashion that led Jeb to the white house.  That strategy included picking off those most ideologically similar to Jeb so he would be the only sane one left standing.

    So it’s not some odd theory but rather the product of Jeb, a man who would lose worse than Trump (yes I mean that too) , and his monied donors.  The  only problems with Jebs strategy are that the entire GOPe misread the tone of the country and that Jeb was a certain loser anyway  because of his name.

    • #32
  3. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Written moments ago on the Member Feed on my post on this same subject in response to someone claiming that Jeb never had a chance and why were some of us so vehemently against him…

    Jeb was the embodiment of what was wrong with the GOP. And Jeb’s money and connections scared away Jindal, Perry and Walker. This was confirmed once we saw what the Jeb campaign did in actuality to Marco Rubio. Those guys aren’t stupid. Neither are most of the Trump supporters for recognizing who and what Jeb represented. The plan was predictable and transparent; fight everyone in his lane for the mainstream Republican primary voters and have a showdown with whomever remained, be it Cruz, Paul or some other outlier, and force people like Mendel and all the now-nevertrumper-types into reluctantly going along with Jeb. Beyond that, these people deluded themselves into thinking they could beat Hillary. Political geniuses…not.

    Trump supporters did know that Jeb had zero chance of beating Hillary. They wondered, Why does Jeb run, and why has he gotten so much money, and why aren’t the smart people on “our side” not screaming bloody murder over this?

    That is the sentiment you are interpreting as inflating him as a “boogeyman”.

    • #33
  4. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Jeb represented the polarity that existed and people ran away from him in droves into the arms of Trump – the opposite of Jeb.  Let’s not forget that Romney was thinking about running again too, and those who are now pining away for Mitt should keep in mind that Jeb muscled him out early. Clash of the beta males.

    I, for one, questioned the purpose of Jeb seeking the Presidency. Weren’t there other competent ideologically similar candidates who already declared? If Jeb were to somehow get the nomination, wouldn’t that place an undue and unnecessary burden on traditional Republican voters for the 2016 race? And was this an acceptable risk for his early supporters and donors? Apparently, they either had a deluded belief that he could beat Hillary easily, or they didn’t much care who won, as long as it was one of those two. Once you looked at who their donors were, more was revealed.

    Alarming many of us was the similarity of Jeb to Mitt and we had already lost with Mitt, not forgetting that Jeb, with the dynasty baggage, was an even worse version.

    Now, this guy who tried to claim his last name is some coincidence, as though he has more in common with NFL great Reggie Bush than his father and brother, is once again following the family tradition of breaking public promises.

    Further, he’s giving an interview to the network that daily worked to undermine the Iraq war.

    • #34
  5. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:… And Jeb’s money and connections scared away Jindal, Perry and Walker. This was confirmed once we saw what the Jeb campaign did in actuality to Marco Rubio. Those guys aren’t stupid. Neither are most of the Trump supporters for recognizing who and what Jeb represented….

    Jindal and Perry weren’t scared away; they could never get passed the kids’ table debates and get some airtime in the main events.  Walker actually leap-frogged Jeb! before Trump got in as I recall, but he couldn’t get traction among the donor class and ran out of money.  Rubio took the brunt of the Bush attack and Marco outlasted him.

    I understand the degree to which people don’t like Jeb! (I think Gilmore edged in between him and Trump at the bottom of my list of preferred candidates), but I think he is being given an oversized impact in some of these comments.

    The simple fact is that Trump surged ahead and left all the others in the low doubt digits at best.  There are a lot of reasons for this.  There were some key issues like immigration and trade that registered well (although he was all over the place when pressed for details), but he is singularly the most unprepared and disinterested candidate I have ever seen run for any public office anywhere.  He appealed to many just through his pugnacious, non-PC style.  And I do believe there are many who were attracted to Trump out of sheer celebrity and who simply did not care what his positions are.

    If Trump is going to be a disaster for the GOP (and count me down as one who very much thinks so), it wasn’t because Republicans weren’t given choices or because Jeb! was so sinister.  Jeb! didn’t run any better than the other candidates trying to get traction.  I sat through all but one of those wretched debates and almost all of them were focused on what Trump said about such-and-such or about who.  During the time when candidates were trying to introduce themselves to voters, the media constantly bombarded them with questions about their reactions to the latest Trumpism.  Jeb! had nothing to do with causing that.  That’s what the media pitched to a willing audience and what a willing audience of Republican voters wanted.

    I don’t want to carry water for Jeb!, but I don’t think he should be made a scapegoat for this train wreck.

    • #35
  6. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL:

    Franco:… And Jeb’s money and connections scared away Jindal, Perry and Walker. This was confirmed once we saw what the Jeb campaign did in actuality to Marco Rubio.

    Jindal and Perry weren’t scared away; they could never get passed the kids’ table debates and get some airtime in the main events. Walker actually leap-frogged Jeb! before Trump got in as I recall, but he couldn’t get traction among the donor class and ran out of money. Rubio took the brunt of the Bush attack and Marco outlasted him.

    I think you aren’t looking at the big picture. When a guy like Jeb with his connections and already having sucked-up $100 million from the donor pool, this sentences you to the “kids table” which is a self-fulfilling game. And the kid’s table is an invention of the media anyway. When they see Jeb with 100 million and family connections, along with his other bona fides, he was still ‘somebody’ when they were nobody’s. They decided to get out with that as a strong factor. We don’t know what would have happened absent Jeb in the race, but I believe it would have been vastly different. The money would have lined up with other candidates and different candidates would have started out at different pole positions.

    Trump’s first target was Jeb, and he was lucky in the order.

    • #36
  7. Nick Stuart Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    @NickStuart

    Jeb! treating his commitment to support the nominee just like he would have treated any promise he made to get elected.

    Jeb! can’t vote for either Trump or Clinton? Jeb! couldn’t beat either of them either.

    Just shut the [expletive] up and scuttle into your richly deserved obscurity.

    • #37
  8. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:

    … When they see Jeb with 100 million and family connections, along with his other bona fides, he was still ‘somebody’ when they were nobody’s. They decided to get out with that as a strong factor. We don’t know what would have happened absent Jeb in the race, but I believe it would have been vastly different. The money would have lined up with other candidates and different candidates would have started out at different pole positions.

    Trump’s first target was Jeb, and he was lucky in the order.

    I don’t buy it.  The outcome would have been the same.  Okay, Jeb! pulled in $170M from the donor class; Cruz pulled in over $150M and still lost to Trump who has collected less than $70M.

    Scott Walker led Jeb Bush throughout the spring and into the summer of 2015 in the Iowa Polls, with Jeb barely breaking 10% after May.  Walker had parity with the lead when Trump got it, and then he plummeted.  Walker was part of the DC GOPe?  Walker was intimidated by Bush (who raised 20X what Walker collected)?  The same is true in New Hampshire, except there Bush was leading Walker until Trump going in, and then Bush plummeted.  I think the anti-GOP “establishment” voter fixated on the shiny bauble with the orange hair, and then going forward the tone of the race was between “establishment” (divided among a dozen candidates) and “anti-establishment” (Trump, Cruz, Carson, but oddly not Fiorina).  I think the venom between those two tracks has more to explain the outcome of this nomination process than anything Jeb! did on his own.

    Jeb’s not our cup of tea; he was running as a 1990s Republican in the age of Obama.  The Bush family still has clout among donors, in part because they are last set of Republicans who could figure out how to win the White House.  But no one saw him as the “Establishment” dragon slayer and he didn’t influence those outcomes.  It’s just not in the polling numbers.

    • #38
  9. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Ricochet Editors' Desk: GOP strategist Nicolle Wallace

    Owner of the Domain Name “Lose with Cruz” 

    …is an American author and political commentator. She served as communications chief during the presidency of George W. Bush and in his 2004 re-election campaign. In 2008, Wallace also served as a senior advisor for the McCain–Palin campaign. She was a co-host of The View talk show and is a frequent contributor and guest host on MSNBC‘sMorning Joe, and is a contributor on NBC‘s Today Show.

    In 1999, she moved to Florida to serve as Governor Jeb Bush‘s press secretary, and then became the Communications Director for the Florida State Technology Office in 2000.[3]

    Wallace has stated she did not vote for a presidential candidate in 2008 because Sarah Palin gave her pause.[14]

    Wallace is close friends with Katie Couric and CNN’s Dana Bash.[37][38]

    _______________________________________________________________

    Who uses who?

    • #39
  10. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL: I don’t buy it.

    You don’t have to.

    But until legacy Republicans,that is, those who are clam-happy with Mitt Romney, John McCain, Chris Christie’s, the ones who may not support Jeb himself, but hold no level of alarm at his candidacy, recognize that voters want something other than what they were offering, they will never win. Also they must find it within themselves to fight.

    But generally, they continue to beclown themselves and project everything onto Trump as their defense mechanism.

    • #40
  11. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:

    MSJL: I don’t buy it.

    You don’t have to.

    But until legacy Republicans,that is, those who are clam-happy with Mitt Romney, John McCain, Chris Christie’s, the ones who may not support Jeb himself, but hold no level of alarm at his candidacy, recognize that voters want something other than what they were offering, they will never win. Also they must find it within themselves to fight.

    But generally, they continue to beclown themselves and project everything onto Trump as their defense mechanism.

    Chris Christie ran against Bush, so he was not comfortable with the idea and did recognize that voters wanted something other than what Bush was offering.  As a matter of fact, I think he may even be getting chummy with the Trump campaign the last I saw.

    Both Romney and McCain (who I do not like and thought was a terrible candidate) would have been infinitely better than Obama.  Romney was belittled for accurately predicting every foreign policy challenge that has emerged since January 2017.

    I heard many Republican wail that they would not vote for either “establishment” Romney or McCain because they were not “real” conservatives, but now we are supposed to believe that “non-establishment” Donald Trump meets the definition of a conservative that we all have to hold our noses to vote for.

    No one is projecting anything on Trump.  He is what he is.  He’s a terrible candidate in his own right.  He has no organization.  He has no money in the bank.  He is not self funding (like he said he would).  He trails Hilary in every battle ground state except Georgia.  He’s got the highest unfavorables in the history of polling.  He will probably lose the election in an electoral landslide, taking the Senate with him and guaranteeing another liberal rubber stamp on the Supreme Court (so that there is an unshakeable 5-4 Left wing majority for (at least) the next generation).  And in the same way that the GOP forever lost the black vote in the 1960s, the Hispanic voters will probably identify Trump as representing the true face of Republicans and we’ll never be competitive with those voters ever again.

    I don’t think Jeb! would beat Hilary!, but I think either Rubio, Walker, or Cruz could.  It’s impossible to believe that any of them would be trailing the living fossil train wreck that is Hilary Clinton.  They didn’t get edged out by Jeb!  GOP voters were given lots of options other than Jeb! and he was gone fairly early in the process.

    And to be fair, the reason Trump will leave Cleveland with the nomination is that the so-called “establishment” is honoring its word and sticking to the rules.  The RNC is recognizing the outcome of the primaries, most of the other GOP office holders are giving their support.  Trump is giving them headaches in return, but he is getting the Party’s support.

    • #41
  12. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL

    Your post is too long for me to address in full. I have hashed out all this before with others. I partially agree with some aspects and disagree with others.

    The issue I’m addressing isn’t about whether Trump is a good candidate or campaigner. I do however think he can win and disagree with your assessments  – not of his campaign – but of the underlying dynamics in this race.

    Some of your comment reflects the CW of mainstream GOPers. The Hispanic fears are a huge tip-off for me. GOP will never win anything important by pandering me-too isms politics.

    And too much is conflated in that comment.

    MSJL: I heard many Republican wail that they would not vote for either “establishment” Romney or McCain because they were not “real” conservatives, but now we are supposed to believe that “non-establishment” Donald Trump meets the definition of a conservative that we all have to hold our noses to vote for.

    That’s all over. The establishment left the door open and an intruder walked in. They could block conservatives, they could help mainstream types, but they forgot that GOP voters had certain issues – or they just dismissed them outright.The trouble for us all is, the intruder is still better than Hillary. For one thing, he is basically, intuitively on ‘our’ side. Ideological outliers do not, in this case, negate that.

    I wanted Cruz, but absent Trump, he would have been eliminated earlier.

    • #42
  13. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL: No one is projecting anything on Trump. He is what he is.

    I’m saying that some are using Trump being a horrific candidate, to focus on instead of analyzing how and why Trump emerged as a defense mechanism. They write as though this was a fluke, when anyone who paid attention to politics could see they were out on a limb, expecting their bi-polar model to work once again, patting voters on the head telling them they didn’t understand, leave all these things to us. It became absurd. They were – and still are -the last ones to know. And some of us suspected elements of the establishment didn’t even care to win at all.

    Now, what are (you) going to do about it?

    Stay home? Vote for Hillary? Third Party? Pull a fast one at the convention?

    Will America and the GOP ultimately be better off with 4-8 years of Hillary or 48 years of Trump?

    Trump is my answer. He isn’t my ideal, or even close. But I’m going to vote for him.

    • #43
  14. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    They were actually afraid of a strong third party challenger, which is why they had a Fox News crony submit the pledge question. That was designed to force Trump into or out of the party. Inside, they thought they could deal with him. Eliminate him. Outside they could isolate him before he caught on. But they were rightly threatened. They aren’t totally clueless.

    They knew they were trying to finesse the hand. Once enough of these candidates were eliminated, it would  be hold your noses again conservatives time.

    So why didn’t Jeb raise his hand and say “If Donald Trump is the nominee, I won’t support him”?

    Because Jeb is the Fredo of the Bush family.

    • #44
  15. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco: Some of your comment reflects the CW of mainstream GOPers. The Hispanic fears are a huge tip-off for me. GOP will never win anything important by pandering me-too isms politics.

    My observation is based on the fact that there is no indication of a hidden phalanx of voters that is laying in wait to leap to the polls and elect Trump in November.  The polls show him trailing just about everywhere he needs to win and lacking cross over appeal with independant voters he needs to win a majority.  In the 2012 election we told ourselves that the polls were lying to us but they were spot on and I have no reason to think that these polls are fundamentally inaccurate.  Elections are about winning, and winning means numbers.  When I get some indication that Trump can deliver the numbers in a general election, then I might be more confident in his abilities.

    I do think he’s a fluke.  I think the current temper is due to a number of factors (Obama, the reaction (or lack) to Obama, currenct economics, etc.) unique to this time.  In 2004 we were told of a permanent conservative majority.  In 2008 we were told the GOP would dissipate to a rump regional party in a permanent progressive majority.  Now you are saying that Trump is going to lead us to the sunny highlands of a 48-year new age a la Trump University.

    If Bush had any idea that Trump was going to behave the way he did and make the insinuations and insults about his father and brother, then I would wager Jeb would have added that caveat.

    And I wager if Cruz had any idea that Trump was going to insinuate that Cruz’ father was involved with Lee Harvey Oswald, he might have also paused before making that commitment.

    If either gave that as a reason, when I would excuse them backing off that promise.  I would not hold myself to an open-ended promise of support to someone who engaged in that level of personal animus towards me and my family.

    If the parties nominate Trump and Clinton, and my alternative option is a political party whose strategy for getting the government out of our lives is to qualify for matching funding and whose foreign policy debate is whether the US was justified in getting into World War II, then I fully expect to skip the Presidential ballot and go down ticket to salvage what I can.

    • #45
  16. Mister D Inactive
    Mister D
    @MisterD

    Mendel:The most cohesive argument is that by sucking up so much donor money and airtime at the beginning of the campaign, Jeb strangulated the campaigns of Walker, Perry, Jindal, Paul, etc….Sure, Jeb hoovered up money which might have otherwise gone to Walker*, but Trump had even less money and still won.

    And if Walker* was so insecure of himself that he felt the need to drop out months before even a single vote was cast, there’s no way he would have had the temerity to survive the Trump meat grinder once the race got going – regardless of Jeb’s presence.

    Trump and Jeb! benefitted from name recognition that gave them early poll boosts. Jeb spent a fortune attacking Rubio, and no one thought Trump was serious enough to attack. Terrible, terrible strategery there. Serious candidates piled on each other while Trump zoomed up the HOV lane.

    Walker mismanaged his campaign funds. Big argument against, but he might have had more if not for Jeb!.

    As for Trump’s money, he capitalized on free media, estimated to be worth more than $2b, well more than what all the other candidates got combined.

    • #46
  17. Josh Farnsworth Member
    Josh Farnsworth
    @

    Franco: The trouble for us all is, the intruder is still better than Hillary.

    In what way will Trump be better?

    • #47
  18. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Walker didn’t just mismanage his campaign funds, he trusted the GOPe who sent in their experts.   Those experts set up a pricey infrastructure and also told Scott to go with the Bush idea on immigration cuz that was the winning idea.

    Done in by his own trust of the GOPe.

    • #48
  19. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Jeb lost because he was on the wrong side of a rising tide of nationalism in reaction to a failed, deracinated globalism. Money and “lanes” had nothing to do with the outcome. It was all issues.

    Jeb shouldn’t feel bad because, other than Rick Santorum, everybody in the “strongest Republican primary field in decades” was on the wrong side with him. One by one, however, all of them were revealed to be not actually human beings, but Potemkin politicians, sock-puppets spewing programed 25-second speeches of optimistic platitudes for the conservative base, words which were written and approved by the sock-puppets’ unseen donors, the men and women with other agendas.

    From June, 2015 all the way through the primaries nationalists watched in bemusement as an amateur spanked the professionals. As Trump attracted huge crowds and media attention – because millions tuned in to watch and listen to him whenever he was on – my friends and I kept wondering when one or two of the other candidates was going to see the obvious and seize Trump’s nationalist mantle for themselves. But none really did. They simply plotted. (See comments above)

    The globalists who view individuals as interchangeable economic units, commodities no better than coffee beans or silicon chips, and who see nations as arbitrary administrative regions, insist on continuing their ruinous policies. But their failures have bred revolt. The old political coalitions are in flux.

    “In this present crisis globalism is not the solution; globalism is the problem.”

    • #49
  20. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Freesmith:

    Jeb shouldn’t feel bad because, other than Rick Santorum, everybody in the “strongest Republican primary field in decades” was on the wrong side with him. One by one, however, all of them were revealed to be not actually human beings, but Potemkin politicians, sock-puppets spewing programed 25-second speeches of optimistic platitudes for the conservative base, words which were written and approved by the sock-puppets’ unseen donors, the men and women with other agendas.

    For example, there was light between Cruz and Trump on what issue?  As far as I could tell, the only substantive difference was that Cruz was capable of forming sentences.  This is an important point; this wonderous nationalism of which you speak needs more than just emoting; it’s needs solutions.  Otherwise it is going to crash and burn.

    From June, 2015 all the way through the primaries nationalists watched in bemusement as an amateur spanked the professionals. As Trump attracted huge crowds and media attention – because millions tuned in to watch and listen to him whenever he was on – my friends and I kept wondering when one or two of the other candidates was going to see the obvious and seize Trump’s nationalist mantle for themselves. But none really did. They simply plotted. (See comments above)

    The globalists who view individuals as interchangeable economic units, commodities no better than coffee beans or silicon chips, and who see nations as arbitrary administrative regions, insist on continuing their ruinous policies. But their failures have bred revolt. The old political coalitions are in flux.

    As far as I can tell, Bernie Sanders just endorsed Hilary Clinton with the Democrat coalition coalescing around the presumptive nominee.  The other side doesn’t look like it’s in flux.

    “In this present crisis globalism is not the solution; globalism is the problem.”

    But Reagan had a plan.

    • #50
  21. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    DocJay:Walker didn’t just mismanage his campaign funds, he trusted the GOPe who sent in their experts. Those experts set up a pricey infrastructure and also told Scott to go with the Bush idea on immigration cuz that was the winning idea.

    Done in by his own trust of the GOPe.

    Bush was pretty much an open-borders type from the beginning.  Wasn’t it the Christian thing to do?

    Walker wanted to secure the border straight off and was willing to hold off on a solution for those already in the country until that was accomplished.  Not the same position, and given that I don’t think Trump has made a decision on mass deportation I don’t think too much at odds with him either.

    In fact if the GOPe position was open borders, I think only Bush (maybe Gilmore?) was onboard with that.  Pretty much all the rest were very clear that they wanted the border secured first.  They differed on an approach of what to do with the illegals presently here.

    • #51
  22. Hank Rearden Inactive
    Hank Rearden
    @HankRearden

    Shows how utterly – utterly – unqualified Jeb! was for the presidency. The country is in the fight of its life. We have a warrior in Trump who can – IMO who will – prevail. Jeb! can’t even decide which side to pick.

    This is why the self-described, self-congratulatory “conservatives” aren’t worth a bucket of warm “spit” in the immortal words of John Nance Garner.

    • #52
  23. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    MSJL, Walker  flip flopped at a time  when strength of leadership was wanting.  He could have easily been our president.  That’s my opinion though.

    Opens borders is national suicide not faith.

    • #53
  24. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Jeb was a great governor of Florida that freed us from an incredibly corrupt Democrat political machine. The Democrats in Florida still have not recovered from the only time they beat Bush through illegal means.

    However Jeb never should have run for President and his decision to go after Marco Rubio hard so that he, Bush, would face Trump one on one in the Primary has to go down as one of the most foolish political decisions since the 30 or 40 years.

    Yet in this one area he is right.  Hillary nor Trump is worthy of being President.  Both will deeply damage our Republic.

    • #54
  25. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    DocJay:


    MSJL, Walker flip flopped at a time when strength of leadership was wanting. He could have easily been our president. That’s my opinion though.

    Opens borders is national suicide not faith.

    Other than the ability to strike an emotional chord, I could never see how Trump’s evolution on immigration was in anyway different or superior to any of the other candidates.  I recall, Trump has supported everything from allowing current illegal immigrants to remain to giving them head of the line privileges for coming back after deportation.

    Open borders may be national suicide, but so is a half-trillion structural deficit with $18 trillion of debt, and no plan to fix it.

    Unrestrained entitlement spending and a steadfast refusal to reform any of them is also on the path to national suicide.

    Being in the middle of a world in chaos and basing national security decisions on that last kind word from a dictator puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Instructing the military to commit war crimes and besmirch their honor and flag and undermine the core of their professionalism puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Threatening trade wars may not be on the path to national suicide, but it guarantees we are impoverished by the time we get there.

    Having no plan to reduce the regulatory state that has us in a current state of national stagnation puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Having a President who doesn’t a clue that there isn’t a twelfth article to the Constitution (or much of anything else about the Constitution) puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Having a chief executive with no respect for the rule of law puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Having a President whose understanding of the nuclear triad is limited to the fact that nuclear power is very important puts us on the path to national suicide.

    Having a man as President who is so completely disinterested in even a superficial understanding of the nuclear triad (or pretty much anything else regarding governance) puts us on the path to national suicide.

    I happen to be one of those people who believes that this country is at a tipping point and I fear that I will see America continue a systematic decline for the rest of my life.  I get it that there are a lot of people really angry about immigration.  I am too, but I am also really angry about the rest of this stuff.  And I would like something more than an emotional reaction.  Don’t tell me people are responding to “issues” – I watched all those debates and Trump rambled and spewed nonsense for 12+ hours.

    I would really like some confirmation that November 8, 2016 will not mark the end of the Ameican Century, but the only thing anyone seems willing to offer me is a wall paid for by Mexico.

    • #55
  26. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    Hank Rearden:Shows how utterly – utterly – unqualified Jeb! was for the presidency. The country is in the fight of its life. We have a warrior in Trump who can – IMO who will – prevail. Jeb! can’t even decide which side to pick.

    This is why the self-described, self-congratulatory “conservatives” aren’t worth a bucket of warm “spit” in the immortal words of John Nance Garner.

    It would more honest to write: We have a warrior in Trump who knows how to throw insults.  On stage he will insult Hillary like no one ever has before!  I would pay to see that!

    As for “fighting” Trump would have to show some competence in campaigning and trying to hurt Hillary.  So far Trump has made little to no effort in that.

    As for Jeb picking a side, he has picked one it is the Republic.  If both Republicans and Democrats are unworthy for office then he should say so and if events prove him right then we will be in a better position for having told the truth instead of asserting Tribal loyalties.

    • #56
  27. Brian Wolf Inactive
    Brian Wolf
    @BrianWolf

    MSJL:Bush was pretty much an open-borders type from the beginning. Wasn’t it the Christian thing to do?

    Walker wanted to secure the border straight off and was willing to hold off on a solution for those already in the country until that was accomplished. Not the same position, and given that I don’t think Trump has made a decision on mass deportation I don’t think too much at odds with him either.

    In fact if the GOPe position was open borders, I think only Bush (maybe Gilmore?) was onboard with that.

    Bush and Walker wanted to secure the border completely or as completely as we could.  E-verify for all businesses would have been the real key to that, since visa over stays account for half of our illegal immigrants who flew here.

    Bush had little credibility on that since his family was part of the non-enforcement regime we have had in place since the 80s.  Walker had more cred on that.

    No Republican I know of wanted open borders that is mainly a fringe libertarian position.  Many Republicans want more legal immigration especially for tech jobs and that has its own problems but it would limit the flow of illegals on our southern border and have less cultural impact, the real harm of mass immigration, then the over flow on the southern border.

    • #57
  28. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL: My observation is based on the fact that there is no indication of a hidden phalanx of voters that is laying in wait to leap to the polls and elect Trump in November. The polls show him trailing just about everywhere he needs to win and lacking cross over appeal with independant voters he needs to win a majority. In the 2012 election we told ourselves that the polls were lying to us but they were spot on and I have no reason to think that these polls are fundamentally inaccurate.

    This could be said of McCain or Romney who were playing the game according to the template. I hold no special position on Trump’s campaign abilities, as I’ve said. And this scenario could also be the case if Cruz or Rubio got the nomination – we simply don’t know.

    MSJL: I do think he’s a fluke. I think the current temper is due to a number of factors (Obama, the reaction (or lack) to Obama, currenct economics, etc.) unique to this time.

    “He” may be a fluke, but the sentiment that allowed him to catch on isn’t. That’s my point. If you deny that, then I would have to simply turn my attention elsewhere.

    • #58
  29. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL:If Bush had any idea that Trump was going to behave the way he did and make the insinuations and insults about his father and brother, then I would wager Jeb would have added that caveat.

    …..

    If either gave that as a reason, when I would excuse them backing off that promise. I would not hold myself to an open-ended promise of support to someone who engaged in that level of personal animus towards me and my family.

    Ha! He just said that stuff. It’s meaningless! Trump knows the media will make a big deal out of those statements because the media is absolutely horrific. They don’t care about lies and truth, they care about attention and money. Who believed Cruz’s father was part of the JFK assassination team? It’s absurd. And notice no one blames the media for being indifferent to lies and half-truths. Unfortunately, we are beyond that.

    What Trump said about Bush is what they, the Bushes, allowed to become the dominant narrative. Now, after Obama has scuttled anything positive to come out of that conflict, it does no harm to jettison the attachment to the efficacy of the Iraq War. That Jeb! had the gall to run as the third member of an immediate family to become the third GOP President in-a-row(!) invited that charge, and I welcome now disassociation from all things Bush.

    • #59
  30. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    The Bushes send soldiers to fight. Then they play footsie with the media, the media that trashes them and everything they do. The media that deliberately spouts propaganda to undermine their war(s). That they don’t fight. They shrug. They say, it’s just politics. I suppose they are above politics – except when they are not. Except when there are other Republicans to fight.

    Trump kicks the WaPo off the plane for a lot less. Jeb goes on MSNBC….MSNBC! to grant and exclusive intervie to an associate who worked for his family but couldn’t vote for McCain (even though she worked for his campaign!) because of the VP pick.

    With friends like these…

    • #60
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