The New Rules of Democracy: There Are No Rules Just Give Me What I Want

 
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Affluent lefties react to the Brexit vote. The shock. Awwwwww!

Democracy is an ugly thing. Especially for the losers. The people have spoken. The bastards.

I don’t know if they fully appreciate the American football analogy but Britain’s supporters of the European Union are taking the concept of “moving the goalposts” to new heights.

Even before the vote, left wingers in the media were emphasizing that the referendum had no legally binding result. As far as they’re concerned Parliament should just ignore it. Barring a no-confidence vote, Parliament doesn’t stand again until 2020. By that time more of those old, racist, uneducated country bumpkins will be dead, right?

(At least one Labour MP, David Lammy of Tottenham has already called on his colleagues to ignore the results. “We can stop the madness!” Of course it also doesn’t bother him in the least that the election that seated the current Parliament had a smaller turnout — 66 percent — than the referendum — 72 percent.)

Seeing as one might need the cover of a popular vote in the future, Remainers went to Parliament’s online petition site to demand a second go-around — only with the rules rigged in their favor.

Petition

If I get my way 50 percent + 1 is totally legitimate. To get your way you need a super majority. Oh, and since we lost with a 72 percent turnout you’re gonna have to get at least 75 percent.

And then there is the whining about the demographics of the vote. One person, one vote is just wrong, man. From the Twitter feed of Channel 4 anchor, Jon Snow:

Suddenly, it is illegitimate for older members of a democracy to have an equal voice because “they don’t have to live with the consequences.” The next logical step would be the end of the secret ballot so if you die your vote can be removed from the results.

The aforementioned Mr. Snow knows the real reason the vote resulted as it did. If the UK were just more socialist, he writes on his blog, no one would feel “alienated.” It’s not Europe, it’s austerity. Of course, Mr. Snow doesn’t say how much of his considerable salary he is willing to redistribute to the idiots that voted against him.

Louise Burke

Louise Burke: The Humanity!

But the best reaction of the day comes from The Telegraph’s Louise Burke who went all Leslie Gore on her readers this morning: It’s My Party and I’ll Cry If I Want To!

But this was no ordinary referendum. It will affect so many of us on a profoundly personal level. We have every right to be upset.

(Remainers) are worried about the economy and if they will still have a job, and they are worried if the value of their homes and retirement funds will plunge. They are worried about the growth of flag-waving nationalism and anti-intellectualism and what these things could morph into. (Emphasis mine.)

These concerns are legitimate, scary and personal. And they should not be disregarded or pushed aside.

Ah. See, their concerns are legitimate, not yours. Their concerns are scary, not yours. Their concerns are personal … you just keep your concerns to yourself … you know, uh, personal.

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  1. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Titus Techera:

    BrentB67:

    Man With the Axe:

    EJHill:

    anonymous: …subordinating their national governments to the super-state sprouting in Brussels.

    Brussels sprouts? I see what you did there…

    I knew there was a reason the EU was so distasteful.

    You guys should go on the road with this act.

    ‘Take a hike!’

    You can be the roadie Titus.

    • #61
  2. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    BrentB67:

    Titus Techera:

    BrentB67:

    Man With the Axe:

    EJHill:

    anonymous: …subordinating their national governments to the super-state sprouting in Brussels.

    Brussels sprouts? I see what you did there…

    I knew there was a reason the EU was so distasteful.

    You guys should go on the road with this act.

    ‘Take a hike!’

    You can be the roadie Titus.

    Just so’s I can say, wherever I lay my hat is home!

    • #62
  3. Nick Stuart Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    @NickStuart

    The shock of the Remains. They lost an election and just can’t abide it. Amazingly, they’re calling for a second referendum, a do-over.

    That’s like if the #NeverTrump gang couldn’t stand the results of the primary season and were hatching a plot to juggle the nomination away from him at the convention. I might have seen something about that somewhere.

    • #63
  4. SEnkey Inactive
    SEnkey
    @SEnkey

    Nick Stuart:The shock of the Remains. They lost an election and just can’t abide it. Amazingly, they’re calling for a second referendum, a do-over.

    That’s like if the #NeverTrump gang couldn’t stand the results of the primary season and were hatching a plot to juggle the nomination away from him at the convention. I might have seen something about that somewhere.

    Again, it’s not the same. If we held a referendum today open to Republican Voters on whether Trump should be the nominee and he won 50% to 49.9% and then party members continued to try to eject him, it would be comparable. Such a referendum has not occurred.

    You didn’t speak to this but I think it’s worth noting that most NeverTrumpers aren’t involved in the juggling political process. Far from trying to change the nominee, they have simply concluded to vote for someone else, or to ignore the top of the ticket and vote down ticket. These are the discussion I’ve been involved in for several weeks with dozens of friends. We ask what the best course of action is for us, not on a choosing the nominee level – that is over. But rather, how do we navigate the choices we have left.

    • #64
  5. RightAngles Member
    RightAngles
    @RightAngles

    Herbert:“We will have to leave borders behind and go for global unity when it comes to financial stability.” Who said this in 2013?

    OMG Trump!

    • #65
  6. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    EJHill:

    Roberto: Absolutely nothing hysterical or irrational going on here, no indeed.

    I like the guy who asked about the Canadian visa. If the lack of EU membership is your problem, how is Canada your answer?

    Well, they did just elect a Leftist.

    • #66
  7. wilber forge Inactive
    wilber forge
    @wilberforge

    Fun, fun, fun, until Daddy takes the EU away !

    Could just be there will a quick break or this will end up with a prolonged batlle and a disenfranchised sense in the Public soul if Remain takes the day. Ask yourself, the Leave folks just fold their tents in shame or something else.

    • #67
  8. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    Great post, EJHill!  Lots of whining in the media and on social media. Maybe we can blame the EU for turning once proud people of many nations into entitled whiners?

    • #68
  9. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    EJ,

    You are right on target. The loudest sound we have heard for the last 40 years is the sound of whining yuppies who think they are entitled to the extravagant pay they have received at others expense. Worse than that they think they are entitled to be considered right when they are patently wrong. Like three-year-old children they will throw their tantrum.

    I think mommy and daddy may have finally had it with them and they will get what they deserve. Simply to be ignored as the trivial minds that they actually are.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #69
  10. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    MJBubba:

    EJHill:

    Roberto: Absolutely nothing hysterical or irrational going on here, no indeed.

    I like the guy who asked about the Canadian visa. If the lack of EU membership is your problem, how is Canada your answer?

    Well, they did just elect a Leftist.

    If you like being unarmed and euthanized then we are you r destination of choice.

    • #70
  11. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Titus Techera:

    BrentB67:What great opportunity or benefit are people losing by Britain leaving the EU?

    It depends on how the leaving is negotiated, no? Freedom of movement would seem the likeliest victim.

    Frau Merkel has already indicated she’s for a velvet touch on this. I think she’s the only Big Europe leader that’s really aware that the iron glove approach will backfire, which surprises me a bit, actually, as Germans are the ones that want to lose their national identity the most and drown in “European-ness”. The Belgians, of course, are being snotty, because the Belgian political class are exactly the kind of faceless Euro-drones that want to melt away all individual identity into the collective. That’s basically what Belgium is, and why so many of the French and Dutch want out of the deal and reunion with their mother-tongue peoples. French political leaders want to stick it to Britain, but their own people are probably next to abandon the EU ship. As Claire pointed out, the EU has become even more unpopular in France than it is in Britain. As many as five member nations may vote to leave in the coming years, and the Five-Star guys in Italy now want out of the Euro at the very least. Merkel sees the danger that the other EUnichs don’t yet.

    Contd…

    • #71
  12. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    EJHill: (Remainers) are worried about the economy and if they will still have a job, and they are worried if the value of their homes and retirement funds will plunge.

    If they have government jobs, I hope they have legitimate reasons to worry about whether they will still have a job.  If they are heavily invested in government-guaranteed bailout funds or tax-favored bond issues for building the governments bigger and bigger, I hope they have a legitimate worry about their retirement funds.

    • #72
  13. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    As for what Britain will lose from this…. in the long run (and maybe even in the short run)… nothing. London will not stop being the financial center of Europe. That bluff has been called. The banks aren’t leaving, and admit it. It was all scaremongering. I don’t see anyone else punishing British business if they get the prices and services they want. No one is going to stop buying Rolls Royce turbofans. No one is going to stop licensing ARM semiconductor designs. Hell, they rule the smartphone market across the world. No one is going to stop consuming British film, TV, and music. I fully expect to quickly see a number of trade agreements pop up between Britain and the US, Canada, Australia, Japan, China, etc, and this will certainly put pressure on the Brussels crowd to not tariff British goods or services. Similarly, there’ll be little trouble about Brits working in Europe. They’ll have some more paperwork, but basically, they’ll just have British passports again instead of EU passports. I don’t think much will actually change at all as far as trade, cash flow, and military agreements. Britain just won’t have Brussels lording over them in their domestic affairs anymore. Let’s be honest. The whining about this is because the Brit Left and Millenials are all about losing their British-ness in favor of European-ness. Well, tough. Move to Brussels if that’s what you want. And stay there.

    • #73
  14. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    Reminds me of that line in Clerks where Randall opines “this job would be great if it weren’t for f******customers.”

    • #74
  15. Metalheaddoc Member
    Metalheaddoc
    @Metalheaddoc

    Have seen the usual opinion pieces about how this the the Angry White Male having a tantrum? One thing I have never understood. Why don’t all the unhappy persons of color move to a country where their color is predominant and whitey is the minority? Wouldn’t that be the utopia they desire?

    • #75
  16. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    Metalheaddoc:Have seen the usual opinion pieces about how this the the Angry White Male having a tantrum? One thing I have never understood. Why don’t all the unhappy persons of color move to a country where their color is predominant and whitey is the minority? Wouldn’t that be the utopia they desire?

    Indeed.

    • #76
  17. Herbert Member
    Herbert
    @Herbert

    Metalheaddoc:Have seen the usual opinion pieces about how this the the Angry White Male having a tantrum? One thing I have never understood. Why don’t all the unhappy persons of color move to a country where their color is predominant and whitey is the minority? Wouldn’t that be the utopia they desire?

    more than one way to skin a cat….

    http://www.ibtimes.com/when-will-minorities-become-majority-us-its-already-happening-counties-across-nation-2385884

    It isn’t exactly a secret: White Americans are declining as a percentage of the whole. But, while some predictions say whites are on track to be a minority in the United States in the next 30 years, an analysis released Thursday of census figures found that the non-Hispanic white population has already dropped below 50 percent in hundreds of counties across the nation.

    • #77
  18. PHenry Inactive
    PHenry
    @PHenry

    SEnkey: Again, it’s not the same. If we held a referendum today open to Republican Voters on whether Trump should be the nominee and he won 50% to 49.9% and then party members continued to try to eject him, it would be comparable. Such a referendum has not occurred.

    of course, it isn’t exactly the same.  But the general principle behind any democratic process is that the once the result has been reached according to the rules in place at the start, then all parties agree to accept that decision as the voice of the people.

    After the contest has ended with a clear winner according to the rules, claiming that the majority wasn’t large enough, or that a second vote would not go the same way, is to undermine the underpinning of the democratic process.

    That doesn’t mean the losing side has to adopt the winning sides opinions or position.  But call it honor, or sportsmanship, or just plain civility, being a good faith participant in a democracy includes the requirement that you accept the result when you lose the same as when you win.

    This is just as true for a democratic election that isn’t constitutionally or legally binding.  If we have an election for our home owners association the principles are the same.  To agree to an election is to agree to accept the result of a valid process.

    Anything else is to pervert and dishonor the basic concept of democracy.

    • #78
  19. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Member
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    @Claire

    I haven’t read all the comments here, so forgive me if someone’s already mentioned this. The problem — a real one — is that these referenda have no real constitutional basis in Britain and thus less legitimacy than one would hope. The unwillingness to accept the results was predictable, and crucially, this would have been true no matter who won: Farage was already calling for a second referendum when he thought Remain would win:

    The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

    Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

    So this isn’t really a matter of people being sore losers as much as it is a danger of holding this kind of referendum, for which there’s no real precedent and which was bound to be challenged unless there was an overwhelmingly decisive result.

    I know Ricochet wants to view this outcome optimistically, and it’s surely too soon to be entirely pessimistic about what this means. But the division and acrimony Britain will experience about this — for a very long time — is obvious, and not something to welcome.

    It’s a mistake to assume British politics are analogous to American politics; this vote doesn’t represent a victory of the right over the left as we’d understand it. Conservatives were split, as was Labour. It represents London versus the rest of England and Wales, the north versus the south, and the economically viable versus those who’ve been left behind by modernization and globalization. To expect those who will be punished economically by the outcome to accept it meekly is naive. It would be best for Britain’s social stability for them to accept it, but too many people’s livelihoods, identities, and lifetime’s work have been torched for that to be realistic.

    • #79
  20. Titus Techera Contributor
    Titus Techera
    @TitusTechera

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:But the division and acrimony Britain will experience about this — for a very long time — is obvious, and not something to welcome.

    If you assume that division & acrimony were not there before Brexit–or they were less unwelcome–I can see your point. But otherwise, there is no way around welcoming division & acrimony.

    • #80
  21. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    The division and acrimony were inevitable as soon as Cameron decided to put Brexit up for a vote.  Do you think there would be less if Remain had won a narrow victory?

    • #81
  22. Sandy Member
    Sandy
    @Sandy

    Randy Webster:The division and acrimony were inevitable as soon as Cameron decided to put Brexit up for a vote. Do you think there would be less if Remain had won a narrow victory?

    Surely acrimony and division were there well before that point.

    • #82
  23. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    This might be a snapshot into the future for the US this year – the conventions and nominations / people trying to stick a third candidate in – there will be calls for recounts come November – fraud, do-overs.  I also suspect other European countries will take a wait and see attitude to how Britain does – one British subject on the radio said “the medicine will taste bitter for a few years, we’ve become sick, but after that, we will be well again”.  I’m wondering if there is anyone out there thinking the same for the US?

    • #83
  24. Randy Webster Inactive
    Randy Webster
    @RandyWebster

    Sandy:

    Randy Webster:The division and acrimony were inevitable as soon as Cameron decided to put Brexit up for a vote. Do you think there would be less if Remain had won a narrow victory?

    Surely acrimony and division were there well before that point.

    I’m reminded of those who say we should split up the country while we’re still talking to each other.

    • #84
  25. Hypatia Member
    Hypatia
    @

    I’m reading all this ranting in American newspapers echoing the line that the Brexit vote should be discarded or redone cuz “only” a 72% turnout.

    Turnout  in US elections in 2008 and 2012 was 62% and 57%.  Can we discard those results?  Please?!?

    But, back to Brexit:  it’s likely the ruling class WILL discard this result.  That was done twice with the results of Ireland’s popular vote, at least once with France’s popular vote, and with Britain’s popular vote, by the Treaty of Lisbon.

    There will probably be a second referendum in UK, involving some convoluted question concerning Parliamentary power to ratify EU treaties, upon which few people will vote:  they’ll be under the impression they settled the matter on June 23.  Then they’ll find out their teakettles are banned anyway.

    • #85
  26. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    I’m currently listening to Secondhand Time: The Last of the Soviets by Svetlana Alexievich. It’s a collection of oral history interviews in which people reminiscence about the Soviet days, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, and the 1991 August Putsch in which the communists tried to put the old system back. It’s a reminder of the many ways in which those who benefited from their socio-economic position in the system can want it back. And it’s a reminder that it’s foolish for people to think that they should rest and rejoice in one referendum. Highly recommended reading/listening.

    I also wrote about this tendency to win a battle and declare victory: Conservatives are losing in the same way Native Americans lost.

    Those who think this Brexit victory was sufficient should also think about African-Americans, who supposedly gained their freedom in the American Civil War. The forces that benefited from their slavery kept trying to push them back down, and the changes in the social order are resented by some of them to this day.

    So, I’m sorry, James Gawron, but it is not time to rest.

    • #86
  27. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: So this isn’t really a matter of people being sore losers as much as it is a danger of holding this kind of referendum, for which there’s no real precedent and which was bound to be challenged unless there was an overwhelmingly decisive result.

    Britain became part of the Common Market in 1975 as a result of a referendum. I remember the campaign. So there is precedent.

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: It’s a mistake to assume British politics are analogous to American politics; this vote doesn’t represent a victory of the right over the left as we’d understand it.

    This is very true. The only reason Brexit won was typically Labour voters in the northeast supporting Brexit.

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.: To expect those who will be punished economically by the outcome to accept it meekly is naive. It would be best for Britain’s social stability for them to accept it, but too many people’s livelihoods, identities, and lifetime’s work have been torched for that to be realistic.

    I think they see it that way. I think they are wrong. But as with everything, the devil is in the details and those details are yet to be determined. I think Boris Johnson negotiating those details is something the British should want because he would come far closer to getting them right than Farage or Teresa May.

    • #87
  28. Hang On Member
    Hang On
    @HangOn

    EJHill: I don’t know if they fully appreciate the American football analogy but Britain’s supporters of the European Union are taking the concept of “moving the goalposts” to new heights.

    All rather like the NeverTrumpers and their idiocy.

    • #88
  29. Trajan Inactive
    Trajan
    @Trajan

    The right to wave the EU flag, is somehow more legitimate than the right to wave the GB colors….

    • #89
  30. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    PHenry:After the contest has ended with a clear winner according to the rules, claiming that the majority wasn’t large enough, or that a second vote would not go the same way, is to undermine the underpinning of the democratic process.

    Ah, but which rules? The rules of the party allow for the rules committee to adopt rules for this convention. By rule, they are not bound by the rules of the previous convention.

    There are state laws that bind delegates to vote for the primary winner, but there is a very real question as to whether a state has the power to bind a private association (the Republican Party) and determine the rules by which it operates.

    So, if we want to be sticklers about rules, I don’t think they favor the pro-Trump status quo.

    • #90
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