A Thought Experiment: Inspired by Sen. Rubio

 

shutterstock_314009114Senator Marco Rubio is back in the news thanks to his decision to seek reelection for his Florida senate seat. From the beginning of this election cycle, I was ambivalent toward him as a presidential prospect and the ambivalence remains to this day. Simply put, Rubio’s talents qualify him well for some parts of the presidency, but poorly for others. From the start, I’ve felt that he would make the perfect head of state. An eloquent public speaker, clear eyed about America’s role in the world and with the bi-partisan instincts needed to function as a truly national figure, the Florida senator would be uniquely well suited as the face of the American Republic. And as much as conservatives shun this kind of thinking, Rubio’s ethnicity and family history would add a certain symbolic value.

Symbolism, however, is the key and therein lies the problem. Due to the Founders’ inability to predict the rise of the imperial presidency, we are left with a unitary executive that combines the functions of a head of state and head of government. To the former office, Rubio would excel; to the latter, his thin resume and proclivity to “work across the aisle” — as well as his somewhat shaky conservatism on domestic issues — would be far less well-suited. Our country is greatly polarized and precious few of our problems will be solved without a nasty partisan fight, the kind that would pose a major obstacle to any would-be unifying figure attempting to represent America abroad with a united voice. For the job of head of government, the present moment requires not just a true conservative, but also a leader who does not mind being hated, perhaps even one capable of reveling in his own unpopularity. A certain Texas senator — ironically, of similar ethnic heritage — comes to mind.

Given that the current situation is nearly impossible to contemplate, let’s turn to a hypothetical. Suppose that the modern presidency were not the noxious combination of chief executive and deified celebrity that we see today. Suppose further that it were possible to separate the necessary task of symbolic leadership from the even more necessary task of, you know, actual leadership. Whom would you support for president, if we still had a choice? More importantly, whom would you support for prime minister?

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  1. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Gaius: Due to the founders’ inability to predict the rise of the imperial presidency we are left with a unitary executive combining the functions of a head of state and head of government.

    I don’t think they failed to predict this.  I think they failed to predict the Congress of these United States to would be filled with men without chests.

    • #1
  2. Herbert Inactive
    Herbert
    @Herbert

    As a Floridian, I have to admit that I wasn’t particularly fond of Rubio,  Can’t exactly say why, except one of my close friends is a Cuban exile and he detested Rubio.  I think I was influenced by him.  I have grown in my appreciation for Rubio.  I think he would be a good POTUS.

    • #2
  3. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    American Statesman? Rubio would be sensational.

    Git ‘er Dun bare knuckles fighter? Mitch Daniels. Scott Walker. Ted Cruz just maybe.

    • #3
  4. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Also as a Floridian (freshwater Conch), I really, really liked Rubio.

    I got back from a year in Iraq at the tail end of ’09, right before the elections.  Rubio was speaking at the Key Largo Sailing Club, a five minute walk from my domicile, so me and the wifey walked over.

    He was great.  And, he had his two daughters with him.  He had struck a “daddy deal” to the tune of, “c’mon down with me, sit through this thing I gotta do, then we’ll go have dinner at your favorite Keys restaurant” (I think it was Sundowners, but not sure).  And the biggest indicator to me was, his kids were awesome.  My wife sat at the table with them, while Marco gave his stump spiel.  Know what?  You can hide the fact that your kids aren’t entitled brats, or that you’re not a slimy politician.  But you can’t fake having great kids, and thus being a great parent.  That counts, for me.

    Rubio was succinct, sharp and crisp.  Per the running joke at the time, he spoke smoothly and flawlessly for 45 minutes–and stated “I don’t need a teleprompter to do it.”

    I sorta had a man crush.  Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco.  You broke my heart.

    • #4
  5. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Boss Mongo:Also as a Floridian (freshwater Conch), I really, really liked Rubio.

    I got back from a year in Iraq at the tail end of ’09, right before the elections. Rubio was speaking at the Key Largo Sailing Club, a five minute walk from my domicile, so me and the wifey walked over.

    He was great. And, he had his two daughters with him. He had struck a “daddy deal” to the tune of, “c’mon down with me, sit through this thing I gotta do, then we’ll go have dinner at your favorite Keys restaurant” (I think it was Sundowners, but not sure). And the biggest indicator to me was, his kids were awesome. My wife sat at the table with them, while Marco gave his stump spiel. Know what? You can hide the fact that your kids aren’t entitled brats, or that you’re not a slimy politician. But you can’t fake having great kids, and thus being a great parent. That counts, for me.

    Rubio was succinct, sharp and crisp. Per the running joke at the time, he spoke smoothly and flawlessly for 45 minutes–and stated “I don’t need a teleprompter to do it.”

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    • #5
  6. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    What happens if Rubio doesn’t win his re-election?

    • #6
  7. Gaius Member
    Gaius
    @Gaius

    Guruforhire:What happens if Rubio doesn’t win his re-election?

    I’d say Rubio is taking the risk of having to bear a much greater share of the blame for a lost GOP majority in the senate than if he had stayed out of the race. The wiser move would have been to wait and run for Florida gov. Now to get up from my armchair…

    • #7
  8. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Gaius:

    Guruforhire:What happens if Rubio doesn’t win his re-election?

    I’d say Rubio is taking the risk of having to bear a much greater share of the blame for a lost GOP majority in the senate than if he had stayed out of the race. The wiser move would have been to wait and run for Florida gov. Now to get up from my armchair…

    True.  But maybe he’s actually a patriot.  Maybe he can’t sit in his armchair and watch ESPN unto the Fall.  There comes a point, and I think we’re getting there, where you put all the chips on the table or you walk away, conceding defeat.

    • #8
  9. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:Also as a Floridian (freshwater Conch), I really, really liked Rubio.

    I got back from a year in Iraq at the tail end of ’09, right before the elections. Rubio was speaking at the Key Largo Sailing Club, a five minute walk from my domicile, so me and the wifey walked over.

    He was great. And, he had his two daughters with him. He had struck a “daddy deal” to the tune of, “c’mon down with me, sit through this thing I gotta do, then we’ll go have dinner at your favorite Keys restaurant” (I think it was Sundowners, but not sure). And the biggest indicator to me was, his kids were awesome. My wife sat at the table with them, while Marco gave his stump spiel. Know what? You can hide the fact that your kids aren’t entitled brats, or that you’re not a slimy politician. But you can’t fake having great kids, and thus being a great parent. That counts, for me.

    Rubio was succinct, sharp and crisp. Per the running joke at the time, he spoke smoothly and flawlessly for 45 minutes–and stated “I don’t need a teleprompter to do it.”

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    • #9
  10. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:…

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    I do not reckon so.

    • #10
  11. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:…

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    I do not reckon so.

    And why is that?

    • #11
  12. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:…

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    I do not reckon so.

    Rick Perry also committed a similiar suicide in 2011 with the “doesn”t have a heart line.”  He couldn’t get any traction in 2016.  Didn’t even achieve take off.

    How many promising politicians have to destroy their careers before someone starts whispering “pssst I wouldn’t do that [redacted] if I was you?”

    • #12
  13. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:…

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    I do not reckon so.

    And why is that?

    The level of support and loyalty Rubio enjoys at Ricochet while disregarding his lack of viability due to the current immigration crisis, mood of the country, and his support/participation in the G8.

    I think he has many positive qualities and even wrote in a post that in a time of crisis he was the one I think best suited to address the nation among those who ran.

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    • #13
  14. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Guruforhire:

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Boss Mongo:…

    I sorta had a man crush. Voted for him. Lauded him.

    Then he went all in with the gang of douches immigration reform…and I got nothing for him.

    You broke my heart, Marco. You broke my heart.

    Everyone who thinks G8 doesn’t matter – read this.

    That is a very small number from the Ricochet population I would reckon.

    I do not reckon so.

    Rick Perry also committed a similiar suicide in 2011 with the “doesn”t have a heart line.” He couldn’t get any traction in 2016. Didn’t even achieve take off.

    How many promising politicians have to destroy their careers before someone starts whispering “pssst I wouldn’t do that [redacted] if I was you?”

    I think Rick Perry did other damage, but you make a great point.

    Part of being a great politician is being in tune/touch with likely voters. For those who were likely to vote in Republican primaries national sovereignty and immigration enforcement are big issues (I will await the links to RCP showing it is the 8th most important on XYZ exit poll).

    Whether it was the G8 residue, Kascih’s Democrat talking points, or Ted Cruz lawyering amendments to death nobody got it except the real estate agent that filled a stadium to the chants of build the wall.

    And here we are.

    • #14
  15. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:The level of support and loyalty Rubio enjoys at Ricochet while disregarding his lack of viability due to the current immigration crisis, mood of the country, and his support/participation in the G8.

    I think he has many positive qualities and even wrote in a post that in a time of crisis he was the one I think best suited to address the nation among those who ran.

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    And who argued that the G8 did nothing to him?

    • #15
  16. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    BrentB67:

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    Well said, and I suspect that the amount of damage was rather surprising to Rubio as well.  I’m still left with the feeling that it was an obstacle that could have been overcome by the will that drives some politicians.   He was a nonfactor early on, seemingly hoping  that voters would come to him at some point.  Hubris.

    • #16
  17. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Hoyacon:

    BrentB67:

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    Well said, and I suspect that the amount of damage was rather surprising to Rubio as well. I’m still left with the feeling that it was an obstacle that could have been overcome by the will that drives some politicians. He was a nonfactor early on, seemingly hoping that voters would come to him at some point. Hubris.

    If anyone could overcome it, it was him. He has the skill and presence to pull off sincere humility and mea culpa then pivot to strong conservative nationalism.

    The reality is that this year a primary candidate had to run as hard against Washington DC incumbent Republicans as they would the Democrats. That is a hard needle to thread. Ted Cruz arguably was positioned to do so, but made too many early tactical errors.

    • #17
  18. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:The level of support and loyalty Rubio enjoys at Ricochet while disregarding his lack of viability due to the current immigration crisis, mood of the country, and his support/participation in the G8.

    I think he has many positive qualities and even wrote in a post that in a time of crisis he was the one I think best suited to address the nation among those who ran.

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    And who argued that the G8 did nothing to him?

    You are a very active and thoughtful member. I will assume you read our Main Feed and comments elsewhere.

    • #18
  19. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    Rubio should have known that he was laying his own gamete generating orbs on the third rail because he watched Perry launch his career into the sky, detonating it, and littering the country side with its detritus.

    • #19
  20. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:The level of support and loyalty Rubio enjoys at Ricochet while disregarding his lack of viability due to the current immigration crisis, mood of the country, and his support/participation in the G8.

    I think he has many positive qualities and even wrote in a post that in a time of crisis he was the one I think best suited to address the nation among those who ran.

    The ability to discount the damage he did to himself and the party with the G8 debacle is rather wondrous to me, but seems to fit with the overall outcome of this year’s primary.

    And who argued that the G8 did nothing to him?

    You are a very active and thoughtful member. I will assume you read our Main Feed and comments elsewhere.

    The argument was not over nothing or something but how much it had damaged him. From polling and voting it was quite clear that Rubio was not actually hated or disliked by the vast majority of the Republican electorate.

    There is consistent polling data that corroborates that point. The real question was how the numerous open primaries and the plurality winning rules of many early primaries and caucuses would mix with trump’s high level of democratic and independent support. trump won over large numbers of independents and probably all the democrats that switched over.

    Add in his name recognition (which is one of the best indicators of electoral success) with the non stop 1 billion dollar media coverage and it was quite in trump’s favor. As one can tell from many of those states it was enough to give trump that 35% victory in many states and that gave him hundreds of delegates.

    The other question was who was going to consolidate the actual republican electorate (ya know the people who actually pledge some fealty to the Republican Party and do the ground work so that it can exist as a political party). That didn’t really happen and we got trump.

    Rubio’s subpar handling of G8 was not his reason for defeat, it was a reason that he didn’t perform as well as he could have.

    • #20
  21. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:…

    The argument was not over nothing or something but how much it had damaged him. From polling and voting it was quite clear that Rubio was not actually hated or disliked by the vast majority of the Republican electorate.

    There is consistent polling data that corroborates that point. The real question was how the numerous open primaries and the plurality winning rules of many early primaries and caucuses would mix with trump’s high level of democratic and independent support. trump won over large numbers of independents and probably all the democrats that switched over.

    Add in his name recognition (which is one of the best indicators of electoral success) with the non stop 1 billion dollar media coverage and it was quite in trump’s favor. As one can tell from many of those states it was enough to give trump that 35% victory in many states and that gave him hundreds of delegates.

    The other question was who was going to consolidate the actual republican electorate (ya know the people who actual pledge some fealty to the Republican Party and do the ground work so that it can exist as a political party). That didn’t really happen and we got trump.

    Rubio’s subpar handling of G8 was not his reason for defeat, it was a reason that he did perform as well as he could have.

    You’ve proved my point.

    • #21
  22. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:

    Could Be Anyone:

    BrentB67:…

    The argument was not over nothing or something but how much it had damaged him. From polling and voting it was quite clear that Rubio was not actually hated or disliked by the vast majority of the Republican electorate.

    There is consistent polling data that corroborates that point. The real question was how the numerous open primaries and the plurality winning rules of many early primaries and caucuses would mix with trump’s high level of democratic and independent support. trump won over large numbers of independents and probably all the democrats that switched over.

    Add in his name recognition (which is one of the best indicators of electoral success) with the non stop 1 billion dollar media coverage and it was quite in trump’s favor. As one can tell from many of those states it was enough to give trump that 35% victory in many states and that gave him hundreds of delegates.

    The other question was who was going to consolidate the actual republican electorate (ya know the people who actual pledge some fealty to the Republican Party and do the ground work so that it can exist as a political party). That didn’t really happen and we got trump.

    Rubio’s subpar handling of G8 was not his reason for defeat, it was a reason that he didn’t perform as well as he could have.

    You’ve proved my point.

    Your point is an exaggeration of what the actual truth is. You would like to argue that Rubio would have won but for G8. I don’t think so. For several years now there had been a political advantage to acting as an “outsider” and it culminated with trump. The trump narrative was not anchored in the immigration policy, that is where it started, but it encompassed a meta critique of politics that had begun under Cruz.

    This narrative had significant sway with various blocks in America and trump managed to barely cobble enough to win those pluralities which got him this nomination.

    trump took what was Cruz’s theme and blew up it even more. But even with all those advantages I would argue that trump did poorly. If he had truly been a great candidate he would have easily won 60% of all votes cast in the primary, he got about 45% with 17 opponents and that is counting after the race was over and a number of primaries occurred after that.

    I find this sad because I believe independents and democrats have no right to be influencing the political party I belong to. If they want to influence then they can register as republicans.

    • #22
  23. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    CBA, I am not arguing he would’ve won if not for G8.

    I am arguing that there are a great many who think he could’ve won regardless of his participation in G8 for solely emotional reasons.

    I reject the notion that Trump took Cruz’s reason(s) for running and blew them up. Cruz’s strategy was rooted in fealty to the Constitution as a path to individual liberty and prosperity. Trump demonstrates no evidence of having read the Constitution.

    • #23
  24. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    As to your point about independents and Democrats being allowed to exercise influence in a Republican primary I think your argument is sound. However, I don’t think that is germain to this discussion. Rubio didn’t lose because Trump was in the race. I believe if Trump did not participate the gap between Cruz and Rubio would’ve been much larger as many of the souther states sans Florida (but that isn’t sure) would’ve gone for Cruz.

    I think it interesting that Bernie Sanders is fighting for opening Democrat primaries while Ted Cruz and Ken Cuccinelli are working behind the scenes with prospective rules committee members to close the 2020 Republican primaries.

    Your thoughts on those divergent strategies.

    • #24
  25. Hoyacon Member
    Hoyacon
    @Hoyacon

    Could Be Anyone:

    Rubio’s subpar handling of G8 was not his reason for defeat, it was a reason that he didn’t perform as well as he could have.

    Would you agree that he didn’t put in the time necessary?  I understand that few saw Trump coming, but somewhere there was a miscalculation on the Rubio campaign’s part about when to turn it on.  By then–thanks in part to the delegate rules–the game was almost over.

    I still expect to see him in the White House assuming that he beats Grayson.   He learned some invaluable lessons.

    • #25
  26. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:I reject the notion that Trump took Cruz’s reason(s) for running and blew them up. Cruz’s strategy was rooted in fealty to the Constitution as a path to individual liberty and prosperity. Trump demonstrates no evidence of having read the Constitution.

    Because at the end of the day Cruz’s arguments were not actually about the constitution. Those played a part in his meta narrative but the overall point was a critique of the DC establishment and the cartel (the cartel being a term he had coined himself). We can go back and look all over the place and see him using that populist anti-DC message as his biggest weapon. Constitutional fidelity was there but it was something for the veteran Republicans more than anyone else.

    trump took that and ran and Cruz held several rallies with him on big button issues like the Iran Deal which gave trump credibility and after using that same meta narrative and getting critiqued Cruz backed trump (as did several prominent conservative radio speakers like Levin and Limbaugh). That gave trump some serious bona fides.

    But trump took it further and claimed all of DC was corrupt and stupid (that including Cruz whereas Cruz had argued he and a small number of the faithful were at work).

    BrentB67: I am arguing that there are a great many who think he could’ve won regardless of his participation in G8 for solely emotional reasons.

    If Rubio was going to have won he would have needed to start his comedic roasting sooner on the debate stage. That would have probably warmed more people up to him and might have changed the momentum that started with Iowa. A victory for him in Iowa would have given him prominence over Cruz in the “who would be the young senator to take the mantle Paul vs Rubio vs Cruz”.

    • #26
  27. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    BrentB67:As to your point about independents and Democrats being allowed to exercise influence in a Republican primary I think your argument is sound. However, I don’t think that is germain to this discussion. Rubio didn’t lose because Trump was in the race. I believe if Trump did not participate the gap between Cruz and Rubio would’ve been much larger as many of the souther states sans Florida (but that isn’t sure) would’ve gone for Cruz.

    That’s hard to say. South Carolina would have went to Rubio if trump’s support was gone and likewise with Florida. Even then trump gathered support from most corners (as you and I would both agree trump isn’t a conservative ideologue at all).

    I think it interesting that Bernie Sanders is fighting for opening Democrat primaries while Ted Cruz and Ken Cuccinelli are working behind the scenes with prospective rules committee members to close the 2020 Republican primaries.

    Your thoughts on those divergent strategies.

    In the case of Sanders it is either his silly democracy notion of having the public decide not only public institution elections but also private elections too or that he is being politically cynical and hoping that by opening up independents to vote they can offset super delegates and the like because they tend to go for the outsider (after all if they were in favor of current political doctrine they would have already registered democrat and registered democrats tend to vote for the “anointed” candidate). Having independents vote can give an outsider like Sanders much needed political support.

    In the case of Cuccinelli and Cruz its most likely a mixture of political advantage and fealty to the party. Cruz’s base of support were Republican activists and not independents and the moderates tend to defeat the conservatives in primaries where the independents and democrats are allowed to vote. That and Republicans should be electing Republicans as their nominee, otherwise the party really has no purpose.

    • #27
  28. Could Be Anyone Member
    Could Be Anyone
    @CouldBeAnyone

    Hoyacon:

    Could Be Anyone:

    Rubio’s subpar handling of G8 was not his reason for defeat, it was a reason that he didn’t perform as well as he could have.

    Would you agree that he didn’t put in the time necessary? I understand that few saw Trump coming, but somewhere there was a miscalculation on the Rubio campaign’s part about when to turn it on. By then–thanks in part to the delegate rules–the game was almost over.

    I still expect to see him in the White House assuming that he beats Grayson. He learned some invaluable lessons.

    The comedic roasting or what exactly? Rubio could have tried that sooner but we need to remember that the debates were messes those first 4 or 5 times. It was hard to get anything in edge wise since they were so time constrained.

    • #28
  29. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    CBA, I respectfully disagree that Rubio had a chance absent Trump. I think the damage from G8 was too great.

    I agree that much of Trump’s early support came from interlopers, but not all and I think the Republicans that did vote Trump would’ve been more inclined to vote Cruz.

    Absent Trump I think Cruz wins South Carolina and is competitive in Florida and Rubio is staring at Secretary of State in January 2017.

    • #29
  30. Guruforhire Member
    Guruforhire
    @Guruforhire

    As the Original Gilmore supporter, I judge you all.

    • #30

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