Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Muslims Must Declare War on Radical Islam

 

As the devastation in Orlando unfolded, I felt a tiny grain of hope that President Obama would finally show some teeth against the very real threat posed by radical Islam. Would he label the horror show for what it was? But — true to form, and after acknowledging the slaughter that befell on the defenseless — he diverted attention to gun laws without uttering even the slightest hint regarding who and what the killer represented. The Left ran with it, saturating the media and Internet with LGBT solidarity. Much of what followed was not a discussion about Islamic terrorism, but focused on the 2nd Amendment and homosexual rights, with fingers pointing to usual targets such as the NRA and religious leaders. Points for consistency, even in the shadow of cascading evil.

I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam. Yet, there seem to be very few to take on the gargantuan effort necessary to focus world attention on the growing Islamic threat. Nonetheless, it’s during times of tragedy that heroes are made. Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, president of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, said that the Orlando mass shooting should be a wakeup call for moderate Muslims.

To our friends, associates, and acquaintances who practice Islam, my heart goes out to you as you face rage from many American corners that will tempt you to turn inward and cocoon. I ask you to fight that urge.

If radicalized Jews had hijacked Judaism and perpetrated this reprehensible bloodshed, instead of hiding behind special interests groups that divert attention to politically expedient low-hanging fruit, I would be actively fighting to take my religion back.

American Muslims, stand up and make your voices heard. I will stand with you as you fight back against the brutal murderers of the innocent, the rapists of women and children, and those leaders who espouse hate, homophobia, and genocide in the name of Islam. Even seemingly insignificant efforts like sharing your thoughts on social media, writing letters to your local newspaper editors, or calling into radio shows can help. Share your outrage at Orlando, Tel Aviv, San Bernardino, Paris, and wherever the next scene of carnage occurs.

While feckless politicians highlight and target the side effects, the cancer is metastasizing. Others will — and should — join you in solidarity, but it is up to you.

There are 102 comments.

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  1. Judge Mental Member

    David Sussman: I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam.

    How do you know that exactly? I’ve seen precious little evidence of it over the last 15 years.

    • #1
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:19 PM PDT
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  2. Austin Murrey Inactive

    At least we’ve settled the question as to whether Muslims or the LGBT community had priority on the victim hierarchy.

    • #2
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:20 PM PDT
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  3. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Judge Mental:

    David Sussman: I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam.

    How do you know that exactly? I’ve seen precious little evidence of it over the last 15 years.

    Anecdotally, with Muslims I know in my life, and then there’s math: There are how many Muslims and how many subscribe to the tenets of radicalism?

    • #3
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:22 PM PDT
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  4. Judge Mental Member

    David Sussman:

    Judge Mental:

    David Sussman: I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam.

    How do you know that exactly? I’ve seen precious little evidence of it over the last 15 years.

    Anecdotally, with Muslims I know in my life, and then there’s math: There are how many Muslims and how many subscribe to the tenets of radicalism?

    That is exactly the question I don’t believe you can answer. Don’t give me the one tenth of one percent crap. Those are the ones currently wearing suicide vests.

    Baptists would have declared war on radical Baptists the first day. Same with every religion I can think of except one.

    • #4
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:29 PM PDT
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  5. Jordan Inactive

    Killing homosexuals is in no way radical Islam.

    Not only is homosexuality illegal in nearly all Muslim nations, it is punishable by death in many, if not most, of them.

    This is an instance where the terrorist attack may be construed as moderate Islam. Sure, the attacker identifies with ISIS, but it’s not as if killing homosexuals is some extreme position.

    I found this (representative) sample of Twitter reactions to the attack.

    • #5
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:37 PM PDT
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  6. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Judge Mental:That is exactly the question I don’t believe you can answer. Don’t give me the one tenth of one percent crap. Those are the ones currently wearing suicide vests.

    Baptists would have declared war on radical Baptists the first day. Same with every religion I can think of except one.

    JM,

    I don’t think anyone can give you numbers, hence my ‘assumptions’, as highly flawed ‘polling’ of Muslims showing such sympathies to teachings range all over the map. How questions are asked and cultural differences play a part.

    But it looks like we agree. The Muslims themselves need to clean their own house. Whether that’s here, England, Europe or North Africa, the vacuum of world leadership needs to be filled, and who better than those who have a vested interest in claiming back what is theirs.

    • #6
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:41 PM PDT
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  7. BrentB67 Inactive

    I’ve not come across outrage in the Muslim community personally. What I’ve noticed is more like apathy, ambivalence, and silence. All of which in the long run are tantamount to endorsements.

    I don’t believe there is a bright line between mainstream Islam and radical Islam.

    • #7
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:45 PM PDT
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  8. Phil Turmel Coolidge

    David Sussman: Anecdotally, with Muslims I know in my life, and then there’s math: There are how many Muslims and how many subscribe to the tenets of radicalism?

    Unless you know them all extraordinarily well, I would dismiss your “anecdotally” as far more likely to be taqiyya than not. I’m not going to hold my breath for significant numbers of moderate muslims to publicly denounce their radical brethren. Doing so adds them to the radicals’ target list.

    • #8
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:49 PM PDT
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  9. BrentB67 Inactive

    I think evidence of the misguided almost tacit support for ISIS and their tactics is the stream of able bodied young men leaving the region for EU and elsewhere rather than staying to fight.

    If Islam wants to declare war on radical Islam (and such a differentiation can be made) there is no better place to fight radical Islam than Syria and surrounding areas.

    What I’ve been exposed to is that there isn’t much resistance to what ISIS is doing as there is resistance to living under their extreme view and implementation of sharia.

    • #9
    • June 13, 2016, at 12:57 PM PDT
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  10. DocJay Inactive

    The issue should be near existential for those who have that faith. Either the religion reforms and modernizes despite the difficulty inherent with the Koran or it doesn’t. If the religion cannot reform then it’s time to face the fact that hundreds of millions of followers need to die and the followers in western civilization need to be marginalized like contagious lepers.

    So it’s time for PC folks here( right and left) to step aside and for Muslims in America to stand up to our colleges, our TV, the internet and most critically the Satanic Verses which spell the doom of their faith.

    • #10
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:03 PM PDT
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  11. Bill Nelson Member

    I have to differ with the term radical Islam. It is not radical. It is Islam, plain and simple. Muslims believe, as the central tenet of faith, that the Koran is the word of God, and has no defects. There are no religious philosophical differences in this belief. Where there are possible conflicts in sura verses, abrogation is applied, and the new verse takes precedence, God providing a better rule. These newer verses came from Medina, when Mohammed was the conquering warlord and did not need to “get along” with others. The more violent verses come from this period.

    Islam never had a reformation.

    • #11
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:20 PM PDT
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  12. Mendel Member
    MendelJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Judge Mental:

    David Sussman: I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam.

    How do you know that exactly? I’ve seen precious little evidence of it over the last 15 years.

    Over the course of my life, I’ve known a few dozen Muslims very well, and been acquainted/worked with about 100 more (primarily well-educated transplants from places like Iran or Afghanistan).

    The majority of these Muslims eagerly denounced radical Islam and violent terrorism (not surprising given many of them fled violent Islam). Their lifestyles also strongly suggested that they subscribed to the Judeo-Christian principles of tolerance and openness. A minority of my acquaintances were more reticent about denouncing violence, and a small minority just gave me the chills.

    However, among those who denounced violence and intolerance in the name of Islam, the only ones who would do so publicly were the secular ones who were really only Muslim-in-name-only. Meanwhile, those who were devout and/or regularly practicing would often go into depth in private about how wrong the jihadists were, but would avoid open criticism in public.

    My sense was not that they secretly agreed with the violence or that they were scared of retribution; rather, I think their silence was akin to the child of a convicted murderer who is not willing to denounce their father in public.

    • #12
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:20 PM PDT
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  13. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Jordan:Killing homosexuals is in no way radical Islam.

    Not only is homosexuality illegal in nearly all Muslim nations, it is punishable by death in many, if not most, of them.

    This is an instance where the terrorist attack may be construed as moderate Islam. Sure, the attacker identifies with ISIS, but it’s not as if killing homosexuals is some extreme position.

    I found this (representative) sample of Twitter reactions to the attack.

    I would suggest we learn the difference between Islam the religion and Islamism, the sharia political ideology which indoctrinates young Muslims with supremacy, violence and hatred.

    As a growing number of openly homosexual Muslims assimilate in western cultures we can assume the divide between Islam and sharia will only grow wider.

    • #13
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:23 PM PDT
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  14. Arahant Member

    Radical Islam would be moderation. This guy who is killing people? He is practicing Islam. No modifiers. He is a good Muslim. He is doing what is required by his religio-ideology.

    In Christianity, we have C&E Christians. They come to church on the big holidays, but don’t necessarily practice it every day. This is equivalent to these moderate Muslims I keep hearing about. We wouldn’t call a C&E Christian a “good” Christian. Take from that what you will.

    But it will always come back to the texts of Islam.

    • #14
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:27 PM PDT
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  15. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Phil Turmel:

    David Sussman: Anecdotally, with Muslims I know in my life, and then there’s math: There are how many Muslims and how many subscribe to the tenets of radicalism?

    Unless you know them all extraordinarily well, I would dismiss your “anecdotally” as far more likely to be taqiyya than not. I’m not going to hold my breath for significant numbers of moderate muslims to publicly denounce their radical brethren. Doing so adds them to the radicals’ target list.

    Phil,

    All true, and Im not here to defend Muslims. I am purporting that it’s time for those who have assimilated into western societies to speak up and act. Dr. Nasser speaks for many who don’t have the courage to do so, and I’m suggesting we support him and those who want to kill the cancer from within.

    • #15
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:28 PM PDT
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  16. Kozak Member
    KozakJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The problem isn’t radical Islam.

    The Jihadi’s are practicing plain old Islam.

    Everything they do is in either the Koran or the Hadiths.

    • #16
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:28 PM PDT
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  17. Mendel Member
    MendelJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Austin Murrey:At least we’ve settled the question as to whether Muslims or the LGBT community had priority on the victim hierarchy.

    Actually, I don’t think we have.

    Instead of choosing between whether Muslims or LGBT need to be protected more, liberals have dodged the decision by yet again just blaming everything on conservative Americans.

    • #17
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:29 PM PDT
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  18. Arahant Member

    Kozak:The problem isn’t radical Islam.

    The Jihadi’s are practicing plain old Islam.

    Everything they do is in either the Koran or the Hadiths.

    Exactly.

    • #18
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:36 PM PDT
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  19. Vance Richards Member
    Vance RichardsJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Mendel:

    Austin Murrey:At least we’ve settled the question as to whether Muslims or the LGBT community had priority on the victim hierarchy.

    Actually, I don’t think we have.

    Instead of choosing between whether Muslims or LGBT need to be protected more, liberals have dodged the decision by yet again just blaming everything on conservative Americans.

    Yeah, in a conflict between Muslims and LGBT, it is clear that the NRA is the only one at fault.

    • #19
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:40 PM PDT
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  20. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    BrentB67:I think evidence of the misguided almost tacit support for ISIS and their tactics is the stream of able bodied young men leaving the region for EU and elsewhere rather than staying to fight.

    If Islam wants to declare war on radical Islam (and such a differentiation can be made) there is no better place to fight radical Islam than Syria and surrounding areas.

    What I’ve been exposed to is that there isn’t much resistance to what ISIS is doing as there is resistance to living under their extreme view and implementation of sharia.

    Devil’s advocate Brent: If there is no ‘moderate’ Islam, with over a billion adherents, how do we not have Orlando’s occurring every day?

    • #20
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:41 PM PDT
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  21. Concretevol Thatcher

    Is Sharia law “radical”? I honestly don’t know the answer. The ISIS connection to the shooting is important but the belief that homosexuals must die is based in Sharia law, not isolated in ISIS or other radical groups.

    • #21
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:48 PM PDT
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  22. Mendel Member
    MendelJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Kozak:The problem isn’t radical Islam.

    The Jihadi’s are practicing plain old Islam.

    Everything they do is in either the Koran or the Hadiths.

    I disagree somewhat. A religion is not a text – even if a religion is based on a text – but rather, a religion is how living humans interpret those texts.

    And no matter what the text says, there is always huge leeway for interpretation. After all, mainstream interpretations of the Christian Bible have ranged over time from calling for mass killings of innocents to a prohibition on self-defense. So at some point, the text itself becomes much less relevant.

    There’s no denying that when compared with the Christian Bible, the Koran is certainly much more pro-violence. But there is also plenty of room for peaceful interpretations if its practitioners so choose.

    In the end, people still determine their own actions, not dead texts. Muslims can adhere to the Koran and yet interact peacefully with their neighbors – but whether they choose to is a different matter.

    • #22
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:51 PM PDT
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  23. Roberto, Crusty Old Timer LLC Member
    Roberto, Crusty Old Timer LLCJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Vance Richards:

    Mendel:

    Austin Murrey:At least we’ve settled the question as to whether Muslims or the LGBT community had priority on the victim hierarchy.

    Actually, I don’t think we have.

    Instead of choosing between whether Muslims or LGBT need to be protected more, liberals have dodged the decision by yet again just blaming everything on conservative Americans.

    Yeah, in a conflict between Muslims and LGBT, it is clear that the NRA is the only one at fault.

    No, not the only one.

    • #23
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:51 PM PDT
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  24. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Mendel:

    Judge Mental:

    David Sussman: I know most Muslims abhor what the radicalized sociopaths have done to Islam.

    How do you know that exactly? I’ve seen precious little evidence of it over the last 15 years.

    Over the course of my life, I’ve known a few dozen Muslims very well, and been acquainted/worked with about 100 more (primarily well-educated transplants from places like Iran or Afghanistan).

    The majority of these Muslims eagerly denounced radical Islam and violent terrorism (not surprising given many of them fled violent Islam). Their lifestyles also strongly suggested that they subscribed to the Judeo-Christian principles of tolerance and openness. A minority of my acquaintances were more reticent about denouncing violence, and a small minority just gave me the chills.

    However, among those who denounced violence and intolerance in the name of Islam, the only ones who would do so publicly were the secular ones who were really only Muslim-in-name-only. Meanwhile, those who were devout and/or regularly practicing would often go into depth in private about how wrong the jihadists were, but would avoid open criticism in public.

    My sense was not that they secretly agreed with the violence or that they were scared of retribution; rather, I think their silence was akin to the child of a convicted murderer who is not willing to denounce their father in public.

    Mendel,

    And that’s the challenge. No matter how many Charlie Hebdo’s or Orlando’s occur, there are the usual post attack days of social media preening support for the victims, but little discussion (outside of corners like Ricochet) where the silent group within the Muslim faith are incentivized to become more vocal. Stockholm syndrome or whatever it may be, Germany proved a collective group can break free from their horror show if political and cultural forces allow it.

    • #24
    • June 13, 2016, at 1:54 PM PDT
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  25. Arahant Member

    David Sussman: Devil’s advocate Brent: If there is no ‘moderate’ Islam, with over a billion adherents, how do we not have Orlando’s occurring every day?

    There is no moderate Islam. There are Muslims who do not practice Islam fully. Most of them do not. Why? Because going out and converting by force, enslaving, and killing is hard work. Being a good Christian or a good Jew is also hard work, but neither requires forced conversion, enslaving, or murdering people.

    Of course, there are many milder forms of jihad, like lying to the infidels to convince them you don’t sympathize with the guys are who going full out in practicing Islam as written.

    • #25
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:14 PM PDT
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  26. BrentB67 Inactive

    David Sussman:

    Mendel:

    Judge Mental:

    David Sussman: ….

    ….

    However, among those who denounced violence and intolerance in the name of Islam, the only ones who would do so publicly were the secular ones who were really only Muslim-in-name-only. Meanwhile, those who were devout and/or regularly practicing would often go into depth in private about how wrong the jihadists were, but would avoid open criticism in public.

    My sense was not that they secretly agreed with the violence or that they were scared of retribution; rather, I think their silence was akin to the child of a convicted murderer who is not willing to denounce their father in public.

    Mendel,

    And that’s the challenge. No matter how many Charlie Hebdo’s or Orlando’s occur, there are the usual post attack days of social media preening support for the victims, but little discussion (outside of corners like Ricochet) where the silent group within the Muslim faith are incentivized to become more vocal. Stockholm syndrome or whatever it may be, Germany proved a collective group can break free from their horror show if political and cultural forces allow it.

    I think for your analogy to work we have to make the assumption that the jihadis are the ones that are practicing Islam incorrectly and must be reformed.

    It isn’t obvious that within Islam that is the correct assumption.

    Germany turned against their past because they inherently knew it was wrong and wanted to join the first world.

    • #26
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:28 PM PDT
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  27. Randy Webster Member

    David Sussman: wherever the next scene of carnage occurs.

    That sort of says it all, doesn’t it?

    • #27
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:33 PM PDT
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  28. Mendel Member
    MendelJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Arahant: Of course, there are many milder forms of jihad, like lying to the infidels to convince them you don’t sympathize with the guys are who going full out in practicing Islam as written.

    Phil Turmel: Unless you know them all extraordinarily well, I would dismiss your “anecdotally” as far more likely to be taqiyya than not.

    Every time we have this conversation, this same point inevitably gets made as a some sort of slam dunk:

    “Oh, those supposedly enlightened Muslims saying they denounce violence? They’re all just lying the way their religion tells them to.”

    I find this comment unhelpful on several levels. Consider that a number of the Muslims in the west fled their countries because they were being persecuted by violent Islamists – in some cases, their close relatives are dead or in prison thanks to the Taliban or the Iranian ayatollahs.

    Or that some Muslims speaking out within their community against violence are themselves constantly being threatened by their fellow Muslims. One friend is a professor of Islam who is very well known in his national community for his stances against violent Islam, and is constantly receiving death threats by other Muslims.

    Have I been lied to by some of my Muslim friends? Probably. But taking the knee-jerk default assumption that all Muslims who advocate peace are probably lying is not only lazy; it flies in the face of obvious evidence and poisons the very well that we should be drinking from.

    • #28
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:33 PM PDT
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  29. Dave Sussman Podcaster
    Dave Sussman

    Concretevol:Is Sharia law “radical”? I honestly don’t know the answer. The ISIS connection to the shooting is important but the belief that homosexuals must die is based in Sharia law, not isolated in ISIS or other radical groups.

    From what I have read Sharia goes against the very tenets of what constitutes a modern civilized society as it prohibits a wide array of human rights.

    • #29
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:40 PM PDT
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  30. Mendel Member
    MendelJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    BrentB67:I think for your analogy to work we have to make the assumption that the jihadis are the ones that are practicing Islam incorrectly and must be reformed.

    It isn’t obvious that within Islam that is the correct assumption.

    Your fallacy is assuming that there is a “correct” interpretation of Islam.

    Neither you nor I believe in Islam. Thus, the Koran is just as fictional as the Great Gatsby. Is there a correct interpretation of the Great Gatsby? No. Perhaps there’s a specific interpretation that Fitzgerald had in mind, just as Mohammed might have had specific intentions in mind when he penned the Koran. But once a work of writing gets disseminated, each reader automatically receives an equally valid right to interpret that work as they please.

    And even if we were believers, who would have a right to tell us which interpretation is correct. I’m Protestant, so I don’t believe that the Pope’s interpretation is somehow “correct”. Why should it be any different for Islam?

    • #30
    • June 13, 2016, at 2:42 PM PDT
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