Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Dare We Pivot to the General?

 
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I hate to distract from the fruitful business of waging an all out intra-party civil war, but — in case no one else has noticed — Hillary Clinton has some vulnerabilities that hit American pocketbooks in far more personal ways than Ted Cruz’s alleged zipper problem or Trump’s incorrigible … Trumpiness.

This story highlights more than her daughter’s lack of political skill and this story — also featuring the once and future First Daughter — further shows the awkward dance of running for the third term of an unsuccessful presidency. Clinton has a difficult dilemma on her hands: How to run for Obama’s third term while, at the same time, acknowledging the disaster that is Obama’s signature achievement? This seems like a perfect way for the Republican nominee — assuming we actually end up with one after these on-going wars of the roses — to force her to choose between pandering to the Democratic base by defending Obamacare or appealing to independents who know full-well what Obamacare has done to their healthcare costs.

I think either Donald Trump or Senator Ted Cruz could beat Clinton in the general by forcing her to either go negative on Obama (thereby depressing the black vote) or go all-in on Obamacare (thereby losing her the independent vote). But if she is allowed to play the part of the Experienced Commonsense Reformer™ while we squabble over the possibility of GOP bimbo eruptions, she’ll win in a walk.

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  1. TKC1101 Inactive

    She is eminently beatable but not by the traditional Republican dogma. If you go after her with globalist Darwinian only the hardest workers or best schooled get anything, she wins.

    You need to give average people some hope that you have their back.

    I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    • #1
    • March 26, 2016, at 11:31 AM PDT
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  2. Rodin Member

    TKC1101:

    I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    What, this isn’t Lake Wobegon?!

    • #2
    • March 26, 2016, at 11:34 AM PDT
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  3. blood thirsty neocon Inactive

    TKC1101:She is eminently beatable but not by the traditional Republican dogma. If you go after her with globalist Darwinian only the hardest workers or best schooled get anything, she wins.

    You need to give average people some hope that you have their back.

    I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    I totally agree. Marginal tax rates and small business incentives are not gonna move the dial this year. Romney and Ryan had their chance. Of course, in their defense, they didn’t have the benefit of Obamacare actually having been implemented yet. We aren’t gonna win with charts and graphs. It’s simple, how much are you spending on health care? How much are you earning versus 5-10 years ago? Average people are very well informed when it comes to their own pocket book. The more our nominee makes Hillary answer questions like this, the better chance we have of winning.

    • #3
    • March 26, 2016, at 12:13 PM PDT
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  4. Melissa O'Sullivan Inactive

    “incorrigible Trumpiness”…I like it! It’s a good term and a great post!

    • #4
    • March 26, 2016, at 12:32 PM PDT
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  5. Leigh Member

    TKC1101: I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    You know, in my actual daily life I live among average people, not in a political bubble.

    Can I just point out that Trump is, himself, appealing to an electorate that is in something of a bubble? You’re right that the traditional conservative message is a hard sell. I’ve actually been fully aware of that all my life. But disparage the traditional conservative message all we like, every set of polls we have indicates it does better against Clinton than Trump’s message.

    If Trump’s voters take seriously the possibility of his “depressing the black vote” against Clinton — if you think things like Trump’s swipe at the personal appearance of an opponent’s wife won’t really matter with voters who count — I’m sorry, at best we have bubble meeting bubble in mutual illusion.

    • #5
    • March 26, 2016, at 12:44 PM PDT
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  6. blood thirsty neocon Inactive

     

    You know, in my actual daily life I live among average people, not in a political bubble.

    Can I just point out that Trump is, himself, appealing to an electorate that is in something of a bubble? You’re right that the traditional conservative message is a hard sell. I’ve actually been fully aware of that all my life. But disparage the traditional conservative message all we like, every set of polls we have indicates it does better against Clinton than Trump’s message.

    If Trump’s voters take seriously the possibility of his “depressing the black vote” against Clinton — if you think things like Trump’s swipe at the personal appearance of an opponent’s wife won’t really matter with voters who count — I’m sorry, at best we have bubble meeting bubble in mutual illusion.

    Can we take a break from the civil war for one minute? “Average Americans” and us bubble boys and girls can at least agree on some things: We’re paying more for health care and not earning more money. I’m sure the candidates’ wives are high on the list of issues that Americans average and otherwise care about, but so are kitchen table issues. We can beat Hillary on those issues alone, but only if the never-never-landers and the Trumpiacs make peace.

    • #6
    • March 26, 2016, at 1:26 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  7. TKC1101 Inactive

    Leigh

    I looked at my comment and keep missing any reference to any candidate.

    I request you stop adding content to my comments.

    The GOP message to the Presidential electorate has been doing poorly.

    I suggest we say things that get votes for a change.

    You may disagree of course.

    • #7
    • March 26, 2016, at 2:12 PM PDT
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  8. Leigh Member

    blood thirsty neocon: Can we take a break from the civil war for one minute? “Average Americans” and us bubble boys and girls can at least agree on some things: We’re paying more for health care and not earning more money. I’m sure the candidates’ wives are high on the list of issues that Americans average and otherwise care about, but so are kitchen table issues. We can beat Hillary on those issues alone, but only if the never-never-landers and the Trumpiacs make peace.

    I don’t want to throw out kitchen table issues and I totally agree Clinton should be beatable. But we will not defeat her by making peace behind Trump.

    • #8
    • March 26, 2016, at 2:12 PM PDT
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  9. blood thirsty neocon Inactive

    Leigh:

    blood thirsty neocon: Can we take a break from the civil war for one minute? “Average Americans” and us bubble boys and girls can at least agree on some things: We’re paying more for health care and not earning more money. I’m sure the candidates’ wives are high on the list of issues that Americans average and otherwise care about, but so are kitchen table issues. We can beat Hillary on those issues alone, but only if the never-never-landers and the Trumpiacs make peace.

    I don’t want to throw out kitchen table issues and I totally agree Clinton should be beatable. But we will not defeat her by making peace behind Trump.

    Okay, resume the arguments about Trump cheating on his wife with Ted Cruz’s wife or whatever we’re supposed to be fighting about. I’m gonna go sit out the Clinton II administration in South America. At least there’s still one continent where Americans can still live safely. Seriously, I can’t take 8 more years of hearing from the POTUS every day what an [expletive] I am.

    • #9
    • March 26, 2016, at 2:37 PM PDT
    • 1 like
  10. Profile Photo Member

    TKC1101: I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    Yep: just like ringing the statistical “bell curve” (but not The Bell Curve which is, of course, anathema)

    • #10
    • March 28, 2016, at 4:48 AM PDT
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  11. Ball Diamond Ball Inactive

    blood thirsty, could you drop the sphincter terminology? Trust me, it’s poor form here, and I want to see you around here for a long time.

    • #11
    • March 28, 2016, at 4:59 AM PDT
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  12. I Walton Member

    The easy sell also happens to be true. “Folks you are bing ripped off by these politicians and their sweetheart deals. When government is big intrusive and gets to pick winners, do they pick you or to they pick Goldam Sachs, GE, et al. Politicians have been lying to you for 50 years and they keep getting richer and more powerful and you keep getting poorer.” This happens to be the conservative message. All of our candidates carried this message except Trump but Trump supporters believe he’s saying the same thing. Bernie carried half the message, the ripped off part but not why. Folks can understand the why. Just keep it simple.

    • #12
    • March 28, 2016, at 5:07 AM PDT
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  13. The (apathetic) King Prawn Inactive

    Clinton’s strike out yesterday does not bode well for her. Socialism is selling big in their party, but is easily refuted with simple pictures of actual socialism. All we really have to do is keep our base intact and not energize theirs to win this. There were many paths to success this year and only one I can think of to failure.

    • #13
    • March 28, 2016, at 5:11 AM PDT
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  14. Nick Stuart Inactive

    Rodin:

    TKC1101:

    I hate to inform the true conservatives here, but there is a significant majority of average people in the electorate. It is shocking, I know, but you can look it up.

    What, this isn’t Lake Wobegon?!

    More like Belmont.

    • #14
    • March 28, 2016, at 5:17 AM PDT
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  15. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    TKC1101: I looked at my comment and keep missing any reference to any candidate.

    Heh heh…no, you totally weren’t talking about Trump, not at all. I mean, I certainly didn’t read your comment and say to myself “Why is he making this about Trump?” Nope.

    • #15
    • March 28, 2016, at 6:36 AM PDT
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  16. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    blood thirsty neocon: We can beat Hillary on those issues alone, but only if the never-never-landers and the Trumpiacs make peace.

    If by “make peace” you mean “vote happily for whomever gets the nomination”, I’m in. As long as Trump doesn’t get the nomination. Bah ha ha ha!

    • #16
    • March 28, 2016, at 6:41 AM PDT
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  17. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    The King Prawn:Clinton’s strike out yesterday does not bode well for her. Socialism is selling big in their party, but is easily refuted with simple pictures of actual socialism. All we really have to do is keep our base intact and not energize theirs to win this. There were many paths to success this year and only one I can think of to failure.

    According to some folks I’ve been conversating with, photos of “actual socialism” would include a police officer, helping an old lady across the street; a city worker, fixing a hydrant; a kind man at the post office selling stamps.

    You know, just government, doing government stuff.

    • #17
    • March 28, 2016, at 6:43 AM PDT
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  18. The (apathetic) King Prawn Inactive

    Spin: According to some folks I’ve been conversating with, photos of “actual socialism” would include a police officer, helping an old lady across the street; a city worker, fixing a hydrant; a kind man at the post office selling stamps.

    I’ll take anarchy instead.

    • #18
    • March 28, 2016, at 7:00 AM PDT
    • 1 like
  19. Douglas Inactive

    Spin:

    The King Prawn:Clinton’s strike out yesterday does not bode well for her. Socialism is selling big in their party, but is easily refuted with simple pictures of actual socialism. All we really have to do is keep our base intact and not energize theirs to win this. There were many paths to success this year and only one I can think of to failure.

    According to some folks I’ve been conversating with, photos of “actual socialism” would include a police officer, helping an old lady across the street; a city worker, fixing a hydrant; a kind man at the post office selling stamps.

    You know, just government, doing government stuff.

    Those folks are idiots. Full stop.

    • #19
    • March 28, 2016, at 7:39 AM PDT
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  20. livingtheLoneStarlife Inactive

    The King Prawn: Socialism is selling big in their party, but is easily refuted with simple pictures of actual socialism.

    You don’t understand… the other countries haven’t done socialism nearly as well as the Democrats will. There’s more money in the US for them to steal, and it’s America; we’ll never run out of other people’s money.

    • #20
    • March 28, 2016, at 8:12 AM PDT
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  21. James Gawron Thatcher
    James GawronJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    blood thirsty,

    You are correct again. A simple tv ad would be a husband & wife sitting at the kitchen table going over receipts. Out of an old folder the wife finds a 2012 paid bill for their health insurance.

    She says, “Look at this we were paying only $550.00 a month in 2012 for health care and now it’s $1,200.00. The husband takes the paid bill in his hand and looks at it. He says, “Yeah, and look at the coverage, we had a lower deductible than we have now!” She looks at him and says, “We were going to Dr. Smith for 20 years but the new plan wouldn’t let us continue.”

    Fade to black voice over “THANKS OBAMA”

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #21
    • March 28, 2016, at 8:17 AM PDT
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  22. Spin Inactive
    SpinJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Douglas: Those folks are idiots. Full stop.

    Why you so racist, huh?

    • #22
    • March 28, 2016, at 12:01 PM PDT
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  23. TKC1101 Inactive

    Spin: Heh heh…no, you totally weren’t talking about Trump, not at all. I mean, I certainly didn’t read your comment and say to myself “Why is he making this about Trump?” Nope.

    You have managed to take derangement syndrome to some new level heretofore unseen.

    Apparently, any critique of GOP messaging is Trump support in your vast intellect. I have been watching the GOP lose with bad and pitiful messaging long before the current crop of candidates.

    I have been engaged in campaigns since Nixon and observed them since Eisenhower. I expect to continue long after this current crop is long past. Now run along and call some folks fascists, since that is what passes for deep thought these days.

    (BTW, that “Heh, heh”. Nice touch. Best Beavis & Butthead impression this year so far)

    • #23
    • March 28, 2016, at 11:45 PM PDT
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