Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Jim Webb’s Heraclean Labor

 

He refers to the “stables of the American governmental system.” I had no idea Jim Webb was such an erudite guy, slipping in a reference to the Ἡρακλέους ἆθλοι. I should have expected nothing less from Reagan’s former Secretary of the Navy and a highly decorated veteran. Webb alludes that Trump just might be the man to clean out the stables. Perhaps he is.

But not even Heracles had to clean those stables.

We would do well to recall that Heracles’ solution was inelegant. It made an awful mess. But there’s really no elegant way to clean a stable, especially one such as King Augeas’.

It would be easy to blame Heracles, but we all know that it’s really Augeas’ fault. He allowed the stables to pile up, day after day, year after year. He didn’t want to deal with the the mundane logistics of keeping an unreasonable number of cattle, but kept the cattle all the same.

He wanted a magical solution. A demigod delivered a solution. It wasn’t deus ex machina. It was more of a lesson.

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  1. Profile Photo Member

    Do we get the word “athlete” from ἆθλοι?

    • #1
    • March 4, 2016, at 4:41 PM PST
    • Like
  2. TKC1101 Inactive

    Webb can bring in a lot of patriotic democrats who are naturally conservative. This is an interesting opening to consider.

    Webb is clearly a guy who has no home in the Democrat Party.

    A Webb Sec Def gets you a guy who was a trigger puller and knows internal DOD BS when he sees it.

    • #2
    • March 4, 2016, at 4:46 PM PST
    • Like
  3. Jordan Inactive
    Jordan

    10 cents:Do we get the word “athlete” from ἆθλοι?

    Yeah it’s related. The verb is athlein, “to compete for a prize.” Means, “struggles” more than labor. There’s also a religious context to this struggle. This is a cultural thing though since sports is also a religious activity.

    • #3
    • March 4, 2016, at 4:48 PM PST
    • Like
  4. Profile Photo Member

    Jordan:

    10 cents:Do we get the word “athlete” from ἆθλοι?

    Yeah it’s related. The verb is athlein, “to compete for a prize.” Means, “struggles” more than labor. There’s also a religious context to this struggle. This is a cultural thing though since sports is also a religious activity.

    Are you saying Trump is going to divert the Potomac or am I taking the analogy too far?

    • #4
    • March 4, 2016, at 4:58 PM PST
    • Like
  5. Jordan Inactive
    Jordan

    10 cents:

    Jordan:

    10 cents:Do we get the word “athlete” from ἆθλοι?

    Yeah it’s related. The verb is athlein, “to compete for a prize.” Means, “struggles” more than labor. There’s also a religious context to this struggle. This is a cultural thing though since sports is also a religious activity.

    Are you saying Trump is going to divert the Potomac or am I taking the analogy too far?

    I’m saying it’s gonna take a lot more than that.

    • #5
    • March 4, 2016, at 4:59 PM PST
    • Like
  6. TKC1101 Inactive

    10 cents: Are you saying Trump is going to divert the Potomac or am I taking the analogy too far?

    Based on the blood pressure of the denizens of the DC swamp, he has backed up some kind of flow.

    • #6
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:02 PM PST
    • Like
  7. Profile Photo Member

    TKC1101:

    10 cents: Are you saying Trump is going to divert the Potomac or am I taking the analogy too far?

    Based on the blood pressure of the denizens of the DC swamp, he has backed up some kind of flow.

    Methane, you protest to much.

    • #7
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:05 PM PST
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  8. Brad B. Inactive

    I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    • #8
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:24 PM PST
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  9. Blondie Thatcher

    My dad agrees with you, Byron.

    • #9
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:31 PM PST
    • Like
  10. Jordan Inactive
    Jordan

    Byron Horatio:I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    A man too decent for his own time I fear. Part of me thinks Webb understands this about himself, which is why he points to Trump being a valid choice.

    Webb would be a hero for a more civilized age, but today is laughed out of the Democratic nomination by a red diaper baby and Madam Naptime.

    • #10
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:50 PM PST
    • Like
  11. Hoyacon Member

    Byron Horatio:I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    He has all of the qualifications to be Trump’s VP. Political and defense experience, cross-over appeal, from an important swing state, and, most important, a Trumpian outside the box choice.

    • #11
    • March 4, 2016, at 5:52 PM PST
    • Like
  12. Carey J. Inactive

    93e63dd1e2cecdd965ee0f246d74d62e

    • #12
    • March 4, 2016, at 6:08 PM PST
    • Like
  13. Valiuth Member
    Valiuth Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Byron Horatio:I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    Webb had no chance to be nominated by the Democrats. To be frank I would probably take Joe Biden over Trump if that is still in the cards somehow? Right now though it looks like its between a con-man, a crook, and a socialist. No thank you. I say.

    • #13
    • March 4, 2016, at 9:34 PM PST
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  14. Guruforhire Member

    Byron Horatio:I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    I am still mad he hung his aide out to dry on a federal firearms violation.

    • #14
    • March 5, 2016, at 4:31 AM PST
    • Like
  15. Larry3435 Member

    10 cents:

    Jordan:

    10 cents:Do we get the word “athlete” from ἆθλοι?

    Yeah it’s related. The verb is athlein, “to compete for a prize.” Means, “struggles” more than labor. There’s also a religious context to this struggle. This is a cultural thing though since sports is also a religious activity.

    Are you saying Trump is going to divert the Potomac or am I taking the analogy too far?

    I think it’s more like Trump is going to get rid of the cattle but keep the manure.

    • #15
    • March 5, 2016, at 5:43 AM PST
    • Like
  16. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Sorry fellas, Webb lost me when he violated basic firearm safety and made his aide a patsy.

    Here is a link to the story.

    Here is a synopsis.

    • Webb is running late to the airport.
    • As he approaches security he abruptly hands his briefcase to his aide.
    • The aide takes the briefcase home for the weekend.
    • When the aide take the briefcase to the office building, he has to pass through security (Note, Senators do NOT pass through security)
    • The briefcase is placed on an x-ray machine and the gun is observed.
    • The aide is arrested.

    My Theory:

    • Webb remembered the gun was in the briefcase as he approached Airport security.
    • He gives the briefcase to the aide and neglects to tell him about the gun.
    • The aide takes the briefcase to his home (where there are small children) and is lucky that one of his kids doesn’t rummage through daddy’s stuff.
    • The aide takes the gun to the Senate building and is stunned when the gun is revealed.
    • Webb plays coy and lets his aide take the fall.

    Webb lacks basic integrity. This article <CoC Notice it is the Daily Kos> fits every element of my theory.

    • #16
    • March 5, 2016, at 6:02 AM PST
    • Like
  17. Profile Photo Member

    Jordan:He didn’t want to deal with the the mundane ………

    He wanted a magical solution.

    So do we.

    • #17
    • March 5, 2016, at 6:21 AM PST
    • Like
  18. donald todd Inactive

    Valiuth:

    Byron Horatio:I think Webb would have made a great president. Had the stars aligned and he been the Democratic nominee against Trump, I would vote for him without heasitation. Probably one of the most decent men to hold public office in recent memory.

    Webb had no chance to be nominated by the Democrats. To be frank I would probably take Joe Biden over Trump if that is still in the cards somehow? Right now though it looks like its between a con-man, a crook, and a socialist. No thank you. I say.

    Another conservative position, not.

    • #18
    • March 5, 2016, at 6:30 AM PST
    • Like
  19. Profile Photo Member

    Instugator:

    • Webb plays coy and lets his aide take the fall.

    Webb lacks basic integrity.

    And we want a magical solution–without stain of reality. No out out damned spot for us. We want spotless–magical thinking.

    • #19
    • March 5, 2016, at 6:52 AM PST
    • Like
  20. Aaron Miller Member
    Aaron Miller Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Don’t get hung up on the messenger. The important element is that this is being said on a left-wing news show.

    For American government and culture to be restored, we need both political parties to be reformed. It’s okay to disagree with one’s neighbors about good governance. But when hatred and undisguised oppression become pillars of half the nation’s politics, look out.

    • #20
    • March 5, 2016, at 7:08 AM PST
    • Like
  21. Profile Photo Member

    Jordan:

    He refers to the “stables of the American governmental system.” I had no idea Jim Webb was such an erudite guy, slipping in a reference to the Ἡρακλέους ἆθλοι. I should have expected nothing less from Reagan’s former Secretary of the Navy and a highly decorated veteran. Webb alludes that Trump just might be the man to clean out the stables. Perhaps he is.

    But not even Heracles had to clean those stables.

    We would do well to recall that Heracles’ solution was inelegant. It made an awful mess. But there’s really no elegant way to clean a stable, especially one such as King Augeas’.

    It would be easy to blame Heracles, but we all know that it’s really Augeas’ fault. He allowed the stables to pile up, day after day, year after year. He didn’t want to deal with the the mundane logistics of keeping an unreasonable number of cattle, but kept the cattle all the same.

    He wanted a magical solution. A demigod delivered a solution. It wasn’t deus ex machina. It was more of a lesson.

    Let me get this right – this failed presidential candidate will maybe support Trump because he doesn’t know if Trump will do more of the same or not, but he knows Hillary will? Haven’t we tried voting for a blank slate-Brack Obama in 2008-before? Why do so many people in America want to consider voting for somebody on the possibility, not the promise, that the person running will do something different? Why don’t many Americans supporting such candidates want to know what the something different actually is? In other words, why don’t positions matter, why is style and perception more important than substance? Are voters sympathetic to Obama and now Trump this impressionable and unthinking, or am I missing something?

    • #21
    • March 5, 2016, at 7:31 AM PST
    • Like
  22. dbeck Inactive

    Moral degeneracy of the country has gone too far, no turning back. Once the Pandora box was opened it can’t be shut. It doesn’t matter who is elected the deck is stacked against him. He still has 435 people to deal with who all have to answer to their donors. Webb would have been a flawed but decent man to be president, might have slowed the decent of the country into the chaos we are headed for financially and culturally. Too bad.

    • #22
    • March 5, 2016, at 7:42 AM PST
    • Like
  23. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Yes, Webb personally is not pristine- someone who is prickly, ethnicity obsessed (in his case, it is the Scots-Irish), impossible to get along with (both in Congress and the three wives) has issues that drown the message, but the concept of an honest conservative Democrat is correct. Being such a person, e.g., Zell Miller, may not help when the lefty message machine operates, but it would be nice if there were more. Pretenders like Tim Kaine who talk the game but close ranks when the party line is threatened are just that-pretenders.

    • #23
    • March 5, 2016, at 8:19 AM PST
    • Like
  24. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    TKC1101:Webb can bring in a lot of patriotic democrats who are naturally conservative. This is an interesting opening to consider.

    Webb is clearly a guy who has no home in the Democrat Party.

    A Webb Sec Def gets you a guy who was a trigger puller and knows internal DOD BS when he sees it.

    But is also ineffective because you need a whip cracker who is not perceived as the enemy. And Webb was anti-battle in every case- he opposed Iraq (and his son was deployed there) because it would be hard on soldiers. Webb or LTG HR McMaster? Pretty easy choice.

    • #24
    • March 5, 2016, at 8:25 AM PST
    • Like
  25. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Derek Simmons:

    Instugator:

    • Webb plays coy and lets his aide take the fall.

    Webb lacks basic integrity.

    And we want a magical solution–without stain of reality. No out out damned spot for us. We want spotless–magical thinking.

    If he will make his trusted aide a patsy, he will make one of you.

    • #25
    • March 5, 2016, at 9:37 AM PST
    • Like
  26. Z in MT Member

    Instugator:

    Derek Simmons:

    Instugator:

    • Webb plays coy and lets his aide take the fall.

    Webb lacks basic integrity.

    And we want a magical solution–without stain of reality. No out out damned spot for us. We want spotless–magical thinking.

    If he will make his trusted aide a patsy, he will make one of you.

    Instugator, I had not heard about this. This is a huge black mark against Webb.

    • #26
    • March 5, 2016, at 10:32 AM PST
    • Like
  27. Douglas Inactive

    TKC1101:Webb can bring in a lot of patriotic democrats who are naturally conservative. This is an interesting opening to consider.

    Webb is clearly a guy who has no home in the Democrat Party.

    A Webb Sec Def gets you a guy who was a trigger puller and knows internal DOD BS when he sees it.

    I’ve been predicting for a few weeks now that Trump might offer Webb SecDef. He’s a no-brainer for the job, and Trump can say “Hey, I’ve got Democrats in my cabinet too”.

    • #27
    • March 5, 2016, at 10:59 AM PST
    • Like
  28. TKC1101 Inactive

    Duane Oyen: But is also ineffective because you need a whip cracker who is not perceived as the enemy. And Webb was anti-battle in every case- he opposed Iraq (and his son was deployed there) because it would be hard on soldiers. Webb or LTG HR McMaster? Pretty easy choice.

    I agree, not ideal. But he is also a grandstander jackass, so you back him up with people who can do the job. Politics never gives you ideal or even close.

    • #28
    • March 5, 2016, at 11:19 AM PST
    • Like
  29. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Z in MT:

    Instugator:

    Derek Simmons:

    Instugator:

    • Webb plays coy and lets his aide take the fall.

    Webb lacks basic integrity.

    And we want a magical solution–without stain of reality. No out out damned spot for us. We want spotless–magical thinking.

    If he will make his trusted aide a patsy, he will make one of you.

    Instugator, I had not heard about this. This is a huge black mark against Webb.

    When I was at The Zoo we were required to read Webb’s A Sense of Honor. Good book, but when I want a story about teaching a boy to be a man I prefer Starship Troopers.

    • #29
    • March 5, 2016, at 11:49 AM PST
    • Like
  30. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Duane Oyen:

    TKC1101:Webb can bring in a lot of patriotic democrats who are naturally conservative. This is an interesting opening to consider.

    Webb is clearly a guy who has no home in the Democrat Party.

    A Webb Sec Def gets you a guy who was a trigger puller and knows internal DOD BS when he sees it.

    But is also ineffective because you need a whip cracker who is not perceived as the enemy. And Webb was anti-battle in every case- he opposed Iraq (and his son was deployed there) because it would be hard on soldiers. Webb or LTG HR McMaster? Pretty easy choice.

    The remarkable thing about LTG McMaster is that he initially wasn’t chosen for his star. It was only the backlash against that decision and the stats that the Army was passing over combat-decorated vets that led to the appointment of General Petreaus to head the promotion board to review the process. McMaster received his star in 2008.

    McMaster v Webb, no contest – but why are you bringing it up?

    • #30
    • March 5, 2016, at 11:55 AM PST
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