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  1. I Walton Member
    I Walton
    @IWalton

    Yes.  We could show another layer called government between the two, with hands in the earners pockets or a siphon and the red with hands or a siphon in the government’s pockets.  Got to show that the vehicle for  predatory success is government.

    • #1
  2. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    I like the visual.

    It’s easy for a demagogue to get votes by stoking peoples natural envy of the rich, a class never defined but generally thought of as, “Those who have substantially more than I do.”

    • #2
  3. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    OkieSailor:I like the visual.

    Yeah, but who says that the second line shouldn’t be diagonal, a sideways bell-curve, or a probably combination of the two?

    • #3
  4. FightinInPhilly Coolidge
    FightinInPhilly
    @FightinInPhilly

    I like this a lot- and I think the GOP candidate who successfully defines the slice on the right will be very successful.

    I think we lose a lot of people because we get lost in the philosophical argument that there is no distinction between people who “deserve” their money and those who don’t. I realize that this is First Principals for our side, but in framing our argument this way we miss the opportunity to make larger gains.

    No one has a problem (even on the Left) that Steve Jobs made a ton of money. Or the people who helped Steve Jobs. Or LeBron James. But if you lobby the government to change a law to benefit your company…well, I’m not sure you’re quite the titanic businessman you proclaim yourself to be.

    I believe this sense of fair play appeals to people, and aligns quite correctly with our values. And part of the challenge is persuade people that the government and the people who are cozy with them (I’m looking at you Brian Roberts) are the problem. It’s not the dollars, it’s the way they were obtained.

    • #4
  5. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    I agree with iWalton. If the group highlighted is the enemy we should be equally disdainful of their enablers  in politics. Both parties.

    • #5
  6. BD Member
    BD
    @

    Another AEI Rubio pom-pom waver who calls Cruz a demagogue. No thank you.

    • #6
  7. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    Wait now we don’t like AEI? I may need a list soon of who does and who does not need to be purged…..

    Great graphic Rob, plan on sharing this one!

    • #7
  8. BD Member
    BD
    @

    Concretovol: Steve Conover says he will go independent rather than vote for Cruz. Who is doing the purging here?

    • #8
  9. Marley's Ghost Coolidge
    Marley's Ghost
    @MarleysGhost

    I like it!

    • #9
  10. Owen Findy Member
    Owen Findy
    @OwenFindy

    I haven’t even read the post, yet, but outstanding graphic for a very pervasive, fundamental difficulty in thinking about the world:  slicing the categories along the right/best/correct dimension.

    Example:  partitioning SCOTUS justices as liberal v. conservative.  Even though, in this case there’s much overlap, I think it’s much better to partition them as originalists v. non-.  There are many other examples.

    • #10
  11. Songwriter Inactive
    Songwriter
    @user_19450

    FightinInPhilly:I like this a lot- and I think the GOP candidate who successfully defines the slice on the right will be very successful.

    I think we lose a lot of people because we get lost in the philosophical argument that there is no distinction between people who “deserve” their money and those who don’t. I realize that this is First Principals for our side, but in framing our argument this way we miss the opportunity to make larger gains.

    No one has a problem (even on the Left) that Steve Jobs made a ton of money. Or the people who helped Steve Jobs. Or LeBron James. But if you lobby the government to change a law to benefit your company…well, I’m not sure you’re quite the titanic businessman you proclaim yourself to be.

    I believe this sense of fair play appeals to people, and aligns quite correctly with our values. And part of the challenge is persuade people that the government and the people who are cozy with them (I’m looking at you Brian Roberts) are the problem. It’s not the dollars, it’s the way they were obtained.

    But of course, the Left would have us believe that we obtained nothing on our own without the “help” of government.

    • #11
  12. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    BrentB67:I agree with iWalton. If the group highlighted is the enemy we should be equally disdainful of their enablers in politics. Both parties.

    I am.

    • #12
  13. RyanFalcone Member
    RyanFalcone
    @RyanFalcone

    BD:Concretovol: Steve Conover says he will go independent rather than vote for Cruz. Who is doing the purging here?

    You are. He is. Everyone is purging everyone else. Any “conservative” that says they won’t vote for Cruz or Rubio is the definition of an idiot. Yeah, they both rile well-meaning folks and neither is perfect. It may sting to pull the lever for one if you thought the other better but this is the time and place for some of the fragile snowflakes to act like adults and do the right thing. AEI is now our enemy because of one idiot’s stupidity? I swear, most conservatives seem to be like little children sobbing on the sidelines because they got hit with a dodgeball.

    • #13
  14. Richard Fulmer Inactive
    Richard Fulmer
    @RichardFulmer

    I’m amazed and saddened by the Ricochetti who dismiss this powerful and useful graphic because they don’t like the author’s choice of candidates.  Truth is truth regardless of its source.

    • #14
  15. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas
    @CUDouglas

    This fancy graph has no effect on the left. One of my Socialist Facebook Friends posted this for discussion. He and his left-leaning friends all agreed that though the fractional representation might be accurate, they were still certain that almost all the red belonged in the upper portion of that slice.

    • #15
  16. Concretevol Thatcher
    Concretevol
    @Concretevol

    BD:Concretovol: Steve Conover says he will go independent rather than vote for Cruz. Who is doing the purging here?

    BD, If he said that then I think that is foolish.  I like Rubio but would pull the lever for Cruz in the general with great enthusiasm.  AEI however is a free enterprise think tank with members I may or may not disagree with as far as candidates go….so what?  Still a good graphic in my opinion.

    • #16
  17. BrentB67 Inactive
    BrentB67
    @BrentB67

    Concretevol:Wait now we don’t like AEI? I may need a list soon of who does and who does not need to be purged…..

    Great graphic Rob, plan on sharing this one!

    AEI = James P.

    • #17
  18. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    Yikes! This is a great graphic and instantly the feed turns into a Cruz vs. Rubio thing.

    • #18
  19. C. U. Douglas Thatcher
    C. U. Douglas
    @CUDouglas

    Z in MT:Yikes! This is a great graphic and instantly the feed turns into a Cruz vs. Rubio thing.

    Well I was going to start a Gilmore vs. Santorum thing, but it doesn’t seem relevant any more…

    • #19
  20. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    FightinInPhilly:No one has a problem (even on the Left) that Steve Jobs made a ton of money. Or the people who helped Steve Jobs. Or LeBron James. But if you lobby the government to change a law to benefit your company…well, I’m not sure you’re quite the titanic businessman you proclaim yourself to be.

    Part of this is that Steve Jobs was a *celebrity*, and his products are considered glamorous.  If he had made just as much money creating a business that produced some innovative but boring industrial products…something in metal fabrication, let’s say….would “progressives” still be OK with his wealth?

    • #20
  21. I Shot The Serif Member
    I Shot The Serif
    @IShotTheSerif

    C. U. Douglas:This fancy graph has no effect on the left. One of my Socialist Facebook Friends posted this for discussion. He and his left-leaning friends all agreed that though the fractional representation might be accurate, they were still certain that almost all the red belonged in the upper portion of that slice.

    I saw:

    wrong strawman. the enemy is inequality, and the policies that have created it.

    not infrequently, the entrepreneurs are the predators: Walmart.

    • #21
  22. Jim Kearney Contributor
    Jim Kearney
    @JimKearney

    What’s with “rent-seekers” up there with predators and cronies?

    Is this another dig at Trump?

    Or at Mr. Roper?

    I mean, sure, Roper was a tad homophobic …

    Roper

    but I wouldn’t list rent-seeking as any kind of social war crime.

    • #22
  23. BastiatJunior Member
    BastiatJunior
    @BastiatJunior

    BrentB67:

    Concretevol:Wait now we don’t like AEI? I may need a list soon of who does and who does not need to be purged…..

    Great graphic Rob, plan on sharing this one!

    AEI = James P.

    AEI is a mixed bag.  Arthur Brooks is pretty solid and understands the need to sell conservatism.

    James P. pushes the Reformocons’ worst economic ideas, with a tone of condescension, but he is not all of AEI.

    If Conover really said that about Cruz, he is a jerk.  The graphic still tells it like it is.

    • #23
  24. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Jim Kearney:What’s with “rent-seekers” up there with predators and cronies?

    Is this another dig at Trump?

    Or at Mr. Roper?

    I mean, sure, Roper was a tad homophobic …

    Roper

    but I wouldn’t list rent-seeking as any kind of social war crime.

    JimK,

    My landlord is always rent-seeking when I’m late with the rent. Funny how that is.

    Rent-seeking is when a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.

    Oh. So that’s what they mean.

    How about

    Predators; Cronies; Parasites

    KISS – Keep It Simple Stu…

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #24
  25. JimGoneWild Coolidge
    JimGoneWild
    @JimGoneWild

    Like.

    • #25
  26. FightinInPhilly Coolidge
    FightinInPhilly
    @FightinInPhilly

    David Foster:

    FightinInPhilly:No one has a problem (even on the Left) that Steve Jobs made a ton of money. Or the people who helped Steve Jobs. Or LeBron James. But if you lobby the government to change a law to benefit your company…well, I’m not sure you’re quite the titanic businessman you proclaim yourself to be.

    Part of this is that Steve Jobs was a *celebrity*, and his products are considered glamorous. If he had made just as much money creating a business that produced some innovative but boring industrial products…something in metal fabrication, let’s say….would “progressives” still be OK with his wealth?

    I’ll concede that Jobs is a celebrity but I chose him really as a stand in for anyone that has built a business and made people happier because they bought the product. Let me put it this way- there is a visceral aversion to unearned wealth. The Left thinks about that in terms of inheritance, but they’re wrong. They think about the kid getting rather than the parent disposing of their money as they see fit.

    Unearned in my opinion means no risk was taken. If I’m a Wall Street trader who takes insane risks, crashes the bank but then gets bailed out (even if I pay it back) people do not believe in their gut I’ve “earned it.”  I’ve played the system.

    • #26
  27. devodivo Member
    devodivo
    @devodivo

    Seems to me this graphic concept works for all the divisions the bi-partisan predators, cronies and rent seekers (and campaign consultants) are currently exploiting to gain power and profit. In addition to rich and non-rich, it could apply to women and men, LBGT and heterosexual, white and non-white, as well as conservatives and liberals. What do you think?

    • #27
  28. Jim Kearney Contributor
    Jim Kearney
    @JimKearney

    James Gawron:

    Rent-seeking is when a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.

    Oh. So that’s what they mean.

    How about

    Predators; Cronies; Parasites

    Parasites would be inclusive of entitlement cheats, so it is an improvement.

    I wouldn’t call property owners who rent out rooms parasites. Landlords are intrinsically wealth creators. Renting enables living closer to wealth, closer to jobs, and proximate to opportunity. And it’s a major force in the vacation and leisure industry.

    Out in places like the Hamptons and Fire Island, home owners rent cottages seasonally to hordes of single groupers every summer. Singles communities form, vast quantities of exorbitantly priced provisions and ferry tickets are sold, bar owners prosper. Hard working New Yorkers get a breath of fresh air every summer. Marriages happen. Business relationships form. Real estate values soar.

    Renting allows people to build up capital for down payments on homes. It let’s people live closer to work, saving gas and commuting stress. It’s also a neat way for retired people to parlay their savings into a steady roll of income even when the economy is in the dumper. We need our Trumps and Ropers!

    The term “rent-seekers” must have been dreamed up by someone who doesn’t believe in property ownership — and probably never lived in a public housing project.

    • #28
  29. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Jim Kearney:

    James Gawron:

    Rent-seeking is when a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation.

    Oh. So that’s what they mean.

    How about

    Predators; Cronies; Parasites

    Parasites would be inclusive of entitlement cheats, so it is an improvement.

    I wouldn’t call property owners who rent out rooms parasites. Landlords are intrinsically wealth creators. Renting enables living closer to wealth, closer to jobs, and proximate to opportunity. And it’s a major force in the vacation and leisure industry.

    Out in places like the Hamptons and Fire Island, home owners rent cottages seasonally to hordes of single groupers every summer. Singles communities form, vast quantities of exorbitantly priced provisions and ferry tickets are sold, bar owners prosper. Hard working New Yorkers get a breath of fresh air every summer. Marriages happen. Business relationships form. Real estate values soar.

    Renting allows people to build up capital for down payments on homes. It let’s people live closer to work, saving gas and commuting stress. It’s also a neat way for retired people to parlay their savings into a steady roll of income even when the economy is in the dumper. We need our Trumps and Ropers!

    The term “rent-seekers” must have been dreamed up by someone who doesn’t believe in property ownership — and probably never lived in a public housing project.

    JimK,

    Calling Mr. Pethokoukis, calling Mr. Pethokoukis, will you please pick up the white courtesy phone we have an economic terminological jump-discontinuity crisis. Expert help is required immediately.

    Don’t tell Roper about Fire Island. He thinks it’s a retirement community for Firemen. Probably thinks Earnest Hemingway is still living in Key West.

    Oy vey.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #29
  30. Solon Inactive
    Solon
    @Solon

    C. U. Douglas:This fancy graph has no effect on the left. One of my Socialist Facebook Friends posted this for discussion. He and his left-leaning friends all agreed that though the fractional representation might be accurate, they were still certain that almost all the red belonged in the upper portion of that slice.

    First of all, a moment of solidarity for right wing folks that occasional check their facebook feed.  Almost always gets my heart-rate up.

    Interesting that they thought the red belonged in the upper portion. I bet they said that in order to get rich, you have to be corrupt.

    People don’t like capitalism all that much these days.  They imagine that they are above the basic human instinct to want what’s best for you and you’re people.

    • #30
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