Gov. Nikki Haley Was a Great VP Candidate, Until…

 

… until she gave that divisive speech after Tuesday’s state of the union. Yes, divisive. Who says divisive must be between Republican and Democrat, black and white, poor and rich? It was divisive between establishment loyalists and conservative malcontents. And it was gratuitous.

In 2008, Sen. John McCain — war hero, senator-for-life, and self-appointed Republican strategist — sought to balance his ticket by selecting a governor and hard-core conservative woman as his running mate. It energized the base and the media, though in different ways. It turned out to be a blunder, one of many, that McCain made in his campaign, largely because Sarah Palin was not ready for prime-time and they should have known that.

Haley is a governor, a woman, a somewhat-conservative, and likely to be on the short list for vice-presidential candidates this cycle. But everything changed on Tuesday night. Unlike Palin, Haley is ready for prime time in terms of polish and preparation, but she won’t see it again for a while. Not this cycle anyway.

There are two separate disputes raging between the establishment and the alienated ex-Republicans who feel forced to vote against Democrats each cycle. The first is ideological, and the second is about our approach to strategy and tactics. I contend that this latter dispute is equally intense and important as the ideological debate. And while Haley may be acceptable on the ideology, she’s not with conservatives on strategy and tactics. That matters.

Conservatives are long past the fiction that a Republican candidate has to talk moderate in order to govern conservative. If anything, it’s become the opposite: They tack right in the primaries and govern as moderates and appeasers. In contrast, Democrats, generally talk centrist (wink, wink) and govern as socialists and tribalists.

Republican establishment types have bemoaned this dynamic publicly, to the point where Jeb Bush announced his newfound strategy of “losing the primary to win the general,” thus avoiding the problem of having to pivot on issues when confronted by the media with previous quotes.

Many of us are at our wits end, and near apoplectic at the tendency of our elected officials and candidates to undermine what we see as the winning narrative or — at the very least — a much better one. By conceding the Democrats’ story, our party hands them the argument.

If either Bush, Gov. Chris Christie, or Sen. Marco Rubio get the nomination, he will need to select a running mate who can unify the party and energize the base (good luck with that). Haley has just disqualified herself from that role and, thus, the job.

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  1. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Franco:

    Brian Watt:Hmm…A Republican governor who has guts enough to attack the ignoramus, fraudulent conservative Trump. Maybe some conservative talk show hosts could grow a pair and follow her example. Or is a Leftist, crony-capitalist masquerading as a conservative Republican now considered the only hope to save the republic? Some people need to wake up.

    You need some help with your definitions buddy. And your ire is misplaced. Let’s take crony capitalists. No need to hate them. They are a symptom of our system and the over-regulation of our economy and tax system. You do? It’s not going to be very effective trying to get these guys to stop. Who is worthy of disdain are those who allow themselves to be bought by them while they lie to voters. That’s who the culprit is. If the local cop takes bribes, and you get pulled over for speeding and you can’t afford more points and an insurance hike, you aren’t going to give him $50? Good for you, but it’s the cop who is the real problem.

    Trump is no leftist. You might be able to argue that he’s a Democrat or was a Democrat, but he’s not a leftist.

    I’m not your buddy. And you have a very selective moral compass. You may want to work on that.

    • #61
  2. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:

    MSJL:

    If you choose to take Trumps words about “Mexicans” out of context along with lefties, you are welcome to, but it shuts down speech for the rest of us and does no good for the cause. Obviously, he did not mean all Mexicans. …

    I took nothing out of context.  Here’s what he said:

    “When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they’re killing us economically.

    The US has become a dumping ground for everybody else’s problems.

    (APPLAUSE)

    Thank you. It’s true, and these are the best and the finest.

    When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people. ”

    Sure, he was not talking about all Mexicans, but a fair reading is that he was talking about most Mexicans.  And this is a pretty indiscriminate statement.  The context is in a discussion about illegal immigration, but the statement itself comes across general in nature, and it will be used that way.

    This isn’t a gotcha moment; it’s a thoughtless statement.  It isn’t a matter of being PC, it’s a question of being insulting.  If I am a US citizen of Mexican origin, why should it be unreasonable to think he wasn’t talking about me?

    As to the Muslim moratorium (he said temporary until we figure out what the hell is going on) . … [Chopping some of this out to get to the word limit] …. If you call that xenophobia, go ahead. ….

    First of all, let’s just be clear.  We are throwing away the Muslim vote as indiscriminately as an earlier generation of Republicans threw away the Jewish vote.  For which we neither gain security nor advance our cause.

    Second , for the guys who really want to come here and cause problems, they will find a way around our Muslim-detection capabilities.  This reminds me of the joke from Good Morning Vietnam, with the mock interview with Army Intelligence.  “How do you fight Charlie?” “We ask people we meet if their name is Charlie.  If they say ‘yes’, we shoot them.”

    And I’m still not sure why it doesn’t fairly fall under the category of xenophobia.  Again, this is thoughtless and insulting, and you don’t have to be a Progressive, bed wetting at every micro-aggression to think that way.

    There is no one in the line up of GOP candidates that won’t support better and more effective screening.  So it’s not that I have to accept this option or nothing at all.

    • #62
  3. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    The OP is quite laughable. Nikki Haley is accused of being “divisive”…the insult king Donald Trump apparently not divisive of Republicans at all. Oh, my sides.

    • #63
  4. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    “This stuff you read about how Hispanics are going to run away from Trump in droves is a Northeastern myth,” said longtime presidential campaign adviser Mark Sanders.

    “Most Hispanics here in East Texas are here legally, they vote, and they are hard-line opponents of illegal immigration,” said Mr. Sanders, a top adviser in Democrat Tony Sanchez’s 2002 campaign to unseat then-Gov. Rick Perry. “The only one they want is Trump — not Hillary, not Bernie. That’s the conundrum for Democrats.”

    Mr. Sanders says Hispanics in East Texas “come here from rural backgrounds, from the lower end of the social and economic ladder. Most of their kids go to community colleges because it’s all their families can afford, and then go directly into the military. They have hard-core patriotism — just what Trump plays into,” Mr. Sanders added.

    From the Washington Times.

    • #64
  5. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Here is some more.

    • #65
  6. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Xennady:

    I’m still holding out hope for Carly.

    In retrospect, I can say that Bobby Jindal was my favorite, so I can join you in your misery.

    Well, we agree on something.

    • #66
  7. Robert McReynolds Member
    Robert McReynolds
    @

    Just one more and this one is really good for you “we need amnesty to win” folks.

    • #67
  8. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Columbo:If the Sarah Palin VP pick was a McClain blunder, why did it enthuse the base and turn his campaign events into true “rallys” from previous moribund gatherings of purple-haired ladies? There are pictures that prove this. And please compare and contrast Sarah Palin’s VP acceptance speech at the convention with this week’s SOTU “rebuttal” (not an appropriate term for what Ms. Haley did), and tell me again who is not ready for prime time?

    I was wondering if everyone had forgotten Sarah Palin’s acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention in 2008. It was, quite simply, the greatest and most electrifying performance by a Republican nominee ever!

    Ricochetti, pray to God that whomever we nominate as President or Veep in 2016 does half the job of rallying every segment of the Republican faithful as Palin did on that glorious night.

    • #68
  9. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Brian Watt:Hmm…A Republican governor who has guts enough to attack the ignoramus, fraudulent conservative Trump. Maybe some conservative talk show hosts could grow a pair and follow her example. Or is a Leftist, crony-capitalist masquerading as a conservative Republican now considered the only hope to save the republic? Some people need to wake up.

    Tune in to the Michael Medved Show. It’ll warm your non-divisive heart.

    As far a Republican governor who has enough guts to attack Donald Trump…whatever happened to Rick Perry?

    • #69
  10. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:

    MSJL:

    It is in Mexico’s interest to send their worst people here, and theyt do among others. This wouldn’t be a problem if we had been enforcing our laws, and GW Bush was equally to blame here. Boy I wish our criminal class would emigrate elsewhere, too. When he says you and you, he’s taking to individual hispanics probably Mexican Americans.

    The statement was made at his presidential announcement speech.  There is no indication from any reporting that I read to indicate that he was addressing these comments to specific Hispanics in the audience versus addressing these comments to the audience generally.  Sorry, you’re adding a gloss to these statements to create a different context for them that I don’t think can be supported.

    So here, you know the context, and are still promoting the fiction as though he means all Mexicans? You know better and yet you are willing to carry water for leftists because you hate Trump so much? Wow.

    No, I like to think I am carrying water for conservatives, center-right and independents because I hate Trump.  Seriously, he insults my intelligence and wastes my time.   I find his fumbling over the nuclear triad and TPP cringe-worthy, just to name a few.  As I mentioned in a separate conversation, he falls so far below the threshold for me, that I will not vote for him even if he were to get the nomination.  Quite frankly, I do not understand the reason so many are ready to carry the water for someone who is clearly not up to the task and will likely not live up to expectations.

    And the problem remains that you guys are so worried that what Trump says reflects badly on all Republicans (because lefties are so good at making distinctions themselves, right?) that you are willing to feed anyone who misspeaks, or doesn’t carefully craft his statements so they will pass Thought Police approval, to the media hounds, unable to see that they do this to everybody, one way or the other. This hurts all Republicans.

    I have no problem with people who misspeak or occasionally speak out of turn.  For goodness sake, I voted for W three times (once as governor).  I don’t mind someone who cross a line.

    But Trump’s statements are thoughtless, not to make a point but to be provocative.  This isn’t about being PC, it’s about simply insulting groups of people because you can get away with it.  When he insulted Carly Fiorino’s looks, was that an example of bravely challenging the Left’s PC standards, or was he simply being an ass?  The statement above can fairly be read in context as insulting to any American of Mexican descent.  Most of his “policy” statements are little more than ramblings off the top of his head.  I am sick of pretending that this guy is breath of fresh air.

    • #70
  11. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Brian Watt: I’m not your buddy. And you have a very selective moral compass. You may want to work on that.

    I didn’t say you were my buddy, I just called you ‘buddy’. And I’m so sorry I don’t meet your moral standards. I don’t take advice from strangers, only friends I trust.

    • #71
  12. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Robert McReynolds:

    Franco:

    MSJL:

    And the problem remains that you guys are so worried that what Trump says reflects badly on all Republicans (because lefties are so good at making distinctions themselves, right?) that you are willing to feed anyone who misspeaks, or doesn’t carefully craft his statements so they will pass Thought Police approval, to the media hounds, unable to see that they do this to everybody, one way or the other. This hurts all Republicans.

    Exactly. Name me a GOP candidate that is not going to be called a racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobe by the Left and the Media when it comes crunch time. Hell Carly would be called a sexist if she won because she is a Republican. In fact her womanhood has already been questioned, just as Palin’s was when she was near the pinnacle of success.

    Oh, most certainly whoever gets the nod will get the full treatment later this year.  Do we have to give them the ammunition to do it with?

    I don’t buy the argument that just because Trump makes the most inflammatory statements that he’s the bravest speaker of truth to power.  Between these occasional statements that strike a chord, there is a vast wasteland of nonsense coming out of that guy.  We have a great line up of candidates who are serious, capable, and won’t insult me by actually preparing for debates.  To me, this guy brings nothing to the table and feeds our opponents everything they need to hit us over the head.  At least Romney had the courtesy to speak about the 47% behind closed doors, and look at the mileage Barry got off of that.

    • #72
  13. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL: Sure, he was not talking about all Mexicans, but a fair reading is that he was talking about most Mexicans. And this is a pretty indiscriminate statement. The context is in a discussion about illegal immigration, but the statement itself comes across general in nature, and it will be used that way.

    No, it’s not a fair reading. It may be misused, as you yourself misused it earlier trying to make a point, but it’s time to stop playing this silly game

    MSJL: First of all, let’s just be clear. We are throwing away the Muslim vote as indiscriminately as an earlier generation of Republicans threw away the Jewish vote. For which we neither gain security nor advance our cause.

    By the time the muslim vote is significant kiss America goodbye, unless you have some grand strategy to assimilate them and basically convert them to disavow sharia law.

    MSJL: ..I’m still not sure why it doesn’t fairly fall under the category of xenophobia. Again, this is thoughtless and insulting, and you don’t have to be a Progressive, bedwetting at every micro-aggression to think that way.

    This is a sovereign nation, at least in theory. I don’t see why we have to let anyone in who wants to come. It sounds as if you really care about what the Muslim world thinks of us and that we can change that via our immigration policies. Naive. You aren’t living in the real world.

    • #73
  14. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Freesmith:

    As far a Republican governor who has enough guts to attack Donald Trump…whatever happened to Rick Perry?

    Perry isn’t dumb enough to pick a fight he knows he’ll lose.

    • #74
  15. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    MSJL: But Trump’s statements are thoughtless, not to make a point but to be provocative. This isn’t about being PC, it’s about simply insulting groups of people because you can get away with it. When he insulted Carly Fiorino’s looks, was that an example of bravely challenging the Left’s PC standards, or was he simply being an ass? …

    Trump was being an ass about Carly, and I don’t like what he’s doing with Cruz, although that might just pan out. It would have come up sooner or later and sooner is better.

    Trump has barely made any actual policy statements, but he does have his policies on a website. I’ll look at them when it becomes relevant. I know that any policy a candidate puts forth now will meet Democrats  and like any battle plan crumble at first encounter with the enemy. I like where he’s starting out. We are in the negotiation phase and strong bold statements,, combined with votes, equals a mandate. Of course Trump will have to compromise. But he’s not preemptively surrendering like so many scared Republicans have and do.  I like Cruz more than Trump, I also like all those “outsiders” dismiss. We are not going to convince each other here so I’m out. Nice to see one of you guys show some passion though!

    • #75
  16. MSJL Thatcher
    MSJL
    @MSJL

    Franco:

    It sounds as if you really care about what the Muslim world thinks of us and that we can change that via our immigration policies. Naive. You aren’t living in the real world.

    I care about what I think of myself as an American patriot, who loves his country and its values, and wants to see it remain a great land with great people that I can pass off to those who come later.

    Most of my grandparents came over in time for the first Red Scare that targeted Eastern European immigrants as all being a bunch of radicalized bohemian anarchists and communists, so maybe I am sympathetic to these folks because their real world was really hard.  They all stood in line, passed through immigration, and got naturalized.  They lived in ethnic communities and spoke their native language as much as they spoke English.  They were Catholics in a country that was mostly Protestant.  They worked their assess off to get accepted and stake a claim.  They raised a generation of patriots.

    I’m sick of this whining over this group and that group.  Let them all in or keep them all out?  We have a ton of options on the table; why do I have to accept the stupid ones?

    Maybe it is just naïve to think that the real world isn’t defined by straw men.  Aren’t these silly arguments supposed to be one of the things we can’t stand about Obama?

    • #76
  17. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    • #77
  18. Brian Watt Inactive
    Brian Watt
    @BrianWatt

    Franco:

    Brian Watt: I’m not your buddy. And you have a very selective moral compass. You may want to work on that.

    I didn’t say you were my buddy, I just called you ‘buddy’. And I’m so sorry I don’t meet your moral standards. I don’t take advice from strangers, only friends I trust.

    I’m so glad we got that cleared up. You may of course, refuse any advice hurled at you from any corner of the universe, but at the same token don’t try to impress me that the one who bribes is somehow morally superior to those he bribes or without guilt which even defies any legal standard. This sentiment of course is in line with most of the apologias for The Donald, who can of course insult the physically disabled, infer that a woman journalist who asked him a tough question must be menstruating and any number of other vulgarities.

    Those Trump supporters so offended by those of us who ridicule Trump have no leg to stand on. Trump’s insults have been applauded and emulated by his supporters here on Ricochet, so let’s not play this game that all of a sudden there are those who are now suddenly offended that this or the passing supposed “divisive” comment of Nikki Haley’s is something that should offend all of us in some universal way.

    Take your hypocrisy elsewhere like Breitbart.com where it will be embraced more readily.

    • #78
  19. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    Douglas:

    Freesmith:

    As far a Republican governor who has enough guts to attack Donald Trump…whatever happened to Rick Perry?

    Perry isn’t dumb enough to pick a fight he knows he’ll lose.

    You’ve forgotten the early primary process. Perry was dumb enough and he did lose.

    • #79
  20. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    Brian Watt,

    Check my comment #37 about divisiveness. I welcome it, I’m trying to point out that it is usually used against Republicans by Democrats and that divisiveness itself is part of the political world. When we disagree with Democrat plans and verbalize it, it’s divisive. When they disagree with us, they are “passionately opposed”. I hope you can see that at least.

    For someone so moral, I’d check your mind about assuming that Trump was referring to menstruation. He’s not that clever, that’s not his style. His style is more…did you see her face? Nothing subtle about that. But think what you wish. I’m not here to defend Trump, but I will argue against silly memes and false charges.

    I’m not at all offended by you or what you say. You don’t know me. We are not friends. How can I be offended, especially when you are wrong? I just laugh.

    I don’t need to identify with, or look up to my Presidents. I certainly don’t look up to Obama  nor did I look up to Clinton. I liked Bush but not a big admirer either. In fact, he was too dignified for me when he allowed himself to be attacked mercilessly by the left. He can turn his cheek, but not mine ..

    I believe our wonderful country is going to helenahandbasket, and I want something done. Fast. Now. No more BS from politicians.

    • #80
  21. Franco Member
    Franco
    @Franco

    A palate cleanser is needed here:

    https://youtu.be/ZU67cMWAtK0?list=PLwpjcMmHeSZOi72j_js_L7NiW7e62MruF

    • #81
  22. Whiskey Sam Inactive
    Whiskey Sam
    @WhiskeySam

    Jim Kearney: ·

    Klavan nailed Haley for the same thing.  He said that with Obama sneering at those he disagreed with you have one shot to respond.  We needed a fighter going after him instead of someone spouting platitudes.

    • #82
  23. Ball Diamond Ball Member
    Ball Diamond Ball
    @BallDiamondBall

    Franco:Wow. My writing is so much better when I’m promoted to the main feed. Thanks !

    A little Clairification goes a long way, no?

    • #83
  24. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Let’s clear something up: there is nothing illegitimate about Nikki Haley picking sides in the Republican primary/civil war. There is nothing illegitimate about her attacking Trump. This is policitics and it’s a rough game. That is, there is nothing illegitimate it if she’s acting as Nikki Haley.

    The trouble comes when she does these things while acting as the representative of the Republican Party, when she uses this opportunity given to the opposition to attack her own side instead.

    • #84
  25. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    What would we think if Cruz were giving this speech and he referred to the appeasing and ineffectual voices in Congress? I might agree with his assessment, but I would also think it a blow against his own team when he should be going after the other team. And I would criticize him for it.

    • #85
  26. Jamie Lockett Member
    Jamie Lockett
    @JamieLockett

    Ed G.:Let’s clear something up: there is nothing illegitimate about Nikki Haley picking sides in the Republican primary/civil war. There is nothing illegitimate about her attacking Trump. This is policitics and it’s a rough game. That is, there is nothing illegitimate it if she’s acting as Nikki Haley.

    The trouble comes when she does these things while acting as the representative of the Republican Party, when she uses this opportunity given to the opposition to attack her own side instead.

    Given that Trump is admittedly attacking the party, something his supporters shout to the rafters, isn’t the party justified in defending itself?

    • #86
  27. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Jamie Lockett: Given that Trump is admittedly attacking the party, something his supporters shout to the rafters, isn’t the party justified in defending itself?

    A reminder: This was a response to the State of the Union address.  Or so I am told.

    • #87
  28. Whiskey Sam Inactive
    Whiskey Sam
    @WhiskeySam

    Jamie Lockett:

    Ed G.:Let’s clear something up: there is nothing illegitimate about Nikki Haley picking sides in the Republican primary/civil war. There is nothing illegitimate about her attacking Trump. This is policitics and it’s a rough game. That is, there is nothing illegitimate it if she’s acting as Nikki Haley.

    The trouble comes when she does these things while acting as the representative of the Republican Party, when she uses this opportunity given to the opposition to attack her own side instead.

    Given that Trump is admittedly attacking the party, something his supporters shout to the rafters, isn’t the party justified in defending itself?

    The party can defend itself any other time against Trump.  The SOTU response is supposed to be a response to the SOTU (shocking I know).  Using it instead to flog their own side instead of going after the President is a manifestation of Trump Derangement Syndrome.  If you’re focused on combating Obama’s ideas and actions, you don’t waste your chance to address the nation on Trump.

    • #88
  29. Ed G. Member
    Ed G.
    @EdG

    Jamie Lockett:

    Ed G.:Let’s clear something up: there is nothing illegitimate about Nikki Haley picking sides in the Republican primary/civil war. There is nothing illegitimate about her attacking Trump. This is policitics and it’s a rough game. That is, there is nothing illegitimate it if she’s acting as Nikki Haley.

    The trouble comes when she does these things while acting as the representative of the Republican Party, when she uses this opportunity given to the opposition to attack her own side instead.

    Given that Trump is admittedly attacking the party, something his supporters shout to the rafters, isn’t the party justified in defending itself?

    Is Trump attacking the party? I thought he was attacking other candidates as is usually done in the context of a campaign. I agree than many of his attacks are out of place and over the top – he could make legitimate attacks without losing style points or effectiveness.

    Otherwise, no I don’t think the party (when acting as a party through one of its representatives) should be attacking particular teammates. we have a sanctioned context for such back and forth and the SOTU response is not it.

    • #89
  30. Rightfromthestart Coolidge
    Rightfromthestart
    @Rightfromthestart

    ‘Tune in to the Michael Medved Show. It’ll warm your non-divisive heart.’

    LOL, I stopped listening for exactly that reason , all fights are to be put off until another time, this is not the time , this will never be the time.

    I’m sure Medved is a nice man but he doesn’t have a fighting bone in his body. He’s been described as a notorious squish with a consultant’s mentality.

    • #90
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