A Separation of Church and Scouts

 
pro deo et patria

An old-style “God & Country” scouting pin.

My congregation will not renew the Charter for the Cub Scout Pack that we have hosted for many years. This is a decision that took us over two years to reach. It makes me sad and angry to see this relationship come to an end. G-d does not like broken relationships. It was sin that caused the broken relationship between G-d and Adam, and our relationships with Him are broken by sin. In His mercy, He gave up His own Son to die so that a way was made possible to restore the broken relationship. And, though our hope rests in the restoration we look forward to, we still must live in a world that is corrupted by sin. We live in a tangle of broken relationships.

You might think that a Cub Scout Pack (generally, for boys aged 11 or less) would not be affected in the same way as a Boy Scout Troop, but the Left divides — they break relationships — and the Left has split our church from the Scouts and brought us to this new parting of ways. To understand why that is, you have to understand what the controversy is about.

This painful decision on the part of my congregation is not about the boys. Nor is it about the Pack leaders, nor any particular broken relationship among the friends and neighbors who have benefitted by having the Cub Scout program available here for their sons. It is certainly not about homosexuality, or homosexual scouts, or even homosexual candidates for scout leadership positions.

Rather, it is about the message of the Church. The Church must proclaim the Gospel. The Good News that Jesus our Lord and Savior has made a way for broken relationships to be restored; that is our message. We must be able to proclaim this message in all its fullness.

By “fullness” I mean the Bible. The whole Bible story, of how G-d deals with His people, and how He took an astounding path in order to restore your relationship with Him.

The Parting

We received a charter renewal letter from the Cubscout pack. The renewal of the charter is an annual thing that has been routine for a very long time. The form changed this year. Among other changes, this provision was added:

Chartered organizations must not use the Scouting program to pursue any objectives related to political or social advocacy, including partisan politics, support or opposition to government action or controversial legal, political, or social issues or causes.

Shame on the Boy Scouts of America. Not content to take a side in the culture war, they now want to limit chartering organizations from taking sides in it as well.

I don’t think we have ever had cub scouts in uniform do any activity of the church. The only time they are asked to come to church in uniform is once each year for Scout Sunday, where they are recognized. We typically do not make a great deal of Scout Sunday, but recognition, and public prayer for the program and its leaders and the kids is a good thing.

However, we cannot cease “social advocacy,” nor can we avoid anything “controversial.”

Some might say that we could slice the issue real thin and pretend that we could still get along. Cub Scouts pledge to “do my best,” which everyone can subscribe to. The part about keeping “morally straight” does not come in until they reach Boy Scouts. But that is not the issue.

The issue is that the BSA has compromised our ability to proclaim that there is such a thing as sin, and that the Bible clearly identifies sins. The Boy Scouts of America have, very publicly, sided with the faction that says that what the Bible has to say about sexual sins does not apply to modern life. We reject that message. We cannot allow that message to get mixed up with our Christian message. Muddled messaging hurts our ability to teach the Gospel. In this world of confusion, we must maintain a clear proclamation of the Good News.

This is bad for the boys. It would be better to retain the relationship, if the welfare of the kids were the only concern. The Church wants what is best for the boys, but this change is not good for the boys. As such, we have to take care to preserve the clarity of our message.

The Message

If you understand that this is about the message of the church, it then becomes clear that it is not much about homosexuality. Homosexual sex acts are just one sinful act among many. It is the Left that has chosen to make homosexuality the current cultural and spiritual battlefield. Some of us tried to warn our fellows, but conservative Christians are genial and generous people, and did not rally to the fight early enough to mount a winning defense. Now it appears that this is a lost battle, like easy divorce and casual sex were lost. The onslaught against the family and against the Gospel continue.

Traditional Christian morality remains the best way for G-d’s children to live, but our culture is embracing and celebrating sexual sins, and now preaches that there is no such thing as sexual sin. The Left would have us believe that the only sins are violence, intolerance, and hypocrisy. In the church, we continue to proclaim that sin is sin, that the Bible explains sin, and sin separates us from G-d. We are bound to tell about sin, because if you do not understand that you are a sinner and that it is sin that separates you from G-d, then you cannot understand why you need a Savior. We are called to reach out in love to sinners, to call them to repentance and help them to find peace and reconciliation through Jesus.

We must not let our message get muddled with a message that says that sexual sins do not matter. The implication of that message would be that the Bible is not reliable for spiritual guidance.

Legal Issues

There is another matter that we, as Elders of our church, have had to consider: the legal environment that appears to offer potential legal risks to churches that continue to charter a Scout Troop or Pack. We anticipate legal challenges to churches that charter troops, that will be contending that the troop is subject to public accommodation law. We doubt if our own jurisdiction will be selected, but other nearby courts will be welcoming to such challenges.

We recently received a bulletin from Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod headquarters that reported on a legal investigative task force. It arrived the same week that the new charter document came from the BSA Council office. It included this:

… it appears that the law is growing stronger for those who might be in a position to file suit for discrimination against the BSA, and, by extension, against chartering organizations, including LCMS congregations.

Though the legal risk to our own congregation is small, it is not negligible. The likelihood of such lawsuits makes the messaging problem worse, because we know that the Leftist media will report on one side of these cases, and they will not be reporting on our side.

We have not yet decided whether to have one final Scout Sunday. Just thinking about it makes me sad. But we will part ways with the Scouts. They will have no trouble finding a new home, but it will be likely that the new chartering agency will be one of those leftish churches who are comfortable with compromises about the Bible. We wish them well.

I am confident that the boys will continue to learn useful skills and self-reliance and the manly virtues that are wrapped up in scouting. They will enjoy the outdoors and good fellowship. I know this because I know some of the Scout leaders. They are good men. Some of them are members of our congregation, and they will stick with the Pack, and the Troop, wherever they go.

And so the Left divides us. The Girl Scouts are next.

There are 162 comments.

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  1. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    MJBubba: The Girl Scouts are next.

    Bubba, the Girl Scouts fell a long time ago.

    • #1
  2. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    I posted two years ago about the Scouts:

    http://ricochet.com/archives/separation-of-church-and-scouts/

    • #2
  3. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    It’s very sad. I was a Brownie leader, and I loved every minute of it. But Girl Scouts has adopted the Left’s worship of themselves, and I don’t think I would want to do it today.

    It’s too bad. What I loved about Scouts for kids was that it was the one and last place they could be their whole selves–God, family, country. A child could be free to be as complete a person at Scouts as at home. And it was pure fun–no pressure. For kids who needed friendship and acceptance, who wanted to be silly and laugh out loud, it was nearly a perfect social environment.

    The Left espouses individual freedom, but it silences people to such an extent that it is more oppressive than the society it loathes.  (And that was probably the understatement of the year.)

    • #3
  4. Pencilvania Inactive
    Pencilvania
    @Pencilvania

    Insidious is the only word that comes to my mind. I refer to leftists. And — I apologize to some here — lawyers.  There are not enough good lawyers.

    I take all your points with complete agreement, MJ. My son’s an Eagle Scout, and my 2 grandsons are just starting out in scouting.  I’ve seen many Scout Sundays.

    I feel that simply refusing to renew the charter is giving in. Have you asked the troop leaders if they would leave BSA but stick with the church, and re-form as a church-sponsored boys’ group?

    • #4
  5. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    • #5
  6. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Time to start a new group for Christian boys?

    • #6
  7. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Bryan G. Stephens:So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    • #7
  8. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    I was kind of hoping Mormons would dump scouts, which would have been a severe blow, since we charter a high percentage of troops.  Scouts are our official boy youth program.  Scout leaders are chosen by the church, however, so that isn’t so much an issue.  If scouts come after the church for anything, however, I suspect we will dump them. The organization deserves to die when it strays so far from its mission and starts to contradict the Bible.

    • #8
  9. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Arahant:

    Bryan G. Stephens:So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    I understood that. I did not understand their reasoning.

    • #9
  10. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Merina Smith:I was kind of hoping Mormons would dump scouts, which would have been a severe blow, since we charter a high percentage of troops. Scouts are our official boy youth program. Scout leaders are chosen by the church, however, so that isn’t so much an issue. If scouts come after the church for anything, however, I suspect we will dump them. The organization deserves to die when it strays so far from its mission and starts to contradict the Bible.

    I think I understand what you are saying. It is a concern I share. Better to not get involved with Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts at all if they are encouraging and preaching behavior that is self-destructive.

    • #10
  11. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Bryan G. Stephens:So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    Here is the lead sentence from the key paragraph from the Chairman of our Board of Elders.

    We are sorry that the national offices of the BSA has recently, publicly, instituted changes in the BSA’s leadership vetting procedures that would allow for the service of Pack, Troop and Council leaders who openly exhibit life styles that the LCMS must call examples of defiant and unrepentant sin, contrary to the ordinances God.

    This is the key reason.   By continuing to charter under the current circumstances, we would be sending a message that our teachings on sin do not really matter all that much to us.   This conflict in messaging is something that we allowed while things were quiet, even though we have discussed problems with the Boy Scouts for many years.   When we began as a chartering agent in the early 1990s (shortly after this congregation was launched) there was some grumbling by the ardent Gnesio-Lutherans, but the problems were considered to be small in comparison to the great benefits of a scouting program.

    Recent events have changed the situation.   The very high level of public awareness of the way the BSA caved on “morally straight” makes it untenable for us to continue as a chartering sponsor.

    This is about our message.   Our message is the Gospel.

    • #11
  12. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Amy Schley:

    MJBubba: The Girl Scouts are next.

    Bubba, the Girl Scouts fell a long time ago.

    We know.   Girl Scouts are worse in some ways.   Local Troops and the Council for our region are still solid.   They have not been in the media spotlight.

    However, now that we have acted with respect to the Boy Scouts, we will act in a similar fashion with every group that we charter.   The charter for the Girl Scouts will come up for renewal at the first of June.

    We will part ways.

    The Left divides us.

    I hate this.

    • #12
  13. Quietpi Member
    Quietpi
    @Quietpi

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Arahant:

    Bryan G. Stephens:So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    I understood that. I did not understand their reasoning.

    Bryan, it’s because a condition being laid on the sponsoring organization, the church, is that it is forbidden to teach boys about morals.  The Boy Scouts have basically thrown in the towel on morals.  They have, virtually by definition, ceased even to be the Boy Scouts.  They have negated significant portions of both the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

    And more, this new paragraph opens the door wide to the Scouts becoming active preachers of “another gospel:’ that of secularism. And socialism. Just as liberals have always done, if they don’t want something openly discussed, they declare to be political, and therefore barred from open discourse.  We just have to accept what they preach, and if we dare to speak up, we can – and will – be sued.

    This from an Eagle Scout, the son of an Eagle Scout, and a former District Executive.  BSA is/was the Big Kahuna.  If they can subdue BSA, and they have, then they can subdue anyone.  And they will.

    My heart is very heavy.

    • #13
  14. hokiecon Inactive
    hokiecon
    @hokiecon

    As an Eagle Scout, I am not proud of the direction the BSA is headed and agree with your concerns. But I have a problem—maybe I’m just not understanding correctly—with some of your language:

    MJBubba: Homosexual sex acts are just one sinful act among many.

    Are you assuming homosexuality is a choice, and not just a genetic defect or variation? I’m pointing this out because it’s eerily similar of assumed truths the Left uses all the time. See: white privilege, identity politics, climate change, rape culture, et al. We dont’ know whether homosexuality is a choice. I’m just curious why we are pretending that it is.

    If it matters, I am personally opposed to SSM, but NOT for religious reasons. I believe the definition of marriage falls between a sexually complementary couple.

    • #14
  15. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Arahant:Time to start a new group for Christian boys?

    Maybe.   We will talk about that soon.   I don’t know if we will.

    There are some choices.   One of our sister congregations has launched a very successful Trail Life Troop.

    http://www.traillifeusa.com/

    Other choices are available:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/18/9-faith-based-and-secular-alternatives-to-the-boy-scouts-of-america/

    • #15
  16. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Pencilvania:…

    I feel that simply refusing to renew the charter is giving in. Have you asked the troop leaders if they would leave BSA but stick with the church, and re-form as a church-sponsored boys’ group?

    When I spoke with them several months ago they were not interested.   They have a lot invested in Boy Scouts, family traditions, and the Trail Life brand is still in development.   I cannot disagree with their decision.   They will be able to find a new chartering organization.   This congregation is located in a relatively prosperous purple suburb of a blue city in a red state.

    • #16
  17. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Mormons have made it clear that we retain a Biblical understanding of “morally straight”, and I am certain that Scouts will be taught this within the church program, whatever the charter says.  I think the Scout organization will be very loathe to go after Mormon troops because, as I said above, they would lose a WHOLE lot of business.  It has always bugged me that local congregations are required to pay scout dues for every boy of age in the congregations whether they are active in Scouting or not.  That can amount to a lot of money for us to raise every year, but we do it.  I’m not all that excited about contributing to the organization any more, however.  My prediction would be that within five years, Mormons and Scouts part ways.  It is too bad, but as you say, Bubba, leftism ruins everything it touches.

    • #17
  18. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    hokiecon: Are you assuming homosexuality is a choice, and not just a genetic defect or variation? I’m pointing this out because it’s eerily similar of assumed truths the Left uses all the time. See: white privilege, identity politics, climate change, rape culture, et al. We dont’ know whether homosexuality is a choice. I’m just curious why we are pretending that it is.

    Not to derail this conversation too much, but in the end, whether a sexual orientation is chosen is somewhat beside the point. The homosexual sex act (along with plenty of heterosexual sexual acts, e.g. adultery and fornication) is both a choice and sin.

    • #18
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Quietpi:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Arahant:

    Bryan G. Stephens:So what did they not renew the charter over, exactly? Our Church is quite conservative in its make up, and our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    I understood that. I did not understand their reasoning.

    Bryan, it’s because a condition being laid on the sponsoring organization, the church, is that it is forbidden to teach boys about morals. The Boy Scouts have basically thrown in the towel on morals. They have, virtually by definition, ceased even to be the Boy Scouts. They have negated significant portions of both the Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

    And more, this new paragraph opens the door wide to the Scouts becoming active preachers of “another gospel:’ that of secularism. And socialism. Just as liberals have always done, if they don’t want something openly discussed, they declare to be political, and therefore barred from open discourse. We just have to accept what they preach, and if we dare to speak up, we can – and will – be sued.

    This from an Eagle Scout, the son of an Eagle Scout, and a former District Executive. BSA is/was the Big Kahuna. If they can subdue BSA, and they have, then they can subdue anyone. And they will.

    My heart is very heavy.

    And yet, our troop continues to teach morals and character.

    I am an Eagle Scout and ASM. Most of Scouting does not even touch on homosexuality. I do not see that one thing as the end of Scouting.

    Of course, I don’t see homosexuality as an orientation as a sin. And, our Troop is not allowing (open) homosexuals as leaders.

    And life goes on.

    • #19
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Merina Smith:Mormons have made it clear that we retain a Biblical understanding of “morally straight”, and I am certain that Scouts will be taught this within the church program, whatever the charter says. I think the Scout organization will be very loathe to go after Mormon troops because, as I said above, they would lose a WHOLE lot of business. It has always bugged me that local congregations are required to pay scout dues for every boy of age in the congregations whether they are active in Scouting or not. That can amount to a lot of money for us to raise every year, but we do it. I’m not all that excited about contributing to the organization any more, however. My prediction would be that within five years, Mormons and Scouts part ways. It is too bad, but as you say, Bubba, leftism ruins everything it touches.

    The Scouts are clearly leaving things up to local troops as much as possible.

    • #20
  21. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    hokiecon:As an Eagle Scout, I am not proud of the direction the BSA is headed and agree with your concerns. But I have a problem—maybe I’m just not understanding correctly—with some of your language:

    MJBubba: Homosexual sex acts are just one sinful act among many.

    Are you assuming homosexuality is a choice, and not just a genetic defect or variation? …

    We dont’ know whether homosexuality is a choice. I’m just curious why we are pretending that it is.

    Sex acts are a choice.   There are all sorts of sinful sex acts.   All sex outside of marriage is sin.   Homosexual sex acts are specifically called out in the Old Testament and the New Testament as sins.

    Homosexual orientation appears to be caused by a complex mix of genetic and environmental effects, and the complex mix is not the same for each person so inclined.   I view such inclination as a heavy burden that must be borne by the persons so affected, if they are to pursue a relationship  with G-d.   There are a few struggling individuals that I pray for.

    Specifically relevant to this issue is that the Boy Scouts, while preserving the scout pledge to be “morally straight,” now very publicly require all allow Councils, Troops and Packs to accept out homosexual scouts and leaders, without regard to whether they are chaste.

    Edited.  See #27.

    • #21
  22. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    MJBubba:Specifically relevant to this issue is that the Boy Scouts, while preserving the scout pledge to be “morally straight,” now very publicly require all Councils, Troops and Packs to accept out homosexual scouts and leaders, without regard to whether they are chaste.

    They do not require that. They have left the choice up to the units.

    • #22
  23. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Quietpi:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Arahant:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    … our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    I understood that. I did not understand their reasoning.

    Bryan, it’s because a condition being laid on the sponsoring organization, the church, is that it is forbidden to teach boys about morals. The Boy Scouts have basically thrown in the towel on morals. …

    And more, this new paragraph opens the door wide to the Scouts becoming active preachers of “another gospel:’ that of secularism. …

    We just have to accept what they preach, and if we dare to speak up, we can – and will – be sued.

    And yet, our troop continues to teach morals and character.

    I am an Eagle Scout and ASM. Most of Scouting does not even touch on homosexuality. I do not see that one thing as the end of Scouting.

    Of course, I don’t see homosexuality as an orientation as a sin. And, our Troop is not allowing (open) homosexuals as leaders.

    And life goes on.

    Your Troop is now in violation of its charter.   Read the new document that came from your Council.   Depending on your location, if your congregation is located in an area with non-discrimination law that names sexual orientation as a protected class, you are running a legal risk.

    • #23
  24. Al Sparks Thatcher
    Al Sparks
    @AlSparks

    MJBubba:

    Chartered organizations must not use the Scouting program to pursue any objectives related to political or social advocacy, including partisan politics, support or opposition to government action or controversial legal, political, or social issues or causes. Shame on the Boy Scouts of America.

    This seems to be what gets your goat.  Further along there’s mention of running afoul of the public accommodation laws, legal battles, etc which may be the real reason they didn’t renew the charter.  But that seems vague to me.

    The above statement shouldn’t concern your church, since the operative words are “use the Scouting program….”

    Your church is not constrained in engaging in whatever social advocacy it wants under that agreement.  They just can’t use the the “Scouting program” to do it.  I don’t see that it affects the individual members of scouts that are also members of your church.

    I have no dog in this hunt.  And yes the BSA has changed, and if your church is uncomfortable continuing to associate with them, so be it.

    But the reasons seem manufactured.

    • #24
  25. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Al Sparks:

    MJBubba:

    Chartered organizations must not use the Scouting program to pursue any objectives related to political or social advocacy, including partisan politics, support or opposition to government action or controversial legal, political, or social issues or causes. Shame on the Boy Scouts of America.

    This seems to be what gets your goat. Further along there’s mention of running afoul of the public accommodation laws, legal battles, etc which may be the real reason they didn’t renew the charter. But that seems vague to me.

    The above statement shouldn’t concern your church, since the operative words are “use the Scouting program….”

    Your church is not constrained in engaging in whatever social advocacy it wants under that agreement. They just can’t use the the “Scouting program” to do it. I don’t see that it affects the individual members of scouts that are also members of your church.

    I have no dog in this hunt. And yes the BSA has changed, and if your church is uncomfortable continuing to associate with them, so be it.

    But the reasons seem manufactured.

    Answers this pretty well. I live in Cobb County by the way. The Atlanta Area Council is the strongest BSA council in the nation in some regards.

    Your reading of the above and “lawsuit” is the sort of thing that stops people from doing anything, fear of being sued.

    True character, true faith means taking some risks.

    • #25
  26. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    MJBubba:

    hokiecon:As an Eagle Scout, I am not proud of the direction the BSA is headed and agree with your concerns. But I have a problem—maybe I’m just not understanding correctly—with some of your language:

    MJBubba: Homosexual sex acts are just one sinful act among many.

    Are you assuming homosexuality is a choice, and not just a genetic defect or variation? …

    We dont’ know whether homosexuality is a choice. I’m just curious why we are pretending that it is.

    Sex acts are a choice. There are all sorts of sinful sex acts. All sex outside of marriage is sin. Homosexual sex acts are specifically called out in the Old Testament and the New Testament as sins.

    Homosexual orientation appears to be caused by a complex mix of genetic and environmental effects, and the complex mix is not the same for each person so inclined. I view such inclination as a heavy burden that must be borne by the persons so affected, if they are to pursue a relationship with G-d. There are a few struggling individuals that I pray for.

    Specifically relevant to this issue is that the Boy Scouts, while preserving the scout pledge to be “morally straight,” now very publicly require all Councils, Troops and Packs to accept out homosexual scouts and leaders, without regard to whether they are chaste.

    • #26
  27. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    MJBubba:

    MJBubba:

    hokiecon:As an Eagle Scout, I am not proud of the direction the BSA is headed and agree with your concerns. But I have a problem—maybe I’m just not understanding correctly—with some of your language:

    MJBubba: Homosexual sex acts are just one sinful act among many.

    Are you assuming homosexuality is a choice, and not just a genetic defect or variation? …

    We dont’ know whether homosexuality is a choice. I’m just curious why we are pretending that it is.

    Sex acts are a choice. There are all sorts of sinful sex acts. All sex outside of marriage is sin. Homosexual sex acts are specifically called out in the Old Testament and the New Testament as sins.

    Homosexual orientation appears to be caused by a complex mix of genetic and environmental effects, and the complex mix is not the same for each person so inclined. I view such inclination as a heavy burden that must be borne by the persons so affected, if they are to pursue a relationship with G-d. There are a few struggling individuals that I pray for.

    Specifically relevant to this issue is that the Boy Scouts, while preserving the scout pledge to be “morally straight,” now very publicly require all allow Councils, Troops and Packs to accept out homosexual scouts and leaders, without regard to whether they are chaste.

    The message about what it means to be “morally straight” was muddled.   Several troops now have gays in leadership positions.

    • #27
  28. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Difference between “allow” and require. The Troop or Pack Committee can choose not to “allow”

    • #28
  29. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    MJBubba:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Quietpi:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    Arahant:

    Bryan G. Stephens:

    … our Troop is still chartered.

    Help me understand.

    It was the Elders of the Church, not the Boy Scouts, who are not renewing, not signing the revised charter.

    I understood that. I did not understand their reasoning.

    Bryan, it’s because a condition being laid on the sponsoring organization, the church, is that it is forbidden to teach boys about morals. The Boy Scouts have basically thrown in the towel on morals. …

    And more, this new paragraph opens the door wide to the Scouts becoming active preachers of “another gospel:’ that of secularism. …

    We just have to accept what they preach, and if we dare to speak up, we can – and will – be sued.

    And yet, our troop continues to teach morals and character.

    I am an Eagle Scout and ASM. Most of Scouting does not even touch on homosexuality. I do not see that one thing as the end of Scouting.

    Of course, I don’t see homosexuality as an orientation as a sin. And, our Troop is not allowing (open) homosexuals as leaders.

    And life goes on.

    Your Troop is now in violation of its charter. Read the new document that came from your Council. Depending on your location, if your congregation is located in an area with non-discrimination law that names sexual orientation as a protected class, you are running a legal risk.

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  30. MJBubba Inactive
    MJBubba
    @MJBubba

    Bryan G. Stephens:Difference between “allow” and require. The Troop or Pack Committee can choose not to “allow”

    Bryan G.S.,  you are correct.   I edited my comments above.

    The chartering congregation will not have to accept Troop or Pack leaders that do not meet their reasonable standards.   There are two issues.   The first is the muddled messaging.   The second issue is the legal risk, which depends on where you are.

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