Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Kasich Got the Worst Line of the Debate

 

I was, until recently, positively disposed towards Governor John Kasich. Sure, he made some compromises about Obamacare that cast doubt on his conservative credentials. Sure, he mentions his faith too many times in order to justify some executive decisions. Sure, he got lucky — as Donald Trump says — when he struck oil in Ohio (though he also deserves some credit for getting on the right side of the shale revolution unlike, say, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo). But overall, I liked his experience and track record.

But then, Kasich disappointed me on Tuesday night with what may be one of the worst lines ever spoken in a debate: “Philosophy doesn’t work when you run something.”

Ouch. Double ouch. The context is largely unimportant — he was sparring with Cruz about bailouts — but I think Kasich just lost whatever chance he had.

If philosophy does not matter, what are we discussing here? Why are we even having these debates? Let’s just choose the person with the longest resume. That, of course, would work to Kasich’s advantage, but it would not suit the voters who very much want to hear about philosophy.

Kasich is wrong about philosophy, which underpins everything. What he should have said is that dogmatism does not work when you run something, a line that would have found more sympathy in the audience. But now, we are left wondering: did he mean that philosophy — any philosophy — should be discarded in a crisis? Or did he mean dogma? The first should disqualify him because it would elevate pragmatism to highest virtue of leadership, which means a country simply muddles along without direction. The second would be unattractive but less objectionable because in our system, nothing can be achieved without compromise.

Ideally, you need both the resume and the philosophy. Somebody should tell Kasich.

(Philosophy had a decidedly bad night in the debate. At another moment, Rubio said that “Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.” I am not even sure that Rubio’s statement is true. The second sentence contradicts the first one. If we did have many more welders, at a certain point they probably would not make more money than philosophers.)

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  1. Arahant Member

    Marion Evans: Kasich is wrong about philosophy. It works and it underpins everything. What he should have said is that dogmatism does not work when you run something, a line that would have found more sympathy in the audience. But now, we are left wondering: did he mean that philosophy, any philosophy, should be discarded in a crisis? or did he mean dogmatism?

    Probably he meant dogmatism, but it doesn’t matter what he meant to say. L’esprit d’escalier doesn’t count in these debates. I would have voted for him for President back when his budget in Congress was getting more votes than Bush 41’s. Now, his time has probably passed.

    • #1
    • November 11, 2015, at 6:56 AM PST
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  2. Victor Tango Kilo Member

    What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar. We need more welders and less philosophers.”

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    • #2
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:10 AM PST
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  3. Arahant Member

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    We’ll have to make sure Son of Spengler knows about this. He’ll school Marco with a song.

    • #3
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:13 AM PST
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  4. Illiniguy Member
    Illiniguy Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    But think what we could create if we had philosopher/welders.

    Watchdog.org has a series of blog posts (here’s #21) on the ballooning expansion of Medicaid in Ohio and the damage it’s going to do. That alone is reason enough to give Kasich the boot.

    • #4
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:16 AM PST
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  5. katievs Member
    katievs Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Kasich comes across as confused and befuddled. Carly Fiorina, on the other hand, who majored in philosophy, is sharp and clear.

    • #5
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:17 AM PST
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  6. Illiniguy Member
    Illiniguy Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    I noticed that as well. But if a grammatical slip is all we can find to complain about, then he had a pretty good night.

    • #6
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:18 AM PST
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  7. I Walton Member

    Kasich is a good gov, he managed the budge committee with skill, he was a hawk on the Armed services committee. Good resume, full life, he could have retired with dignity but, and this is what bothered me back when he was chairman of the armed services committee, he’s arrogant, abounds in confidence and determination but is much into himself. That helps when you have power and want to get things done, but he’s from a different age he doesn’t want to get done the things we need done.

    • #7
    • November 11, 2015, at 7:33 AM PST
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  8. The (apathetic) King Prawn Member

    Rick Wilson nailed it by saying Kasich seems to have been created in a lab to piss off modern primary voters.

    • #8
    • November 11, 2015, at 8:35 AM PST
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  9. Concretevol Thatcher

    He lost me on the first debate when he was defending the Iran deal. He is running as a Washington insider in and outsiders primary.

    • #9
    • November 11, 2015, at 8:44 AM PST
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  10. The (apathetic) King Prawn Member

    Concretevol:He lost me on the first debate when he was defending the Iran deal.He is running as a Washington insider in and outsiders primary.

    Someone had to do it. Kind of glad it was him actually. It costs me nothing to disdain him.

    • #10
    • November 11, 2015, at 8:49 AM PST
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  11. donald todd Inactive

    Kasich was not on my short list although if he managed to secure the nomination I would probably vote for him; but you are right, I don’t care that his father was a mailman. It does not mean squat to me. His father could have been king and that would not mean squat to me either.

    I assume that he is history, even if he is not yet aware of it.

    (I long for the days of Scott Walker, but then I sometimes am a glutton for punishment.)

    • #11
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:12 AM PST
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  12. zepplinmike Inactive

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    The less/fewer confusion has become my biggest grammar pet peeve in the last couple of years (even more than the misuse of the word “literally”). Once the proper usage was pointed out to me, I couldn’t not hear or see it frequently at work, online, and on TV.

    • #12
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:22 AM PST
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  13. Pencilvania Inactive

    When Kasich was a commentator on FoxNews years ago I remember really liking him, his enthusiasm & genuineness. I don’t know if he changed or I did, but I have no love for the guy now.

    • #13
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:25 AM PST
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  14. Spin Coolidge
    Spin Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    If I got anything out of Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism, it is that the one thing that marks a Progressive is a hatred for anything other than that which works. No theory, no isms, not ideology, no principle. That is all thrown out in favor of just doing something. That’s fine if you are digging a hole, or chopping wood. But anything much bigger than simple tasks, and you need to isms to guide you. Kasich demonstrated to me that he nothing more than a Republican Progressive. All that matters is that he did something. It doesn’t matter the effect of the something.

    • #14
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:29 AM PST
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  15. The Cloaked Gaijin Member

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    Pfff. He said it in English instead of Spanish. That’s all I care about.

    • #15
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM PST
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  16. Paul Erickson Member

    Spin:If I got anything out of Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism, it is that the one thing that marks a Progressive is a hatred for anything other than that which works. No theory, no isms, not ideology, no principle. That is all thrown out in favor of just doing something. That’s fine if you are digging a hole, or chopping wood. But anything much bigger than simple tasks, and you need to isms to guide you. Kasich demonstrated to me that he nothing more than a Republican Progressive. All that matters is that he did something. It doesn’t matter the effect of the something.

    Agree. I think Jonah goes a step further, though. Progressives claim to only want to do what works and that they are free of idology. But in fact they are completely driven by ideology. (Case in point: current POTUS who would raise tax on capital gains even knowing it would reduce revenues, because of fairness.)

    • #16
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:37 AM PST
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  17. Addiction Is A Choice Member

    Spin:If I got anything out of Goldberg’s book Liberal Fascism, it is that the one thing that marks a Progressive is a hatred for anything other than that which works. No theory, no isms, not ideology, no principle. That is all thrown out in favor of just doing something. That’s fine if you are digging a hole, or chopping wood. But anything much bigger than simple tasks, and you need to isms to guide you. Kasich demonstrated to me that he nothing more than a Republican Progressive. All that matters is that he did something. It doesn’t matter the effect of the something.

    Bingo!!!

    • #17
    • November 11, 2015, at 9:59 AM PST
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  18. Lucy Pevensie Inactive

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    Except I don’t really think we need fewer philosophers. What we need is fewer Women’s Studies and Peace Studies majors.

    • #18
    • November 11, 2015, at 10:59 AM PST
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  19. Brandon Beckstrom Member

    Nothing is as bad as his line from the first debate, when he suggested we provide the masses with ‘cheese’ or ‘Christmas pants.’ That was embarrassing. I’m still not sure what ‘Christmas pants’ are.

    • #19
    • November 11, 2015, at 11:02 AM PST
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  20. RabbitHoleRedux Inactive

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    Ha ha! Marco did that well, did he? ;-)

    • #20
    • November 11, 2015, at 11:09 AM PST
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  21. Severely Ltd. Inactive

    RabbitHoleRedux:

    V the K:What really bugged me about Rube’s line was the grammar.

    Fewer, Marco. Fewer philosophers.

    Ha ha! Marco did that well, did he? ;-)

    No, there were other things. Like one sock was midnight indigo and the other was dark navy.

    • #21
    • November 11, 2015, at 11:46 AM PST
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  22. Larry Koler Inactive

    katievs:Kasich comes across as confused and befuddled. Carly Fiorina, on the other hand, who majored in philosophy, is sharp and clear.

    Brilliant! Very interesting.

    • #22
    • November 11, 2015, at 12:38 PM PST
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  23. Leigh Member

    What Kasich meant is worse than what he actually said. Because the subtext was: This conservative principle is all very well in theory, but in the real world it hurts actual people.

    Now I recognize that a rigid ideology can sometimes have unpredictable consequences and hurt people in unintended ways. But that’s at the heart of conservatism as a philosophy! It’s not some paper system, it’s an approach to governance.

    In his case, it’s a lazy dodge: a refusal to examine how his policies actually affect real people, compared to conservative. He uses this same dodge on Medicaid too. And it’s destructive, because it’s precisely the kind of attack on fellow-Republicans that the Left loves.

    • #23
    • November 11, 2015, at 1:06 PM PST
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  24. ctlaw Coolidge

    I know Ben Carson was a neurosurgeon, not a neurologist. However, somebody needs to give Kasich a thorough mental exam.

    While speaking Kasich has very shaky gestures.

    Then, upon concluding a statement, he has a long series of odd facial movements such as lip smacking.

    According to Dr. Google, these seem characteristic of a real problem.

    • #24
    • November 12, 2015, at 4:19 AM PST
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  25. Arahant Member

    ctlaw: According to Dr. Google, these seem characteristic of a real problem.

    Revive his campaign through the sympathy vote?

    • #25
    • November 12, 2015, at 4:29 AM PST
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