Rubio/Fiorina: Does it Matter Who Leads the Ticket?

 

Fiorina-RubioMany said during the debate last night that they would love to see a Rubio/Fiorina ticket or a Fiorina/Rubio ticket, and they didn’t care how the ticket was ordered. Does it matter who leads the ticket? I believe it does. The best order for that ticket would be Rubio/Fiorina for the following reasons:

  1. Fiorina would be much more effective attacking Hillary from the VP slot. Doing so from the top of the ticket would risk making her look mean and unpresidential to all those mushy independents out there — the people that want everyone to play nice. Nobody is too concerned if the #2 person on the ticket goes into attack mode. Besides, I think Carly would be more effective attacking Hillary, and that would allow Rubio to play the forward-looking optimist. Although it would be fun to see Carly debate Hillary, we saw last night that Marco could easily handle her.
  2. Fiorina’s CEO experience would make a fat target for the Dems, who would accuse her of being a heartless Richie Rita laying off thousands of common folk while wiping her feet on the poor. They did it effectively to Romney and they can do it to Fiorina. Those attacks fall flat against a VP candidate.
  3. I believe the Dems will have a very hard time mounting a successful smear campaign against Rubio. The stuff they’ve tried so far via their media organs has been very weak tea. Barring some hideous unknown scandal, they won’t be able to lay a glove on the young, handsome, Hispanic, middle-class Senator.
  4. Fiorina is not much younger than Hillary. Nominate her and you lose the youth advantage Rubio brings. It would be harder for Carly to appeal to the kids.
  5. The Dems would attack Fiorina’s complete lack of political experience. I know it doesn’t matter to some people, but it will matter to a lot independents. Attacking Rubio’s short career in the Senate doesn’t really fly given the current occupant of the White House.

I love Carly and would love to see her on the ticket, but I really think she would be better in the number-two slot. No matter who gets the nomination, they could do much worse than Carly. If she won’t take the job, give it to Susanna Martinez. We need a woman on the ticket to balance Hillary who, despite my doubts, says she’s a woman.

Published in Elections, General, Politics
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  1. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    I like her too. But she is a long shot for VP.

    If Rubio makes it, and he is on trajectory, his VP will be Rob Portman or John Kasich. Probably Portman. Rubio will need some one who can debate, attack, and win Ohio, Pa and maybe Wisconsin. Both Portman and Kasich can. Portman was a finalist for VP under Romney.

    Carly for Sec. of Defense, maybe.

    • #1
  2. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    Goodness, JM, I hope you’re wrong about that. Kasich and Portman are the last people I’d want considered for VP.

    • #2
  3. David Sussman Contributor
    David Sussman
    @DaveSussman

    Like many on Rico, I have been calling for boxing the Fiorina/Rubio ticket for several months now. I agree with the post, especially #1. and would love to see Fiorina on the national stage. She is the most articulate candidate on the dais and would be a very welcome counter against Hillary’s continual reference to her own lady parts.

    Marco could fall into the Lazio trap very quickly, as much as I hate to say this, we already know that any male countering Hillary, referring to her as a liar, and telling the low info voters the unsavory truths would be deemed sexist.

    • #3
  4. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    I like Rubio/Fiorina too, Frozen Chosen, for all the reasons you name.

    • #4
  5. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    #3 is a big deal. Rubio is proof positive that not all Republicans are old, white, and rich. I don’t know if I’m there on Carly for VP, but she’s definitely on the short list.

    • #5
  6. James Madison Member
    James Madison
    @JamesMadison

    Not pushing Portman or Kasich – just do’in the math.

    Some don’t care about winning. I do. And I understand those who prefer to make a statement. To me, statements are what Ricochet is for.

    And, I have no illusions that Hillary will play the woman card. But, Marco is on message, disciplined, well versed, competent, and his worst sin, … he tried to negotiate an immigration solution. BTW, he did not agree with the plan. His sin was he talked with Dems about non-deportable resident permits. In the General Election, that is probably no sin with most Republicans and independents – that is a plus.

    Ted Cruz is pretty nifty too. But, his is not a postive message that people can get behind – too dogmatic, a fighter, and the guy who wants to shut down the government. But, he can surprise you as BB67 pointed out elsewhere. So, one never knows. I just don’t see Ted Cruz getting to 270 electoral votes.

    Rubio has an outside chance if he can hold Fla., secure Ohio and maybe grab Pa., Wisconsin, NC and Va.

    I have studied the math, it is possible – but a stretch for us even with Rubio. And my data and that of some pretty decent forecasters is Rubio at the top is likely our best shot. So, Rubio has to pick the right VP who can help win those swing states.

    If we pick the Rubio and he picks the right VP, then it might be close. There is a lot at stake – 1-3 Supreme Court appointments and positioning for the 2018 Senate race when the Dems have a lot of swing states in play – many vulnerable Democratic Senators. The GOP could get to 60 votes in the Senate in 2018 if the pieces all fall together.

    So pick your VP wisely.

    • #6
  7. Manny Member
    Manny
    @Manny

    I’m thinking it’s going to be Rubio/Christie.  Rubio needs executive experience to offset his lack.

    • #7
  8. John Penfold Member
    John Penfold
    @IWalton

    The pessimism that causes Republicans to search for some formulae is just wrong headed. Yes, there are more democrats than Republicans and many  don’t respond to messages they’re not spoon fed by the right authority,  but they’re a minority.  Moreover, independents aren’t just averages of the two parties.  They’re empty vessels shaped through osmosis by the main stream media, but some are educable by a strong narrative and others can be confused enough to stay home. While it’s true Democrats who are to the left of most Americans have to move to the middle for elections, this is not an argument for Republicans to do the same. The party that provides the best story, the most convincing narrative and does it with style and passion will move folks.  The risk Republicans face is predictable fraud and indifference.  These can’t be addressed with  some mindless mechanical formula aimed at meeting  some abstract notion pollsters predict or historians expect.   The thing about the Carly and Rubio stories is that they have the strength of being true so can be developed, defended and can actually spread.   I don’t include Cruz who is in the same league,  because he should be Atty General and then put on the court.

    • #8
  9. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Fiorina would be a much more effective executive.

    • #9
  10. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    I still don’t take Fiorina seriously for the top slot, and am queasy about the second. There’s still too much we don’t know.

    That said, I completely agree that in this race there’s a strong political advantage to a woman in the VP slot. Not because it’s a formula, but because politically there are simply things she could say that Rubio couldn’t. Not merely in the attack-dog role, but stuff like this:

    https://youtu.be/npvK4SeFxaA

    • #10
  11. Carey J. Inactive
    Carey J.
    @CareyJ

    Rubio is unacceptable on border security. If he must be on the ticket, it’s gotta be as veep.

    • #11
  12. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    It matters to me.  I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever.  There is no forgiveness for that perfidy.  Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race.  So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    • #12
  13. dnewlander Coolidge
    dnewlander
    @dnewlander

    Y’all still can’t have Susanna. She’s not done here in NM, not by a long shot. But hopefully we’ll deliver our measly five electoral votes to the GOP, just like in 2004. I don’t know that Rubio helps that (Hispanic ≠ Hispanic) but let’s give it a shot.

    • #13
  14. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    • #14
  15. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    iWe:Fiorina would be a much more effective executive.

    She has to be elected first.  That would be a problem given what I stated above.  Besides, I think Rubio would do fine in the oval office.

    • #15
  16. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    My opinion is:  with a republican amnesty, we’re only delaying this by 4 – 8 years – and then the Dems have a solid majority for the forseeable future.

    • #16
  17. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right.  Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    • #17
  18. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    LilyBart:

    • #18
  19. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Yeah, and which candidate is that? There isn’t one.

    Look, Rubio made a mistake – he’s admitted as much. One repudiated position is going to keep you from voting for this man? Guess you couldn’t have voted for Reagan either, if that’s your metric.

    • #19
  20. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Drusus:

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Yeah, and which candidate is that? There isn’t one.

    Look, Rubio made a mistake – he’s admitted as much. One repudiated position is going to keep you from voting for this man? Guess you couldn’t have voted for Reagan either, if that’s your metric.

    Its what he lied about – this issue is critical to me.    And the timing of his admission is suspect.   He held pretty tight to his support for the Gang of 8 until it became inconvenient for him.    Suggests he says whatever needs to be said during the election.  (smacks of “build the dang fence”)

    My own excellent mother would advise that if you lie, you’ll be known as a liar.  She always said that Its easier to maintain a good reputation than the repair one you’ve damaged.

    Again, why don’t you try to compromise with the conservatives instead of trying for an all out win – because that’s how you’ll lose.

    • #20
  21. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Yeah, and which candidate is that? There isn’t one.

    Look, Rubio made a mistake – he’s admitted as much. One repudiated position is going to keep you from voting for this man? Guess you couldn’t have voted for Reagan either, if that’s your metric.

    Its what he lied about – this issue is critical to me. And the timing of his admission is suspect. He held pretty tight to his support for the Gang of 8 until it became inconvenient for him. Suggests he says whatever needs to be said during the election. (smacks of “build the dang fence”)

    My own excellent mother would advise that if you lie, you’ll be known as a liar. She always said that Its easier to maintain a good reputation than the repair one you’ve damaged.

    Again, why don’t you try to compromise with the conservatives instead of trying for an all out win – because that’s how you’ll lose.

    Okay, you’ve just lost me. Completely. I don’t know how you can argue for compromise on one hand, while stating that a temporary position forever taints a man’s credibility and suitability for office. I can’t think of a person on that stage that I agree with 100%, but I’m willing to vote for a person that I agree with on most things. This is the best field we have had in my short lifetime – I can’t fathom the antipathy towards candidates for such minor infractions. This is how the party dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.

    • #21
  22. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Who would you suggest?  Cruz?  He’ll scare the children and the old people.  Jindahl?  Nobody outside of Ricochet or Louisiana knows who he is.  Trump?  Really?

    If the purists can’t accept Rubio if he wins the nomination then we are doomed.

    • #22
  23. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    Any by the way, who is this compromise candidate you keep speaking of? Cause from my point of view, it IS Rubio. He checks most of the boxes with the fewest negatives. Is he perfect? No. But is he the best choice? It looks like it to me.

    • #23
  24. Karen Humiston Member
    Karen Humiston
    @KarenHumiston

    James Madison:I like her too.But she is a long shot for VP.

    If Rubio makes it, and he is on trajectory, his VP will be Rob Portman or John Kasich.Probably Portman.Rubio will need some one who can debate, attack, and win Ohio, Pa and maybe Wisconsin.Both Portman and Kasich can.Portman was a finalist for VP under Romney.

    Carly for Sec. of Defense, maybe.

    Why on earth do you think Portman or Kasich would be more likely to win Wisconsin? Ew — No way!  This Cheesehead is all in for Fiorina or Rubio.  I would love to see Carly go against Hillary, but Frozen has nearly persuaded me that Rubio would be better in the top spot.

    Okay.  Now that we’ve decided that, can we skip the next ten months or so?

    • #24
  25. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Drusus:

    This is how the party dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.

    No, perfidy is how it died.   The betrayal of limited government principals and the betrayal of the rule of law.

    Voting for the lesser of evils, we taught the republicans that they could move away from representing our best interests.   They don’t really give a damn about our interests because we taught them that they don’t have to. Rubio lies and you’re ready to forgive him because he sounds and looks so good on the campaign trail.   He’ll turn back to amnesty (for practical reasons, of course!) once the election is over, just like he did before.

    Maybe you don’t care.  Maybe you support amnesty.

    • #25
  26. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Frozen Chosen:

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Who would you suggest? Cruz? He’ll scare the children and the old people. Jindahl? Nobody outside of Ricochet or Louisiana knows who he is. Trump? Really?

    If the purists can’t accept Rubio if he wins the nomination then we are doomed.

    Yes, you sound ready for a compromise. /sarc

    Your heart is as hard as you accuse others of being, and yet you’re ready to place all blame on others.

    • #26
  27. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    This is how the party dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.

    No, perfidy is how it died. The betrayal of limited government principals and the betrayal of the rule of law.

    Voting for the lesser of evils, we taught the republicans that they could move away from representing our best interests. They don’t really give a damn about our interests because we taught them that they don’t have to. Rubio lies and you’re ready to forgive him because he sounds and looks so good on the campaign trail. He’ll turn back to amnesty (for practical reasons, of course!) once the election is over, just like he did before.

    Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you support amnesty.

    Maybe I support forced sterilization too. Give me a break.

    So who if not Rubio? I’m willing to vote for a consensus candidate. Make the case.

    • #27
  28. LilyBart Inactive
    LilyBart
    @LilyBart

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    This is how the party dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.

    No, perfidy is how it died. The betrayal of limited government principals and the betrayal of the rule of law.

    Voting for the lesser of evils, we taught the republicans that they could move away from representing our best interests. They don’t really give a damn about our interests because we taught them that they don’t have to. Rubio lies and you’re ready to forgive him because he sounds and looks so good on the campaign trail. He’ll turn back to amnesty (for practical reasons, of course!) once the election is over, just like he did before.

    Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you support amnesty.

    Maybe I support forced sterilization too. Give me a break.

    So who if not Rubio? I’m willing to vote for a consensus candidate. Make the case.

    I’ve already read your critique (above), you’re not open – you’ve tipped your hand.

    And knock off the ‘purist’ remarks – that too shows your real position.

    • #28
  29. Drusus Inactive
    Drusus
    @Drusus

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    This is how the party dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.

    No, perfidy is how it died. The betrayal of limited government principals and the betrayal of the rule of law.

    Voting for the lesser of evils, we taught the republicans that they could move away from representing our best interests. They don’t really give a damn about our interests because we taught them that they don’t have to. Rubio lies and you’re ready to forgive him because he sounds and looks so good on the campaign trail. He’ll turn back to amnesty (for practical reasons, of course!) once the election is over, just like he did before.

    Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you support amnesty.

    Maybe I support forced sterilization too. Give me a break.

    So who if not Rubio? I’m willing to vote for a consensus candidate. Make the case.

    I’ve already read your critique (above), you’re not open – you’ve tipped your hand.

    And knock off the ‘purist’ remarks – that too shows your real position.

    No, I’ve simply stated that the calculus I’ve done so far leads me to Rubio as the consensus candidate. You obviously don’t agree, because of one stance since repudiated. If you’ve got relevant variables that would change my calculations, I’m all for hearing them.

    So again, make the case. Who if not him?

    • #29
  30. Frozen Chosen Inactive
    Frozen Chosen
    @FrozenChosen

    LilyBart:

    Frozen Chosen:

    LilyBart:

    Drusus:

    LilyBart:It matters to me. I’m not willing to vote for Rubio –

    A guy who teams up with McCain and Schumer to craft an amnesty plan is off my list forever. There is no forgiveness for that perfidy. Especially because he promised NOT to support amnesty to win the Senate race. So it makes him untrustworthy as well.

    Enjoy your next Democrat overlord (overlady?), if this is really your intransigent opinion.

    I could easily say you’re ensuring a Hillary win by supporting a candidate so unacceptable to the right. Why don’t you try to find a compromise candidate both sides can agree to give a little on instead?

    Who would you suggest? Cruz? He’ll scare the children and the old people. Jindahl? Nobody outside of Ricochet or Louisiana knows who he is. Trump? Really?

    If the purists can’t accept Rubio if he wins the nomination then we are doomed.

    Yes, you sound ready for a compromise. /sarc

    Your heart is as hard as you accuse others of being, and yet you’re ready to place all blame on others.

    Not to gang up on you but we’re still waiting for a name, Lily. Convince me who would be better than Rubio – I’m all ears.

    • #30
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