Pot Legalization Ain’t (Tax) Consequence Free

 

Like death and taxes, you can count on the state to fumble the libertarian holy grail of recreational marijuana legalization. Take Colorado, for example.

There’s a ballot proposition (Prop BB) for next week’s election that allows the state to keep revenues from excise and sales taxes on pot, rather than having to return the excess to growers and taxpayers under Colorado’s TABOR.

Here’s a good summary of the up/down consequences from BallotPedia:

If voters approve the measure and the state keeps the money, it would be used for school construction and state programs [isn’t it always?]. If voters reject the measure, the money would be refunded by temporarily reducing the marijuana sales tax, returning funds to marijuana cultivators and the average taxpayer would receive about $8.

Now, the careless voter may say, “Hey! What’s $8 to me?” — and just vote “Yes” on BB, as is being encouraged by nearly everyone, except Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform, on the basis it’s a tax increase. What else?

But, being the conscientious type, and not buying the “tax increase” argument, I did a little digging to find out exactly what the dopers consumers are paying as the effective tax rate on this now (locally) legal product. I mean, it’s their money, right? Why should I be getting even $8 of it, if it can be used for something good like school construction?

Care to guess? You have to remember the excise tax from grower to distributor is paid by the consumer, along with a sales tax just for pot, and then whatever the local city sales tax is. Mr. C guessed 10-15 percent. He would be wrong!

According the Tax Foundation, the effective rate in Denver is 29 percent. Here’s how it adds up:

Colorado collects tax revenue from marijuana sales through a 15 percent excise based tax on the average wholesale market rate; a 10 percent state tax on retail marijuana sales; a state sales tax of 2.9 percent; varied local sales taxes; and local marijuana taxes such as a 3.5 percent tax in Denver.

For comparison, cigarette taxes run 31 percent and beer taxes about 8 percent.

This is exactly what I feared when Colorado voted to legalize recreational marijuana — the state would overtax it to the point of encouraging a black market. If people are selling loosies illegally, you better believe there’s an underground market for pot with a tax rate nearly as high as that on tobacco. All the good that might have been done by taxing pot reasonably, regulating growers and distributors, and assuring the quality of their product is now at risk.

What’s the government equivalent of Murphy’s Law? Something about, `’If the state can screw something up, it will?” Well, if you think Colorado is messing up, Washington’s effective tax rate on pot is 44 percent — although its tax on tobacco is 104 percent!

I voted for Colorado to send me $8. We can’t trust these putzes with even that much.

Published in Economics, General
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  1. Duane Oyen Member
    Duane Oyen
    @DuaneOyen

    They can tax drugs at 73% and I am fine with it.

    • #61
  2. Spin Inactive
    Spin
    @Spin

    EJHill:Spin – Labeling IS required in Colorado. But there is no standardized test. It would be akin to having one test say your wine in 5% alcohol while another showed it at 18%. Conflicting information is about as useful as no information.

    I ain’t axin’ whats legal!

    • #62
  3. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Spin:you are against regulations that specify what is in the mariJuana.

    Yeah, I know.  The other spelling was courtesy of autocorrect on my phone, and I was too lazy to fix it.

    Although every time it spelled it the other way, I felt like Harry Anslinger.

    • #63
  4. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Simply because someone has to do it:

    “Troy: Fred, you’re a libertarian, I assume you have weed.”

    • #64
  5. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    Duane Oyen:They can tax drugs at 73% and I am fine with it.

    Including alcohol and asprin?

    • #65
  6. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Fred Cole:

    Duane Oyen:They can tax drugs at 73% and I am fine with it.

    Including alcohol and asprin?

    And prescriptions?  Like Grandma’s life-saving heart medicine?

    • #66
  7. Fred Cole Inactive
    Fred Cole
    @FredCole

    EJHill:The state highly regulates the food industry. There are purity standards, health and cleanliness inspections, etc. Drug and alcohol industries face the same – and all to the public good.

    But you’re not talking about regulating this like we regulate the safety of a can of corned beef hash.  You started this by mentioning the amount of THC and then comparing it to alcohol regulation.

    The limits we put on ABV are a relic of prohibition era thinking.  It has nothing to do with purity and cleanliness.  It has nothing to do with labeling and standardized testing.  It has to do with control.  It’s nanny-ism at its best.

    • #67
  8. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    Fred Cole:

    EJHill:The state highly regulates the food industry. There are purity standards, health and cleanliness inspections, etc. Drug and alcohol industries face the same – and all to the public good.

    But you’re not talking about regulating this like we regulate the safety of a can of corned beef hash. You started this by mentioning the amount of THC and then comparing it to alcohol regulation.

    The limits we put on ABV are a relic of prohibition era thinking. It has nothing to do with purity and cleanliness. It has nothing to do with labeling and standardized testing. It has to do with control. It’s nanny-ism at its best.

    Agree.  And a part of it was based on age limitations on purchase based on alcohol content.  Anybody remember 3.2 beer?

    Let’s remember we’re talking about an industry that is currently not regulated at all, and there are no deaths as a result of that lack.

    • #68
  9. Tom Meyer, Ed. Member
    Tom Meyer, Ed.
    @tommeyer

    Spin:

    What about edible underwear? That’s what I want to know. What are we going to do about that little problem? Huh?

    I’m going to talk to Jon about a new TMI criteria for the CoC. ;)

    • #69
  10. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Tom Meyer, Ed.:

    Spin:

    What about edible underwear? That’s what I want to know. What are we going to do about that little problem? Huh?

    I’m going to talk to Jon about a new TMI criteria for the CoC. ;)

    What the…? I turn my back for a couple minutes (hours) and this whole thread degenerates. It’s like Rico is inhabited by unruly children ‘er somethin’. ;-)

    • #70
  11. EJHill Podcaster
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Judge Mental: Let’s remember we’re talking about an industry that is currently not regulated at all, and there are no deaths as a result of that lack.

    Not true. From that uptight conservative rag, The Huffington Post:

    An autopsy report listed marijuana intoxication as a significant contributing factor in the death of 19-year-old Levy Thamba Pongi.

    Authorities said Pongi, who traveled from Wyoming to Denver with friends to try marijuana, ate six times more than the amount recommended by a seller. In the moments before his death, he spoke erratically and threw things around his hotel room.

    Toxicologists later found that the cookie Pongi ate contained as much THC — marijuana’s intoxicating chemical — as six high-quality joints.

    There is also the story of Kristine Kirk, who was murdered by her husband while he was hallucinating on edibles.

    • #71
  12. Judge Mental Member
    Judge Mental
    @JudgeMental

    EJHill:

    Judge Mental: Let’s remember we’re talking about an industry that is currently not regulated at all, and there are no deaths as a result of that lack.

    Not true. From that uptight conservative rag, The Huffington Post:

    An autopsy report listed marijuana intoxication as a significant contributing factor in the death of 19-year-old Levy Thamba Pongi.

    Authorities said Pongi, who traveled from Wyoming to Denver with friends to try marijuana, ate six times more than the amount recommended by a seller. In the moments before his death, he spoke erratically and threw things around his hotel room.

    Toxicologists later found that the cookie Pongi ate contained as much THC — marijuana’s intoxicating chemical — as six high-quality joints.

    There is also the story of Kristine Kirk, who was murdered by her husband while he was hallucinating on edibles.

    I won’t vouch for edibles.  Or for people like Maureen Dowd who eat the entire platter sized brownie intended as 16 servings.

    • #72
  13. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Jamal Rudert:This was very much my thinking, WC. Because what is marijuana? Dried leaves. It’s just not worth that much, being a low-value-added product. The street price reflects only the danger inherent in producing it under a prohibitionist regime.

    That’s not completely true. Yes, there’s a prohibition premium, but there’s a fair knowledge and craft base involved in getting the desired profiles of active components. You could also say that there’s little objective difference between a great California cab and Two Buck Chuck, or that oolong tea is “just leaves” though for decent stuff you’re paying better than $300/lb, sometimes much better.

    • #73
  14. Wineguy13 Thatcher
    Wineguy13
    @Wineguy13

    EJHill:Wineguy – My facts came from an editorial in the Oklahoman (http://newsok.com/article/5404867).

    We’ve gone around this bend more than once. My main problem with this social experiment is that it’s TOO free wheeling. Fred loves to compare weed to alcohol, but wine, beer and spirits are heavily regulated in their manufacture. For pot, THC levels are all over the map. The potency is supposed to be on the label but there are 18 different labs in Colorado currently testing but they’re using so many different methods that the results vary too much for consumers (or law enforcement) to be certain.

    Thanks for the info, I read the article, and indeed there are costs to Colorado and neighboring states.  I take issue with some of them, but statistics are always thus.  There is (or was) a case against CO from neighboring states due to costs associated with enforcement of laws where the drugs were illegal.

    I remain steadfast in my belief that the criminalization of drugs is a state issue, and federal prohibitions are unconstitutional, though I understand that this is a losing argument in the 21st century.  Although my evidence is purely anecdotal, I know of no pot user (and I know a lot of them, I am in the alcohol biz after all) who has used more or less than before, nor do I know of any person who refrained before and uses it now.  There are tragic stories of edibles being found by children, or over-used owing to the dosage being entirely unintelligible by most consumers.  Though the subject of my original comment dealt with the tax refund issue, I will simply say that the predictions of calamity were exaggerated and the proponents were also wrong about how smoothly this would go.

    • #74
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