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A young man once came to me with a paper in his pocket. On it was a list of reasons he and his beloved should be married. Convincing her was necessary, for she had once again turned down his proposal.
Libertarians seem to reject this truth. They seem to see the rest as chained versions of themselves: zoo lions longing for the savannah.
Casey, I don’t mind a bit if you want to be one of the Borg. Just so long as you leave me alone. There is libertarian philosophy in a nutshell. Leave me the hell alone.
As for the other philosophy, Loki summed it up nicely in The Avengers:
Loki: Kneel before me. I said, KNEEL!
[Loki stamps his scepter on the ground, causing a shockwave that intimidates the crowd into silence as they all kneel before him]
Loki: Is not this simpler? Is this not your natural state? It’s the unspoken truth of humanity, that you crave subjugation. The bright lure of freedom diminishes your life’s joy in a mad scramble for power, for identity. You were made to be ruled. In the end, you will always kneel.
German Old Man: [slowly rises to his feet] Not to men like you.
Loki: [smiling] There are no men like me.
German Old Man: There are always men like you.
Loki: Look to your elder, people. Let him be an example.
[Loki aims a blast of power from his scepter at the old man when Captain America leaps in front of the intended target, deflecting the blast with his shield back at Loki, knocking him down]
Steve Rogers: You know, the last time I was in Germany and saw a man standing above everybody else, we ended up disagreeing.
No, you are right.
How are you gonna make me?
Catnip.
And there goes liberty.
Usually, just by being smarter than you. In a real pinch, there’s always the Second Amendment.
Very well said, Bryan.
Exactly. Thank you.
I don’t think that society at the time of the Declaration of Independence was particularly libertarian. It was a society that cottoned to state religion, slavery, and what would be considered today to be suffocating public decency standards bordering on or blown past free speech violations.
Yes, and so can others. There is no easy or clean way to sort out the competing visions.
Yeah, in fact there is. You just have to imagine your “world as it should be” with someone who is not just like you in charge. It’s easy to tolerate despotism if the despot thinks just as you do. The test comes when the despot wants to engineer society in ways you abhor. That’s when freedom stops being just another a “competing vision” and starts being pretty important.
Larry, there’s logic in what you say, but it’s only possible as a theoretical construct. It’s unstable. Your model relies upon a fair-minded strongman or cabal, and we can’t even keep half of a cabal together with any decent respect for rules.
Your theoretical government relies upon theoretical fair men of good will, or else it simply morphs quickly into a despotism, and is suitable only for a theoretical people. From all we have seen, the dog won’t eat that food. Your position is less popular than socialism. How much force will you exert to maintain your chosen model of society?
BDB, Honestly, I’m not so ambitious as you think. Like most libertarians, I’m not trying to rebuild society. I’m just a guy trying to do the right thing, which means figuring out what the right thing is. Most of the time, the right thing is to leave people alone, rather than bossing them around. You are correct in observing that this is not the popular position — the natural tendency of most people is to boss other people around. Libertarianism will never be the most popular philosophy. But it helps me figure out the right thing in any given situation. That’s good enough for me. I don’t expect the right to prevail every time. That would indeed be unrealistic. But I can hope. Maybe we win some of the time.
Fair points, Larry. I don’t know where you come down on border issues, etcetera., and I don’t mean to lump you in unfairly.
I favor very strong border enforcement, and deportation at the drop of a hat. I think that millions of culturally unassimilated aliens present an existential threat to the Republic. And no, I don’t see that position as being inconsistent with libertarianism in any way. Libertarianism is mostly about defining the legitimate functions of government. Once we agree that having borders is proper at all, and I think most of us do, then it is without question a legitimate function of government to enforce those borders.
And if the government should be doing something at all, then it should be doing it right. That is also a libertarian position. Few laws are necessary, but those that are necessary must be taken seriously.
I guess that is one of those areas that is hard to pin down. Many libertarians are so into open borders it makes your head spin, even a moral imperative. But, it does make some sense. Hmmm, might have a post in mind.
Could not agree more with this entire comment.