Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Democratic Debate: Better Than Expected

 

shutterstock_236564839My impression is that it wasn’t that bad. Anderson Cooper’s questions were focused, clear, fair, and got to issues that are important to the country and the Democratic base. I was actually surprised by some of the back and forth on a few of the questions. Jim Webb gave some very solid and non-orthodox answers on affirmative action and climate change, which I was shocked to hear from a Democrat (and so was the audience, I think). When gun control came up, there was a real split among the candidates, with Sanders and Webb on one side and the rest of the field on the other. I was even impressed that Sanders defended a gun shop owner from being held liable for following the law. I was also surprised that Sanders gave Hillary a complete pass on her email scandal, but I guess that no one actually cares that much about Democratic corruption in the Democratic race.

Now, on to Clinton, who was okay, so long as she avoided laughing. She was very evasive on all foreign policy issues, and I’m not sure I understand what she thinks is going on in the world, let alone what should be done about it. Her explanation of Libya was an amazing non-answer: essentially, we did it because everyone wanted us to do it, and that was it. No acknowledgement that the place has gone down the toilet. I don’t recall anyone challenging her on that, which is surprising given how quick everyone was to complain about Iraq, and Libya is Iraq with less forethought and follow through. Basically, I gathered that Hillary will do what ever is popular in foreign policy be it bomb, retreat, or ignore. Which is, I guess, what I expected.

I was surprised by how strongly Webb feels about China; so strongly, that he jumped 5,000 miles during an answer about Syria to talk about the South China Sea. I thought he was going to promise to declare war on them right then and there. No one really seemed to talk much about Putin or Russia except Sanders, who is buying into the newest trend on the Left of applauding Putin’s self-inflicted wounds of conquering the Crimea, invading Eastern Ukraine, and moving on to Syria. I guess the final master stroke will be to get him to invade Poland. Then, his number will finally be up. The Russian people will hold him accountable just like they did with… what was the name of that Russian leader that was held accountable by the Russian people? I can’t wait for a sane and competent Republican to ream them over this. The bottom line is that all the candidates on the stage would have no policy towards Russia other then letting Putin do whatever he wants.

On domestic issues, all the candidates were pretty much all the same. They will find this tax cheat named “Rich,” and then the government will have the funds it needs to build bridges and pay for social security. I hope they get this guy; he sounds like a real jerk.

Clinton seemed to get the line of the night about government meddling in abortion, at least based on the applause-o-meter. Funny that she made it with a libertarian argument. Her party is all about the arbitrary coercion of people to do what is “right.” I also love the fact that they are constantly oblivious to the trade-offs their policies entail. What harm? California does it, they still have jobs. Well, Texas doesn’t and they still have babies. Guess it all works.

My take away is that no one did anything to hurt Clinton. My predictions are that her numbers will rise and Biden will not jump in. Clinton stood her consistently-inconsistent ground, declared herself a woman, roared, and no one is pushing her off of this nomination. Good for her, I guess. I’m not sure there will be much reason to see a second debate.

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  1. TKC1101 Inactive

    Sanders may have hit on something. I can see “Keep your guns, shoot the bankers” as a future slogan.

    • #1
    • October 13, 2015, at 9:17 PM PDT
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  2. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    TKC1101:Sanders may have hit on something. I can see “Keep your guns, shoot the bankers” as a future slogan.

    Maybe, but really I think Democrats hate guns more than they hate Bankers. Really nothing anyone said struck me as opening up any rifts. Which all goes to benefiting Hillary and her massive establishment. Bernie Sanders is the Ron Paul of the Democrats he is having his fun and pushing his fringe politics, but unlike Paul he doesn’t have a heir. At least not yet, but I don’t see one emerging. There are no young Democrats. It is Hillary or nothing. Maybe if the legal situation gets worse for her Biden will ride in but if and until that does I don’t think he will.

    • #2
    • October 13, 2015, at 9:33 PM PDT
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  3. Joseph Stanko Coolidge
    Joseph StankoJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I honestly had no idea there were 5 Dems in the race. I guess I had heard that the metric guy was in the race, the other names sounds vaguely familiar but I assumed they had dropped out or decided not to run.

    How did the other 3 do? Will any of them see a bump in their poll numbers now that the mainstream audience learns they are actually in the race?

    • #3
    • October 13, 2015, at 9:42 PM PDT
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  4. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Joseph Stanko:I honestly had no idea there were 5 Dems in the race. I guess I had heard that the metric guy was in the race, the other names sounds vaguely familiar but I assumed they had dropped out or decided not to run.

    How did the other 3 do? Will any of them see a bump in their poll numbers now that the mainstream audience learns they are actually in the race?

    No one was really bad as far as I can judge this in an impartial manner. If I were a Democrat they all sounded the same to me except for Jim Webb who sounded like he just came out of a time warp from the 50’s or something. He was the only one that didn’t toe the line on affirmative action, and energy, and his China rhetoric was almost Republican in its intensity. That is the thing no one there looked better than Hillary. Maybe if you are a real die hard “progressive” hipster who dreams of making America look like Denmark in which case only Sanders is your only man, there is no good reason to choose anyone else over Hillary.

    • #4
    • October 13, 2015, at 9:55 PM PDT
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  5. TKC1101 Inactive

    Valiuth:

    TKC1101:Sanders may have hit on something. I can see “Keep your guns, shoot the bankers” as a future slogan.

    Maybe, but really I think Democrats hate guns more than they hate Bankers. Really nothing anyone said struck me as opening up any rifts. Which all goes to benefiting Hillary and her massive establishment. Bernie Sanders is the Ron Paul of the Democrats he is having his fun and pushing his fringe politics, but unlike Paul he doesn’t have a heir. At least not yet, but I don’t see one emerging. There are no young Democrats. It is Hillary or nothing. Maybe if the legal situation gets worse for her Biden will ride in but if and until that does I don’t think he will.

    The campaign is on, Hillary will have her coronation and the Republicans better have more than email.

    The only path to victory for the GOP is a wide blue collar voter appeal.

    You counter free college with real jobs. You counter handouts with real jobs.

    No populism, no victory.

    • #5
    • October 13, 2015, at 10:33 PM PDT
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  6. Dustoff Inactive

    VALIUTH,

    Thanks for your review. Your reference to Hilary’s laughter and the image of hoards of flying monkeys sent off to grab Dorothey and her little dog too, is one of many reasons I could not make myself watch her. Nevertheless your overview and comments are helpful and fair sounding. I suspected Webb might be the wildcard of the night, considering his history and service.

    As much as I wish Hilary to go away, it seems she is in for the duration. Thanks for persevering and reporting, where I could not.

    • #6
    • October 14, 2015, at 1:15 AM PDT
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  7. Scott Wilmot Member

    Valiuth: I don’t think anyone did anything to hurt Hillary. Her numbers will rise, and Biden will not jump in. Hillary stood her consistently inconsistent ground declared herself a woman, roared, and no one is pushing her off of this nomination. Good for her I guess. I’m not sure there will be much reason to see a second debate.

    I think that is a good analysis. Unless she is indicted, I don’t see any of those 3 clowns plus Webb doing any damage. Herself can’t but help to look good to the Dems standing amongst O’Malley, Chafee, and Sanders.

    I almost quit before it started – it took 30 minutes before a question was asked for crying out loud. And then I did quit after hearing Herself say “God-given rights” for the umpteenth time. I wish Cooper would have asked her what she thinks of the God-given right to life of the child in the womb.

    • #7
    • October 14, 2015, at 2:53 AM PDT
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  8. The (apathetic) King Prawn Inactive

    I appreciate the effort as about half a sentence into the first answer her voice turned my headache into a migraine and I had to tap out.

    Bill Bennett this morning described the other candidates as being like the stooges a champion boxer fights to retain the title. Seems to concur with your opinion. Jim Webb sounds almost like the last blue dog democrat in their party. I’m sure he’ll be punished appropriately for his heresy on the liberal pieties.

    Perhaps we need someone to explore the Sanders/Paulite attraction both left and right. I find it a fascinating political science and/or sociological question.

    • #8
    • October 14, 2015, at 4:20 AM PDT
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  9. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Awe they took out my line about Clinton’s laugh. Curse you Ricochet Code of Conduct, you may have won this round but I’ll get you yet! You and your little dog too.

    Seriously though, if you ran a 30s add that was just Hillary’s laugh on loop, it would be the greatest attack add ever.

    • #9
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:35 AM PDT
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  10. Profile Photo Member

    Valiuth: The bottom line is that all the candidates on the stage would have no policy towards Russia other then letting Putin do whatever he wants.

    At least that’s honest, for what it’s worth.

    • #10
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:40 AM PDT
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  11. Benjamin Glaser Inactive

    Jim Webb is an old-school Appalachian Democrat…the kind that used to exist in my home state of West Virginia. Socially conservative, economically protectionist, anti-war, yet with strong defense.

    There is no home for people like that anymore.

    • #11
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:46 AM PDT
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  12. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Benjamin Glaser:Jim Webb is an old-school Appalachian Democrat…the kind that used to exist in my home state of West Virginia. Socially conservative, economically protectionist, anti-war, yet with strong defense.

    There is no home for people like that anymore.

    I guess not.

    • #12
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:48 AM PDT
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  13. Man With the Axe Member

    Your recap and analyis is very well done. I watched for a while, maybe 45 minutes, but it was really very painful. If it weren’t a Bidenism to use the word “literally” this way, I would say that it literally made me vomit.

    It’s hard enough to listen to Hillary’s voice. But Jim Webb aside there was so much stupidity and cowardice on display in that debate that I longed to turn it off.

    Their answer to the “Is it black lives that matter or all lives that matter” question was a sorry spectacle of appeasement of a pressure group. Only Webb showed the courage to say all lives matter. I wish one of them had at least said, “It’s black lives that matter. The rest of you can go hang for all I care.”

    Between the foreign policy lunacy and their domestic stance of free lunch for all except the 1%, it is amazing to me that this party has any supporters with an above average IQ.

    • #13
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:55 AM PDT
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  14. ctlaw Coolidge

    Hillary seemed the most normal in a crowd of freaks.

    The other 4 seemed to be in a speech affectation contest.

    The main problem with Webb is that he is probably insane. Every sane thing he says only underlines the fact that there must be a deep derangement associated with his party affiliation.

    Sanders and O’Malley are liars. Sanders’s gun control lies are seen in the bizarre assertion that his local gun dealer should be exempt from suit for selling a gun used in a crime but that the manufacturer should not.

    • #14
    • October 14, 2015, at 5:56 AM PDT
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  15. The (apathetic) King Prawn Inactive

    Man With the Axe: Between the foreign policy lunacy and their domestic stance of free lunch for all except the 1%, it is amazing to me that this party has any supporters with an above average IQ.

    It’s the above average levels of greed married to laziness that makes their party what it is.

    • #15
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:15 AM PDT
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  16. Richard O'Shea Coolidge

    It was, essentially, a two person debate. Cooper did a good job with questions and followups. Hillary was pretty sharp, and Bernie owned both his socialism and pro-gun record.

    Did she scare off Biden?

    Who will do best against Hillary in a one-on-one debate?

    • #16
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:24 AM PDT
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  17. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    I was pleased that Anderson Cooper zeroed in on Hillary’s long history of flip-flops right out of the gate, basically suggesting that she’ll say anything she needs to say to get elected.

    He didn’t stick to softballs.

    But on the whole, I thought the group of them were all fighting for the title of Most Leftist Ever (and with Bernie in there, it was already going to be a tough fight), to the point where Webb actually stood out as a sane Democrat.

    It felt like they weren’t even trying to appeal to the much-sought-after centrist voter.

    I think if you compared this debate to the performances of Democrats in 2000 or 2004, you would be surprised by just how acceptable it is now for Democrats to sound like Marxists.

    • #17
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:41 AM PDT
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  18. livingtheLoneStarlife Inactive

    Scott Wilmot: I wish Cooper would have asked her what she thinks of the God-given right to life of the child in the womb.

    I stuck it out for a couple of hours, but never heard any discussion of abortion. Was there?

    • #18
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:42 AM PDT
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  19. Mr. Dart Inactive

    Benjamin Glaser:Jim Webb is an old-school Appalachian Democrat…the kind that used to exist in my home state of West Virginia. Socially conservative, economically protectionist, anti-war, yet with strong defense.

    There is no home for people like that anymore.

    That is the voter who is often described as “Middle American Radicals” and they exist all over the country. MARs are usually white, more often male than female, working class, and patriotic. They gave Reagan landslides, they backed Perot over Bush 41, and they stayed home by the millions when the choice was Mitt or Obama.

    You’re right that they have no home in either party. The Democrats despise them and the Republicans want their favorite candidate (the guy who has been on top in the polls since July 15th, btw) to just go away.

    Jim Webb is an anachronism. There is no longer even one white Democrat in the US House of Representatives from a Southern state. He has no base in the Democrat party. He’s the only one in that show last night with a lick of sense, too.

    • #19
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:43 AM PDT
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  20. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western ChauvinistJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I only caught a few minutes of it as Mr. C was watching. Akshully, I made him fast forward anytime Hillary opened her mouth. But what struck me about listening to Sanders mostly, is how artificial and arrogant the whole 1% thing is. How does he know the point at which you’ve made enough money? What special insight or knowledge does he have regarding the distribution of capital? Why do people trust Democrats to tell us such things?

    To answer my own questions, I don’t think people are particularly convinced by the 1% versus 99% argument. I think it just appeals to people’s base instinct of covetousness and the all too human desire to get something for nothing. Democrats promise a lottery win. It’s a damn shame so many people fall for it.

    • #20
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:46 AM PDT
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  21. gts109 Member

    I agree with your analysis, but not the title. I would have gone with: “Democrat Faithful Laugh Off FBI Investigation of Hillary’s Espionage Act and FISA Violations.”

    My favorite moment was when Bernie kept saying “straw man” purchases. I thought Democrats were supposed to be smart.

    • #21
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:50 AM PDT
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  22. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    Sanders’ solution to everything seemed to be “Millions of Americans need to rise up and march on Washington and demand _________.”

    Seriously, he pulled out that “solution” so many times last night I lost count.

    Aside from that, he seemed to have one mode: loud and angry.

    I understand that has appeal with the Mother Jones crowd. But as others are pointing out, the Democrat of the 50s is long gone.

    • #22
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:50 AM PDT
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  23. BrentB67 Inactive

    The King Prawn:I appreciate the effort as about half a sentence into the first answer her voice turned my headache into a migraine and I had to tap out.

    Bill Bennett this morning described the other candidates as being like the stooges a champion boxer fights to retain the title. Seems to concur with your opinion. Jim Webb sounds almost like the last blue dog democrat in their party. I’m sure he’ll be punished appropriately for his heresy on the liberal pieties.

    Perhaps we need someone to explore the Sanders/Paulite attraction both left and right. I find it a fascinating political science and/or sociological question.

    I think the more interesting attraction is the overlap between Sanders/Trump.

    • #23
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:50 AM PDT
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  24. Ekosj Member

    Signature Hillary line of the night was :

    “I’m as transparent as I know how to be!”

    Which is frightening because I believe her. This really IS as transparent as she knows how to be!

    • #24
    • October 14, 2015, at 6:52 AM PDT
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  25. Layla Member
    LaylaJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Incredibly, I don’t think Sanders was even pandering to Clinton when he said that Americans don’t care about Clinton’s d@mn emails. Clinton’s attitude is and has always been that she knows best; if she does it, it is de facto the right thing to do. That is precisely Sanders’ perspective on government.

    It’s terrifying, really.

    • #25
    • October 14, 2015, at 7:07 AM PDT
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  26. DrewInEastHillAutonomousZone Coolidge

    Sheryl Crow’s rendition of the national anthem was just awful. I’ve seen better performances at high school football games.

    • #26
    • October 14, 2015, at 7:14 AM PDT
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  27. Ekosj Member

    And props to Bernie for at least sticking to his guns. He is a nut. But he didn’t try to walk back any of the Socialist stuff. For good or ill, he is all in and proud to be.
    Except for maybe the part about honeymooning in the Soviet Union. That one he steered clear of.

    His position on guns is easy to understand. When the Revolution comes, the proletariat will NEED to be well armed.

    Only thing that surprised me was his giving Hillary a pass on her felonious. emails. Hillary and that issue seem a tailor made example of the ‘Oligarchy’ he rails against. Maybe he thinks it sucks the air out of the room? If the media is talking about her emails they are not talking about him?

    • #27
    • October 14, 2015, at 7:23 AM PDT
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  28. gts109 Member

    I don’t give props to Bernie for sticking to his guns on his socialist views. I’m happy he’s honest about it, but anyone who holds these views in 2015 is deeply ignorant of economic history. I wish that one of the moderators or other candidates had actually challenged him on which economic system had produced massive wealth for the middle class and which had left its middle class in deep poverty.

    • #28
    • October 14, 2015, at 7:59 AM PDT
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  29. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    livingthehighlife:

    Scott Wilmot: I wish Cooper would have asked her what she thinks of the God-given right to life of the child in the womb.

    I stuck it out for a couple of hours, but never heard any discussion of abortion. Was there?

    Well if there is one life we know democrats don’t care about it is a fetus’ life.

    • #29
    • October 14, 2015, at 9:00 AM PDT
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  30. Valiuth Member
    ValiuthJoined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Western Chauvinist:I only caught a few minutes of it as Mr. C was watching. Akshully, I made him fast forward anytime Hillary opened her mouth. But what struck me about listening to Sanders mostly, is how artificial and arrogant the whole 1% thing is. How does he know the point at which you’ve made enough money? What special insight or knowledge does he have regarding the distribution of capital? Why do people trust Democrats to tell us such things?

    To answer my own questions, I don’t think people are particularly convinced by the 1% versus 99% argument. I think it just appeals to people’s base instinct of covetousness and the all too human desire to get something for nothing. Democrats promise a lottery win. It’s a damn shame so many people fall for it.

    I think the answer is very simple. All that someone has to know about the Democrats tax and spend policy is that they won’t be taxing you. So as long as the money doesn’t come out of your pocket what do you care where it comes from?

    • #30
    • October 14, 2015, at 9:04 AM PDT
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