The Francis Effect

 

shutterstock_313976906According to a comprehensive Pew poll, since Francis became the supreme pontiff, the number of Catholics in this country has remained unchanged, the rate at which Catholics attend mass has remained unchanged, and the rates at which Catholics go to confession or participate in volunteer activities in their churches and communities has remained … unchanged.

In view of all this, Mollie Hemingway on the Pope’s visit:

It’s wonderful that some people say that Francis makes them feel the church is more welcoming to them. But if it’s just making people feel more comfortable in their politics, instead of making them feel the comfort of absolution, communion and strengthening of faith, that’s not much to get excited about.

Time, I suppose, will tell.

Published in General, Politics, Religion & Philosophy
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 106 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    “It has left no other nexus between man and man,” they wrote, “than callous cash payment.” 

    Always enjoy reading an argument on a supposedly conservative site quoting Marx and Engels. “Egotistical calculation” requires discipline, forethought, prudence, and a work ethic. Apparently those nouns are no longer considered essential to peace and prosperity.

    • #61
  2. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

     Roman Catholic numbers are rising worldwide at a faster rate than world population.

    Pope Francis Called For More Work From Priests, But 20 Percent Of Parishes Don’t Even Have One

    • #62
  3. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    Liars may figure, but figures do not lie. Kenneth C. Jones of St. Louis has pulled together a slim volume of statistics he has titled Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since Vatican II.

    His findings make prophets of Catholic traditionalists who warned that Vatican II would prove a blunder of historic dimensions, and those same findings expose as foolish and naive those who believed a council could reconcile Catholicism and modernity. When Pope John XXIII threw open the windows of the church, all the poisonous vapors of modernity entered, along with the Devil himself.

    Priests. While the number of priests in the United States more than doubled to 58,000, between 1930 and 1965, since then that number has fallen to 45,000. By 2020, there will be only 31,000 priests left, and more than half of these priests will be over 70.

    Ordinations. In 1965, 1,575 new priests were ordained in the United States. In 2002, the number was 450. In 1965, only 1 percent of U.S. parishes were without a priest. Today, there are 3,000 priestless parishes, 15 percent of all U.S. parishes.

    Seminarians. Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians dropped from 49,000 to 4,700, a decline of over 90 percent. Two-thirds of the 600 seminaries that were operating in 1965 have now closed.

    • #63
  4. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    Though the number of U.S. Catholics has risen by 20 million since 1965, Jones’ statistics show that the power of Catholic belief and devotion to the Faith are not nearly what they were.

    Catholic Marriage. Catholic marriages have fallen in number by one-third since 1965, while the annual number of annulments has soared from 338 in 1968 to 50,000 in 2002.

    Attendance at Mass. A 1958 Gallup Poll reported that three in four Catholics attended church on Sundays. A recent study by the University of Notre Dame found that only one in four now attend.

    Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers now accept church teaching on contraception. Fifty-three percent believe a Catholic can have an abortion and remain a good Catholic. Sixty-five percent believe that Catholics may divorce and remarry. Seventy-seven percent believe one can be a good Catholic without going to mass on Sundays. By one New York Times poll, 70 percent of all Catholics in the age group 18 to 44 believe the Eucharist is merely a “symbolic reminder” of Jesus.

    • #64
  5. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    Mike Rapkoch:

    James Of England:

    Perhaps in the Roger Scruton school:

    But Francis doesn’t agree with that. Scruton’s criticism of capitalism is that it makes the poor richer, but that is not enough. Francis denies that it makes the poor richer. While Scruton gives time and respect to the views of Marx, which are in this respect considerably to Francis’ right (Marx believed that the capitalist system lifted people out of poverty, which is why it allowed society to progress to a communist system), he does not agree with the leftist attack on inequality, as Francis does.

    Scruton bases his environmental conservatism in gratitude and appreciation for the Earth’s beauty. Francis thinks that the Earth looks like a huge ball of filth. Scruton argues for weakening international government, Francis for strengthening it. Scruton thinks conservatism begins with “the sentiment that good things are easily destroyed, but not easily created.” Francis tells his acolytes to “make a mess”.

    Scruton openly talks about being left wing on some issues. Agreeing with him on those issues does not make you a conservative, any more than Sanders agreeing with Paul on prison sentencing and some foreign policy makes Sanders a conservative, or Clinton agreeing with Fiorina about the importance of protections against sexual harassment makes Clinton a conservative.

    Agreeing with Scruton on areas where Scruton agreed with conservatives would be helpful.

    I should note the general disclaimer that the Pope is more conservative than Scruton on abortion and SSM, but even when the Pope disagrees with Scruton in that direction it is not an endorsement of the claim that he is in Scruton’s school.

    • #65
  6. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    donald todd:

    EThompson:

    The Pope is not concerned with numbers. He’s concerned with persons.

    Nonsense. This pope is certainly concerned with recruitment which is precisely why most Protestants distrust the Vatican in the first place.

    E, are you now going to flog the poor for being hungry? Or perhaps display your checkbook to the Lord?

    I’m going to flog support of corrupt and totalitarian regimes for creating millions of poor and hungry persons.

    As for my checkbook, I’ll simply reiterate the values with which I was raised:

    The Protestant work ethic (or the Puritan work ethic) is a concept in theologysociologyeconomics and history which emphasizes that hard work and frugality are a result of a person’s salvation in the Protestant faith, particularly in Calvinism, in contrast to the focus upon religious attendance, confession, and ceremonial sacrament in the Catholic tradition.

    • #66
  7. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    EThompson: I’m going to flog support of corrupt and totalitarian regimes for creating millions of poor and hungry persons.

    Are you coming to the Reagan Library meetup? I so rarely get to offer legal advice without the disclaimer that I am not a [state] lawyer, so allow me to say: It is an offense under the laws of California to flog supporters of corrupt and totalitarian regimes without their consent. It’s not one of those laws that they overlook, either. As such, please refrain from assaults even on the most obnoxious of leftists, at the very least until after the meetup.

    • #67
  8. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    James Of England:

    EThompson: I’m going to flog support of corrupt and totalitarian regimes for creating millions of poor and hungry persons.

    Are you coming to the Reagan Library meetup? I so rarely get to offer legal advice without the disclaimer that I am not a [state] lawyer, so allow me to say: It is an offense under the laws of California to flog supporters of corrupt and totalitarian regimes without their consent. It’s not one of those laws that they overlook, either. As such, please refrain from assaults even on the most obnoxious of leftists, at the very least until after the meetup.

    How disappointing.

    • #68
  9. Mike Rapkoch Member
    Mike Rapkoch
    @MikeRapkoch

    James Of England:

    Mike Rapkoch:

    James Of England:

    Perhaps in the Roger Scruton school:

    But Francis doesn’t agree with that. Scruton’s criticism of capitalism is that it makes the poor richer, but that is not enough. Francis denies that it makes the poor richer. While Scruton gives time and respect to the views of Marx, which are in this respect considerably to Francis’ right (Marx believed that the capitalist system lifted people out of poverty, which is why it allowed society to progress to a communist system), he does not agree with the leftist attack on inequality, as Francis does.

    Scruton bases his environmental conservatism in gratitude and appreciation for the Earth’s beauty. Francis thinks that the Earth looks like a huge ball of filth. Scruton argues for weakening international government, Francis for strengthening it. Scruton thinks conservatism begins with “the sentiment that good things are easily destroyed, but not easily created.” Francis tells his acolytes to “make a mess”.

    Scruton openly talks about being left wing on some issues. Agreeing with him on those issues does not make you a conservative, any more than Sanders agreeing with Paul on prison sentencing and some foreign policy makes Sanders a conservative, or Clinton agreeing with Fiorina about the importance of protections against sexual harassment makes Clinton a conservative.

    Agreeing with Scruton on areas where Scruton agreed with conservatives would be helpful.

    I should note the general disclaimer that the Pope is more conservative than Scruton on abortion and SSM, but even when the Pope disagrees with Scruton in that direction it is not an endorsement of the claim that he is in Scruton’s school.

    All of which raises the question “what is a conservative?” Does this disqualify Ronald Reagan?

    “[There is an] absolute necessity of waging all-out war against the debauching of the environment. . . The bulldozer mentality of the past is a luxury we can no longer afford. Our roads and other public projects must be planned to prevent the destruction of scenic resources and to avoid needlessly upsetting the ecological balance.”

    • #69
  10. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    James Of England:Do you think of him as standing in the Burke/ Hayek school of conservatism, the Burke/ Kirk school, the WFB school, the Reagan school, the Pat Buchanan school, or some other?

    He’s not a political philosopher or a politician or an Anglo-Saxon. He’s a priest and a pastor.

    It’s not by promoting political conservatism that he is a friend of our brand of same in our part of the world; it’s by preaching the gospel and touching hearts and healing wounds and offering hope and and mercy and getting people back in touch with God that he advances the cause of truth and good and freedom and self-control and compassion and patriotism and mutual care and honesty and piety—all those fundamental moral values at the foundation of the civil society and ordered liberty.

    And it’s not just the fact of his preaching, but it’s his preaching in and through his personal witness of holiness and faith and profound humility, within the charism and with the great influence of his office.

    • #70
  11. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    cdor: “We know our system was designed for a religious and moral people.”, gives me pause.

    It’s not mine, you know. I got it from John Adams. :)

    cdor:I have total agreement with the moral part and, to a great extent, morality comes from religious teaching, but radical Islamists are religious and our system sure wasn’t designed for them. I say that our system was designed for enlightened people of the Judeo/Christian bent and others who are willing to work and live within those parameters and our Constitution.

    It’s true that not all religions comport with our system. But the Pope isn’t preaching all religions. He’s certainly not preaching radical Islam. Or Marxism.

    • #71
  12. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    • #72
  13. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    • #73
  14. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    J.C.B.:The characteristics which the Left claims Pope Francis possess have been prevalent in the western Church for some time. The Left claims that Francis’ lack of emphasis on the sin of abortion, contraception, homosexuality, and divorce finally makes the Catholic Church more welcoming to folks. In my observation of priests and parishes around America, those that take Pope Francis’ approach have been running the show for some time. …. VERY tolerant packaging. So many complain that the Church has been dogmatic and damning for the past 40 years and credit Francis for finally bringing a love and a softer message. But most parishes and diocese have been operated with the very philosophy that the Left wants to credit Francis with, and here we are.

    I’d say you have that about right. A friend reminded me the last time a speaker was brought in to talk about abortion at our parish was the Sunday after Obama won the 2008 election. And our priests never bring it up themselves.

    I’m a huge fan of Pope Francis’s message of Mercy, but the Church has always had a “Both/And” approach. As Bishop Barron points out, the Church makes both extravagant moral demands (be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is Perfect) and offers extravagant (Divine) Mercy to sinners.

    The reason leftists are so happy with Pope Francis is they think he’s softening the demands. So far, he’s not done much to clear up the confusion.

    • #74
  15. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    The Pope has repeatedly affirmed Church teaching in its entirety. Everything about his life and witness indicates that he is a true and faithful Catholic. And yet conservatives suspect and resent him, why? For not sounding more like us? For not denouncing sin more? For not emphasizing the things we want him to emphasize?  It reminds me, I have to say, of the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son.

    Here (speaking of both/and) is Pope Francis in his closing address to the Synod fathers last year:

    – One, a temptation to hostile inflexibility, that is, wanting to close oneself within the written word, (the letter) and not allowing oneself to be surprised by God, by the God of surprises, (the spirit); within the law, within the certitude of what we know and not of what we still need to learn and to achieve. From the time of Christ, it is the temptation of the zealous, of the scrupulous, of the solicitous and of the so-called – today – “traditionalists” and also of the intellectuals.

    – The temptation to a destructive tendency to goodness [it. buonismo], that in the name of a deceptive mercy binds the wounds without first curing them and treating them; that treats the symptoms and not the causes and the roots. It is the temptation of the “do-gooders,” of the fearful, and also of the so-called “progressives and liberals.”

    I recognize in myself the former tendency. Mea culpa. This Pope has opened my heart.

    • #75
  16. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    katievs:The Pope has repeatedly affirmed Church teaching in its entirety. Everything about his life and witness indicates that he is a true and faithful Catholic. And yet conservatives suspect and resent him, why?

    Speaking as a non-Catholic here, I suspect and resent his politics, not him. People and the gifts they give the world are more than their politics. Most of us have met at least one wonderful person doing wonderful things whose politics are nonetheless horrifying. It happens. The Pope, being a centralized figure, is inevitably more politicized than, say, a parish priest with the same politics, which renders papal politics rather more worrisome. But lousy political opinions is hardly an absolute bar to doing saintly things.

    One of my favorite saints, Gregory of Nyssa, also happened to have a lousy understanding of economics. Great understanding of the dignity of the human person, slaves included, and was the first person I know of in Christian history to advocate not only that slaveowners free their slaves, but that the very institution of slavery be abolished. But he also unfortunately believed something like financial transactions were inherently evil. So on economics he was quite mistaken. What that tells me is economics is non-obvious enough that even saints can be wrong about it.

    My hope is that Francis’s mistaken notions of highly nonobvious disciplines he doesn’t specialize in won’t undermine his ministry. But of course his ministry is far more than his opinions on these matters.

    • #76
  17. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    katievs:The Pope has repeatedly affirmed Church teaching in its entirety. Everything about his life and witness indicates that he is a true and faithful Catholic. And yet conservatives suspect and resent him, why?

    Speaking as a non-Catholic here, I suspect and resent his politics, not him.

    I’d say rather they resent what they imagine his politics to be. They project political thinking onto him, all unfittingly, in my view.

    • #77
  18. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Conrad Black at NRO today:

    At no point in his visit to the U.S. did the pope attack capitalism. Francis said to the Congress that “business is a noble vocation directed to producing wealth and improving the world,” especially when it creates jobs. He certainly championed the poor, as he did the prisoner (a particularly apposite concern, consistent with his two predecessors, considering the appalling state of U.S. criminal justice, with its 99.5 percent conviction rate, 97 percent without a trial, and its absurdly high incarceration rates). He politely recommended abolishing the death penalty, which many of the states of the Union have done, and continued on the fine environmental line he had taken in his recent encyclical Laudato Si: Environmental challenges must be met, especially environmental deterioration caused by man, and “climate change can no longer be left to a future generation.” But he did not depart from the encyclical’s statement that the Church “cannot substitute itself for politicians and scientists.” He called for “courageous actions and strategies, aimed at implementing a culture of care and an integrated approach to combating poverty, restoring dignity to the excluded, and at the same time, protecting nature.” 

    Conservatives who trash the Pope are hurting their cause.

    • #78
  19. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    Conrad Black at NRO yesterday:

    That said, the essay, “Pope Francis, Say Yes to the Pill”, by Conrad Black is simply embarrassing, and that might be an insult to embarrassing people everywhere. Black is a former newspaper publisher, a convicted felon, an historian, a pundit, and a convert to Catholicism (he was an atheist/agnostic into his 30s) with a most interesting bio. I’ve read many of his pieces over the years; he is a very good writer with many thoughtful insights into political and cultural issues. But, as he essentially admits in his ridiculous plea for the Church to embrace contraceptives, he shouldn’t be writing about matters of theology: “I do not underestimate, and am not qualified to discuss, the theological arguments involved.”

    • #79
  20. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Pseudodionysius:

    That said, the essay, “Pope Francis, Say Yes to the Pill”, by Conrad Black is simply embarrassing, and that might be an insult to embarrassing people everywhere. Black is a former newspaper publisher, a convicted felon, an historian, a pundit, and a convert to Catholicism (he was an atheist/agnostic into his 30s) with a most interesting bio. I’ve read many of his pieces over the years; he is a very good writer with many thoughtful insights into political and cultural issues. But, as he essentially admits in his ridiculous plea for the Church to embrace contraceptives, he shouldn’t be writing about matters of theology: “I do not underestimate, and am not qualified to discuss, the theological arguments involved.”

    That deserves another quote:

    There is much more that could be said. And should be said. I will keep it to two items. First, to claim the Catholic Church, by standing against contraception, “[appears] to be the party of joyless behavioral philistinism” is astonishingly misguided. It speaks to a complete failure to comprehend both the content of Church teaching and the actual situation today, in which the real “party of joyless behavioral philistinism” consists of those who promote or give a pass to free sex, contraception, pornography, cohabitation, fornication, and abortion. Granted, a lot of people make the mistake that Black is making, but he should know better. 

    I always want to ask people like Black if they think observant Catholics are having joyless sex… and then laugh!

    • #80
  21. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Oh, how I love your law! I meditate on it all day long.

    — Psalm 119:97

    As a convert, maybe Mr. Black needs to meditate on chastity within marriage a little more.

    • #81
  22. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Pope-trashing is also a form of cafeteria Catholicism, isn’t it?

    • #82
  23. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    katievs:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    katievs:The Pope has repeatedly affirmed Church teaching in its entirety. Everything about his life and witness indicates that he is a true and faithful Catholic. And yet conservatives suspect and resent him, why?

    Speaking as a non-Catholic here, I suspect and resent his politics, not him.

    I’d say rather they resent what they imagine his politics to be. They project political thinking onto him, all unfittingly, in my view.

    I think he’s making his political ideas pretty clear, though. Sure, the popular press picks up on some of his statements, not others. But just because the press repeats it doesn’t mean he didn’t say it.

    Still, being a great political thinker is not a necessary component of being an outstanding, virtuous person – thank God! Claiming, “The Pope’s politics are bad, therefore he is bad,” is just as mistaken as claiming, “The Pope’s politics are good, therefore he is good.” There’s far more to goodness than having the right political opinions.

    • #83
  24. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    I think he’s making his political ideas pretty clear, though.

    I respectfully disagree, Midge. I think politically-minded Americans project politics onto him.

    For instance, he says “social justice” and they read, “leftism.” Which is bogus. Social justice in Catholic Social Teaching is moral category, not a political one, and it challenges the left and right both.

    Contra the left: It grants private property rights; it priorities the individual over the collective; it trumpets subsidiarity over centralization of state power; it aims at establishing conditions not outcomes, etc.

    The Pope says “re-distrubtion,” and they read, “state imposed re-distrubtion.” Which is bogus. CST grants that free markets are the best means of a just distribution of wealth.

    Contra the right: CST affirms that there is such a thing as social justice, for which we are collectively responsible.

    The Pope affirms CST in its entirety. He has studied it; he believes in it; he preaches it. Conservatives and leftists misconstrue the Pope because we’re projecting our political categories onto him.

    An Italian priest friend of ours (utterly orthodox and deeply devout), who has been a missionary in South America and who has just spent 2 years in the US, told us he was truly shocked by the politicization of Catholicism he found in our country. He almost thinks we’re a lost cause (in terms of the renewal of the Church.)

    He has much more hope for Africa and Asia, where martyrdom is happening.

    • #84
  25. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Here are ways we, in our country, can work toward a more just distribution of wealth that are perfectly consistent with conservatism:

    – Through monetary policy

    – Through tax policy

    – Through tax incentives for charitable organizations

    – Through treaties and tariffs, etc.

    – Through de-regulation

    – By curbing crony capitalism

    – By fighting crime and corruption

    – By strengthening marriage

    – By working to phase out welfare dependency

    – Through judicious education and prison reforms

    A person can reject leftist solutions to social injustice without pretending social injustice doesn’t exist.

    • #85
  26. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    One of the social justices issue Bergoglio raised when he was primate in Argentina is that while masses of Argentinians were practically starving and living in slum conditions, the wealthy elite were earning billions through their labor, sending it to foreign banks, and spending it foreign countries.

    (You could say the same thing about the oil rulers of the middle east. They treat the natural riches of their country as a private family fortune. They and their cronies live lives of obscene luxury, while most of their countrymen are stuck in poverty, illiteracy and unemployment.)

    Now, what the best way to address these problems within the context of the respective countries and their laws, culture and politics is, I don’t know.

    But you don’t have to be an economist to look at the situations and deem them seriously out of whack. Something is profoundly wrong—economically and morally.

    A good system of law and culture leads to much better outcomes for the general population.

    • #86
  27. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    katievs: For instance, he says “social justice” and they read, “leftism.” Which is bogus. Social justice in Catholic Social Teaching is moral category, not a political one, and it challenges the left and right both.

    In the special case of the phrase “social justice”, I believe you have a point. Catholic teaching really does mean something specific by that phrase, and not necessarily what your average leftie might mean.

    But in other cases, what Francis has been quoted as saying about, say, ecology or economics, seems innately problematic, and not something that can be dismissed by saying there is a more nuanced, “Catholic” interpretation. He can be right on the Catholic teaching, but nonetheless wrong on the “secular facts” that are informing it.

    If I believed that pears contained a chemical that biologically inhibited our self-control, then, given this belief, my counseling that Christians should not eat pears would be consistent with Christian teaching: after all, one fruit of the Spirit is self-control, and we should not knowingly do things proven to impair the Spirit’s fruits. Yet I would still be factually wrong about the “secular fact” of pears actually doing this.

    It’s no biggie to me. We’re all undoubtedly wrong about many secular facts. Just happening to be right about them benefits Christian teaching, but it’s not the point of Christian teaching.

    • #87
  28. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    But in other cases, what Francis has been quoted as saying about, say, ecology or economics, seems innately problematic, and not something that can be dismissed by saying there is a more nuanced, “Catholic” interpretation. He can be right on the Catholic teaching, but nonetheless wrong on the “secular facts” that are informing it.

    It’s hard to answer this without specific examples.

    But being wrong on scientific facts (say) is not the same as having particular political views.

    It’s not strange or scandalous for a Pope (who, though he taught chemistry, so he’s far more scientifically-minded than most) is not a professional scientist to accept the apparent consensus on climate change. There’s nothing politically leftist about that, though it may look leftist to us.

    Nor is it leftist to call for international action on what is clearly an international problem (if it is a problem, which I doubt.)

    Same goes for problems like human trafficking and the drug trade. They’re global problems that call for global cooperation.

    • #88
  29. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Member
    Midget Faded Rattlesnake
    @Midge

    katievs:

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    But in other cases, what Francis has been quoted as saying about, say, ecology or economics, seems innately problematic, and not something that can be dismissed by saying there is a more nuanced, “Catholic” interpretation. He can be right on the Catholic teaching, but nonetheless wrong on the “secular facts” that are informing it.

    It’s hard to answer this without specific examples.

    But being wrong on scientific facts (say) is not the same as having particular political views.

    Sure, they’re not the same. But they influence each other. For example, mandatory vaccination either is or is not totalitarian, but most of those who complain the hardest about it are also those who doubt the safety of vaccines (most – there are some who believe anti-vaxxers are being stupid who nonetheless oppose mandatory vaccination). Likewise, climate change, as you mentioned, and – if you’re willing to call economics a science (I am, though I agree it’s not a hard science) – economics: different beliefs about how humans function economically tends to nudge people into differing politics, and vice-versa.

    But all of this is part of why I feel free to disagree with the Pope’s politics without needing to claim that his politics are a scandal.

    • #89
  30. katievs Inactive
    katievs
    @katievs

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

     …different beliefs about how humans function economically tends to nudge people into differing politics, and vice-versa.

    But all of this is part of why I feel free to disagree with the Pope’s politics without needing to claim that his politics are a scandal.

    Well, there’s no doubt: different beliefs and concerns tend to nudge people toward different politics.

    But, 1) the Pope is not an American and he isn’t speaking within the American political context, and 2) from the fact that Americans who are “into climate change” tend to vote Democrat in the US, we can’t assume that since the Pope is into climate change, he must therefore have leftist politics.

    This is all the more the case considering his strong stands against gay marriage and abortion, and his strong stand in favor of religious liberty against the leftist downgrade to freedom of worship.

    I’m sure I’ve mentioned before that he was a staunch opponent of liberation theology in Argentina.

    That, on top of staunch doctrinal orthodoxy, gave him a distinct reputation for conservatism down there.

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.