Can You Imagine that Debate Without Carly Fiorina?

 

Carly_fiorina_speakingI only just finished watching the debate a minute ago and I have already forgotten everything that was said. Honestly who here feels the same way? If there is one thing I learned from this debate it is that they need to have a third higher level of debate reserved for Carly Fiorina. She was the only person on that stage that was actually interesting (with a small caveat for my man crush Rubio who I think always give good answers, but who seemed to be mostly ignored in this debate). She fought her way into the conversation and she laid the smack down on every question. Can anyone recall a bad answer from her? She even managed to give a great put down of that 10 dollar bill question.

Aside from Fiorina, the only real other story out of this debate is just how bad it was. Did Hugh Hewitt even ask any questions? I know he did, but if you were just tooning in and out of the debate I doubt you ever saw any candidate answering one of his. This CNN/Salem thing was a farce. Talk about being a token conservative. Also the early round of questions were an embarrassment for CNN and Jake Tapper. The goal of a debate isn’t to get the candidates fighting like schoolchildren about the immature things Trump has said. It is to move the discussion beyond that. I’m sure it will give people a lot of gossip and saucy sound clips to play, but this is more suited to a reality TV show than a respectable news organization. I really thought much more of Jake Tapper, whose show on CNN has always seemed above par when I have caught it.

I think the next Debate needs to be smaller, hopefully this will just happen naturally, but if it doesn’t I don’t see much reason for Rand, Huckabee, and Christie to be there next time. Hopefully a few others drop out too.

So, over all it was a great night for Carly. Of course I fully expect that Donald Trump will go up another 5 points in the polls.

What did you guys think of Carly, or anyone else. Give me and Ricochet your honest assessment, also place your bet on how much better Trump will do then what any rational person expects.

Published in Politics
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 90 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    TaleenaS:Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    Man, has Cruz got an annoying look and voice! It’s too bad, because he’s got a lot of good things to say.

    I’m curious how you square these two thoughts.

    • #61
  2. TaleenaS Member
    TaleenaS
    @TaleenaS

    Robert McReynolds:

    TaleenaS:Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    Man, has Cruz got an annoying look and voice! It’s too bad, because he’s got a lot of good things to say.

    I’m curious how you square these two thoughts.

    What, because Trump was backing off from the insults means I have to? I called Christie a Democrat, Paul a nut, Huckabee a shyster, Kasich an illustration of what’s wrong with politics, and that is the one that bothered you enough to call it out? I like Cruz, but he can be off putting in his delivery.

    • #62
  3. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    V the K:…[snip]…

    So, suddenly, everybody is enthralled with a candidate who supported the TARP bailout, supports the Export-Import Bank, outsourced thousands of job overseas during her tenure as a Corporate CEO, favors the import of cheap labor via H1-B visas, and supports the Dream Act…

    Hang on, isn’t there more to it?  The black mark here should be for working for McCain. It would have been impossible for her to come out against the bailout while she was associated with the campaign.  She did criticize TARP early and often immediately following the election.

    AFAIK, she does not support the Ex-Im Bank, and has advocated for its abolition. It is possible that HP benefited from Ex-Im during her tenure, but is that seriously a strike against her?

    Re: outsourcing, nobody likes it until they look at sticker prices. The larger issue is corporate taxation. Our current code kills competitiveness.  For more depth than I can provide, see here.  Fiorina supported the H1-B program while at HP, but has since argued that it was then a more tightly controlled program, and that it is currently being abused.  I would argue that this, too, comes back to taxation and over-regulation.

    Your best criticism is of her stance on the Dream Act.  Her version would give some status to children of illegals, but not to the parents.  I also think her interpretation of the 14th Amendment is incorrect.  Rand Paul was correct there.

    • #63
  4. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    TaleenaS: Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    I have this vision of President Trump giving a state-of-the-union speech.

    • “It’s nice to see Vice-President Howard Stern sitting behind me. Hey, Howard, Bababooey.”
    • “There’s Rand Paul sitting there, with his one percent in the polls. Thought you’d be up here? What a loser.”
    • “Hey, Ruth, try not to fall asleep. You might wake up dead.”
    • “Who wants one of these hats? Most of you senators should wear one to cover up your bald spots.”
    • “The chairman of the joint chiefs is here tonight. General, you’re fired. I’ll be replacing him with someone who knows how to win. My nominee for chairman didn’t actually serve in the military, but he went to the same military school I did.”
    • “My wife is here tonight. She’s sitting next to one of the Dreamers. Guards, arrest that man and have him deported.”
    • “The Trump Wall on the Mexican border is finished. People doubted me when I claimed that the Mexicans would pay for it. Well, the doubters didn’t figure on me installing one peso slots on the Mexican side. If you hit the jackpot you get a green card. In the first month we’ve raked in 500 million pesos and only given away 200 green cards.”
    • #64
  5. Theodoric of Freiberg Member
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    From what I’ve seen so far, Carly Fiorina is the best in the field at answering tough questions with confidence, knowledge and substance. She is great at framing issues and is not afraid of the left-wing media. I don’t know what kind of a president she would make, but she is one of the few candidates I’ve ever seen who states the conservative case very well (like Reagan did).

    At this point, a Rubio/Fiorina ticket (in either order) looks like a winner (as long as Marco has learned his lesson on immigration).

    • #65
  6. Theodoric of Freiberg Member
    Theodoric of Freiberg
    @TheodoricofFreiberg

    Man With the Axe:

    TaleenaS: Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    I have this vision of President Trump giving a state-of-the-union speech.

    • “It’s nice to see Vice-President Howard Stern sitting behind me. Hey, Howard, Bababooey.”……

    Very funny! I’ve always thought of Trump as the Howard Stern “I’m the king of all media” candidate.

    • #66
  7. Pugshot Member
    Pugshot
    @Pugshot

    The ticket should be Fiorina/Rubio. Cruz can be Attorney General – he could do some serious reformation there! Christie could be in charge of HUD.

    But the main problem right now is having debates. Given the format, they’re pointless. As shown last night, the networks are only interested in having them degenerate into back-alley brawls. If the networks were serious about providing a forum for the American voters to learn about the candidates, they’d bring everyone of the candidates to the television studio and then, one-by-one, have them go into a room – by themselves – with a panel of questioners. They’d get to make an introductory statement (3-5 minutes) and then be asked questions for 20 minutes or so – serious questions about foreign and domestic policy, not “gotcha” questions. They’d be allowed to make a 2-minute closing statement. Then they’d be ushered out and the next candidate would take their place to undergo the same questions. None of them would know the questions beforehand; none of them would know how the other candidates answered the questions. The network(s) would then air the 30-minute (commercial-free) segments in randomly selected order. It would be necessary, of course, to do this over the course of several nights.

    I understand the difficulties posed by this format, not least of which (from the networks’ perspective) would be the loss of commercial revenue and, perhaps, viewer ratings. Perhaps it would have to be conducted on Public Television – this is exactly the sort of thing it should be doing. But if we’re actually serious about getting serious answers to serious questions, then some type of format along these general lines is necessary. The current debate format is for children; we need a format for adults.

    • #67
  8. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Man With the Axe:Rubio and Fiorina in either order.

    Just heard on Fox that Carly was chairman of the CIA’s external advisory board with a top secret security clearance, and she knows foreign policy inside and out.

    Trump, on the other hand, disappeared during the discussion on foreign policy. All he would be able to say is “I’ll appoint great people.” Or, “I’ll know so much by the time I take office.”

    Do you believe him? I don’t.

    You know I have been thinking about Trumps stupid I will hire great people doge, which he employees anytime he seems unable to answer a difficult question. I want someone to follow up those answers with this question.

    “Okay Mr. Trump, you say you will hire the best generals. What criteria, specifically, will indicate to you that a general is “the best”?”

    • #68
  9. Carey J. Inactive
    Carey J.
    @CareyJ

    Theodoric of Freiberg:…

    At this point, a Rubio/Fiorina ticket (in either order) looks like a winner (as long as Marco has learned his lesson on immigration).

    And that’s the question. Has he learned his lesson, and more importantly, what lesson did he learn? If all he learned is that cooperating with Democrats, in general, and Schumer, in particular is a bad idea, then he learned the wrong lesson, and I don’t want him as my president.

    If all he’s learned is that support for amnesty makes the base mad and will cost him votes, that’s not the right lesson, either, because he still thinks the base is a bunch of nativist bigots who just don’t like brown people.

    • #69
  10. Michael Sanregret Inactive
    Michael Sanregret
    @TheQuestion

    wilber forge:Took a pass on the debate so as to let the dust settle permitting a more calm evaluation after most have weighed in.

    By some odd turn, viewed an unexpected film on Netflix titled Iron Skies.

    A Euro made film with Nazi’s colonizing the dark side of the moon in 45 and then trying to engage in a space war to recapture the grandure of theReich. Ghastly lefty driven politically driven film.

    Will recap the debate, but will expect a similar outcome.

    Yes, I started watching that too, but didn’t finish.  Republicans and Sarah Palin are basically Nazis.  Very subtle.

    • #70
  11. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Amy Schley:Oh, and on the subject of medicine, Huckabee apparently decided to pander to the medical conspiracy theory crowd. Does he really think no one is actually trying to find a cure for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and Alzheimer’s because there’s more money to be made in managing those conditions?

    I thoughts Huckabee’s cure cancer comment was the most ignorant thing I heard in that whole debate. There can be no cure for cancer, because cancer isn’t a specific disease. It is a whole set of different problems with very similar traits, and numerous probable causes. On top of that we do actually have very effective treatments for numerous cancers, from surgery to chemotherapy. Those are the cure! But, you will never really be able to stop cancer because it represents the inevitable breakdown of a natural process, as long as cells in your body keep dividing you will be at risk for developing cancer.

    • #71
  12. EThompson Inactive
    EThompson
    @EThompson

    Lazy_Millennial:Before this debate, I was okish with a Rubio/Fiorina ticket. Now, I NEED a Fiorina/Rubio ticket.

    I was thinking I’d be happy with either combo, but I think I’d give Rubio the nod for top spot because he does serve on the Armed Forces Committee and may have a bit more of an insider’s knowledge of world affairs.

    It would be fun to see Carly debate Hillary however! :)

    • #72
  13. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    Echoing the subject header:

    “Can you imagine that debate without Donald Trump?”

    (Sigh. Yes. Yes, I can. And it would have been wonderful.)

    • #73
  14. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Carey J.:

    Theodoric of Freiberg:…

    At this point, a Rubio/Fiorina ticket (in either order) looks like a winner (as long as Marco has learned his lesson on immigration).

    And that’s the question. Has he learned his lesson, and more importantly, what lesson did he learn? If all he learned is that cooperating with Democrats, in general, and Schumer, in particular is a bad idea, then he learned the wrong lesson, and I don’t want him as my president.

    If all he’s learned is that support for amnesty makes the base mad and will cost him votes, that’s not the right lesson, either, because he still thinks the base is a bunch of nativist bigots who just don’t like brown people.

    I get the impression that he is a genuine patriot who wants to solve the myriad problems surrounding immigration in the way that is best for the country. That might not be the same way that you think is best, but I have no reason to doubt his motives.

    • #74
  15. DrewInWisconsin Member
    DrewInWisconsin
    @DrewInWisconsin

    By the way, over on the Enemy Message Board I frequent, even the lefties who infest the place are noticing how well Fiorina did. They still must declare their hate for her because she’s a Republican, and that’s required. But they took notice and thought she did well.

    • #75
  16. PHCheese Inactive
    PHCheese
    @PHCheese

    So is Trump in the race to settle an old score with a Bush the same reason Ross Perot was with GHB

    • #76
  17. Jo Ann Rogers Inactive
    Jo Ann Rogers
    @JoAnnRogers

    It seems to me a young first-term senator could learn a lot as vice president under a chief executive officer who has had experience being a chief executive. Fiorina/Rubio

    • #77
  18. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Man With the Axe:

    TaleenaS: Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    I have this vision of President Trump giving a state-of-the-union speech.

    I think It would go something like this.

    • This is going to be the greatest inaugural address ever! you won’t even be able to believe how good it will be. Honestly.
    • The best people wrote it. I know they are the best because I hired them.
    • Better than Lincoln’s second inaugural which was like only two pages. That isn’t even speech, more like a remark.
    • Ivanka told me last night how good it was, and you know I think Ivanka is always right. Isn’t she great?
    • No one thought I would give this speech they all said. No President Trump you can’t possibly say this or that. But they were all stupid so I fired them, and then got the best people. Who told me I should give it.
    • So now I’m giving it, because really you have to hear it. Its a yuge speech. The best I’ve ever done.
    • Now lets Make America Great! God Bless Me…
    • (Trump walks off stage)
    • #78
  19. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    DrewInWisconsin:Echoing the subject header:

    “Can you imagine that debate without Donald Trump?”

    (Sigh. Yes. Yes, I can. And it would have been wonderful.)

    I agree….

    • #79
  20. HeartofAmerica Inactive
    HeartofAmerica
    @HeartofAmerica

    John Penfold:Carson’s Afghanistan comments showed the importance of real world experience an minimum wage support is a litmus test for economic illiteracy, willingness to demagogue an issue or fear of truth. Very disappointing. Lots of talent up there but Carly is from a different league. CNN tried to shut her down. Disgusting.

    I totally think that CNN tried to shut her down. They don’t want the world to know that we have a forceful, intelligent woman as a GOP candidate.

    However, I bet you if they had let her in, someone(s) would be quick to point out that there was sexism involved because it appeared that they were giving her preferential treatment.

    • #80
  21. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    V the K:The logic of the Fiorengi eludes me. The biggest problem with the GOP is that it favors the interests of the US Chamber of Commerce (i.e. Big Business) over the middle class; i.e. Amnesty and Corporate Welfare.

    So, suddenly, everybody is enthralled with a candidate who supported the TARP bailout, supports the Export-Import Bank, outsourced thousands of job overseas during her tenure as a Corporate CEO, favors the import of cheap labor via H1-B visas, and supports the Dream Act.

    Seriously, in a just world, Carly Fiorina would be forced to drop out of the race after training her H1-B replacement.

    I would like to respond to this.

    This is my biggest reservation about Carly. From her background she is your quintessential establishment/Chamber of Commerce type Republican. However, if you listen to what she says in her campaign speeches, interviews, and debates she comes across as anti-crony, anti-regulation, anti-government.

    • #81
  22. V the K Member
    V the K
    @VtheK

    Carly Fiorina on the TARP bailout, it wasn’t big enough: “I think what the market is coming to grips with is the $700 billion bailout was important, it was necessary, but it wasn’t sufficient.” (Interview with Greta Van Susteren, 10/08/2008) She was also supportive of the Obama Stimulus to the degree that it dumped money into the Tech Sector.

    Carly Fiorina supported Cap and Trade in 2008: “John McCain will create a cap-and-trade system that will encourage the development of alternative energy sources.” Then, flip-flopped in 2010 and came out against it. She is also on record supporting Common Core. (I thought the reason Jeb was unacceptable was because he supported the DREAM Act and Common Core.)

    If Trump’s past support for left-wing policies is fair game, so is hers.

    • #82
  23. HeartofAmerica Inactive
    HeartofAmerica
    @HeartofAmerica

    I don’t know who is hosting the next debate but I’d love to see all of them turn their talking points back at the Democrats. That’s who we are running against, not just Donald Trump. Enough of the “did you hear what The Donald said about you?” Stop taking the bait!!

    Time to start pointing fingers and reminding folks why our ideas are better and theirs have proved to be horrendous for eight years.

    • #83
  24. Dad Dog Member
    Dad Dog
    @DadDog

    Man With the Axe: Can’t wait for the Dem debate when it will be start to finish climate change, income inequality, black lives matter (we support them), living wage, student loans, and our great Iran deal, which we all support.

    And, whoever gets the Democratic nomination, the running mate will be LGBT (you read it here first).

    • #84
  25. Topher Inactive
    Topher
    @Topher

    Tapper should be fired.

    Fiorina/Rubio for Pres/Vice!

    • #85
  26. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    1.  Too many positives based on how people looked or performed rather than on what they said or believe.

    2.  Too many folks want someone who can work with the other side and get along with Congress.  Isn’t that why the Republicans are in big trouble and Trump has risen?  Give us more of the same and the anger will doom the party.

    • #86
  27. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    V the K:Carly Fiorina on the TARP bailout, it wasn’t big enough: “I think what the market is coming to grips with is the $700 billion bailout was important, it was necessary, but it wasn’t sufficient.” (Interview with Greta Van Susteren, 10/08/2008)

    [snip]

    Note the date of the Greta interview: before the election while she was still working for McCain.  Here she is on Meet the Press on 12/14/2008 (scroll down for Carly):

    So I think we have to go back to the root of this problem, ultimately, which is credit is still unavailable.  And that is despite massive bailouts of big financial institutions who are still not lending.  And I think we also have to remember in this debate about the automakers, whether it’s a $15 billion bailout or a $30 billion bailout…that won’t save the auto industry.”

    And later on:

    “But the reason I keep talking about small business is because small businesses are the engine of job creation in this country.  Two-thirds of the jobs come from small-business owners.  So we have to make it easier for small businesses to form and hire and grow and prosper.  Tax policy can help with that, absolutely.  But I also think it’s important to realize that businesses, whether they’re large, medium or small, businesses want to have some certainty about the–what the tax climate is, so that they can plan.”

    • #87
  28. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    V the K: [snip]Carly Fiorina supported Cap and Trade in 2008: “John McCain will create a cap-and-trade system that will encourage the development of alternative energy sources.” Then, flip-flopped in 2010 and came out against it. She is also on record supporting Common Core. (I thought the reason Jeb was unacceptable was because he supported the DREAM Act and Common Core.)

    If Trump’s past support for left-wing policies is fair game, so is hers.

    Re: common core, do you have a link?  I have never seen anything to indicate Fiorina supports it.  She certainly does not now.

    Fiorina defended Cap and Trade in McCain’s campaign in 2008.  In 2010, however, she said,

    “Look, I’m not defending John McCain’s cap and trade proposals, I was acting at that time as a surrogate for him, I’m running for the U.S. senate today, I’m on the ballot, not John McCain.”

    From the article:

    Fiorina points to penalties that green house gas emitters will pay under the current regulations.

    “Why would we put our state at a competitive disadvantage? Why would we put our nation at a competitive disadvantage particularly when we are bleeding jobs?” Fiorina asked.”

    • #88
  29. Robert McReynolds Inactive
    Robert McReynolds
    @RobertMcReynolds

    TaleenaS:

    Robert McReynolds:

    TaleenaS:Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    Man, has Cruz got an annoying look and voice! It’s too bad, because he’s got a lot of good things to say.

    I’m curious how you square these two thoughts.

    What, because Trump was backing off from the insults means I have to? I called Christie a Democrat, Paul a nut, Huckabee a shyster, Kasich an illustration of what’s wrong with politics, and that is the one that bothered you enough to call it out? I like Cruz, but he can be off putting in his delivery.

    Wait a second here, you used the word “gratuitous” right before you “gratuitously” attacked Cruz. I’m just wondering how you square that logic. Are you taking a slight page out of the Trumpter’s playbook? Maybe a paragraph?

    • #89
  30. TaleenaS Member
    TaleenaS
    @TaleenaS

    Robert McReynolds: Wait a second here, you used the word “gratuitous” right before you “gratuitously” attacked Cruz. I’m just wondering how you square that logic. Are you taking a slight page out of the Trumpter’s playbook? Maybe a paragraph?

    I was running down my impressions of the candidates on stage. I noted that Trump, who is known for his boisterous “fight”, often peppered with insults that have no bearing on the merits of his argument (OK Doc? Calling Rand ugly? -unless he attributed Rand’s appearance as the cause of his low poll numbers), was toned down.

    I also noted that I liked Cruz’s ideas but his look and voice were annoying. I am hardly the first person to note the fact. I doubt I will be the last. Perhaps it IS insulting, but I think hardly unwarrented (a nice good synonym for gratuitous) given that Cruz’s demeanour, delivery, and style are often discussed as divisive to his audience. “More Baptist preacher than the actual Baptist preacher”.

    I thought I was kindest in my evaluations of Fiorina, Rubio and Cruz.  Shall even the mildest of critques now be attacks?

    • #90
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.