Can You Imagine that Debate Without Carly Fiorina?

 

Carly_fiorina_speakingI only just finished watching the debate a minute ago and I have already forgotten everything that was said. Honestly who here feels the same way? If there is one thing I learned from this debate it is that they need to have a third higher level of debate reserved for Carly Fiorina. She was the only person on that stage that was actually interesting (with a small caveat for my man crush Rubio who I think always give good answers, but who seemed to be mostly ignored in this debate). She fought her way into the conversation and she laid the smack down on every question. Can anyone recall a bad answer from her? She even managed to give a great put down of that 10 dollar bill question.

Aside from Fiorina, the only real other story out of this debate is just how bad it was. Did Hugh Hewitt even ask any questions? I know he did, but if you were just tooning in and out of the debate I doubt you ever saw any candidate answering one of his. This CNN/Salem thing was a farce. Talk about being a token conservative. Also the early round of questions were an embarrassment for CNN and Jake Tapper. The goal of a debate isn’t to get the candidates fighting like schoolchildren about the immature things Trump has said. It is to move the discussion beyond that. I’m sure it will give people a lot of gossip and saucy sound clips to play, but this is more suited to a reality TV show than a respectable news organization. I really thought much more of Jake Tapper, whose show on CNN has always seemed above par when I have caught it.

I think the next Debate needs to be smaller, hopefully this will just happen naturally, but if it doesn’t I don’t see much reason for Rand, Huckabee, and Christie to be there next time. Hopefully a few others drop out too.

So, over all it was a great night for Carly. Of course I fully expect that Donald Trump will go up another 5 points in the polls.

What did you guys think of Carly, or anyone else. Give me and Ricochet your honest assessment, also place your bet on how much better Trump will do then what any rational person expects.

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  1. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    DocJay:Donald Trump has a psychiatric disorder.

    Only one, Doc?

    • #31
  2. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    DocJay:I don’t know Leigh, there’s lots of people who wanted Trump taken down and he can hang himself with enough rope.I see your point though.

    Well, I see that point too.

    What I really mean is that I suspect you and Preibus are on the same page with regards to Trump. And potentially even with regards to Walker, though he wouldn’t drop a hint what he really wants.

    • #32
  3. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    In my house, we liked Carly. She needs to smile more, though. She was too severe and intense.

    • #33
  4. Liz Member
    Liz
    @Liz

    Ditto all who liked Fiorina and Rubio.  Christie did all right, but I’m still not interested.

    I thought Tapper was terrible.  Disappointing, because I’ve always found him intelligent and even-handed.  Hewitt made no impression at all;  I can’t remember what he asked.

    Also, it is hard not to read sinister motives into the temperature-control issues they were having in the Library.  The men were pouring sweat. Easy way to make the Repubs look icky?

    • #34
  5. Mate De Inactive
    Mate De
    @MateDe

    MBF:All I remember is that the candidates somehow meandered sideways into an actually serious policy debate about social security, and were promptly cut off by Tapper so that he could ask a series of very important questions about… climate change?

    Yes!! That drove me crazy when he did that. I was like what, what who cares about climate change entitlements is a REAL problem. Tapper was probably thinking, I need to get some climate denier sound bites for the environmentalist wackos.

    • #35
  6. Illiniguy Member
    Illiniguy
    @Illiniguy

    MBF:All I remember is that the candidates somehow meandered sideways into an actually serious policy debate about social security, and were promptly cut off by Tapper so that he could ask a series of very important questions about… climate change?

    Totally agree. Who on the Republican side has not made his/her position known on climate change? Pure gotcha, knowing that for the Democrats it’s one of the sacraments. And while there’s a vocal minority to whom vaccines and autism are important, what in God’s name is it doing on a Presidential debate?

    I’m still hanging in there with Walker, as the position papers he’s issued in the past weeks are thoughtful and very detailed. I just hope he can hang in there until Trump finally flames out and, though it hurts me to say it, Ben Carson comes to the realization that he shouldn’t be running for President. He faded badly last night.

    • #36
  7. Nick Stuart Inactive
    Nick Stuart
    @NickStuart

    So much for the RNC taking control, or even exerting influence, over the primary debates.

    A portent of things to come in the general that doesn’t augur well.

    • #37
  8. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Illiniguy: And while there’s a vocal minority to whom vaccines and autism are important, what in God’s name is it doing on a Presidential debate?

    I have to say, I was massively disappointed in Carson on that one. A pediatric neurosurgeon who can’t just say, “There have been no studies that show a link between vaccines and autism and hundreds of studies that show no link at all”?  That was the one question that he could speak to from real knowledge (presumably) and he goes wishy-washy?  Sorry, if he can’t speak forcefully on that, what can he ever speak forcefully about?

    • #38
  9. John Penfold Member
    John Penfold
    @IWalton

    Carson’s Afghanistan comments showed  the importance of real world experience an  minimum wage support is a litmus test for economic illiteracy, willingness to demagogue an issue or fear of truth.  Very disappointing.   Lots of talent up there but Carly is from a different league.  CNN tried to shut her down.  Disgusting.

    • #39
  10. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Oh, and on the subject of medicine, Huckabee apparently decided to pander to the medical conspiracy theory crowd.  Does he really think no one is actually trying to find a cure for cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and Alzheimer’s because there’s more money to be made in managing those conditions?

    • #40
  11. V the K Member
    V the K
    @VtheK

    The logic of the Fiorengi eludes me. The biggest problem with the GOP is that it favors the interests of the US Chamber of Commerce (i.e. Big Business) over the middle class; i.e. Amnesty and Corporate Welfare.

    So, suddenly, everybody is enthralled with a candidate who supported the TARP bailout, supports the Export-Import Bank, outsourced thousands of job overseas during her tenure as a Corporate CEO, favors the import of cheap labor via H1-B visas, and supports the Dream Act.

    Seriously, in a just world, Carly Fiorina would be forced to drop out of the race after training her H1-B replacement.

    • #41
  12. Eugene Kriegsmann Member
    Eugene Kriegsmann
    @EugeneKriegsmann

    I was only able to watch part of the debate near the beginning. I don’t have TV and had to use a very shaky, poorly streamed version on my computer. What did see was definitely an attempt to wrest control of the debate away from Trump who had dominated the last one. The other candidates, Fiorina in the lead, simply did not allow Trump to suck oxygen out of the room the way he did the last time. He is an obnoxious, bullying, windbag when allowed to be so. He wasn’t given the opportunity last night from what I saw. The adults took charge last night despite CNN’s attempt to create a cat fight.

    Was it Bush who accused Trump of attempting to set up a casino in his state which Bush  blocked? I would really like the hear the whole story on that one. If what was said about Trump was true, it blew his credibility completely to pieces. I am sure the Tweets will be flying this morning as Trump attempts to undo the damage.

    • #42
  13. Amy Schley Moderator
    Amy Schley
    @AmySchley

    Eugene Kriegsmann: Was it Bush who accused Trump of attempting to set up a casino in his state which Bush  blocked? I would really like the hear the whole story on that one. If what was said about Trump was true, it blew his credibility completely to pieces. I am sure the Tweets will be flying this morning as Trump attempts to undo the damage.

    Here’s the story:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/debate-donald-trump-florida-gaming-213765

    Trump’s biggest shot at getting at getting a casino deal was in 1998, when Bush was mounting his first successful campaign for governor and the developer was in talks with the Seminole Tribe of Florida, which wanted Las Vegas-style casinos. … Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts cut its largest check to the Republican Party of Florida: $50,000. … Bush denied anything to do with the money—in contrast with his statement Wednesday night when he said Trump “gave me money.” However, Bush has remained consistently anti-gambling. And by late fall of that year, it was clear he was going to win. And he made clear that he wasn’t going to approve a gambling deal.

    After Bush became governor, in 1999, news reports showed that Trump was again interested in a deal with the Seminoles. And the Seminoles kept pushing for more gambling. But Bush and the GOP Legislature wouldn’t approve.

    • #43
  14. Scott R Member
    Scott R
    @ScottR

    Anybody notice Cruz was itching to enter the climate change discussion to proudly proclaim himself a skeptic, a label the others were trying to avoid? Would have been a great moment, one that hopefully will come up in the future.

    Not a big fan of Rand, but he did well arguing for caution in foreign policy — much better than Kasich, who tried to fill the same space. There’s an important role for Rand on that stage.

    Like Fiorina? Send her money. She simply can’t compete for the top spot without much more cash and organization. And now that she’s firmly established as serious and first-tier, the next step is a smile or two, as someone suggested above.

    Rubio great as always.

    Trump will find some face-saving way to drop out before a vote is cast. Status as a literal loser is not something his ego or his brand could bear. If he can’t win (and he can’t), then he can’t run.

    • #44
  15. TaleenaS Member
    TaleenaS
    @TaleenaS

    The anti-vaxxer stuff was nutty.

    Kasich was a walking, talking illustration of Carly’s “fish swim in water” analogy.

    Trump was visibly straining at the leash his handlers snapped on him in an effort to stop with the gratuitous insults.

    Huckabee and Paul both start off OK until they remind you that one is a Shyster and the other is Ron Paul’s son.

    Man, has Cruz got an annoying look and voice! It’s too bad, because he’s got a lot of good things to say.

    Go home to your lovely wife Jeb, America will not elect a 3rd Bush to the White House.

    Ben Carson proved once again that sterling person will not necessarily translate into a stellar candidate.

    Christie was the token Democrat that no longer has a home within the Democratic Party.

    Rubio speaking makes me forget the policy disagreements I have with him.

    Fiorina had the two most genuinely passionate and moving moments of the night: PP/Iran which made me tear up (good on her for being specific about the content of the videos  – it grounded the visceral horror the way saying the word “abortion” doesn’t. Showing not telling) and the drug legalization moment talking about her daughter. My 14 year old son was audibly scoffing at Paul’s “for the children” pot plea.

    • #45
  16. Jager Coolidge
    Jager
    @Jager

    Lazy_Millennial:Before this debate, I was okish with a Rubio/Fiorina ticket. Now, I NEED a Fiorina/Rubio ticket.

    I would love to see Fiorina debate Clinton. I have to believe that Rubio would greatly outshine whomever the democrats run as VP.

    • #46
  17. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    V the K: So, suddenly, everybody is enthralled with a candidate who supported the TARP bailout, supports the Export-Import Bank, outsourced thousands of job overseas during her tenure as a Corporate CEO, favors the import of cheap labor via H1-B visas, and supports the Dream Act.

    The candidate leading the polls was a Hillary contributor, gave money to the Clinton Crime family, was a registered Democrat as recent as 2009, has had 4 bankruptcies, cautioned Romney in 2012 not to be “mean-spirited” towards illegal immigrants, supported a ban on assault weapons, praised Canada’s single-payer health care and was involved in a lawsuit over the use of illegal immigrants.

    This is the most bizarre campaign season in my 40+ years on this planet.  I can’t imagine what my kids will deal with in another 40+ years.

    • #47
  18. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    I was very pleased with Fiorina’s policy on Putin: No More Talking.

    She understands negotiation far better than anyone else there – including DT.

    • #48
  19. EHerring Coolidge
    EHerring
    @EHerring

    My top three are Cruz, Fiorina, and Rubio, in alphabetical order.  I would put Cruz at the top and let the other two have prominence for their turn at the top.  They could prove their conservative bona fides or cull out their liberal tendencies.  I would prefer Fiorina as Sec of State.

    • #49
  20. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    Cruz sounded overly scripted and I think I’d replace Paul with Bobby Jindal.  Rubio is still the best speaker on the stage IMHO.  I need to read up on  Fiorina’s positions. She has presence and good instincts and is obviously very smart, but I need to hear more specifics.  And, much as people are anti-Washington this year, we don’t need another president who can’t interact politically with either party such as we’ve suffered through for the past 7 years.  I’m willing to believe that Fiorina’s problems at HP were not her fault necessarily, but is she an Iron Lady who has a dash of Reagan in her?  The thing is that even Washington outsiders become politicians when they are elected President and are going to have to fill that role. Let’s see the lighter side and get some sense if she plays well with others.

    • #50
  21. John Penfold Member
    John Penfold
    @IWalton

    https://www.carlyforpresident.com/answers/

    Merina Smith:”but I need to hear more specifics. ”

    In the above very clever site she touches a lot of other issues and you can ask your own.  It’s still sound bites at this point although her speech at the Reagan library provides a longer non sound bite discussion of the issues.

    • #51
  22. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    Don’t you just love the way Trump derides everyone else and calls them losers, and then after the debate acts magnanimous, calling all the participants impressive?

    He brings flip-flopping to the level of performance art.

    • #52
  23. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    Illiniguy: Pure gotcha, knowing that for the Democrats it’s one of the sacraments.

    Can’t wait for the Dem debate when it will be start to finish climate change, income inequality, black lives matter (we support them), living wage, student loans, and our great Iran deal, which we all support.

    • #53
  24. Man With the Axe Inactive
    Man With the Axe
    @ManWiththeAxe

    livingthehighlife: The candidate leading the polls was a Hillary contributor, gave money to the Clinton Crime family, was a registered Democrat as recent as 2009, has had 4 bankruptcies, cautioned Romney in 2012 not to be “mean-spirited” towards illegal immigrants, supported a ban on assault weapons, praised Canada’s single-payer health care and was involved in a lawsuit over the use of illegal immigrants.

    Nobody’s perfect.

    • #54
  25. V the K Member
    V the K
    @VtheK

    I can imagine that without Fiorino in the debate, Ted Cruz might actually have been given a chance to finish his sentences.

    • #55
  26. livingthehighlife Inactive
    livingthehighlife
    @livingthehighlife

    Man With the Axe:

    Illiniguy: Pure gotcha, knowing that for the Democrats it’s one of the sacraments.

    Can’t wait for the Dem debate when it will be start to finish climate change, income inequality, black lives matter (we support them), living wage, student loans, and our great Iran deal, which we all support.

    Don’t forget all the leading questions about how awful the GOP is, how they want to poison children and push grandma over a cliff.

    • #56
  27. Larry3435 Member
    Larry3435
    @Larry3435

    When Tapper appears in the dock at the Nuremberg Journalism Trials, will the defense of “I was only following orders” be successful?  It didn’t work the last time.  But, I am fairly confident that nobody cringed more at Tapper’s performance than the inner Tapper himself.

    Doc, according to DSM-IV, the condition Narcissistic Personality Disorder is characterized as follows:  “A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy.”  Sound at all familiar?

    • #57
  28. Merina Smith Inactive
    Merina Smith
    @MerinaSmith

    John Penfold:https://www.carlyforpresident.com/answers/

    Merina Smith:”but I need to hear more specifics. ”

    In the above very clever site she touches a lot of other issues and you can ask your own. It’s still sound bites at this point although her speech at the Reagan library provides a longer non sound bite discussion of the issues.

    Thanks!  You’re right that the answers are in sound bites, but it gave me a better overall picture of who she is.

    Here’s a shallow nit–I didn’t like the outfit she chose to wear last night.  Esposed seams and no collar–what?  I did like Ben Carson’s pin-striped light gray suit, though.  It made him stand out from the rest.  He, Rubio and Carly are the most photogenic of the group.

    • #58
  29. Johnny Dubya Inactive
    Johnny Dubya
    @JohnnyDubya

    Jager:

    Lazy_Millennial:Before this debate, I was okish with a Rubio/Fiorina ticket. Now, I NEED a Fiorina/Rubio ticket.

    I would love to see Fiorina debate Clinton. I have to believe that Rubio would greatly outshine whomever the democrats run as VP.

    I am liking the idea of Fiorina/Rubio.  They are the two most impressive candidates in the debates.  Rubio at the top of a ticket raises the question, “Do we want another relatively inexperienced young former-senator, with no executive experience, as president?”  Rubio could mature as veep and be a formidable candidate after eight years of Fiorina (I’m being optimistic).

    Carly would destroy Hillary in the debates, and she would fire up the female conservative base in particular.  I live with a member of that constituency, and she is ready to pull the lever for Fiorina.

    • #59
  30. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Sam:I thought Rubio made his presence known and had solid answers. He was reading from a script, but it’s not a bad script. Fiorino had a solid finish. They are my ticket for 2016. Rubio-Fiorino.

    Agreed Sam, they have been my ticket for at least 3 months. The only issue I am having currently is who is on the top? Right now I am leaning towards Fiorina/Rubio.

    • #60
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