Trump v Univision

 

It’s  3:00 a.m in Paris, and I’m awake owing to a cat-related incident. After realizing that no, I wasn’t going to be able to fall asleep, I checked the news. As one does. Headlining: Donald Trump kicked TV’s most influential Latino newsman out of a press conference. Oh, I thought. Is this really the most important thing happening in the world right now? To judge from the headlines, you’d think so. Here’s the first part of the exchange:

And here’s the second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7_HaEOIJhM

Two quick observations:

1) The Washington Post says, “The lasting image will be that of Ramos — who serves as Univision’s lead anchor and is effectively one of the (if not the) most powerful newsmen on Spanish-language TV — being hustled out of the room after trying to ask Trump a question.”

Perhaps. But that may be because that’s the easiest image to find. You have to work a bit harder to find the images of Ramos coming back and asking his questions. It’s not impossible. We looked for it backstage and it took us about five minutes. But clearly the Post and many other news agencies quickly decided what the “lasting image” would be and furnished it: In most of the videos in the headline news, the clip ends with Ramos being hustled off.

As you can see from the second clip, however, that’s not where the story necessarily ends. So I’m not sure the Post is correct about what the “lasting image” will be.

2) As we were looking for the full clip — not the “lasting image” clip — I said, “From abroad, it feels as if Trump is already the president.” It wasn’t a deep thought: It was just something that occurred to me. Nachtgedanken, so to speak. The Yeti said, “You should post that.” To which I responded that I wasn’t sure what I meant by it:

Claire: He gets more news coverage; he seems larger-than-life.

Yeti: I assume it means that Trump is suffocating every other candidate’s media oxygen.

Claire: Not only every other candidate — but the seated president.

I don’t know if that observation is meaningful. All I can say is that those words occurred to me while reading the news at 3:00 am in Paris.

And now I can’t sleep.

 

Published in Elections, General, Politics
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  1. Luke Thatcher
    Luke
    @Luke

    Umbra Fractus:

    inmateprof:You are correct. It amazes me how people don’t get it. We are tired of getting bullied by the left (media, education, and culture), and Trump comes along and fights. Peter on every podcast talks about wanting candidates to fight, and we have one. Is he perfect? No, but neither was Romney, McCain, Bush, Dole, and even Reagan. Full disclosure, I’m a Carly supporter, but I get Trump, and I know he’s not going away, and I appreciate his efforts.

    So the gist is that you want someone who “fights,” and whether or not he’s actually a conservative apparently doesn’t matter.

    That’s what people like me don’t get. He is, by any objective measure, to the left of everybody in the field except maybe Kasich, and yet somehow supporting him has become the litmus test for being a true conservative?

    Is he really left of center lately? I mean we say people can change their minds, but do we really believe it? Trump claims to have turned corners in his way of thinking on several subjects. Is he not the arbiter of his own positions? Or, Is his back to the future, years younger self, the arbiter of his positions?

    • #61
  2. inmateprof Inactive
    inmateprof
    @inmateprof

    Umbra Fractus:

    inmateprof:You are correct. It amazes me how people don’t

    So the gist is that you want someone who “fights,” and whether or not he’s actually a conservative apparently doesn’t matter.

    That’s what people like me don’t get. He is, by any objective measure, to the left of everybody in the field except maybe Kasich, and yet somehow supporting him has become the litmus test for being a true conservative?

    Everything you said is accurate except for the litmus test.  I’m not advocating that at all, though, I know some conservatives that do.  I’m just saying I understand why he is doing so well.  I know his history (bankruptcies, comments on women, etc.), and I know his past quotes on policies (wealth tax, Canada’s healthcare is great, etc.), but he’s striking a cord with a lot of people, and he’s saying things that people have wanted our “leaders” to say.

    Maybe if conservatives weren’t in such a bad marriage with our Republican party leadership, this wouldn’t be happening.  Conservatives have been neglected and lied to for so long that they will fall for someone like Trump even though it doesn’t make sense.

    • #62
  3. Tedley Member
    Tedley
    @Tedley

    Ramos wasn’t being civil, so he deserved to get the boot. It’s not as though he didn’t get a chance to ask his questions. He shouldn’t try acting like a Black Lives Matter protester.

    • #63
  4. The Cloaked Gaijin Member
    The Cloaked Gaijin
    @TheCloakedGaijin

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    Mike LaRoche: What I see is a pushy foreign national trying to conduct his own personal filibuster during Donald Trump’s press conference

    Ramos is a US citizen.

    Wikipedia says dual citizenship with Mexico and The United States, born in Mexico City, Mexico.

    So he’s more like Canadians/Americans such as Peter Jennings and Morley Safer who keep their loyalty to the birth nation?

    He loves his country, I guess.  We just don’t know which country that is.  Oh, I think we know.

    • #64
  5. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Fear of anarchy–Trump is exploiting the fear of anarchy that has been mounting since Obama took office the first time.

    • #65
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Post-modernist Texan? Heaven forfend!

    • #66
  7. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Luke: Is he really left of center lately? I mean we say people can change their minds, but do we really believe it? Trump claims to have turned corners in his way of thinking on several subjects. Is he not the arbiter of his own positions? Or, Is his back to the future, years younger self, the arbiter of his positions?

    Why don’t you ask all the people who continue to insist that Mitt Romney is a “progressive.” Or the ones who say they’ll never ever under any circumstances vote for Rubio or Christie because of their past policy statements. I’ve lost count of the number of candidates who’ve been declared “dead” because of past policy positions; why does Trump get a pass?

    • #67
  8. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Mike LaRoche:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    Mike LaRoche: What I see is a pushy foreign national trying to conduct his own personal filibuster during Donald Trump’s press conference

    Ramos is a US citizen.

    True, but perception is reality. Optics.

    Trump Throws Mexican Univision Anchor Jorge Ramos Out of Press Conference – The Yucatan Times

    Score one for Mike…

    • #68
  9. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    EThompson:“Sit down. You haven’t been called.”

    Honestly, how many of us have been waiting for years to hear that one?

    That may have been the single most glorious moment in US politics for years.

    • #69
  10. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    David Sussman:

    quote-i-like-a-man-who-grins-when-he-fights-winston-churchill-37181[1]

    • #70
  11. Luke Thatcher
    Luke
    @Luke

    Umbra Fractus:

    Luke: Is he really left of center lately? I mean we say people can change their minds, but do we really believe it? Trump claims to have turned corners in his way of thinking on several subjects. Is he not the arbiter of his own positions? Or, Is his back to the future, years younger self, the arbiter of his positions?

    Why don’t you ask all the people who continue to insist that Mitt Romney is a “progressive.” Or the ones who say they’ll never ever under any circumstances vote for Rubio or Christie because of their past policy statements. I’ve lost count of the number of candidates who’ve been declared “dead” because of past policy positions; why does Trump get a pass?

    Wait right there, while I get a mirror so I can ask them. I’ll be right back

    • #71
  12. Tom Riehl Inactive
    Tom Riehl
    @TrinityWaters

    inmateprof:

    Tom Riehl:This is the second thread I’ve read thoroughly about Trump, and hoping that I don’t invite disapprobation from the CoC heavyweights, I can’t understand why so many within our association of clear thinkers and intellectual heavyweights are so blind to the attraction of Trump’s message. We, the Silent Majority, the Tea Partiers, the middle class paying all the bills, have had it with rhetoric and poseurs like Boehner and McConnell who spend our children’s money, and then bow and scrape before Satan (Obama), and yield all power to his eminence. Yes, of course we’re angry! That is not a sin if directed appropriately.

    You are correct. It amazes me how people don’t get it. We are tired of getting bullied by the left (media, education, and culture), and Trump comes along and fights. Peter on every podcast talks about wanting candidates to fight, and we have one. Is he perfect? No, but neither was Romney, McCain, Bush, Dole, and even Reagan. Full disclosure, I’m a Carly supporter, but I get Trump, and I know he’s not going away, and I appreciate his efforts.

    Thanks for the backup.  I’m also amazed.  And you’re right about Carly.  Watch her go.  Her speech at the Reagan Library was spot on; I disagreed with no major point in her policy prescriptions.

    • #72
  13. Ansonia Member
    Ansonia
    @Ansonia

    Re : 68

    I’m in shock after looking at the dishonest reporting on the incident in the Yucatan Times. You actually want to pull out a credit card and donate to Trump’s campaign after reading that.

    • #73
  14. James Gawron Inactive
    James Gawron
    @JamesGawron

    Claire,

    The real question is what happens when in the next few days to a week Trump’s poll numbers go up not down. First, Ramos tried to take over the news conference. He didn’t ask a question he invaded the news conference in a false way and never stopped talking. He insisted that Trump can’t deport people and can’t call them illegal aliens. He insisted that Trump can’t win a case against birthright citizenship. All of this without having been given the microphone to ask any question in the first place.

    I don’t remember when Charles Krauthammer or any other journalist who happened to be Jewish manufactured a spectacle like this on the basis of their faith or any issue related to Judaism or Israel.

    In other news, ISIS just threw another 9 people off the top of buildings. Their crime, they were gay. Also the ISIS destruction of Antiquities has reached staggering level.

    In other news, Natalie Portman, a rather wooden actress who has traded on two things, her looks and her Israeli heritage, has made it clear she would throw Israel under the bus for yet another banal role in film and the adulation of a decadent minority. While Mayim Bialik, a Jewish actress who isn’t trading on her looks, is sabbath observant and visits Israel making no political statements but receives death threats.

    Just another day in the neighborhood.

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #74
  15. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Editor
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    @Claire

    The Cloaked Gaijin: Wikipedia says dual citizenship with Mexico and The United States, born in Mexico City, Mexico. So he’s more like Canadians/Americans such as Peter Jennings and Morley Safer who keep their loyalty to the birth nation? He loves his country, I guess.  We just don’t know which country that is.  Oh, I think we know.

    I don’t think hinting that someone with dual citizenship isn’t loyal to America is a good argument. It sounds like a cheap innuendo. He’s a naturalized US citizen. That means he’s taken this oath:

    “I h​ereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

    If your argument is that no one should be allowed to become a US citizen without relinquishing their previous citizenship, that’s a separate argument, but it’s an argument with US law, not with Ramos.

    If your argument is that Americans should default to questioning the loyalty of any citizen who wasn’t born in the United States, I don’t think it’s a good argument, either.

    Most Americans were either born in another country or are only a few generations removed from it. I can’t trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower. My grandparents were born in Germany and Poland. I’m as American as any other American citizen. I would be deeply alarmed to read that you’d looked up my name on Wikipedia, discovered that my grandparents were born in Leipzig and Warsaw, and concluded that there was something suspect about me.

    It wouldn’t seem to me a natural American impulse.

    • #75
  16. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Not that it matters very much, but Trump was wrong when he said that GW was a poor manager. GW was an excellent manager.

    • #76
  17. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    What I don’t understand about the immigration issue in terms of national security is why we put people who wish to immigrate here through so much torment and charge them so much money when we each and every day let in millions of tourists and students and temporary workers for a lot less money and for a lot less vetting. In theory, the only reason we are keeping people from becoming U.S. citizens is to make sure they are not criminals, spies, or terrorists. Am I right about that?

    Where does all the money go that the INS takes in from people attempting to immigrate to the United States?

    It just seems like we need a ten-year growth plan, and our immigration policies should fit within it. And the numbers of immigrants we accept each year should be the result of calculations on housing, schools, hospitals, police and fire protection, and so on.

    And if it cost only a few hundred dollars to become a citizen, wouldn’t our problems be mostly solved?

    • #77
  18. Mike LaRoche Inactive
    Mike LaRoche
    @MikeLaRoche

    We need a ten-year immigration moratorium, as Ann Coulter has suggested.

    • #78
  19. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    Mike LaRoche:

    Great Ghost of Gödel:

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    Mike LaRoche: True, but perception is reality. Optics.

    “… LaRoche entered his surprising postmodern phase in the summer of 2016.”

    I thought it was in the 1960s.

    Oh, wait. That was LaRouche. Carry on.

    Crazy old Uncle Lyndon. The family will never live that down.

    I almost asked you on that other thread if you are related to him. So you are?

    • #79
  20. kylez Member
    kylez
    @kylez

    Mike LaRoche:We need a ten-year immigration moratorium, as Ann Coulter has suggested.

    and 25 or so for muslims.

    • #80
  21. Joseph Eagar Member
    Joseph Eagar
    @JosephEagar

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    How does this read to you if you replace the word “Latino” with “Jews?” Sounds deeply ugly to me. Imagine this comment:

    Here We have Krauthammer; an “American.” And We have all the outlets telling Us He is “the most influential Jewishcolumnist.” He insists Here on speaking of “Israel.” So, He must be reprezentin’ Jews and Their “issues.”

    It proves They have no interest in changing hearts and minds on the issues. It will be by force.

    I’ve seen that sentiment expressed about Charles Krauthammer. Surely you have, too.

    That’s not a fair comparison.  Jews are good faith participants in American democracy.   Latinos are not.  The Latino activist community has zero interest in democratic compromise and feels no particular need to stick by its word.  They are second only to upper-middle-class progressive whites in political cynicism.

    When Jimmy Carter says “It proves They have no interest in changing hearts and minds on the issues. It will be by force.” he is not exaggerating.  That really is true.

    (Of course, Hispanics are only pawns in the Great White Class/Ethnic Conflict We Must All Pretend Isn’t Happening.  But I digress).

    • #81
  22. Joseph Eagar Member
    Joseph Eagar
    @JosephEagar

    Claire, I’m not sure you understand how tense ethnic relations are in America at the moment.  I don’t just mean racial tensions, or tensions between whites and everyone else; things are getting pretty bad between white ethnic groups as well.  This isn’t the 80s or 90s.  Things are getting pretty bad.

    The days when American groups trusted each other are over.   I will never again trust people from other social groups the way I did ten years ago, and I don’t think I’m alone.  It’s just too risky; people do not act in good faith in this country the way they used too.

    To quote an article I wrote on the subject:

    It is true that black people fear persecution, that white people fear persecution, that gay people, religious people, conservatives, Hispanics, and Jews fear persecution. It is also true that every single group would persecute another group if given the power to do so.

    We aren’t in Kansas anymore.

    Claire Berlinski, Ed.:

    Most Americans were either born in another country or are only a few generations removed from it. I can’t trace my ancestry back to the Mayflower. My grandparents were born in Germany and Poland. I’m as American as any other American citizen. I would be deeply alarmed to read that you’d looked up my name on Wikipedia, discovered that my grandparents were born in Leipzig and Warsaw, and concluded that there was something suspect about me.

    • #82
  23. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Editor
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    @Claire

    Joseph Eagar: Hispanics are only pawns in the Great White Class/Ethnic Conflict We Must All Pretend Isn’t Happening.  But I digress)

    That doesn’t seem a digression, it seems an important argument. But I’m not sure what you mean by it, even after reading what you wrote carefully (I think). Can you explain?

    I do think you’re right to sense “class conflict.” But in what sense do you mean that Hispanics are pawns of this?

    It’s entirely possible that I’m not fully in touch with what’s happening in the US right now. When I was last in the US, though, I certainly didn’t sense this level of animosity. That you’re reporting this is very frightening.

    • #83
  24. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    The only thing missing from that visual with Trump’s goon moving Jorge Ramos out of the room was a nicely pressed brown shirt with a red arm band emblazoned with a big T on it.

    Ramos is a leading figure on Univision and there was no reason/excuse for Trump not to let him ask his question, especially in light of his comments about hispanics and immigrants. The right way to handle it would have been for Trump to ask him to be patient until he would get to him a bit later. But Trump could not resist creating the drama for TV. The man is just a huge construct of made for media gimmicks and catch phrases.

    • #84
  25. Xennady Member
    Xennady
    @

    Joseph Eagar:The days when American groups trusted each other are over. I will never again trust people from other social groups the way I did ten years ago, and I don’t think I’m alone. It’s just too risky; people do not act in good faith in this country the way they used too.

    Alas, I think this is correct.

    I’d say one reason why is because the people who do not act in good faith never suffer for it, and in fact generally get their way. People have noticed, and trust has waned.

    For example, I cannot imagine any other candidate responding to the calculated rudeness of Ramos by booting him out. Normally I’d expect servile groveling from any Republican faced by someone like this, followed up by obsequious deference.

    Defending the American people and American culture from the endless insults and lies from people like Ramos or other leftists never seems to be an option.

    Advantage: Trump.

    • #85
  26. Xennady Member
    Xennady
    @

    Marion Evans:The only thing missing from that visual with Trump’s goon moving Jorge Ramos out of the room was a nicely pressed brown shirt with a red arm band emblazoned with a big T on it.

    Ramos is a leading figure on Univision and there was no reason/excuse for Trump not to let him ask his question, especially in light of his comments about hispanics and immigrants. The right way to handle it would have been for Trump to ask him to be patient until he would get to him a bit later.

    In other words, Trump should have groveled, and begged the guy rudely speaking out of turn to wait, when he’d already shown that he wouldn’t.

    I do not agree. Trump handled this very well, in my opinion.

    • #86
  27. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    Mike LaRoche:What I see is a pushy foreign national trying to conduct his own personal filibuster during Donald Trump’s press conference. From the clip above, Trump appeared quite gracious and willing to honestly answer the questions asked of him.

    You need to readjust those sun shades. A) Ramos is a naturalized American citizen. B) You think that throwing an accomplished journalist out of the room is a ‘gracious’ thing to do?

    • #87
  28. Marion Evans Inactive
    Marion Evans
    @MarionEvans

    Xennady:

    Marion Evans:The only thing missing from that visual with Trump’s goon moving Jorge Ramos out of the room was a nicely pressed brown shirt with a red arm band emblazoned with a big T on it.

    Ramos is a leading figure on Univision and there was no reason/excuse for Trump not to let him ask his question, especially in light of his comments about hispanics and immigrants. The right way to handle it would have been for Trump to ask him to be patient until he would get to him a bit later.

    In other words, Trump should have groveled, and begged the guy rudely speaking out of turn to wait, when he’d already shown that he wouldn’t.

    I do not agree. Trump handled this very well, in my opinion.

    How is asking someone to be patient “groveling” and “begging”?

    • #88
  29. Xennady Member
    Xennady
    @

    Marion Evans

    How is asking someone to be patient “groveling” and “begging”?

    Ramos proved he wasn’t willing to be patient when he stood up out of turn and refused to sit down when told.

    To his credit, Trump refused to grovel and pretend Ramos wasn’t trying to disrupt his event.

    Again, advantage Trump.

    • #89
  30. Douglas Inactive
    Douglas
    @Douglas

    Marion Evans:The only thing missing from that visual with Trump’s goon moving Jorge Ramos out of the room was a nicely pressed brown shirt with a red arm band emblazoned with a big T on it.

    Ramos is a leading figure on Univision and there was no reason/excuse for Trump not to let him ask his question, especially in light of his comments about hispanics and immigrants. The right way to handle it would have been for Trump to ask him to be patient until he would get to him a bit later. But Trump could not resist creating the drama for TV. The man is just a huge construct of made for media gimmicks and catch phrases.

    That’s ludicrous. I don’t give a damn if he’s a “leading figure”. He was acting like a snotty troll. Trump slapped him down and he deserved every bit of it. He’s snide and dishonest, an activist in disguise as a journalist. He had no right to hijack the press conference, completely walking all over the other reporters to be the center of attention. The right way to handle it was exactly what Trump did: send the petulant child out of the room until it was his turn.

    • #90
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