In Defense of Dragon Slaying

 

Raphael_-_Saint_George_Fighting_the_DragonI have been reading C.K. Chesterton of late. For those who don’t know me, Chesterton and I share an affliction: The terror of a moment without task or input. I find this so terrifying that, upon realizing I have left home without a coat, I would as soon shrug and resolve to the chill. But, upon realizing I have left home without a book, I would turn round, return, and find one. Any book. The thought of being made to sit and wait, a mere five minutes with nothing to read is a form of torture.

Chesterton tells us much of ourselves. I met him first in passing, as a quote on a television show. He seemed quite astute. As I had never before met him, I nodded politely and went on. But that introduction made such an impression — mostly because it expressed something I have been trying to say most of my life — that I decided to meet the man properly. Anyone who could put into the words the single thought of my heart, which has abided there since childhood, must have other things to say that I would like to hear.

Off I went. Via the magic of Kindle and the wonders of copyright free, I had Chesteron’s complete works at my fingertips within moments and at no further cost. Gazing across them, I was daunted. So prolific was he — and on nearly every topic — that I wondered where to begin. I eventually decided on The Defendant, a series of essays.

As I go, I still have not seen the precise tale that gave me introduction, but so much of myself has been given me in what I have already read so far. His various “defenses” seem, with the titles, to be flighty things, topics that hardly need or warrant a defense: rash vows, skeletons, nonsense, planets, china shepherdesses, detective stories, etc. And yet, one quickly sees that these things need to be said and these topics, for all we think we understand them, need to be seen through the eyes of this man who lived a hundred years go. And so, it is with almost regret that I reach the end of an essay: so tasty, that I am tempted to go right to another helping; so satisfying that I could digest it for days and not hunger; so incredibly complex a dish, that it requires the proper time to observe, smell, taste, chew and swallow.

It is a conceit that the Heavens have managed things in such a way as to order the collection in a manner specific to me. Each essay seems to speak of a topic I can see as completely relevant to my life and the world around me. And — while the words were penned a century ago — I can easily see a man of his type making the precisely same observations today.

This brings me back to my first, casual introduction. There are a number of variations and rephrasings, but the original is:

Fairy tales, then, are not responsible for producing in children fear… The [child] has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon.

In my own life I have met many of the dragons that everyone faces. But, sadly, I have met a few I dearly hope few others willingly meet. In truth, many have never met these dragons and fancy themselves the one person at the end of the fairy tale who stands when all others have fallen, gazing over the destruction with the optimism that now, things will improve.

My personal dragons are violent death. Specifically, murder. While many would be hard-pressed to speak of a murder with greater intimacy than provided by the most recent news story, violent death has touched my life no less than three times. And, as I found after 20 years of acquaintance, it has also touched a dear friend’s, and in a far more dangerous manner than most people know, despite the story being well-known.

While in college, the young man who had been the twinkle in my eye for several years was shot to death. On a street corner as he sold newspapers at one of his three jobs he was working to pay his way through college to become an engineer. To this day, his killer has not been caught, nor is there even a suspect. His mother and I recently marked the 30th anniversary of his death.

A few years later, a young man I had briefly dated made violent advances against my best friend. He refused to accept my decision to cut him out of my life and placed himself back into it wherever possible. Today, that would be called stalking. I hid for six months in terror — sleeping on friends’ sofas —  until the day I happened upon a local news story that he had been arrested. It seems I has not been the only object of his destruction. Ultimately, he would go to prison for a short time, be released, and commit worse crimes that culminated in murder, and find himself a permanent home on death row. He sits there to this day and nightly haunts my dreams.

Then, there was a lovely Monday morning in December. When the skies of Tennessee were blue, the air just crisp enough, and all about were the gay trappings of the season. Bounding into work through the back door with a jaunty greeting to a co-worker, I was suddenly stopped with the news that one of our colleagues had been horribly taken only the night before. She was one of the kindest women I had ever met in the very competitive business we had chosen. If one were to ask who deserves such a thing, one would never look to her. And yet.

Occasionally, I run across those who oppose the death penalty on principle. Who are we to take the lives of others? While I see the point, I also know the terror one feels when being stalked, the fear that awaits. I have witnessed the lifelong grief of a loving mother whose only son was taken from her when there should have been nothing but joy in his life. Each day, I scan the newspaper to see if my former stalker is mentioned, attempting yet another appeal. And I have seen the tragedy, visited among friends and colleagues, who woke one cold morning to know that, while they slept, their dear friend fought for her life. And lost.

The legal system offers us “justice.” There is no justice. It attempts to bring “closure.” We can never close these wounds. At its most base, it can be said to deal out vengeance, but vengeance cannot assuage the pain, only drive it deeper. For myself — and I will not dare to speak for anyone else in this tale — I desire no more than to know that these dragons are dead and will never bring fear to anyone again. I understand the plight of the unjustly accused, and I’d never care to see anyone stand and be shouldered with the burden of playing the dragon. That is both unfair to him and to me, and still leaves the real dragon alive in the world. But it is said of a western marshal that he killed many men in his time, but never killed a man who didn’t need killing. Some men need killing.

Chesterton has a way of allowing you to also see the dragon’s point of view. This makes the dragon no less dangerous but, does give you insight. Even in their old age, dragons are dangerous, if for no other reason than they breed more dragons. Seek the dragon, track the dragon, find the bones of his victims, then kill the dragon. For the story is not finished until the dragon is dead.

My dragons live. My story goes on.

This life is fleeting. While we make roads to the future, we must remember we are all someone else’s past. Try not to leave the dragons for the children to slay. They can’t all be killed, as I have come to know to my sorrow. But, sometimes, when a dragon dies, it is like saying to all those with wounds that this will be the way of all dragons. Which, in itself, can be a comforting blanket on the nights when the chill is partially due to the shadow from the sky.

Published in Culture, Domestic Policy
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  1. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Karon,

    What a story. A heartbreaking and frightening story to have lived, and continue living. Even with the dragons, it seems you live your life well.

    In the end, all the dragons will be slain. Until then, Peace, Comfort, and Safety to you.

    • #1
  2. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    I hope there is a knight by your side forever. If not, then a 9mm. Sorry for your losses and terrors.

    • #2
  3. James Of England Inactive
    James Of England
    @JamesOfEngland

    This is a wonderful and moving piece. Thank you.

    • #3
  4. Mike Rapkoch Member
    Mike Rapkoch
    @MikeRapkoch

    I agree, James. How often do we meet people who know violent death first hand. Thank you Karon. This must have been very difficult to write.

    • #4
  5. DocJay Inactive
    DocJay
    @DocJay

    Mike, the numbers of victims of violence is more common than most know. So many people carry substantial traumas.

    • #5
  6. Mike Rapkoch Member
    Mike Rapkoch
    @MikeRapkoch

    DocJay:Mike,the numbersofvictims of violence is more common than most know. So many people carry substantial traumas.

    I’m sure that’s true. I’ve known a couple who’ve been open about it, and probably many more who keep it locked up inside. I have known a number of very violent men from my years as a lawyer. It is unnerving to sit across a table from a killer or rapist. When I was in law school I had the dubious task of representing a guy who’d walked up to a perfect stranger–a lovely woman–and shot her in the face before stealing her car. She survived, thank heavens. My job was to represent the low life before the sentencing review board, a branch of the judiciary that reviews trial court sentencing orders to make sure they comply with the law. In this case there were some errors. I got his sentence reduced from 125 years to 75 years. No parole. I was happy with the result. I won! And he would remain behind bars for the rest of his life.

    • #6
  7. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Karon Adams: For myself, and I will not dare to speak for anyone else in this tale, I desire no more than to know, the dragon is dead. That it will never bring fear to anyone again.

    Yes. If someone has really injured and terrorized you, until he is dead he is…not dead. I get that.

    I’m glad you are here.

    • #7
  8. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    A lot of people carry this within. I have only been the target once and that was quite enough. My dear fiend, I had known for a long time. because of my experience, with my ‘personal’ dragon, I have, over the years, dome some academic research on other cases, necessarily including some of the famous ones.   reading one of the police reports on one of the famous ones, I run across a name. an unusual name. and it suddenly dawns on me. and my dear friend, very timidly admitted it was she (possibly concerned that this would change our relationship. it would but not in the way she feared.) I’ve learned a great deal from her. she is a bit older, her dragon has been around longer.

    Turns out, the fact that my name is not ‘officially attached to any of these is a blessing. in hiding when my dragon was finally caught, lucky enough and wise enough to go into hiding in the first place (though that decision cost me a career and an education). in one ‘can you believe these people’ moment, she told me of the ‘ghoul tours’. She still lives close to her childhood home (I live IN my childhood home. I sympathize). and while she is no longer the target they recognizes, busloads, yes, busloads of people come around to see the house where she lived, which was the focus of the terror which reached out to engulf the community, and eventually, a generation.

    • #8
  9. donald todd Inactive
    donald todd
    @donaldtodd

    Karon, kudos.  You are right, twice.

    Chesterton is a real draw.  I read him after reading CS Lewis and found Chesterton to  be a deeper read, a more difficult understanding, but further up the same road that Lewis was traveling.

    As well, there are people who are such a menace to society that the best thing that can be done is to put them to death.  Not support them for years or decades, but rather allow them to meet their Maker and His judgment, following our judgment of how that individual has lived and harmed others.

    • #9
  10. Wiley Inactive
    Wiley
    @Wiley

    One might ask who are the dragons?  The leading authority on psychopaths, Dr. Robert Hare, says that 1 in 100 is a psychopath (sociopath is an interchangeable term and means the same). Not the mass murdering kind, but what he defines as a sub-criminal highly functioning psychopath. They are CEOs, politicians, doctors, or acquaintances. I did not learn to recognize them until one can through my life doing severe damage. Here is an informative overview of the problem: http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

    For those you like videos, look at this: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/

    • #10
  11. Wiley Inactive
    Wiley
    @Wiley

    Oh, and if you want a weekly dose of psychopathy, watch the Dateline murder mysteries. Most of the killers profiled there are psychopaths.

    • #11
  12. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Karon I am sorry you had to experience the darker side of human behavior. This a beautiful and moving essay.

    A detective I know had a small sign on the corner of his desk that stated: “The only reason some people aren’t dead yet is because it’s against the law to kill them.”

    At a college reunion I was asked by some of my friends about my experiences as a police officer. At the end of the conversation I said that some individuals will not stop what they’re doing until you put the boots to them. They looked at me as if I was some sort of Neanderthal. I suppose I was.

    • #12
  13. donald todd Inactive
    donald todd
    @donaldtodd

    Wiley:One might ask who are the dragons? The leading authority on psychopaths, Dr. Robert Hare, says that 1 in 100 is a psychopath (sociopath is an interchangeable term and means the same). Not the mass murdering kind, but what he defines as a sub-criminal higly functioning psychopath. They are CEOs, politicians, doctors, or acquantances. I did not learn to recognize them until one can through my life doing severe damage.

    As an aside, I recognized “highly functioning sociopath” as it is a description that the English television character Sherlock uses to describe himself.  It came about because he is accused of not caring for others whose lives are in danger from the criminal element of that television series.  He is not the cause of their being at risk but seems unable to empathize with their plight, lacking some emotional component for human beings as opposed to other considerations.

    • #13
  14. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    Psycho/socio paths are what they are. I would never be one to say they all need be rounded up and disposed. a man doesn’t need killing until he has proven, by virtue of his own actions, that he is an actual danger. not someone with dark thoughts, not someone with a disturbed mind. every time there is an ‘event’ like the Dylan roof incident, the various talking heads say ‘How can we prevent this? Who should have known? who’s at fault?’

    the truth is, no one besides the person holding the weapon. and the only way to stop them is to stop them once they cross the line to violence. we cannot and must not make these judgments based on who knew and what they knew and what they wrote or said…. How many of us could withstand such a judgments? I couldn’t.

    Sociopaths are, as a group, some of the best businessmen in the world and the most levelheaded politicians. they are the men, (and women), who can dispassionately see the obvious answer that the only way to end a world war is with a couple of atomic bombs. Men who can sit down and see the problem for, in the end, the simple math equation it is. who can live with the responsibility.

    • #14
  15. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    the Dateline murder mysteries, among many, many others, were a part of my research phase. that sort of thing. there are some which re well done, thoughtful and can help you understand. then there are others, like a particular septuagenarian in denial who can’t seem to manage to stay dressed when a camera is around. and worse, seems compelled to show the world.

    Stephen King once said that there is a key to a good horror novel, what he referred to and so named his academic book on the subject, the Danse Macabre.  and that key is to a door. the longer you can keep the monster behind the door, the better the story. Once you understand that thought, you totally ‘get’ it.

    The human mind balks at the grotesque, the frightening, the dangerous. but, it also sees in a dispassionate way of it’s own. so long as you have a problem but don’t know what it is, part of your life is fear. But, once you see the danger, your mind immediately shows you the possible outcomes. in doing so, the fear falls behind the possible solutions. and, being an optimistic species, we follow the latter thought.

    • #15
  16. Ryan M Inactive
    Ryan M
    @RyanM

    A post about Chesterton on the Main Feed?!?

    (ok, I’m reading the substance of your post right now.  Just had to comment on GK.)

    • #16
  17. Ryan M Inactive
    Ryan M
    @RyanM

    Karon, your post makes me think about the difference between retributive Justice and rehabilitative justice.  That is not to say that I favor a justice system based on vengeance, as I think that misrepresents the former.  Today’s system is almost always based on rehabilitation – I’ve heard dozens of times from clients who object to the offer from a prosecutor or the mandatory minimum or my prediction of a judge’s sentence: “how is this going to help me?”  That person is rarely actually seeking help, but is appealing to our sense that the criminal justice system has more to do with fixing the criminal than it has to do with something that we sometimes refer to as atonement.

    • #17
  18. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    periodically scanning the web for my dragon’s name, I recently ran across a mention. a group of college art students decided to create a project that might bring comfort  to the men on death row.

    If you could do one thing, what would you do?

    such mundane activities which we take for granted. we don’t stop to think that these men, living n a box, can never indulge in them as we do daily.

    It was  fascinating project.

    Except for one thing.

    my first thought was to ask what I would do given one day of free indulgence.

    My second thought was that Robert, who would never have given me a second glance but who I still miss, can’t even dream of these indulgences. for the men who expressed the wishes, took all his wishes away. and with them, the wishes of his mother. who, upon the recent anniversary, sent me a note. that day was possibly the hardest in a very long time. there are no other children, you see. and the day was filled with tears, not just for the loss of her son, but for the grandchildren who will never be.

    I suddenly wanted to step into those oh, so compassionate art projects, and eat the breakfast and dig up the gardens. because these are the people who took away fried eggs and tomato plants, and grandchildren. If they never eat an egg cooked just right again, it will not harm my heart.

    • #18
  19. Wiley Inactive
    Wiley
    @Wiley

    Karon Adams: Sociopaths are, as a group, some of the best businessmen in the world and the most levelheaded politicians

    I think that is true… to a point. Dr Hare’s book on psychopaths is called “Without Conscience.” I would add “and without emotion.”  His other book “Snakes in Suits” deals with psychopaths in business. They use “lying, manipulation, deceit, egocentricity, callousness, and other potentially destructive traits.” If I may use a current example, Hillary is a psychopath and she has been quite successful, and I do not use the term as a slander, but as a obvious diagnosis based on my research and readings. Here is a preview pdf of Snakes in Suits: http://www.mtpinnacle.com/pdfs/psycophaths-at-work.pdf

    Here is a related study on the damage psychopaths can do in the business world proposing that psychopaths caused the financial crisis: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10551-011-0810-4

    • #19
  20. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Karon Adams: I suddenly wanted to step into those oh, so compassionate art projects, and eat the breakfast and dig up the gardens. because these are the people who took away fried eggs and tomato plants, and grandchildren. If they never eat an egg cooked just right again, it will not harm my heart.

    Excellent point.

    • #20
  21. The Great Adventure! Inactive
    The Great Adventure!
    @TheGreatAdventure

    I would suggest that there is an act of violence that is often overlooked as such in our culture – suicide.  We tend to look at it as terrible tragedy, but rarely view it as what it is – violence towards oneself.

    While I haven’t had the intimate experiences with violence that Karon has, my son certainly has. Sophomore year of HS, he’s playing on the lacrosse team.  The team was new to his HS, only playing its second season.  They travel to a neighboring suburb and win their first ever road game.  A teammate and friend – Matt – scores 4 goals in the victory, including the game winner.  The kids all celebrate, but since it was a Tuesday night, they all head home.  Matt arrives home to find his father hanging from the 2nd floor railing in the entryway.  How do a bunch of 15-18 year old kids deal with that?  For that matter, what can parents do to help them through something like this?

    The following year/season.  Another victory and all of us awake the next morning to learn that another teammate and friend’s – Rob – father had been brutally beaten to death on the front porch of his home.  Rob’s parents had divorced several years ago and Rob lived with his Mom, but both parents still lived in town.  The culprit was the husband of a wife who was having an affair with his Dad.

    To be continued in next post.

    • #21
  22. The Great Adventure! Inactive
    The Great Adventure!
    @TheGreatAdventure

    Continued from #21

    Throughout high school, my son served at our church as a small group leader for middle school students.  He had a group of 6 kids in his group that adored him and whom he adored.  Very tight knit group.  As these kids entered HS, my son headed off to college.  Midway through his Freshman year, we receive word that one of the young men had committed suicide.

    Finally, my son went to college at Seattle Pacific University.  Since it has become a regular occurrence, I don’t expect most to remember the shooting there last year, but a non-student arrived at the campus and killed one, wounded two others before being tackled by another student.  My son did not know the young man who was killed, but does know one of the two injured.

    Quite a lot to have gone through for a young man in his early 20s.  Each time we’ve struggled to determine how we can help him.  I would suggest that the suicides were much bigger dragons in his psyche than were the murders, although that might be because they hit closer to home (Matt was/is a good friend, Rob more of a peripheral friend).  I think one of the challenges is that after a suicide the dragon is gone – there is nowhere left to focus the grief and emotion.

    • #22
  23. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    The Great Adventure!: I would suggest that the suicides were much bigger dragons in his psyche than were the murders,

    A dragon is always more fierce and personal when you know them. Knowing someone who committed suicide is knowing someone who you loved, who as you suggest was violent to themselves. They were a dragon to themselves. It is frightening and unsettling to face that.

    For those left behind by suicide, another dragon can be ourselves slashing at ourselves with the “if only” scenarios. It is difficult to tame that kind of dragon.

    • #23
  24. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    DocJay:I hope there is a knight by your side forever. If not, then a 9mm. Sorry for your losses and terrors.

    Karon, that is a moving and sobering essay.  Thank you.

    I concur with Doc: Turn to GK Chesterton for succor, but Samuel Colt for security.  Too, on dealing with psychopaths and stalkers, I would commend to the group De Becker’s The Gift of Fear.  While it’s a book I think everyone should read, were I king for a day I would make it mandatory for women.

    • #24
  25. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    Ryan, I don’t know where or if you are involved in the Justice system.

    your comment intrigued me. retributive or rehabilitative justice.

    Is it possible that I am the only person in the world who cares not for neither? who can never find either in the justice system? those traits, rights and abilities lie with G-d.

    all the justice system can ever offer, though it hasn’t yet, is one night. One night, before I die, when I can go to bed and know that my dragon will never pose a threat to me or anyone else, again.

    Life without parole. that is my sentence, not his. Yes, he was ‘sentenced’ to death but, after 25 years, I no longer hold any illusion his execution will ever be carried out. as an aside, Years ago, the innocence project took his case. he has claimed, as most criminals do, that he was forced to confess, you see. innocence project compared his DNA to the DNA left at each of his victims, what survived via the rape kits. not only was he guilty of the murder, he was guilty of every sexual assault for which he had been accused and the police found a few more in the bargain.

    The innocence project rightly washed their hands of him.

    amnesty, international, however, still sues for his release. not his commutation, his release. unconditional and with financial aspects, as well. it seems, he has been terribly treated.

    meanwhile, I still serve life.

    • #25
  26. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    Mike Rapkoch:I agree, James. How often do we meet people who know violent death first hand. Thank you Karon. This must have been very difficult to write.

    In all honesty, it was probably one of the easiest things I have ever done. Possibly because it is one of the few times I have ever tried to order my thoughts and put it all together in a way that seemed to settle it in my mind. I thank whichever editor found the correct quote. I find, however, that reading Chesterton opens many doors in my own mind and allows me to examine what lies within in a more sane manner.

    • #26
  27. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    Boss Mongo:

    DocJay:I hope there is a knight by your side forever. If not, then a 9mm. Sorry for your losses and terrors.

    Karon, that is a moving and sobering essay. Thank you.

    I concur with Doc: Turn to GK Chesterton for succor, but Samuel Colt for security. Too, on dealing with psychopaths and stalkers, I would commend to the group De Becker’s The Gift of Fear. While it’s a book I think everyone should read, were I king for a day I would make it mandatory for women.

    I will try to take a look.

    I would note, however, that, when one has these experiences and is in the process of raising children, especially daughters, one walks a far more delicate line of protection/education of the children vs allowing them to be free enough to learn independence. often I found myself pounding down my own fear, reminding myself that they had no idea of the threat, and hopefully never would.

    • #27
  28. Boss Mongo Member
    Boss Mongo
    @BossMongo

    Karon Adams:

    I would note, however, that, when one has these experiences and is in the process of raising children, especially daughters, one walks a far more delicate line of protection/education of the children vs allowing them to be free enough to learn independence. often I found myself pounding down my own fear, reminding myself that they had no idea of the threat, and hopefully never would.

    Karon, I’ve got three girls, and know exactly that feeling (although my knowledge and assessment of the threats out there come from a very different experiential base than yours).  Sending one off to college nearly killed me.  Next one is in the chute to depart in a couple weeks.  The one that’ll remain is pushing hard–probably rightly–for a midnight curfew on weekends.

    Now I know why men go gray, and it has little to do with age.

    • #28
  29. Kate Braestrup Member
    Kate Braestrup
    @GrannyDude

    Karon Adams: I will try to take a look.   I would note, however, that, when one has these experiences and is in the process of raising children, especially daughters, one walks a far more delicate line of protection/education of the children vs allowing them to be free enough to learn independence. often I found myself pounding down my own fear, reminding myself that they had no idea of the threat, and hopefully never would.

    I agree about De Becker’s book—I found it very helpful, in good, practical and therefore anxiety-reducing ways!

    If you have been exposed up-close -and-personal, the fact that a terrible event is statistically rare doesn’t really help a whole lot. You and I could probably rationally agree that taking a ride on a snowmobile is a reasonably safe thing to do, but because I respond to snowmobile accidents, a snowmobile is a death machine. Same with canoes. (And hiking is super-hazardous too, and don’t even get me started about swimming…) As you say, the hard part is then allowing my children to have normal outdoor activities, of the kind that are actually healthy as well as fun.

    Exposure to personal violence is even worse, I think—at least, the police officers I know who see violent crimes can never integrate assaults or murders as statistically-rare phenomena, because in their experience, they aren’t rare at all. They happen all the time.

    Trauma isn’t something that happens in your mind, it’s what happens in and to your brain and body, so you can’t just think your way out of it. Your body has to heal, and that can take a very long time. As some folks here have heard before, I was sexually abused when I was a kid—and this made me extremely anxious about being outdoors for years, well into adulthood.  Eventually, after an apparently divinely-arranged course of exposure therapy (as the chaplain to game wardens, I go outdoors all the time,  but I am surrounded by armed men who love me!)  And the day came when I was fine.  Eventually, given time and love, you’ll turn your experience into wisdom. From the evidence of the OP, this is already happening, so—well done!

    Notes:  Don’t let people shame you into taking bigger risks with your children than you feel comfortable doing—if you have to be a little neurotic, so be it.  And when your children are old enough, you can explain that yes, you are a little more safety-conscious than other parents might be. You need their help to feel safe about letting them out of your sight, so they have to come home on time, or call or whatever. That way, you won’t feel quite so much as though you’re infecting them with your fear… but you’ll still have a sense of necessary control.

    Probably a whole lot more advice than you need!

    • #29
  30. Karon Adams Inactive
    Karon Adams
    @KaronAdams

    both of mine remained at home for the first two years after high school, attending a local junior college. both were given reasonably late curfews, and eventually, removed official curfews. at some point, the conversation moved from  how late I thought they should be allowed to stay out, and how late I was willing to have them disturb MY rest. Eventually, it was made clear that waking me at 3AM would not be tolerated. but coming in without telling was not tolerated either. the compromise was, if you are going to be late, tell us early enough in the evening. there is no reason not to call home. I must say that it was a bit liberating for me, not her, when my oldest went to college in another city.

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