The Trump Debate Corner

 

Donald-Trump-angry (1)A lot happened at the main debate tonight, but let’s focus on Trump on this thread, because, face it: He’s probably the reason most people tuned in.

I didn’t watch the debate; I listened to it from my computer, on Ricochet. From just of one of his answers alone, Trump came out looking as bad as I’d imagined him to be. I’ll dissect it and some more to show you why.

First, his answer to Megan Kelly when she asked him about his rude comments about women just made him sound angry. By the end, he seemed to be attacking Megan just for asking the question.

KELLY: Mr. Trump, one of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don’t use a politician’s filter. However, that is not without its downsides, in particular, when it comes to women. You’ve called women you don’t like “fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.” Your Twitter account…

TRUMP: Only Rosie O’Donnell.

KELLY: No, it wasn’t. Your Twitter account … For the record, it was well beyond Rosie O’Donnell.

TRUMP: Yes, I’m sure it was.

KELLY: Your Twitter account has several disparaging comments about women’s looks. You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. Does that sound to you like the temperament of a man we should elect as president, and how will you answer the charge from Hillary Clinton, who was likely to be the Democratic nominee, that you are part of the war on women?

TRUMP: I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I’ve been challenged by so many people, and I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time either. This country is in big trouble. We don’t win anymore. We lose to China. We lose to Mexico both in trade and at the border. We lose to everybody. And frankly, what I say, and oftentimes it’s fun, it’s kidding. We have a good time. What I say is what I say. And honestly Megyn, if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me. But I wouldn’t do that. What I say is what I say. And honestly. Megyn, if you don’t like it, I’m sorry. I’ve been very nice to you, although I could probably maybe not be, based on the way you have treated me. But I wouldn’t do that.

He seemed so ungentlemanly.

Second was his reply when asked about his contributions to the Clintons and Democrats. I think he actually spoke the truth for half of his answer:

BAIER: Mr. Trump, it’s not just your past support for single-payer health care. You’ve also supported a host of other liberal policies. Use — you’ve also donated to several Democratic candidates, Hillary Clinton included, Nancy Pelosi. You explained away those donations saying you did that to get business-related favors. And you said recently, quote, “When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do.”

TRUMP: You’d better believe it.

BAIER: So what specifically did they do?

TRUMP: If I ask them, if I need them, you know, most of the people on this stage I’ve given to, just so you understand, a lot of money.

He made it sound as if he paid then off, like all big businessmen do so, to get in with them, and that is just how business is done. When asked what favors they did for him he deflected.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you get from Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi?

TRUMP: Well, I’ll tell you what, with Hillary Clinton, I said be at my wedding and she came to my wedding. You know why? She didn’t have a choice because I gave. I gave to a foundation that, frankly, that foundation is supposed to do good. I didn’t know her money would be used on private jets going all over the world. It was.

It was so insincere. All I could think was that he had to deflect, but that the truth is either that he really liked them, politically, or that what they did for him was clearly crooked. Probably both. The man loves to brag about doing business, but he comes of like a shark. Why not say, “I pay bribes to all these guys because if I don’t they won’t let me make an honest buck?” No, he always comes off like he is proud to be part of that crooked world.

The final quote that sunk it for me was when he was asked about his business going bankrupt.

WALLACE: Mr. Trump, you talk a lot about how you are the person on this stage to grow the economy. I want to ask you about your business record. Trump corporations — Trump corporations, casinos and hotels, have declared bankruptcy four times over the last quarter-century. In 2011, you told Forbes Magazine this: “I’ve used the laws of the country to my advantage.” But at the same time, financial experts involved in those bankruptcies say that lenders to your companies lost billions of dollars. Question sir, with that record, why should we trust you to run the nation’s business?

TRUMP: Because I have used the laws of this country just like the greatest people that you read about every day in business have used the laws of this country, the chapter laws, to do a great job for my company, for myself, for my employees, for my family, et cetera. I have never gone bankrupt, by the way. I have never. But out of hundreds of deals …

WALLACE: No, but the concept sir …

TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.

WALLACE: … that’s your line, but your companies have gone bankrupt.

TRUMP: Excuse me, what am I saying? Out of hundreds of deals that I’ve done, hundreds, on four occasions I’ve taken advantage of the laws of this country, like other people. I’m not going to name their names because I’m not going to embarrass, but virtually every person that you read about on the front page of the business sections, they’ve used the law. The difference is, when somebody else uses those laws, nobody writes about it. When I use it, they say, “Trump, Trump, Trump.” The fact is, I built a net worth of more than $10 billion. I have a great, great company. I employ thousands of people. And I’m very proud of the job I did. Again Chris, hundreds and hundreds of deals. Four times, I’ve taken advantage of the laws. And frankly, so has everybody else in my position.

WALLACE: Well sir, let’s just talk about the latest example, which is Trump Entertainment Resorts, which went bankrupt in 2009. In that case alone, lenders to your company lost over $1 billion and more than 1,100 people were laid off.

TRUMP: Well, I…

WALLACE: Is that the way that you’d run the country?

TRUMP: Let me just tell you about the lenders. First of all, these lenders aren’t babies. These are total killers. These are not the nice, sweet little people that you think, OK? You know, I mean you’re living in a world of the make-believe, Chris, you want to know the truth. And I had the good sense to leave Atlantic City, which by the way, Caesars just went bankrupt. Every company, Chris can tell you, every company virtually in Atlantic City went bankrupt.Every company. And let me just tell you. I had the good sense, and I’ve gotten a lot of credit in the financial pages, seven years ago I left Atlantic City before it totally cratered, and I made a lot of money in Atlantic City, and I’m very proud of it. I want to tell you that. Very, very proud of it.

“I took advantage of the law.” I nearly snapped my keyboard in two when I heard him say that. What was he saying? I know how the game is played and I play it well. Well, my dear Mr. Trump. The game and its crooked rules are the problem! You did well for yourself (something he never fails to mention) by taking advantage of the law. Good for you, you have all the lawyers and shady accountants that let you get away with it, but what about the rest of us?

The man has provided enough attack ad material in this one debate to last until November 2016.

One more thing. Trump is really down on America. He never says how things will be better. The last thing I recall him saying is that we can’t negotiate, win wars, or keep our allies. We can’t do these things because of the Democrats. But that never comes off from his speeches. I think as people go back and look through his performance here, he will plummet in the polls and I hope to irrelevancy.

Does anyone here think he did well? Is anyone still pleased with him?

There are 100 comments.

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  1. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I think he came across very poorly. As if he was making up for a lack of substance with forcefulness.

    • #1
  2. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Valiuth: Second, was when he was asked about his contributions to the Clinton’s and Democrats. He, I think, actually spoke the truth for half of his answer, which was that he paid them off like all big businessmen do so that he would be in with them, and that is just how business is done. When asked what favors they did for him he deflected. It was so insincere. All I could think was that he had to deflect, but that the truth is either he really liked them politically or what they did for him was clearly crooked. Probably both. The man loves to brag about doing business, but he comes of like such a shark. Why not say I pay bribes to all these guys because if I don’t they won’t let me make an honest buck. No, he always comes off like he is proud that he is part of that crooked world.

    for this reason alone, I will black him out.

    even if he spends his own money to get to the white house, or the general, he has already said he will be bought.

    • #2
  3. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    I think tonight’s debate began the process of marginalizing Trump. Now the question is where will his supporters go?

    • #3
  4. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    plus, he ‘invested’ very, very heavily in Atlantic City. Then jumped ship. I know it was business, but our White House isn’t business.

    • #4
  5. Eustace C. Scrubb Member
    Eustace C. Scrubb
    @EustaceCScrubb

    The man loves to brag about doing business, but he comes of like such a shark.”

    Hey, I like sharks!

    • #5
  6. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    He basically was bragging about being a crony capitalist.

    That’s the one thing Occupy and the Tea Party agree on!

    • #6
  7. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    Well, if I were Trump I’d be angling to put a billion dollar wager on Fiorina.

    • #7
  8. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    When he praised Canada and Scotland’s health care.

    • #8
  9. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    • #9
  10. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Eustace C. Scrubb:

    Hey, I like sharks!

    Not the cute, man eating kind, but rather the slimy steal your grandma’s pension kind.

    • #10
  11. Salvatore Padula Inactive
    Salvatore Padula
    @SalvatorePadula

    WE NEED BRAIN!

    • #11
  12. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    Valiuth:The final quote that sunk it for me was when he was asked about his business going bankrupt. This quote I do remember, “I took advantage of the law.” I nearly snapped my keyboard in two when I heard him say that. What was he saying? I know how the game is played and I play it well. Well my dear Mr. Trump. The game and its crooked rules are the problem! You did well for yourself (something he never fails to mention) by taking advantage of the law. Good for you you have all the lawyers and shady accountants that let you get away with it, but what about the rest of us?

    I’m not a Trump fan (is anyone?) but I happened to catch this question / response in the car.  I thought it was a good as he could have done on the topic.  I used to work tangentially in the bankruptcy space and, on balance, I agree with him.  Bankruptcy law is there for a reason and he effectively bought the option to default by paying a higher interest rate on his loans.  He could lower his interest rate on all his borrowing by cross collateralizing, but that would risk everything if one deal went south.  The banks lost a billion in one deal, but they made many billions on his other deals and the banks will happily line up to lend him money next time.  If his actions were unconscionable, they wouldn’t.

    • #12
  13. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Pseudodionysius:Well, if I were Trump I’d be angling to put a billion dollar wager on Fiorina.

    Really? I get people really seemed to like her, and I admit I didn’t see all of the first debate, but what I did see din’t leave me much impressed. It was vastly inferior to this one. And while Fiorina stood out I’m not sure that was much of an accomplishment considering her competition. Frankly I don’t think she was as good as Ben Carson was or Marco Rubio, or even Huckabee.

    • #13
  14. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Valiuth: Really? I get people really seemed to like her, and I admit I didn’t see all of the first debate, but what I did see din’t leave me much impressed. It was vastly inferior to this one. And while Fiorina stood out I’m not sure that was much of an accomplishment considering her competition. Frankly I don’t think she was as good as Ben Carson was or Marco Rubio, or even Huckabee.

    I’ve been pretty vocal about my emphasis on experience this time around; it’s the main reason I can’t support Cruz or Rubio.

    Fiorina has come the closest to convincing me to change my mind on that.

    • #14
  15. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    A-Squared:

    I’m not a Trump fan (is anyone?) but I happened to catch this question / response in the car. I thought it was a good as he could have done on the topic. I used to work tangentially in the bankruptcy space and, on balance, I agree with him. Bankruptcy law is there for a reason and he effectively bought the option to default by paying a higher interest rate on his loans. He could lower his interest rate on all his borrowing by cross collateralizing, but that would risk everything if one deal went south. The banks lost a billion in one deal, but they made many billions on his other deals and the banks will happily line up to lend him money next time. If his actions were unconscionable, they wouldn’t.

    Well your explanation is quite nice, and I don’t have an issue with bankruptcy. The way he talks about things though is so slimy. He has such a used car sales man vibe to him. If Mitt Romney was the guy who fired you Donald is the guy who sells variable interest loans with no money down.

    • #15
  16. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Umbra Fractus:

    Valiuth: Really? I get people really seemed to like her, and I admit I didn’t see all of the first debate, but what I did see din’t leave me much impressed. It was vastly inferior to this one. And while Fiorina stood out I’m not sure that was much of an accomplishment considering her competition. Frankly I don’t think she was as good as Ben Carson was or Marco Rubio, or even Huckabee.

    I’ve been pretty vocal about my emphasis on experience this time around; it’s the main reason I can’t support Cruz or Rubio.

    Fiorina has come the closest to convincing me to change my mind on that.

    Experience is good, but Biden has experience, and so does John Kerry. I think sound ideology is really the best hallmark. The president will be forced to deal with situations that defy all practical experience. So I don’t want a guy that knows how to work the bureaucracy the best I want the guy that knows which way North is when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    • #16
  17. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Valiuth: when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    when?

    did you mean “since we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.”?

    • #17
  18. A-Squared Inactive
    A-Squared
    @ASquared

    Valiuth:

    Well your explanation is quite nice, and I don’t have an issue with bankruptcy. The way he talks about things though is so slimy. He has such a used car sales man vibe to him. If Mitt Romney was the guy who fired you Donald is the guy who sells variable interest loans with no money down.

    You effectively said you have an issue with him arranging his business around the bankruptcy law.

    Valiuth: You did well for yourself (something he never fails to mention) by taking advantage of the law.

    I don’t have a problem with that.  As he said, the banks are sharks and they knew the risks going in and priced them accordingly.

    Yes, the way he talks about things is slimy.  We knew that two decades ago.

    • #18
  19. EThompson Inactive
    EThompson
    @EThompson

    Pseudodionysius:

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    Pseud, I’m afraid our gig is up. It was fun while it lasted. :)

    In all seriousness, Trump did what needed to be done tonight- he forced everybody else to bring their A games. It was probably one of the most interesting, substantive debates I’ve ever watched.

    Democrats have got to be sweating bullets.

    • #19
  20. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    Jules PA:

    Valiuth: when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    when?

    did you mean “since we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.”?

    Oh my friend I don’t think we have even left the harbor yet. Things will get so much worse before the next president gets in to office.

    • #20
  21. Leigh Inactive
    Leigh
    @Leigh

    Valiuth: Experience is good, but Biden has experience, and so does John Kerry. I think sound ideology is really the best hallmark. The president will be forced to deal with situations that defy all practical experience. So I don’t want a guy that knows how to work the bureaucracy the best I want the guy that knows which way North is when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    Yes, but someone who has held to sound ideology in a tough elected office is more likely to do so in Washington.  Maybe Rubio, though his major foray into actual policymaking in Washington doesn’t bode well.

    • #21
  22. The King Prawn Inactive
    The King Prawn
    @TheKingPrawn

    His is the time share infomercial candidacy.

    • #22
  23. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    A-Squared:

    Valiuth:

    Well your explanation is quite nice, and I don’t have an issue with bankruptcy. The way he talks about things though is so slimy. He has such a used car sales man vibe to him. If Mitt Romney was the guy who fired you Donald is the guy who sells variable interest loans with no money down.

    You effectively said you have an issue with him arranging his business around the bankruptcy law.

    That’s the thing though isn’t it. We have Bankruptcy laws and I get the feeling there are probably a certain class of business men who go in and try to use that law to make money for themselves. The goal isn’t to succeed and if that fails to avail yourself of the law. The goal is to use the provisions of the law to risk nothing and gain everything. That is the perception people have and that I admit to having too. Donald Trump is part of the whole too big to fail movement.

    • #23
  24. Valiuth Inactive
    Valiuth
    @Valiuth

    EThompson:

    Pseudodionysius:

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    Pseud, I’m afraid our gig is up. It was fun while it lasted. :)

    In all seriousness, Trump did what needed to be done tonight- he forced everybody else to bring their A games. It was probably one of the most interesting, substantive debates I’ve ever watched.

    Democrats have got to be sweating bullets.

    Well I saw DWS (as apparently we call her) on with Megan Kelly after the debate. She just came out and called all the candidates misogynists. I don’t think the Democrats are sweating, lizards can’t sweat after all.

    • #24
  25. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Valiuth: Experience is good, but Biden has experience, and so does John Kerry. I think sound ideology is really the best hallmark. The president will be forced to deal with situations that defy all practical experience. So I don’t want a guy that knows how to work the bureaucracy the best I want the guy that knows which way North is when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    True. I’d certainly support Cruz, Rubio, or Fiorina against Biden if it comes down to it.

    But we’re not there yet. I support Walker, but Perry and Jindal also have both a good ideological compass and executive experience.

    • #25
  26. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    EThompson:

    Pseudodionysius:

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    Pseud, I’m afraid our gig is up. It was fun while it lasted. :)

    In all seriousness, Trump did what needed to be done tonight- he forced everybody else to bring their A games. It was probably one of the most interesting, substantive debates I’ve ever watched.

    Democrats have got to be sweating bullets.

    I agree completely. He has changed this race substantively.

    • #26
  27. Umbra Fractus Inactive
    Umbra Fractus
    @UmbraFractus

    Valiuth: Well I saw DWS (as apparently we call her) on with Megan Kelly after the debate. She just came out and called all the candidates misogynists. I don’t think the Democrats are sweating, lizards can’t sweat after all.

    That’s what all progressives say when they have no substantive answers.

    • #27
  28. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    EThompson:

    Pseudodionysius:

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    Pseud, I’m afraid our gig is up. It was fun while it lasted. :)

    In all seriousness, Trump did what needed to be done tonight- he forced everybody else to bring their A games. It was probably one of the most interesting, substantive debates I’ve ever watched.

    Democrats have got to be sweating bullets.

    Liz, I really liked Rubio. You have always said he is amazing. Wow. I agree.

    • #28
  29. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    EThompson:

    Pseudodionysius:

    MarciN:I think he came across as too old, frankly. His way of talking to people just doesn’t fly anymore.

    Its a rat pack candidacy.

    Pseud, I’m afraid our gig is up. It was fun while it lasted. :)

    In all seriousness, Trump did what needed to be done tonight- he forced everybody else to bring their A games. It was probably one of the most interesting, substantive debates I’ve ever watched.

    Democrats have got to be sweating bullets.

    What Trump accomplished was to triple the number of eyeballs on the debate tonight. And you’re right, most of the candidates brought their A game.

    • #29
  30. Jules PA Inactive
    Jules PA
    @JulesPA

    Valiuth:

    Jules PA:

    Valiuth: when we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.

    when?

    did you mean “since we find our nation set a drift on a dark and stormy sea.”?

    Oh my friend I don’t think we have even left the harbor yet. Things will get so much worse before the next president gets in to office.

    just deeper, deeper into the darkness of the night. I agree.

    • #30
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