Giving the Pontiff His Due

 

On the same flight back to Rome from Latin America on which he admitted he knows next to nothing about economics, Pope Francis also acknowledged criticism he has received here in the United States, and promised to read up on it. From an article in Crux:

Screen Shot 2015-07-15 at 2.30.16 PM

If he means this — if he was genuinely unaware of the critique to which his views on markets and global warming have been subjected in places such as this very website, and if he takes the arguments seriously — then the pope will have displayed an example of intellectual humility we can all admire.

Might Ricochet actually receive a reading in the Vatican? We do believe in miracles, do we not?

Published in Economics, Religion & Philosophy
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  1. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Paging Fr. Sirico! Fr. Sirico to the Vatican — STAT!

    Ricochet is a fine daily read on a wide range of topics. Pope Francis needs a primer on economics from a Catholic conscience. There’s no one better suited than Fr. Sirico of the Acton Institute. He would also make an excellent podcast guest. Ahem.

    • #1
  2. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @OldBathos

    The pope’s default rhetorical content with respect to economics and politics is a window on why Latin America consistently fails to achieve widespread prosperity and stability.  Not to get all lefty-academic-deconstructionist here but its hard to get something right if you are trapped in terms/language that invariably lead you to bad intellectual endpoints.

    We don’t need to recast Jesus as a spiritual entrepreneur with a high utility for conferring benefits on the lowest socio-economic quintile or otherwise do some dumb right side counter-caricature of Liberation theology.

    We do need to make people understand that the best way to maximize human dignity is with freedom.  The best way to solve problems is by maximizing the resources available to and favorable cognitive climate for human creativity.

    The most annoying part of the encyclical for me was the attempt to counter Malthusian anti-population fascists with an ethos of conservation.  Pope Francis bought their bogus zero sum premises and then served very weak tea in response.  Thirty years ago Julian Simon (The Ultimate Resource) defeated those same guys with a bet about how the economic future really plays out.  The fullness of human nature, free, productive, affirming ought to be the ideal instead of going for the obedient, low-consumption, change-resisting, cheerful peasant motif.

    • #2
  3. Look Away Inactive
    Look Away
    @LookAway

    The only positive thing I can say about this Pope is that my wonderful Mrs. Look Away has quit trying to convert me to the  Catholic Church.

    • #3
  4. Ball Diamond Ball Member
    Ball Diamond Ball
    @BallDiamondBall

    Look Away:The only positive thing I can say about this Pope is that my wonderful Mrs. Look Away has quit trying to convert me to the Catholic Church.

    I’ll drink to that.

    • #4
  5. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    I said this on Peter’s last post on the very same subject.  I might as well repeat it here:

    The Pope may very well understand that capitalism is the best means of ending poverty, but he may still not find it acceptable. The process is as important as the outcome. If the devil were to give you a million dollars, with strings attached of course, then it would be immoral to take it. If the devil were to give the earth a gazillion dollars and end poverty while demanding his satanic requests, it would still be immoral to accept it. The means do not justify a utility. If the Pope looks at western capitalism (and i’m assuming he would conflate European Keynesian economics with American free market) and sees a vast loss of faith, same sex marriage, abortion, vast disparities in wealth, broken families, divorce, pornography, and a whole host of social ills, then he might conclude that western economics has made a deal with the devil, that is if he sees the economics as integral to our culture. And a Catholic would certainly see everything as integral. That’s how I’m reading the Holy Father.

    I’m sure Pope Francis is doesn’t understand economics.  It may be that he doesn’t really care.  The means may not in his view justify the ends.

    • #5
  6. Tuck Inactive
    Tuck
    @Tuck

    Yikes.  So I guess Marxism is such the default now in the Catholic Church that he’s never encountered a non-Marxist point of view?

    Scary…

    • #6
  7. Autistic License Coolidge
    Autistic License
    @AutisticLicense

    He’s bought into Peronism, and it makes me sad. Where’s the encyclical about the persecution of Christians, the normalization of sexual sadism, the empty, joyless reality show culture, the worship of celebrities? Anyone can chirp about global warming. A Catholic prelate is supposed to get past the obvious and the popular.

    • #7
  8. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    My argument to the Holy Father would be this:

    God’s gift of free will is so important that He endures terrible horrors and deprivations in our world rather than force all to be good. If God will not abridge free will to end starvation and injustice, how can we do otherwise?

    Willful good is more beautiful than automatic good. So that human beings may be more than mere animals, we must be free.

    The Holy Spirit’s gift of charity can only be shared voluntarily. If I am forced to help my neighbor, then my soul does not benefit from that act. Redistributive programs offer no beauty or love, only a shallow and impersonal materialism which deprives souls of charitable opportunity.

    • #8
  9. Peter Robinson Contributor
    Peter Robinson
    @PeterRobinson

    Western Chauvinist:Paging Fr. Sirico! Fr. Sirico to the Vatican — STAT!

    Ricochet is a fine daily read on a wide range of topics. Pope Francis needs a primer on economics from a Catholic conscience. There’s no one better suited than Fr. Sirico of the Acton Institute. He would also make an excellent podcast guest. Ahem.

    Blue Yeti, I agree. Can we find Fr. Sirico?

    • #9
  10. TG Thatcher
    TG
    @TG

    Aaron Miller:

    My argument to the Holy Father would be this:

    God’s gift of free will is so important that He endures terrible horrors and deprivations in our world rather than force all to be good. If God will not abridge free will to end starvation and injustice, how can we do otherwise?

    Willful good is more beautiful than automatic good. So that human beings may be more than mere animals, we must be free.

    The Holy Spirit’s gift of charity can only be shared voluntarily. If I am forced to help my neighbor, then my soul does not benefit from that act. Redistributive programs offer no beauty or love, only a shallow and impersonal materialism which deprives souls of charitable opportunity.

    I’m stealing that, Aaron.  I don’t know when I’m going to use it … but being prepared is a good thing!

    • #10
  11. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    He didn’t study such criticisms beforehand?  Seems ill-advised.

    • #11
  12. Paul A. Rahe Member
    Paul A. Rahe
    @PaulARahe

    Manny:I said this on Peter’s last post on the very same subject. I might as well repeat it here:

    The Pope may very well understand that capitalism is the best means of ending poverty, but he may still not find it acceptable. The process is as important as the outcome. If the devil were to give you a million dollars, with strings attached of course, then it would be immoral to take it. If the devil were to give the earth a gazillion dollars and end poverty while demanding his satanic requests, it would still be immoral to accept it. The means do not justify a utility. If the Pope looks at western capitalism (and i’m assuming he would conflate European Keynesian economics with American free market) and sees a vast loss of faith, same sex marriage, abortion, vast disparities in wealth, broken families, divorce, pornography, and a whole host of social ills, then he might conclude that western economics has made a deal with the devil, that is if he sees the economics as integral to our culture. And a Catholic would certainly see everything as integral. That’s how I’m reading the Holy Father.

    I’m sure Pope Francis is doesn’t understand economics. It may be that he doesn’t really care. The means may not in his view justify the ends.

    There is something to this, I suspect. But, in reaction, the man is embracing the rhetoric of Latin American populism — which has produced a result even worse . . . in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, and in Argentina. Moreover, if this is the driving force behind the Pope’s analysis, his professed desire that poverty be ended is fraudulent. For, if commercial society has its downside, it has a very considerable upside as well. The Caudillo politics of Latin American has impoverished populations. Bourgeois society has lifted an enormous number of people from poverty and it has given them the means with which to order their own lives.

    • #12
  13. Peter Robinson Contributor
    Peter Robinson
    @PeterRobinson

    Paul A. Rahe:

    Manny:

    I’m sure Pope Francis is doesn’t understand economics. It may be that he doesn’t really care. The means may not in his view justify the ends.

    There is something to this, I suspect. But, in reaction, the man is embracing the rhetoric of Latin American populism — which has produced a result even worse . . . in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, and in Argentina. Moreover, if this is the driving force behind the Pope’s analysis, his professed desire that poverty be ended is fraudulent. For, if commercial society has its downside, it has a very considerable upside as well. The Caudillo politics of Latin American has impoverished populations. Bourgeois society has lifted an enormous number of people from poverty and it has given them the means with which to order their own lives.

    Paul Rahe just tosses off stuff like this…and leaves me positively slack-jawed in admiration.

    • #13
  14. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Paul A. Rahe

    There is something to this, I suspect. But, in reaction, the man is embracing the rhetoric of Latin American populism — which has produced a result even worse . . . in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, and in Argentina. Moreover, if this is the driving force behind the Pope’s analysis, his professed desire that poverty be ended is fraudulent. For, if commercial society has its downside, it has a very considerable upside as well. The Caudillo politics of Latin American has impoverished populations. Bourgeois society has lifted an enormous number of people from poverty and it has given them the means with which to order their own lives.

    Yes, but Latin American populism may be the only economic language his tongue has on hand.  He’s stated he’s against the socialists/Marxists.  He’s stated he’s against capitalism.  The question is what is he for.  I’ve speculated on a previous post somewhere here he’s for Distributism.  Maybe he’s not even for that.  Maybe his understanding of economics is so limited than he doesn’t know what he’s for.  Perhaps all he understands is that scripture tells him money is an idol, and that it’s harder to get to salvation for the rich than passing through the needle’s eye, and so all forms of economics (Marxists and capitalism) is essentially making a deal with satan.  The results in both systems have led to a falling from faith.

    • #14
  15. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Peter Robinson

    Paul A. Rahe:

    Manny:

    I’m sure Pope Francis is doesn’t understand economics. It may be that he doesn’t really care. The means may not in his view justify the ends.

    There is something to this, I suspect. But, in reaction, the man is embracing the rhetoric of Latin American populism — which has produced a result even worse . . . in Cuba, in Venezuela, in Ecuador, and in Argentina. Moreover, if this is the driving force behind the Pope’s analysis, his professed desire that poverty be ended is fraudulent. For, if commercial society has its downside, it has a very considerable upside as well. The Caudillo politics of Latin American has impoverished populations. Bourgeois society has lifted an enormous number of people from poverty and it has given them the means with which to order their own lives.

    Paul Rahe just tosses off stuff like this…and leaves me positively slack-jawed in admiration.

    Oh I personally agree with Paul.  I’m trying to get into the Holy Father’s line of thinking.

    • #15
  16. Larry3435 Inactive
    Larry3435
    @Larry3435

    Not understanding economics, at least macroeconomics, is forgivable.  After all, no one understands it, including economists.  Not understanding history is less forgivable.  The economic decline, poverty, and misery that always follow in the wake of socialist policies is plainly there for anyone to see.  In the former Soviet Union, in Cuba, in Venezuela, and in now mostly abandoned policies of China and India, among others.  The results are obvious.  Even if the Pope does not understand Hayek, even if he does not understand why socialist policies fail, he should at least notice that they do fail.

    I will cut the Pope some slack in one regard.  In South America where the Pope was raised, “capitalism” often means crony capitalism.  I have notice that there are really ony two forms of government in South American countries.  (1) socialist governments where El Presidente “nationalizes” assets and shares them with his cronies; and (2) “capitalist” governments, where El Presidente’s is selected by cronies who already control the assets, and who pay off El Presidente’s government.  Given that background, no wonder the Pope thinks all economies stink.

    • #16
  17. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Peter Robinson:

    Western Chauvinist:Paging Fr. Sirico! Fr. Sirico to the Vatican — STAT!

    Ricochet is a fine daily read on a wide range of topics. Pope Francis needs a primer on economics from a Catholic conscience. There’s no one better suited than Fr. Sirico of the Acton Institute. He would also make an excellent podcast guest. Ahem.

    Blue Yeti, I agree. Can we find Fr. Sirico?

    Peter, Have you ever interviewed Fr. Sirico for Uncommon Knowledge? He has a great left-to-right conversion story in addition to the story of his vocational call. He’s an engaging speaker all around. And maybe you could use Acton Institute’s Poverty Cure for a jumping off point to talk about Pope Francis. Just a thought.

    • #17
  18. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Larry, you’re assuming he has read histories similar to those we have read. Considering how much erroneous history I was taught in American public schools, the misrepresentations are probably worse in overtly socialist and fascist South American nations.

    • #18
  19. Aaron Miller Inactive
    Aaron Miller
    @AaronMiller

    Paul makes an excellent point that free markets can empower free will by increasing opportunities. But I would add two caveats.

    First, non-legal aspects of culture can restrict that moral freedom. Even if our laws don’t mandate the firing of “bigoted” employees, it is becoming more difficult to hold a job in America while voicing traditional views even outside the work setting.

    Second, as parents teach their teenage children, greater freedom requires greater responsibility. Though it might be immoral to paternalistically deny the uneducated and other persons the same freedoms we enjoy, it is also reckless to expect all persons to be capable of equal freedom. Greater freedom requires not only greater discernment and self-discipline among the capable, but also greater care of those who prove less capable.

    It’s also worth cautioning against the anti-Christian trap of total self-determination. God creates us with inherent natures, relationships, roles, and the inescapable duty to pursue His love. The false promise of total self-rule is why errors like transsexuality are now celebrated.

    • #19
  20. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Manny

      Maybe his understanding of economics is so limited than he doesn’t know what he’s for. Perhaps all he understands is that scripture tells him money is an idol, and that it’s harder to get to salvation for the rich than passing through the needle’s eye, and so all forms of economics (Marxists and capitalism) is essentially making a deal with satan.

    Let me substantiate that proposition further.  On more than one occasion now, Pope Francis has stated that money is “devil’s dung.”  That would apply to just about any economic system.  I’m not sure he cares about the economic system.  I think he’s criticizing a money centered life.  Which would not be far afield from St. Francis of Assisi, his personal patron saint.

    • #20
  21. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    A Radical Vatican?” is noteworthy not only as an example of how secular figures that the Vatican itself considers as allies are treating the encyclical as an epochal break from Catholic tradition, but also for its passages about the theological intentions behind the encyclical. (See below; emphases ours.) Here we find Naomi Klein quoting Fr. Seán McDonagh, who is part of the “administrative team” of the ultra-liberal and theologically dissident “Association of Catholic Priests” (ACP) in Ireland — and was involved in drafting the encyclical. McDonagh’s role in drafting Laudato Si is trumpeted not just by the ACP’s website (which calls him “one of the chief advisors to the Vatican in the composition of the encylical”) but by his own congregation (the Columbans — see this) and by Vatican Radio, which not only acknowledges that he was one of the theologians consulted for the encyclical, but also chose to interview him about its importance. (Keep in mind that it is exceedingly rare for any of the actual drafters or advisors for an Encyclical to be publicly identified by official Church sources.)

    Its far, far worse than you imagine.

    • #21
  22. user_3444 Coolidge
    user_3444
    @JosephStanko

    Manny:

    Let me substantiate that proposition further. On more than one occasion now, Pope Francis has stated that money is “devil’s dung.” That would apply to just about any economic system. I’m not sure he cares about the economic system. I think he’s criticizing a money centered life. Which would not be far afield from St. Francis of Assisi, his personal patron saint.

    1 Timothy 6:10 (RSVCE)

    For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with many pangs.

    • #22
  23. Frank Soto Member
    Frank Soto
    @FrankSoto

    Manny: On more than one occasion now, Pope Francis has stated that money is “devil’s dung.”  That would apply to just about any economic system.  I’m not sure he cares about the economic system.  I think he’s criticizing a money centered life.  Which would not be far afield from St. Francis of Assisi, his personal patron saint.

    His criticisms have extended specifically to capitalism, so I don’t believe this is correct.

    Money is tool which makes all of our lives substantially better.

    Joseph Stanko: 1 Timothy 6:10 (RSVCE) For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced their hearts with many pangs.

    Key words have been bolded.

    • #23
  24. user_3444 Coolidge
    user_3444
    @JosephStanko

    Frank Soto: Key words have been bolded.

    Agreed.

    Frank Soto: Money is tool which makes all of our lives substantially better.

    Money is a tool, a means to an end.  The end is human flourishing, to make our lives substantially better — all lives, everyone, including the poor and the vulnerable.

    We need to constantly evaluate our political and economic systems against that standard: do they provide opportunities for the poor to escape from poverty?  Do they harm the environment, which in turns harms anyone who breathes polluted air or drinks contaminated water?  Do they respect human dignity, or do they exploit the vulnerable?

    Then we need to adjust our systems whenever they fall short of these standards.  Love of money, maximizing profit or GDP, cannot be our sole criteria, we must look at the bigger picture.

    • #24
  25. Pseudodionysius Inactive
    Pseudodionysius
    @Pseudodionysius

    The end is human flourishing

    The end is the 4 Last Things: Death, Judgement, Hell, Heaven

    • #25
  26. user_3444 Coolidge
    user_3444
    @JosephStanko

    Pseudodionysius:

    The end is human flourishing

    The end is the 4 Last Things: Death, Judgement, Hell, Heaven

    The end of human life, yes, absolutely.

    My statement was specifically about the end of money.  Is money a means to salvation?  I suppose it could be, though the Gospels suggest it (or at least the love of it) is more often a means toward damnation.

    • #26
  27. Autistic License Coolidge
    Autistic License
    @AutisticLicense

    Somebody quote Francisco D’Anconia. Maybe Francis will see it.

    • #27
  28. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Frank Soto:

    His criticisms have extended specifically to capitalism, so I don’t believe this is correct.

    Money is tool which makes all of our lives substantially better.

    Joseph Stanko: 1 Timothy 6:10 (RSVCE) For the love of money is the root of all evils;

    Key words have been bolded.

    The criticisms are pointed at capitalism, but then Marxism has failed.  It’s no longer a viable option.  There’s nothing more to say about it.

    Right, “love of money” is the root of evil but look at western culture and you’ll find by and large the average person focuses his life on money than on God, even those that are somewhat religious.  And not by a small margin.  So actions speak louder than words.  Also, I could pull 50 quotes from the New Testament that criticizes wealth and money.  Here’s one:

    “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. (Matthew 6:24)

    That is why I think the Holy Father has been so vocal on the issue.  He is trying to preach the anti prosperity Gospel.

    • #28
  29. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Manny:

    Right, “love of money” is the root of evil but look at western culture and you’ll find by and large the average person focuses his life on money than on God, even those that are somewhat religious. And not by a small margin. So actions speak louder than words. Also, I could pull 50 quotes from the New Testament that criticizes wealth and money. Here’s one:

    “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. (Matthew 6:24)

    That is why I think the Holy Father has been so vocal on the issue. He is trying to preach the anti prosperity Gospel.

    I agree with you, Manny, that rich westerners should worry about the state of their souls. I worry about it a lot.

    Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the Holy Father’s emphasis. He seems to be against capitalism because he’s “for the poor.” Well, the poor would seem to be in less danger spiritually, so he must be concerned for their material well-being. In which case, his message becomes utterly incoherent. Nothing has done more for the poor materially than capitalism, as you know.

    This is what reveals Francis as a zero-sum socialist. It be may subconscious, but he seems to believe the poor are poor because the rich are rich. It’s nonsense.

    • #29
  30. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Western Chauvinist:

    I agree with you, Manny, that rich westerners should worry about the state of their souls. I worry about it a lot.

    Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be the Holy Father’s emphasis. He seems to be against capitalism because he’s “for the poor.” Well, the poor would seem to be in less danger spiritually, so he must be concerned for their material well-being. In which case, his message becomes utterly incoherent. Nothing has done more for the poor materially than capitalism, as you know.

    This is what reveals Francis as a zero-sum socialist. It be may subconscious, but he seems to believe the poor are poor because the rich are rich. It’s nonsense.

    You might be right, though he has come out against socialism and Marxism.  If you go back to one of my previous comments, I just think he’s ignrant on economics, the only language he has on his tongue is South American populism, and he’s trying, perhaps awkwardly, trying to make people realize that we all focus our lives on money in the modern world and that comes with costs.  I don’t think he makes a disciplined argument.  I think he jumbles things all over.  I’m just trying to understand him and finding there just isn’t any coherence.

    I’m a free market guy, and I worry about the state of my soul too!

    • #30
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