Where’s the GOP Law-and-Order Candidate?

 
Where's the GOP's law-and-order candidate?

Where’s the GOP law-and-order candidate?

Is there a GOP law-and-order candidate? Murders in Atlanta are up 32% since mid-May. Murders in Chicago are up 17%, and shootings 24%. In St. Louis, in the aftermath of Ferguson, shootings are up 39%, robberies 43%, and murders 25%. In Baltimore, scene of the worst urban riots in two generations, law and order is in extended meltdown, with 32 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone. As Heather Mac Donald’s disturbing column in last weekend’s Wall Street Journal makes clear:

The most plausible explanation of the current surge in lawlessness is the intense agitation against American police departments over the past nine months. Since last summer, the airwaves have been dominated by suggestions that the police are the biggest threat facing young black males today. A handful of highly publicized deaths of unarmed black men, often following a resisted arrest—including Eric Garner in Staten Island, N.Y., in July 2014, Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., in August 2014 and Freddie Gray in Baltimore last month—have led to riots, violent protests and attacks on the police. Murders of officers jumped 89% in 2014, to 51 from 27.

Left-wing politicians have been waging a war on cops that’s left civil society imploding in many major cities.

America is now waiting for the one member of the burgeoning field of Republican presidential candidates who will speak up for our embattled men and women in blue—and for the fundamental principles of law and order.

The president, the past and present attorneys general, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, and presidential candidate Hillary Clinton have been accusing the criminal justice system of systematic racism and blaming cops — not the rioters or shooters — for the growing violence. In effect, they’re putting a bullseye around our law enforcement officers’ necks.

In short, Democrat politicians aren’t just foes of the “broken windows” approach to law enforcement; they’re now cheering on those breaking the windows.

This is a case crying out for a Republican counterattack. It’s time for one of those White House aspirants to take the fight to the enemy, namely progressive liberalism’s perverted social vision in which it’s the police who are the problem, and even violent felons are merely victims of an “unfair” socio-economic order.

So where is the candidate who is going to speak to police associations to tell them they are our nation’s heroes, not our disgrace?

Where’s the candidate doing a press conference with Sheriff  David Clarke of Milwaukee to point out that homicides in that city are up 180% from last year and that the real victims of the collapse of law and order are the poor and the working class?

Where’s the candidate standing with Rudy Giuliani and former Police Commissioner Ray Kelly to blast Bill de Blasio’s abandonment of “stop and frisk” and the state attorney general’s plan to appoint a state prosecutor whose only job will be to prosecute cops who dare to use deadly force against perpetrators?

Where’s the candidate taking it to Hillary for endorsing the Al Sharpton line that the police act out of racial bias, not out of a desire to protect life and property? Who’s going to call her to account for fomenting racial tension  in hopes of getting votes?

Where’s the candidate who’s going to inner cities and barrios to talk to ordinary people for whom the drunks, prostitutes, pimps, drug dealers, and muggers that liberals embrace actually pose an existential threat? Where’s the candidate that knows that an effective police force  is the thin blue line standing between civilization and chaos—and between life and death?

For any Republican candidate looking for an issue that will appeal to black and Hispanic working families, this is it. Being the candidate advocating for law and order is an electoral strategy that works. It’s also the right thing to do.

So, where’s the GOP law-and-order candidate for 2016?

Published in Policing
Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 99 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Butters Inactive
    Butters
    @CommodoreBTC

    the more laws there are, the less order there will be

    the reverse is also true

    • #31
  2. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Great thought.  You’re right, and I completely disagree on this being a losing issue.  (I bet that comes from the libertarians, who are partially anti police anyway.)  This is a huge winning issue, and would be a natural for any of the Governors: Jeb, Perry, Walker, Kasich.  Huckabee has been wishywashy on law and order, so would not work for him.  Jeb and Perry have solid law and order records.

    • #32
  3. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Commodore BTC

    the more laws there are, the less order there will be

    the reverse is also true

    And your evidence for that is what?  Where?  I have said before, Libertarians and Liberals come from the same philosophy, just implemented differently.

    • #33
  4. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Let me remind people what the father of conservatism had to say on the subject:

    “The only liberty that is valuable is a liberty connected with order; that not only exists along with order and virtue, but which cannot exist at all without them. It inheres in good and steady government, as in its substance and vital principle.”  – Edmund Burke

    And let me also remind what the greatest mayor of my lifetime had to say as a corollary to Edmund Burke on how he accomplished the dramatic reductions in crime by the heavy handed enforcing of broken window laws, including stop and frisk:

    “Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.” –Rudolph Guiliani

    • #34
  5. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Seawriter:Put me in the “I should care about this, why?” camp. Every community in which this happens votes for or supports policies that make crime rise.

    It is a local problem. The solutions lie locally, not nationally.

    You don’t see it in Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio. These cities tend to be run by Democrats, but if they let crime go through the roof, they get turfed out of office. In other words, communities get the crime they tolerate.

    You did not see it in New York City for nearly 20 years – except citizens there got bored with low crime and graffiti-free streets and voted in an administration which is returning to the “gritty” old days when “Escape from New York” was filmed.

    If citizens want to turn their cities into cesspools . . . well, that is what freedom is about – the freedom to make bad choices.

    As long as those running cities are willing to tolerate high crime levels and as long as citizens in those cities keep re-electing those enabling thugs, I say let them stew in it. It is what they want.

    When they get tired of living in a cesspool they will clean it up. Until then? Activity on a national level? Fuggetaboutit.

    Seawriter

    Because the preservation of civil society demands you care.

    Broken communities become like those broken windows, they spread the contagion of lawlessness out into wider and wider circles,  until it’s outside your door.

    My point is that this is a cultural issue, not just a policy issue.

    • #35
  6. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Manny:

    Quite right.  Burke understood: how a society sees its laws is as important as the wealth it creates: maybe more so.   The presence of large pockets of lawlessness and chaos in American society, especially its cities, is a corruption that ultimately affects all of us.

    • #36
  7. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Commodore BTC:the more laws there are, the less order there will be

    the reverse is also true

    Statutory laws maybe, the rule of law no.

    • #37
  8. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    Manny:Great thought. You’re right, and I completely disagree on this being a losing issue. (I bet that comes from the libertarians, who are partially anti police anyway.) This is a huge winning issue, and would be a natural for any of the Governors: Jeb, Perry, Walker, Kasich. …. Jeb and Perry have solid law and order records.

    “Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.” –Rudolph Guiliani   Josef Stalin

    Let me get this straight. You want a candidate like Jeb or Rick, while running for President, have a federal policy or stand on local jurisdictions -I thought hat’s what Democrats do – – but anyway, you want them to pick an issue, “law and order” that most minorities believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are being singled out and over policed, where they believe advocates of this law and order is thinly disguised racism, when these folks vote Democrat already by almost a 20-1 margin, you are going to save them from themselves and think this is a political winner?

    All the while holding the paranoid notion that stealth ‘libertarians’, who don’t much like police, are the ones who are formulating these arguments to discourage Republican candidates from seizing this ‘winning’ issue?

    PS I can’t believe Rudy said that, it must be out of context. Even out of context, them’s chilling words. 

    • #38
  9. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Palaeologus:

    Jim Kearney:We live in a nationalized media environment. Returning law and order to the national political agenda would say “no more riots, let’s elect Republicans” on the national level. That’s what happened in 1968. The Left is re-rerunning the 1960′s playbook, but the Right had a better game plan. Saul Alinsky lost, and the Nixon campaign won.

    Yeah it’s probably good general election politics, Jim. But it isn’t 1968.

    The GOP base voters mostly don’t live near the rioters anymore.

    IMHO, they’re much more likely to be concerned about incarceration rates, the Drug War, federalism/ subsidiarity, and due process than anarchy. Center-Right media seemingly bear that out.

    So do relatively centrist actors at the state level, see: Daniels, Mitch prison reform.

    Given that, any “Law and Order” candidate who has an actual chance had better keep it on the down-low until the general. My eleven cents.

    “The GOP base voters mostly don’t live near the rioters anymore.” 

    Most in 1968 didn’t, either. But the violence doesn’t stay in the inner cities or Democrat-run cities; it’s a contagion, not a social event.

    • #39
  10. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Robert McReynolds:Big Data? No law enforcement need to establish probable cause, seek the issuing of warrants, and stop trying to cut corners on their relationship between their role in society and the rights of a free people. I am damned tired of this idea that we need to live in a quasi-police state in order to stay safe. It is time Conservatives start to think about the role of law enforcement in the US.

    Spoken like a true Rand Paul voter.  As far as I know, Rand is the only GOP candidate who has sided with the rioters in Ferguson.

    • #40
  11. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    Arthur Herman:

    Robert McReynolds:Big Data? No law enforcement need to establish probable cause, seek the issuing of warrants, and stop trying to cut corners on their relationship between their role in society and the rights of a free people. I am damned tired of this idea that we need to live in a quasi-police state in order to stay safe. It is time Conservatives start to think about the role of law enforcement in the US.

    Spoken like a true Rand Paul voter. As far as I know, Rand is the only GOP candidate who has sided with the rioters in Ferguson.

    Sided? Really? Can I get a quote?

    • #41
  12. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Misthiocracy:

    Arthur Herman: Murders in Atlanta are up 32% since mid-May. Murders in Chicago are up 17%, and shootings 24%. In St. Louis, in the aftermath of Ferguson, shootings are up 39%, robberies 43%, and murders 25%. In Baltimore, scene of the worst urban riots in two generations, law and order is in extended meltdown, with 32 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone.

    What do you suggest a President should direct the federal government to do in these cities? A “law and order candidate” needs to promise what they’ll DO if elected.

    The best promise (IMHO, of course) would be to get the federal level out of the hair of local and state police, but that would hardly be described as a “law and order agenda”, and I doubt it’s the sort of promise that someone like Rudy Giuliani would make.

    You need to think less about policy, and more about leadership on this issue.

    You are probably correct about the need for the feds to back off, but it’s also about getting liberals to back off, as well, with their romanticized view of crime and criminals–and their vilification of law enforcement which I’m finding in this blog spot some our libertarian buddies share!

    • #42
  13. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Arthur Herman:Because the preservation of civil society demands you care.

    Broken communities become like those broken windows, they spread the contagion of lawlessness out into wider and wider circles, until it’s outside your door.

    My point is that this is a cultural issue, not just a policy issue.

    After Katrina a significant amount of folks from New Orleans – a lawless city – came to Houston. The greatest percentage were hard-working and honest folk. They thrived in Houston.

    As for the thugs and gangstas? They soon discovered Texas does not hold with “catch-and-release” for criminals. There was an upward blip in crime until the malefactors were caught and jailed or left Texas for communities more willing to cater to their proclivities.

    That is the ones that were not shot and killed by honest Texas citizens defending their lives and property left. The contagion of lawlessness did not spread. It was contained and eliminated. By the local citizens and local officials, without Federal intervention.

    The preservation of civil society demands you care about your neighborhood, but a representative government depends upon people taking responsibility for their own neighborhoods, and accepting the consequences of their actions for good or ill.

    Seawriter

    • #43
  14. Arthur Herman Member
    Arthur Herman
    @ArthurHerman

    Randy Weivoda:

    Misthiocracy:

    Arthur Herman: Murders in Atlanta are up 32% since mid-May. Murders in Chicago are up 17%, and shootings 24%. In St. Louis, in the aftermath of Ferguson, shootings are up 39%, robberies 43%, and murders 25%. In Baltimore, scene of the worst urban riots in two generations, law and order is in extended meltdown, with 32 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone.

    What do you suggest a President should direct the federal government to do in these cities? A “law and order candidate” needs to promise what they’ll DO if elected.

    The best promise (IMHO, of course) would be to get the federal level out of the hair of local and state police, but that would hardly be described as a “law and order agenda”, and I doubt it’s the sort of promise that someone like Rudy Giuliani would make.

    You beat me to it. What I want in a president is someone who knows the difference between federal, state, and local jurisdictions.

    It would also be good to have one who knows that no society can survive without the rule of law, or can survive politicians who encourage its overthrow–and a president who can articulate that view across the racial spectrum.

    • #44
  15. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    What’s with the name-calling? This is something liberal Democrats do. Note, I’m not calling you a liberal Democrat, in case you have trouble making certain distinctions – which I suspect.

    I have had many debates with leftists Democrats, and the moment I support a cause that is somewhere to their right, they say something like “so you’re a Republican?” and proceed to vilify me as one who walks in lockstep with every Republican issue they have ever encountered. I won’t argue with such a person because they are small-minded and insincere.

    This is being done continually by some people here. Libertarian is a dirty word to these folks and they use it as both a smear and a way to hide from logical dissent.

    Just like if I stand for the second amendment or defend George W from unfair attacks, or say something negative about Obama, these folks claim I’m some label and proceed to dismiss my arguments on that basis.

    I do not identify myself as a libertarian. I have not voted for a Democrat since John Glenn ran for Senate and I regret that vote. I voted for Reagan and both Bushes.

    You can either listen to dissent as it is, or claim people like me are ‘libertarians’ and keep yourself from addressing the issues.

    • #45
  16. user_138562 Moderator
    user_138562
    @RandyWeivoda

    Arthur Herman, where are your limits regarding federal authority?  What serious problems do you believe must be handled strictly at the local or state level?

    • #46
  17. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Franco

    Let me get this straight. You want a candidate like Jeb or Rick, while running for President, have a federal policy or stand on local jurisdictions -I thought hat’s what Democrats do – – but anyway, you want them to pick an issue, “law and order” that most minorities believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are being singled out and over policed, where they believe advocates of this law and order is thinly disguised racism, when these folks vote Democrat already by almost a 20-1 margin, you are going to save them from themselves and think this is a political winner?

    All the while holding the paranoid notion that stealth ‘libertarians’, who don’t much like police, are the ones who are formulating these arguments to discourage Republican candidates from seizing this ‘winning’ issue?

    PS I can’t believe Rudy said that, it must be out of context. Even out of context, them’s chilling words.

    Rudy said that and he’s repeatedly said stuff like that.  He was my mayor (I live in NYC) and he was called a dictator.  And he did a great job!

    There is currently federal assistance to police across the country.  Reagan supported it and so did Clinton if I remember.  A lot has to do with the Attoney General.  There is coordination and funding assistance.  Yes, I support that, especially giving the police the latitude and equipment to do their jobs.  Didn’t Rand Paul decry the over arming of the police?

    • #47
  18. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Three Felonies a Day reflects part of the reality of the law.

    Civil asset forfeiture is the law. Should we enforce and expand that?

    The EPA? The law. Obamacare? The law (and the source, as is becoming all too common, of regulation and administrative rule.)

    Selective enforcement is a necessity of Big Law and Big Regulation. As more and more laws and regulations accrete, selective enforcement becomes tyranny. IRS and the Tea Party anyone?

    Maybe the central issue isn’t law and order, but the reach of the administrative state which kills liberty under the color of law.

    “Law-and-order” is a glib slogan. The reality is much messier.

    • #48
  19. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    Manny:

    PS I can’t believe Rudy said that, it must be out of context. Even out of context, them’s chilling words.

    Rudy said that and he’s repeatedly said stuff like that. He was my mayor (I live in NYC) and he was called a dictator. And he did a great job!

    There is currently federal assistance to police across the country. Reagan supported it and so did Clinton if I remember. A lot has to do with the Attoney General. There is coordination and funding assistance. Yes, I support that, especially giving the police the latitude and equipment to do their jobs. Didn’t Rand Paul decry the over arming of the police?

    Clinton initiated the 100,000 cops on the street thing. It was yet another way the federal government could get into local politics. I don’t remember Reagan on that subject.

    Rand Paul did, yes. While we need a good and strong police force in every community, we don’t need tanks and military equipment. There’s a difference. This is not an anti- police position. Nor does it need to be a ‘libertarian’ position.

    If you believe that no President will ever become a tyrant, then it all seems quite benign. If you believe as I do, that one could, (not Obama of course, noooo) then you might be more wary.

    • #49
  20. Jim Kearney Member
    Jim Kearney
    @JimKearney

    Crime went away as an issue because of what Giuliani and company did to crush it.

    Maybe younger conservatives and libertarians need to read up on what happened. NYPD Battles Crime by Eli Silverman covers it from an academic perspective. The Crime Fighter: Putting the Bad Guys Out of Business by Jack Maple with Chris Mitchell tells the story first hand, along with accounts from Giuliani himself, and police commissioners Bratton, Safir, Timoney, and Kerik.  You might also want to check Heather MacDonald‘s many articles, including those in City Journal.

    Crime is up because we’ve forgotten these lessons learned in the 1990’s. Violent crime, and the phony media charade of the Soros-sponsored riot “activists” strike me as nationally viable 2016 campaign issues.

    Other crimes like entitlement fraud, political abuse of the IRS, identity theft, criminal abuse of the immigration system, etc. may or may not be ideal campaign issues, but should be forcefully addressed by the next Republican-appointed Attorney General.

    I’ll be more interested in what libertarians have to say about law enforcement after one of them runs a major city.

    • #50
  21. Ball Diamond Ball Member
    Ball Diamond Ball
    @BallDiamondBall

    The words “Federal Asset” should scare your poop right out of its holster.

    • #51
  22. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @MatthewSinger

    Curious how you come up with the Baltimore riots being the worst in two generations.  Do you mean in just Baltimore?

    • #52
  23. Butters Inactive
    Butters
    @CommodoreBTC

    if laws were limited to primarily the prevention of violence and theft, there would be more order

    • #53
  24. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Franco

    Rand Paul did, yes. While we need a good and strong police force in every community, we don’t need tanks and military equipment. There’s a difference. This is not an anti- police position. Nor does it need to be a ‘libertarian’ position.

    I don’t recall tanks ever being suggested for local police.  From what I remember Rand Paul was decrying the body armor, shields, helmets, and upgunning.

    If you believe that no President will ever become a tyrant, then it all seems quite benign. If you believe as I do, that one could, (not Obama of course, noooo) then you might be more wary.

    That’s part of the Libertarian silliness, that we are an inch away from tyranny, and therefore every freedom, not matter how self-indugent, must be cultivated.  Everything I’ve suggested was already part of pre-1960s America.  Were we a tyranny then?

    • #54
  25. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Jim Kearney

    Crime went away as an issue because of what Giuliani and company did to crush it.

    Maybe younger conservatives and libertarians need to read up on what happened. NYPD Battles Crime by Eli Silverman covers it from an academic perspective. The Crime Fighter: Putting the Bad Guys Out of Business by Jack Maple with Chris Mitchell tells the story first hand, along with accounts from Giuliani himself, and police commissioners Bratton, Safir, Timoney, and Kerik. You might also want to check Heather MacDonald‘s many articles, including those in City Journal.

    Crime is up because we’ve forgotten these lessons learned in the 1990′s. Violent crime, and the phony media charade of the Soros-sponsored riot “activists” strike me as nationally viable 2016 campaign issues.

    Other crimes like entitlement fraud, political abuse of the IRS, identity theft, criminal abuse of the immigration system, etc. may or may not be ideal campaign issues, but should be forcefully addressed by the next Republican-appointed Attorney General.

    I’ll be more interested in what libertarians have to say about law enforcement after one of them runs a major city.

    Thank you.  Part of the reason I’ve been so critical of Libertarians since joining Ricochet is because this new generation on the right has drifted into a radical freedom ideology, which was never part of conservatism.

    • #55
  26. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    Manny

    Part of the reason I’ve been so critical of Libertarians since joining Ricochet is because this new generation on the right has drifted into a radical freedom ideology, which was never part of conservatism.

    I have been voting for conservatives probably before you threw your first baseball. In any case I’m not sure you understand your terms or that you can discern the difference between a constitutional conservative and a liberal hiding behind the term ‘libertarian’. There are all kinds of ideologies, but you seem to think there are only two, your ‘conservatism’ whatever that is, and everyone else.

    Someone who thinks freedom, or ‘every freedom’ is “self indulgent” is reading from some strange set of talking points that don’t reflect reality, much less our Founders ideas and the Constitution.

    You seem to be of the opinion that our government is some benign positive force that can grow and have limitless powers all for our own good. That laws and policies enacted will change once the problem is solved. I invite you to look at the history of repealed laws in this country and get back to me.

    • #56
  27. Ontheleftcoast Inactive
    Ontheleftcoast
    @Ontheleftcoast

    Arthur Herman:

    Misthiocracy:

    Arthur Herman: Murders in Atlanta are up 32% since mid-May. Murders in Chicago are up 17%, and shootings 24%. In St. Louis, in the aftermath of Ferguson, shootings are up 39%, robberies 43%, and murders 25%. In Baltimore, scene of the worst urban riots in two generations, law and order is in extended meltdown, with 32 shootings over the Memorial Day weekend alone.

    What do you suggest a President should direct the federal government to do in these cities? A “law and order candidate” needs to promise what they’ll DO if elected.

    The best promise (IMHO, of course) would be to get the federal level out of the hair of local and state police, but that would hardly be described as a “law and order agenda”, and I doubt it’s the sort of promise that someone like Rudy Giuliani would make.

    You need to think less about policy, and more about leadership on this issue.

    You are probably correct about the need for the feds to back off, but it’s also about getting liberals to back off, as well, with their romanticized view of crime and criminals–and their vilification of law enforcement which I’m finding in this blog spot some our libertarian buddies share!

    Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.

    • #57
  28. Ricochet Member
    Ricochet
    @

    Franco: If you believe that no President will ever become a tyrant, then it all seems quite benign. If you believe as I do, that one could, (not Obama of course, noooo) then you might be more wary.

    Manny: That’s part of the Libertarian silliness, that we are an inch away from tyranny, and therefore every freedom, not matter how self-indugent, must be cultivated.  Everything I’ve suggested was already part of pre-1960s America.  Were we a tyranny then?

    Here in black and white is you reading what isn’t there. Exaggerating words and then riffing off of them may work in conversation when you are debating your high school mates, but here we can see what I said, and what you said in response.

    Who said we are an “inch away from tyranny’? I have not said we are a tyranny, so your question, “Were we a tyranny then?” Is inapplicable.

    Yet, things have changed. I was alive in the 60’s and I read the paper every day. I remember those times and I read the paper today. Things are vastly different when it comes to freedom in this country. Even the most moderate Republican can see the danger that Obama has taken too much executive power for himself and the Presidency. You don’t think so?

    Libertarian silliness?  Obviously you have a feeble grasp of the Bill of Rights.

    • #58
  29. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Manny:Thank you. Part of the reason I’ve been so critical of Libertarians since joining Ricochet is because this new generation on the right has drifted into a radical freedom ideology, which was never part of conservatism.

    A radical freedom ideology? You mean like what was posited in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights?

    Traditional conservatism has no place for a radical freedom ideology. Its roots come from the divine right of kings. Its inheritors are today’s “progressives.”

    Modern American conservatism is rooted in classical liberalism – the liberalism of Washington, Jefferson, and Franklin.  It was a radical freedom ideology when it emerged.  The Republican Party, when formed, was rooted in abolition of slavery and the primacy of the citizen over the state.  It was a radical freedom ideology back then.

    A republic cannot work if its citizens do not take responsibility for and accept the consequences of their actions. It cannot work unless government has limited and specific powers. Since the alternative to a republic is either mob rule or tyranny -neither of which I find desirable – I will continue to maintain the government’s power must be limited, and that communities (not the Federal government) set the standards by which they wish to live. If they set good standards they prosper.  If they choose poorly they do not. It is the price of having a representative government.

    I am not a libertarian – I am a republican (lower-case R).

    Seawriter

    • #59
  30. Ricochet Coolidge
    Ricochet
    @Manny

    Franco

    There are all kinds of ideologies, but you seem to think there are only two, your ‘conservatism’ whatever that is, and everyone else.

    Where did I say there are only two kinds?  Where did that come from???

    Someone who thinks freedom, or ‘every freedom’ is “self indulgent” is reading from some strange set of talking points that don’t reflect reality, much less our Founders ideas and the Constitution.

    The Constitution is not a Libertarian document.  Just the opposite.  It presents a process for which laws are to be implemented, laws which curtail absolute freedom.  The Bill of Rights were added just so some rights could not be intruded upon.  Otherwise everything else is up for legislative judgement.  For instance, taxation is constitutional, even a 90% level of taxation as was in the 1950s.  In NYC, we have rent stabilized apartments, meaning landlords are regulated in how they adjust rents on their property.  In NYC we had until recently stop and frisk laws, which madeNYC the safest big city in the country.  There are laws that force people into social security and medicare, all constitutional.  In fact Obamacare forces people to buy insurance, deemed constitutional.  Now I don’t necessarily agree with all these but they are constitutional.  I repeat, the constitution is not a Libertarian document.  In fact the Revolutionary War was not faught over liberty, but over legislative representation.

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.