Promoted from the Ricochet Member Feed by Editors Created with Sketch. Flyover 34 – Exjoning your Sports Drink

 

For those of you Flagship Podcast addicts currently experiencing the delirium tremens brought on by this week’s cold-spell, take heed! Direct your shaking hand down to the play button; Flyover Country is here to placate the masses of podcast-hungry members and lurkers with our modestly-clever, always charming*, deep*, and insightful* commentary on all the issues of the day. Today, we are joined by twitter-troll and Ricochet editor Jon Gabriel, who isn’t terribly pleased with the FLOTUS, and who suspects that victim status may be the next political trump card.

 

Also, do you love cycling!? We hate it, too. Let’s tax those entitled wannabe motorists off our roads. Or, if you disagree, stop lurking and draft up a post all about why we’re wrong!

* [Citation Needed]

There are 27 comments.

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  1. Pleated Pants Forever Inactive

    Well at least someone could bother to get a podcast out today. Thanks, R and T. Will give it a listen on the way home.

    • #1
    • May 14, 2015, at 2:43 PM PDT
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  2. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Pleated Pants Forever:Well at least someone could bother to get a podcast out today. Thanks, R and T. Will give it a listen on the way home.

    Oh, it was totally calculated. We were actually slated for tomorrow, but I rushed it in the hopes that we could poach some of the flagship listeners. :)

    • #2
    • May 14, 2015, at 2:46 PM PDT
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  3. 1967mustangman Inactive

    In defense of bicyclist who shave their arms and legs my buddy who is a avid off-road biker told me he didn’t shave for aerodynamics he shaved because road-rash and hair are a really bad combinaiton.

    • #3
    • May 14, 2015, at 2:59 PM PDT
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  4. Pleated Pants Forever Inactive

    Ryan – that’s it, stick to the man! This podcast is so good it makes awesome look like total crap. We don’t need comrades Long, Lileks, and Robinson telling us when we can listen to a podcast. We don’t need commissars Gabriel and Meyer fixing the grammar in our posts. I’ve learned from this podcast that we can do it all overselves. Wolverines!

    OK, I have not actually listened to the new podcast yet but I assume I will believe all these things after I do. Pretty soon the sponsors will come and we’ll get to hear all about how Terry loves his Casper mattress so much he brings it along when he travels and how Ryan only cut himself three times with his Harry’s razor

    • #4
    • May 14, 2015, at 3:43 PM PDT
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  5. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Pleated Pants Forever:Ryan – that’s it, stick to the man! This podcast is so good it makes awesome look like total crap. We don’t need comrades Long, Lileks, and Robinson telling us when we can listen to a podcast. We don’t need commissars Gabriel and Meyer fixing the grammar in our posts. I’ve learned from this podcast that we can do it all overselves. Wolverines!

    OK, I have not actually listened to the new podcast yet but I assume I will believe all these things after I do. Pretty soon the sponsors will come and we’ll get to hear all about how Terry loves his Casper mattress so much he brings it along when he travels and how Ryan only cut himself three times with his Harry’s razor

    oh, my lord. Those guys get free samples! I am in it for the mattress. I already buy harry’s razors (because I support Ricochet, guys), but oh, to sleep on the best just to talk about how great it is? Count me in. I think we need to reach a somewhat broader audience first, though.

    As for your other comments, you are totally right. Or I’m sure you will think so after you listen. Unless you’re a cyclist.

    • #5
    • May 14, 2015, at 3:48 PM PDT
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  6. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    Maybe they’ll let me listen during spinal tap. On the grounds you’re natural tranquilizers? ;-)

    • #6
    • May 14, 2015, at 5:19 PM PDT
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  7. Jon Gabriel, Ed. King

    Thanks so much for inviting me on!

    • #7
    • May 14, 2015, at 5:25 PM PDT
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  8. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Jon Gabriel, Ed.:Thanks so much for inviting me on!

    We loved having you. Terry texted me immediately afterword with “Jon is such a great guest!” Next time we’ll keep you longer.

    • #8
    • May 14, 2015, at 5:39 PM PDT
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  9. Tom Meyer, Common Citizen Contributor

    You bring up three separate issues: 1) the entitled “rules-don’t-apply-to-me-me” attitude a lot of cyclists adopt and 2) whether bicycle lanes should be tax-payer funded and 3) whether cyclists should have to contribute to the costs of road maintenance.

    On #1, I agree that there’s a great deal of idiot behavior from cyclists and that it’s both polite and in a cyclists’ own interest to treat himself as a second-class citizen on the roads (in any car vs bike fight, the car wins). I use hand signals when turning and obey traffic signals.

    On #2, I’ll admit I’m really not a fan of designated bike lanes, on the simple grounds that they very rarely work as advertised: around here, their often placed between parallel parking and the car lanes, which is actually extremely dangerous (I’ve very nearly run into someone’s car door).

    Combining this with #3, the better solution for everyone, I think, is better general traffic design — especially at intersections — with wide shoulders wherever possible; this benefits everyone. Half the problems I encounter when cycling are ultimately caused by roads and intersections that are poorly designed period and whose problems are only exasperated by adding bikes to the mix.

    • #9
    • May 15, 2015, at 6:43 AM PDT
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  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    This entire podcast consists of one extended microaggression.

    Loved it.

    • #10
    • May 15, 2015, at 7:24 AM PDT
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  11. Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    Let me start by saying that I am and have been an avid cyclist throughout most of my life. I have also driven cars and trucks since I was 18, more than 50 years. To speak of cyclists’ “idiot behavior” is somewhat disingenuous. Prior to my retirement for a period of nearly 20 years I commuted from my home, 40+ miles south of Seattle into Seattle where I worked. I drove approximately 400 miles a week. During those commutes I witnessed incredible stupidity demonstrated by drivers who seemed obvious both to safety and the law. What you are describing is not the behavior of cyclists, but rather of human beings.

    Now-a-days, in retirement, I ride about 4000 miles a year, mostly on country roads. By and large drivers are considerate and respectful of the fact that I am riding a 15 pound $10,000 bicycle and should be granted a reasonable amount of space when they pass me. A few morons, likely related to the moron cyclists who don’t follow the rules of the road, do occasionally put me at some risk on occasion, but I have been lucky over the years and with more than 100K miles of cycling, have never suffered an accident.

    I own two motor vehicles, pay all relevant taxes, and feel that it is my own choice as to which vehicle, motor or man-powered, I choose to use on the roads.

    continued below

    • #11
    • May 15, 2015, at 8:45 AM PDT
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  12. Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    When I lived in Seattle I rode as many as 250 miles a week. These were training rides, not commutes. There were in those days fewer cars on the road, but I still occasionally had a driver make a left turn in front of me as I approached at 25 MPH. That speed may not sound fast to a driver of a car, but on bicycle, dressed in lycra with a styrofoam helmet, coming to a sudden stop at that speed can be extremely dangerous.

    Nobody owns the road or the right to force another vehicle off of the road. All I ask of drivers is that they use the same sense when passing me as they would in passing another car. In other words, don’t see if you can knock me off my bike with your mirror as you go by.

    The harping and uninformed garbage that I hear so often on talk radio and other conservative-oriented sites tends to assume that all cyclists are left-wing hippies, unworthy of consideration. I don’t know too many who fit that description who can afford a modern racing bike and the accoutrement that go with it. My advice, don’t go running someone off the road just because you think they are of a different political stripe than you are based on their vehicle. Demonstrate intelligence and respect and it might be returned in kind.

    • #12
    • May 15, 2015, at 8:55 AM PDT
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  13. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Brief response to eugine since I’m on my phone right now.

    1) we’re being somewhat facetious.
    2) I am not saying that cyclists should pay taxes for road repair. I’m talking about places where they have special lanes or paths. They should pay for those. And they should require licenses that can be revoked for disregarding traffic laws, just like real drivers.
    3) yes, people drive unsafely… Even in cars. But the bike itself is unsafe. If someone makes a mistake in a car, people often walk away. Of anyone hits your bike, you’re dead. I almost feel the same way about motorcycles, except that they are at least capable of traveling at reasonable speeds.
    4) in a lot of places, it is illegal to drive your car as slow as the fastest cyclist rides his bike. There is a reason for that.

    • #13
    • May 15, 2015, at 10:51 AM PDT
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  14. Eugene Kriegsmann Member

    There are also laws that forbid cyclists from riding in places where minimum speed limits are above what a bike can maintain.

    I do understand the frustration, but the arrogance of cyclists is no worse than the arrogance of drivers who think that the minute of so that they lose on their way to wherever it is that they are going is more important than the life or safety of someone on a bike.

    Personally, I don’t like bike lanes since they are often abused by drivers who park in them, they are generally too narrow to be safe for one bike to pass another and stay within the lines, and the generally cause traffic problems.

    The idea of licensing cyclists is absurd. Just as with cars, large numbers would ride unlicensed, and, as with guns, only those who obey the laws would be likely to get licenses.

    Cyclists are no more a unified group than are drivers. Take them as individuals and judge their actions and behaviors as individuals. Blanket statements like the ones you made, though protected by freedom of speech, are pretty poor judgment when you don’t know who is listening.

    • #14
    • May 15, 2015, at 11:29 AM PDT
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  15. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Eugene Kriegsmann:Cyclists are no more a unified group than are drivers. Take them as individuals and judge their actions and behaviors as individuals. Blanket statements like the ones you made, though protected by freedom of speech, are pretty poor judgment when you don’t know who is listening.

    :) Well… I knew there would be some cyclists listening, but do bank somewhat on their catching that our tone is not too terribly serious. I’m speaking tongue-in-cheek, but also referencing actually obnoxious phenomenon. No, I don’t actually think that we could require licenses for bikers – I think that is funny, though, because cyclists are often liberals (in places like Seattle) who are all in favor of taxation and regulation, but if I seriously suggested that, I think entitlement would trump their knee-jerk support for over-regulation. Then again, I would probably make laws that disallow cyclists in high-traffic areas, especially when they cannot maintain a minimum speed, and I would not support taxation of everyone to put those bike lanes and bike paths all over the place.

    As for safety, yes, I totally understand. We’ve complained about bad drivers plenty on the podcast! But here is the difference – as I said, if you’re driving a car and you get clipped, that’s probably going to cost you money. If you’re riding a bike, you’re dead. What exactly is the difference between that and, say, a runner who is capable of going as fast as a bike generally travels? It is so ridiculously unsafe I find it to be somewhat unfair to the drivers who would be responsible for killing you. In traffic, I think that is a valid concern. I am all in favor of bikes on rural and largely empty suburban streets. I ride my own bike plenty.

    • #15
    • May 15, 2015, at 12:12 PM PDT
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  16. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    p.s. perhaps we’ve opened up the door for someone to draft a post all about why I’m wrong on the issue of cyclists. That is, in my opinion, the single most fantastic thing about Ricochet. There is always room for more conversation, and there are always people who are willing to offer different perspectives!

    • #16
    • May 15, 2015, at 12:14 PM PDT
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  17. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Regular urban cyclist here.

    I don’t signal because I don’t expect people to know the signals, and I like to keep both hands on the bars. Usually I can make my direction obvious at a stop light. I generally ride on the street unless it is central downtown and there is no bike lane. About the biggest violation of the law I have done is rolling stops. I had some thug slow down traffic to scream profanity and try to ram me into a concrete wall with his car when I was following the law precisely.

    Something to consider about biking – a lot of people who bicycle cannot afford a car. Also, bicycling is open to kids before they can own a car. It may shock some people, but not everyone who can drive owns a car. I bike to and from work, as well as using a bike to get around at my job. The biking population is likely to be a poor source of tax revenue.

    I’d also take complaints about bicyclists more seriously if you considered pedestrians as well. The amount of people leisurely jaywalking on busy streets is shocking, and pedestrians jumping out in front of traffic is a problem even for cyclists.

    • #17
    • May 15, 2015, at 12:44 PM PDT
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  18. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    OmegaPaladin:I’d also take complaints about bicyclists more seriously if you considered pedestrians as well. The amount of people leisurely jaywalking on busy streets is shocking, and pedestrians jumping out in front of traffic is a problem even for cyclists.

    Yes, I agree. Pedestrians can be just as bad for many of the same reasons. Terry actually mentions this on the podcast.

    Yelling at anyone as you mention in your comment is classless. Even a bike who is being dangerous or breaking the law, and even another car that has just done something to legitimately annoy you. Also on this podcast, we’ve mentioned road rage in general.

    See my comment above regarding taxes. I didn’t offer that as a serious proposal, but I do think it would drive the left nuts, which I find amusing. As to your point about kids being able to ride bikes, I don’t find that persuasive. There are a lot of things we could do to benefit teenagers as a class. This does not justify the massive expenditures in expanding roads or installing new ones, and I do not think it really justifies the safety threat that is put on other drivers in the form of slow-moving, unprotected vehicles in heavy traffic.

    • #18
    • May 15, 2015, at 1:55 PM PDT
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  19. Flizzo Stizzo Member

    On the topic of real-world consequences for free speech, I remember how the Dixie Chicks trashed W in London and then got mad when their fans lambasted them and destroyed their CDs. Of course the Chicks had a right to say what they did, but no one was surprised at the consequence (except maybe them).

    Concerning the cyclist issue, the other day I realized halfway through driving through a bike lane to get into the right turn lane that I neglected to check it. Gave myself a metaphorical heart attack imagining if someone had been coming. Just like anything new(ish) that people aren’t used to, it’s not hard to see how accidents are waiting to happen.

    • #19
    • May 15, 2015, at 7:56 PM PDT
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  20. Salvatore Padula Inactive

    My proposal was based on an idea I first heard from Bernard Lewis. He stated that one of the reasons for the decline of the Islamic world relative to the West was the difference between the relationship to wealth and politics in the two societies. His characterization of that difference is that the western practice was traditionally that people would use wealth they had accumulated in other fields as a means of obtaining prominence in politics while in the Islamic world the process was reversed, with politics being used as a vehicle for amassing wealth. His point was that, while there isn’t much moral difference between the two approaches, the western approach is less deleterious to the health of a polity.

    • #20
    • May 16, 2015, at 7:36 PM PDT
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  21. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    Interesting. I had never heard that but it certainly makes sense.

    • #21
    • May 16, 2015, at 9:00 PM PDT
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  22. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Ryan M:

    See my comment above regarding taxes. I didn’t offer that as a serious proposal, but I do think it would drive the left nuts, which I find amusing. As to your point about kids being able to ride bikes, I don’t find that persuasive. There are a lot of things we could do to benefit teenagers as a class. This does not justify the massive expenditures in expanding roads or installing new ones, and I do not think it really justifies the safety threat that is put on other drivers in the form of slow-moving, unprotected vehicles in heavy traffic.

    Well, my problem is more with the concept of “yuppy liberals are the core of bicyclists” A car is not an option for quite a few people – if you live in the suburbs or a rural area, that shock you, but city living inherently makes using a car tough. The fact that the cost of living is ridiculous doesn’t help.

    The biggest problem with bike lanes is that people is that they reduce the traffic area, but shoulders do that as well. I don’t mind riding on the shoulder, as long as it is in reasonably good condition.

    • #22
    • May 18, 2015, at 11:08 AM PDT
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  23. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    OmegaPaladin:

    Ryan M:

    See my comment above regarding taxes. I didn’t offer that as a serious proposal, but I do think it would drive the left nuts, which I find amusing. As to your point about kids being able to ride bikes, I don’t find that persuasive. There are a lot of things we could do to benefit teenagers as a class. This does not justify the massive expenditures in expanding roads or installing new ones, and I do not think it really justifies the safety threat that is put on other drivers in the form of slow-moving, unprotected vehicles in heavy traffic.

    Well, my problem is more with the concept of “yuppy liberals are the core of bicyclists” A car is not an option for quite a few people – if you live in the suburbs or a rural area, that shock you, but city living inherently makes using a car tough. The fact that the cost of living is ridiculous doesn’t help.

    The biggest problem with bike lanes is that people is that they reduce the traffic area, but shoulders do that as well. I don’t mind riding on the shoulder, as long as it is in reasonably good condition.

    When I was a kid, my dad used to ride his bike to work (we lived in Denver); he certainly fell in the economic class of bike riders. I do acknowledge that those exist, but I think that “yuppy liberal” contingent is still a majority. Even so, there are plenty of people who have to walk or take busses – even others who simply cannot afford city living. While I can sympathize with these things, I don’t think such a massive safety threat is a great solution. And I wouldn’t support legislation designed to protect drivers in the case of accidents, because obviously you still do get some horrible drivers who should not be shielded. I’m inclined to simply say “too bad” when a person legitimately falls in that category of not being able to afford any car but still having to live in the city… I think it’s a pretty small category, though, right?

    • #23
    • May 18, 2015, at 12:02 PM PDT
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  24. Hammer, The Member
    Hammer, The

    @ Omega:

    You’re right, though, that my podcast rant (still somewhat tongue-in-cheek) was directed pretty much exclusively at the Seattle-liberal-type cyclists. The fact that I’m lumping everyone into that category is certainly one of the major holes in that particular rant. When I call them stupid, I am 100% talking about the “save-the-planet,” or self-righteous “exercise on my way to work however inconvenient it might be to everyone else around me” sorts of people. Anyone on Ricochet is likely exempt from that crowd by definition…

    • #24
    • May 18, 2015, at 12:11 PM PDT
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  25. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Ryan M:@ Omega:

    You’re right, though, that my podcast rant (still somewhat tongue-in-cheek) was directed pretty much exclusively at the Seattle-liberal-type cyclists. The fact that I’m lumping everyone into that category is certainly one of the major holes in that particular rant. When I call them stupid, I am 100% talking about the “save-the-planet,” or self-righteous “exercise on my way to work however inconvenient it might be to everyone else around me” sorts of people. Anyone on Ricochet is likely exempt from that crowd by definition…

    Ironically, the reason I bicycle to work is exercise, and my work supposedly involves saving the planet (but most involves mold, recycling, and keeping regulators happy) Point taken, though – Chicago recently went for bike-sharing stations as part of their transit scheme. Anyone who has bicycled in a Chicago winter could tell you the problem there.

    • #25
    • May 18, 2015, at 1:22 PM PDT
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  26. Midget Faded Rattlesnake Contributor

    OmegaPaladin:

    Ironically, the reason I bicycle to work is exercise…

    I am way too distractible and scatterbrained for city biking. If a competent, alert cyclist still poses a hazard, I hate to think what motorists would think of me! Frankly, I’d deserve to be squashed.

    But if I weren’t so absentminded, I’d be attracted to bicycle transportation for the same reason. Basically, I hate to exercise for its own sake, so exercise that manages to accomplish some other goal (getting from point A to point B, or at least getting to see some pretty sights) is particularly enticing.

    • #26
    • May 18, 2015, at 1:34 PM PDT
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  27. OmegaPaladin Moderator

    Midget Faded Rattlesnake:

    OmegaPaladin:

    Ironically, the reason I bicycle to work is exercise…

    I am way too distractible and scatterbrained for city biking. If a competent, alert cyclist still poses a hazard, I hate to think what motorists would think of me! Frankly, I’d deserve to be squashed.

    But if I weren’t so absentminded, I’d be attracted to bicycle transportation for the same reason. Basically, I hate to exercise for its own sake, so exercise that manages to accomplish some other goal (getting from point A to point B, or at least getting to see some pretty sights) is particularly enticing.

    I am the same way on exercise – I need to have some purpose to it. It’s the same reason I help my landlord with minor yardwork. Also, riding to the train keeps me pedaling.

    • #27
    • May 19, 2015, at 8:35 AM PDT
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