Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 50 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
How Euthanasia Changed Holland
The Institute of Marriage and Family Canada published a review of a very interesting new book on how Dutch society is changing since the legalization of human euthanasia. An excerpt:
Gerbert Van Loenen, a Dutch journalist, once saw Holland’s legalization of euthanasia as one of that country’s crowning achievements. This started to change when a friend insisted that Van Loenen’s partner Niek would have been better off dead than living with a brain injury. Another acquaintance said to Neik over dinner at their house, “You chose to go on living so you have no right to whine.”These experiences led Van Loenen to wonder. Where did this attitude come from? How did it become so widely accepted that people living with disability or illness are better off dead? Is the legalization of euthanasia in the Netherlands part of the cause?
Thoughts?
This is uncomfortably close to the desire to rid society of “undesirables” which was a central tenet of Nazism.
However bad the other consequences of Holland’s euthanasia laws might be, there ought to be many conservatives willing to agree that “you have no right to whine” is the message a culture ought to send to its citizens.
We are headed for mass forced euthanasia by the end of the century. Joy.
The Netherlands is a country of less than 17 million people, on a planet of over 7 billion people. I’m not sure I’m ready to declare the Dutch experience a bellwether for the future just yet. History might just as easily record that it served as a cautionary example.
I doubt that. The US ( yes I know you’re in the great white north) likes to make its own errors and rather spectacularly.
I’ve had a post mulling in my headed about future medicine where seniors fear the doctor because it’s straight to the soylent green van if things are getting pricey.
This is uncomfortably close to the desire to rid society of “undesirables” which was a central tenet of Nazism.
And the eugenics movement within Anglo/American Progressivism a la Margaret Sanger.
You do have the right to whine. What you do not have is the right to expect and force everybody else in the world to reorder their lives to accommodate what you are whining about.
Can you expand on this comment, Midge?
OK, technically we all do have the right to whine – as part of freedom of speech. That said, informing colleagues and family members that “you have no right to whine,” is also part of the conservative temperament.
The strain within conservatism worried about whether modern folks are “too soft”, that longs for the days when people knew how to shut up and endure their lot in life, ought to approve of cultural shifts that heap scorn on the whiners. That is all.
Ask the parents of Down Syndrome children what kind of reaction they get from time to time from “compassionate” liberals.
When you take a word like “life” and you start putting qualifiers in front of it, like “quality of,” then the assumption becomes that all human existence is not equal.
If anyone is “too soft,” it’s me. You manage to endure with grace.
“Death with Dignity” folks have railroaded friends of mine into suicide. Oregon does this a lot now.
That’s terrible, iWe. So sorry for that.
It would seem to me that it isn’t really whining to complain about your actual physical disabilities.
The first amendment gives us the right to whine all we want. I support that.
Agree with everyone! Mis, this sends chills up my spine; hoping there’ll be safe, accessible spaces – and truly compassionate people – handy at some point for all of us ‘unnaturals’ [h/t Midge for the evocative descriptor] ’round about.
DocJay:
I’ve had a post mulling in my headed about future medicine where seniors fear the doctor because it’s straight to the soylent green van if things are getting pricey.
You are right about this fear. A chest x-ray came back “Severe pulmonary hyperexpansion” and my PCP of 10 years states there is nothing to be done because of COPD. I’ve been researching, and there are things to make you more comfortable and to breathe easier. Plus the pressure from the lungs can create heart problems. But, I am stuck in a new medical program, BC/BS Medicare Advantage. So I will pay out of pocket, and I made an appointment with a board certified pulmonary specialist, bu he wants me to come with a recent CT scan. I’ve waited 2 days for my PCP to call to order a CT. I reminded the Dr.’s office I had a major heart attack at age 33 and it doesn’t need the lung pressure. My appt. with specialist is on May 1st.
The Dr.s office did call in the CT scan for next Monday at 5:45 p.m.
On this, Kay!
Thank you love.
How much of this “no right to whine” is coming from the euthanasia and how much of it is just because the people in question are Dutch?
OK, I’m going to be the skunk in the garden party.
Having health insurance or government paying for most medical expenses has divorced people’s expectations from financial reality. Even conservatives seem to think that no expense should be spared to keep people alive until the last possible day. I know it sounds heartless, but I think a number of factors should be taken into account when the end seems to be near. If someone is diagnosed with cancer in their 30’s, and their diagnosis is that they have a very good chance of survival with treatment, good. If someone is in their 70’s and they’ve got a cancer that kills 85% of it’s victims even with treatment, I think it’s a rational choice for the patient to decline the treatment. And if someone decides to take their own life on their own timetable, rather than dieing in slow motion, they’ve got my blessing.
We can’t be taken seriously as the people who want to balance the budget, and also demand that government spend whatever is necessary to keep grandma alive for an additional 6 months.
If I’m diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, I’m outta here. I absolutely refuse to have my children and grandchildren watch my brain deteriorate, as I die in bits and pieces. They have all been told. There won’t be any extra grieving. None of them want to see me the way my mother was.
I will make my own determinations regarding any other disease.
But Kay, are you willing/able to pay out of pocket? I think that is what Randy means.
I’ve been paying out of pocket, the insurance I pay for doesn’t cover any of my meds. I refuse to swallow the stuff the insurance formulary say is a good substitute. The PCP doctor, has to call me to come in for an appt. Even when I’m not sick. It’s required, so I go in talk to the doc for 5 minutes pay my deductible, and leave. But now that I have a problem, the doc doesn’t really want to see me, so I will pay for a specialist out of the system, out of pocket, to see what can be done to help COPD.
Plenty of treatments delay the progression of COPD. Vicryl Contessa and I will do a podcast soon enough and we’re happy to take topics from the crew. Get your consult and have the recommendations noted. Bring it to your PCP. Good luck.
Randy, I don’t disagree; I am a “slow code/no code”. What I fear is someone ‘punching my ticket’ on some ideological whim…I’m not about to slap some poor soul with a”wrongful birth” suit, believe me…And, there’s this, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
2289 If morality requires respect for the life of the body, it does not make it an absolute value. It rejects a neo-pagan notion that tends to promote the cult of the body, to sacrifice everything for its sake, to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception can lead to the perversion of human relationships. (364, 2113)
It’s not just the Netherlands. Belgium also has a healthy increase in the number of people killed by doctors on purpose. What we used to call medicine may not make as much sense in another generation. I’ve seen a number of Belgians–lovely people, lovely country, & I’m not at all surprised many might decide to round their lives with a little sleep. I kind of see their point, although it strikes me as ridiculous. If I am right, things are better when nobody asks these peoples for what do they live. They do not need the kind of encouragement these death laws create. The strangely American holding on to dear life is not the way of the world.
I think this is the reverse of the death penalty. Americans manage to still execute someone now & then, although nobody really seems to understand why or like it–& the process is terrible. But not these countries with medical killing. The death penalty would be unthinkable there, politically.
There’s good evidence (only in rats so far) that this suppliment can prevent and even reverse the brain plaque buildup that seems to cause a lot of dementia.
This study showed some health benefits in humans; human trials for Alzheimer’s are ongoing.
I thought we were talking about people suggesting other people kill themselves if they are in pain, not kill themselves because the government is paying too much to keep them alive.