An Appeal to Older People From a Millennial

 

shutterstock_177669056I recently had a discussion with an older cousin of mine in his 50s. He was telling me he would like to see the welfare state gone, deregulation, smaller government, and all the other standard stuff Conservatives want for the future. Then he was telling me how my generation is footing the bill and tough luck for you guys. Live with it while I benefit because you guys didn’t vote the other way in very large numbers. I have heard this same line of argument or reasoning multiple times before. And I explained to him that this position towards millennials as on the hook for paying for the Boomers’ and Gen-Xers’ tab is immoral.

First off, Social Security and Medicare are the biggest welfare programs in the country. People get mad when I say it, but it is true. It was sold to the country as a government-run savings account, but that isn’t the case. People generally take out more than they put in and these programs are bankrupting the nation. Medicare alone will rise from about $615 billion at present, to a little over $1 trillion in just the next seven years. The rise in costs is far beyond anything that was put into it. This is welfare, pure and simple. It is robbing the young and their future to pay for the old. It is robbing the future of this country. That is what is happening. To complain about Uncle Sam stealing or taxing all the time while cashing these checks and enjoying medicare is hypocrisy to the 10th power.

Yes, you got fleeced. The government forcibly took money out of your paychecks for decades to fund unsustainable programs that are robbing the future of this country you hold dear, and the futures of your kids and grandkids, whom I also hope you hold just as dear. You lost that money and what was done to you is unjust. But to then turn around and fleece your progeny because you got robbed does not make it right. It makes things even more unjust and puts in jeopardy the economic well being of your progeny and this nation. I am 26 years old. These programs will not exist at all when I am old enough to be done working or can work no longer. But if I had the choice right now or in the foreseeable future, I would tell the government to keep the money they robbed from me, as I will not jeopardize or steal my descendants’ future. Many conservatives have bought into the idea that we should just accept the New Deal and Great Society as already here. I reject that, totally. The New Deal and Great Society have given us decades of nothing but highway robbery and phony promises. As I reminded my cousin, Millennials didn’t invent Social Security or Medicare, and we have nothing to do with — or to gain from — these programs that will soon break our country.

This is the evil of statism. This is the evil of collectivism. The statists create conflict and animosity between poor and rich, male and female, black and white, young and old, etc., etc. This is what happens when self-reliance is done away with and you force one generation to sacrifice their well being for that of another. To say — as my cousin essentially did — “Enjoy your future, Millennials!” is nihilistic and destructive. It isn’t Conservative. Fighting for the next tax break or reduction in corporate taxes, deregulation, or any other financial matter is a pittance compared to what ending these programs means.

So please, do everything to end your dependence on these programs. Do everything you can to shut the door on them permanently, even if it means you lose money. The future of this nation and your descendants will greatly benefit from it. It means you didn’t force your grandchildren and great-grandchildren to sacrifice their well-being long after you’re in the ground. If conservatives really stand for self-reliance and individualism, they need to stand against intergenerational redistribution and collectivism.

I have heard too many conservatives argue along the same nonsensical and nihilistic lines as my cousin did in defending these programs. That is unworthy of anyone who claims to hold the values of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

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  1. user_352043 Moderator
    user_352043
    @AmySchley

    Amen.

    • #1
  2. V.S. Blackford Inactive
    V.S. Blackford
    @VSBlackford

    My husband and I both fall into the millennial generation, and our viewpoint is that we are not going to get social security or medicare, so we are preparing now with our own savings and retirement accounts.  We also have three children, who hopefully will still love us enough in 50 years or so to let us live with them (I kid, of course).  That is the great part about the conservative and libertarian philosophies, where we should depend on ourselves and our families first as opposed to the government.  However, our parents are just about that age to receive benefits in the next few years, and we are not going to begrudge them that.  As it is, whenever politicians propose reforms to the programs they always start with age 50 and under to be affected by the changes.  We will have to see if the government decides to go after savings (Roth IRAs, etc).  I think they would get the same reaction as whenever they try to reform social security.  The White House dropped the plan to tax 529 college savings accounts because of the outcry, so we shall see how they plan to pay for social security and medicare in the long term.

    What it would take is a political party who believes enough in the reform to take the political hit in the short term to actually go after the programs.  Kind of like the Democrats enacting health care reform and then completely wiping out the up-and-coming political generation of their party in the 2010 and 2014 elections.

    • #2
  3. user_91214 Member
    user_91214
    @ChrisGregerson

    I just got on Medicare and I am P’ed-off I must do it. I do sell Health Insurance and know that Medicare has cleaned out any products for my age group except supplemental insurance. I’d happily buy major medical health insurance if I could.

    As for social security, I asked, about 2 years ago, that my representative move to stop social security payments to me with the deal that I won’t whine if they stop taking the funds from my check. No reply from that request.

    I clearly understand the magnitude of those two programs, especially when compared to UNNEEDED tax cuts. I say unneeded as the rates today are half of what they were under President Reagan and the national debt is a gazillion times higher (may want to double check that ratio). We need to be paying taxes for the goodies we had the gov’t buy. Then we need to get active at the ballet box to prevent future governments from doing it all over again.

    Well, got to stop, have to get back to one of my two jobs, ‘cause retirement comes with a trip to the morgue. 

    • #3
  4. Mario the Gator Inactive
    Mario the Gator
    @Pelayo

    I am Gen-Xer and I wonder if Social Security and Medicare will even survive long enough for me to “cash in” when I retire.  Anyone who doubts where this is going just needs to study what is happening in Greece, Spain and other examples in Europe.  I have been investing in a 401k for years because I do not trust Big Brother to meet my needs in retirement.

    Realistically speaking, I don’t see how any politician could simply shut down the entitlement programs. Even if every Conservative decided to support such a move for the good of our Country and our children, there are too many Liberals who would go ballistic and I think it would be destabilize our Government.  The only approach I can envision being successful is a move to slowly reduce the benefits (or cap them at current levels) and make it clear to Americans that if they do not save for retirement they should not expect to have a comfortable standard of living.  I am sure some will ignore the advice and we will end up with slums inhabited by retirees, but so be it.  We are all adults.

    In exchange for my willingness to rely less on welfare, I expect Millenials to begin voting for Conservative candidates in elections, instead of Marxist Democrats.  Do we have a deal?

    • #4
  5. user_1066 Inactive
    user_1066
    @MorituriTe

    I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    • #5
  6. user_86050 Inactive
    user_86050
    @KCMulville

    Well, hold on. I’m 54. I’ve been arguing for reform of these programs for many years. We’ve known about demographic Armageddon for decades.

    The effort has failed because Democrats support these programs just the way they are. And a chief constituency of Democrats is … Millennials. No politician can dare argue for reform of these entitlements because he will immediately be branded … by Democrats … as reneging on the “promises made.” Even the Bush era recommendation to turn these funds into non-governmental investments was portrayed as pushing granny off the cliff.

    You want reform of these entitlements? Stop voting for Democrats, as Millennials overwhelmingly do.

    • #6
  7. user_259843 Inactive
    user_259843
    @JefferyShepherd

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    Unfortunately, the ass end of the baby boomer generation is still in charge (for COC purposes I’m a Nov ’63) backed by delusional X, Y, Z and whatevers.

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    Concur, but isn’t the ass end of the baby boomer generation  still in charge with full on support from the delusional gen X, Y, Z? I’m a Nov ’63 person and I think I’m lumped in with the boomers but I don’t feel boomer.

    • #7
  8. Lucy Pevensie Inactive
    Lucy Pevensie
    @LucyPevensie

    I would love to know the precise statistics on social security: how many people get a tiny return or a negative return on investment vs. those who “take out more than they put in.”  I know for a fact that my father could never possibly get out what he has put in, and that those people who are exempt from SS because of specific employers can generally do much better by saving and investing the money than if they had joined SS.

    • #8
  9. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    My generation doesn’t run the country. We aren’t in political power in Congress or in the governorships and never have been. We don’t run the schools. And when the baby boomers brought the new left into the schools in the 60s what did you think was going to happen? Why do you think my generation votes the way it does? The left dominates education. I remember being filled with global warming hysterics and environmentalist crap, as well as multiculturalist jive from middle school onward. Then college is a bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This is what happens when the right abandoned education.

    And Social Security isn’t going broke because everyone is paying way more than they take out. It is broke for the opposite reason. Some do pay in more than they take. And this just speaks to the fundamental injustice of the system. The government forcibly robs people to give in money they will never see again or people take money they have no right to that was taken from others. Hardly anyone leaves the system with equal to what they put in. The whole thing is a sham. It amazes that such a crap system has survived these 80 years.

    • #9
  10. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    KC Mulville:Well, hold on. I’m 54. I’ve been arguing for reform of these programs for many years. We’ve known about demographic Armageddon for decades.

    The effort has failed because Democrats support these programs just the way they are. And a chief constituency of Democrats is … Millennials. No politician can dare argue for reform of these entitlements because he will immediately be branded … by Democrats … as reneging on the “promises made.” Even the Bush era recommendation to turn these funds into non-governmental investments was portrayed as pushing granny off the cliff.

    You want reform of these entitlements? Stop voting for Democrats, as Millennials overwhelmingly do.

    Republicans don’t have the will to reform or even end these programs. What did they do with all of this stuff the many times they have controlled Washington? The last time the Republicans were in charge of Congress and the Presidency they passed a trillion dollar prescription bill for seniors. They didn’t reform or cut anything. They also ran up the debt and had the largest deficits in history up until that point. Listen to how Republicans speak about how they want to save medicare and save social security. Don’t save them! Get rid of them! They are a burden and a disgrace. The very idea that someone should have money forced out of their wallet because they can’t save for their own future or medical needs flies in the face of freedom and individualism.

    • #10
  11. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Pelayo:I am Gen-Xer and I wonder if Social Security and Medicare will even survive long enough for me to “cash in” when I retire. Anyone who doubts where this is going just needs to study what is happening in Greece, Spain and other examples in Europe. I have been investing in a 401k for years because I do not trust Big Brother to meet my needs in retirement.

    Realistically speaking, I don’t see how any politician could simply shut down the entitlement programs. Even if every Conservative decided to support such a move for the good of our Country and our children, there are too many Liberals who would go ballistic and I think it would be destabilize our Government. The only approach I can envision being successful is a move to slowly reduce the benefits (or cap them at current levels) and make it clear to Americans that if they do not save for retirement they should not expect to have a comfortable standard of living. I am sure some will ignore the advice and we will end up with slums inhabited by retirees, but so be it. We are all adults.

    In exchange for my willingness to rely less on welfare, I expect Millenials to begin voting for Conservative candidates in elections, instead of Marxist Democrats. Do we have a deal?

    I agree with your phase it out approach. And I don’t speak for millennials. I don’t know what they will do in the future. All I can say is I speak as a Conservative that if you are going to fight for Constitutionally limited government, don’t turn around and say I’m getting mine jack, and bankrupt the country you claim to love in the process no matter what others do or don’t do. These are the biggest drivers of government debt. It should not be a problem to fiscal Conservatives to both fight against and do without these programs as much as possible.

    • #11
  12. V.S. Blackford Inactive
    V.S. Blackford
    @VSBlackford

    TheChuckSteak:

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    My generation doesn’t run the country. We aren’t in political power in Congress or in the governorships and never have been. We don’t run the schools. And when the baby boomers brought the new left into the schools in the 60s what did you think was going to happen? Why do you think my generation votes the way it does? The left dominates education. I remember being filled with global warming hysterics and environmentalist crap, as well as multiculturalist jive from middle school onward. Then college is a bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This is what happens when the right abandoned education.

    And Social Security isn’t going broke because everyone is paying way more than they take out. It is broke for the opposite reason. Some do pay in more than they take. And this just speaks to the fundamental injustice of the system. The government forcibly robs people to give in money they will never see again or people take money they have no right to that was taken from others. Hardly anyone leaves the system with equal to what they put in. The whole thing is a sham. It amazes that such a crap system has survived these 80 years.

    We may not run the country, but we have had voting rights since we were 18, and we saw fit to vote in overwhelming numbers for the Democratic ticket in 2008 and 2012.  I think we may be better served by speaking to members of our own generation as opposed to trying to get people who have paid social security taxes their whole lives to come to our aid.

    • #12
  13. user_517406 Inactive
    user_517406
    @MerinaSmith

    TCS, if your generation is not in charge now because you are too young, Boomers were not in charge in the 60s when most were children, and were not in charge for many years after that.  It’s ridiculous to put all this on one generation that did not start it.  Boomers bear some responsibility but it is a cross-generational problem.  I agree that it has to end, but it cannot just be cut out with no provision for the poorest Boomers, who relied on the system and still rely on what was promised. Wealthier Boomers (that includes my husband and me) will have to sacrifice and are willing to do so, but the system will  have to be revised in a way that protects poorer Boomers.

    And please can we end the Boomer bashing?  Virtually every article I read about this by younger people has no perspective on where this all started, how all generations have been part of the problem and how it can be humanely ended.

    • #13
  14. user_989419 Inactive
    user_989419
    @ProbableCause

    TheChuckSteak:
    Live with it while I benefit because you guys didn’t vote the other way in very large numbers.

    So please, do everything to end your dependence on these programs. Do everything you can to shut the door on them permanently, even if it means you lose money.

    Sooooooo, you want us older voters to reform the system, in your interest, while you millennials continue to vote for Hope ‘n’ Change, because gay marriage or whatever.

    Yeah, I’ll get right on that.

    • #14
  15. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    V.S. Blackford:

    TheChuckSteak:

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    My generation doesn’t run the country. We aren’t in political power in Congress or in the governorships and never have been. We don’t run the schools. And when the baby boomers brought the new left into the schools in the 60s what did you think was going to happen? Why do you think my generation votes the way it does? The left dominates education. I remember being filled with global warming hysterics and environmentalist crap, as well as multiculturalist jive from middle school onward. Then college is a bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This is what happens when the right abandoned education.

    And Social Security isn’t going broke because everyone is paying way more than they take out. It is broke for the opposite reason. Some do pay in more than they take. And this just speaks to the fundamental injustice of the system. The government forcibly robs people to give in money they will never see again or people take money they have no right to that was taken from others. Hardly anyone leaves the system with equal to what they put in. The whole thing is a sham. It amazes that such a crap system has survived these 80 years.

    We may not run the country, but we have had voting rights since we were 18, and we saw fit to vote in overwhelming numbers for the Democratic ticket in 2008 and 2012. I think we may be better served by speaking to members of our own generation as opposed to trying to get people who have paid social security taxes their whole lives to come to our aid.

    Yeah we have voting rights since we were 18 and newsflash, Obama didn’t invent Social Security or Medicare. They were invented in the 30s and the 60s respectively. They have been and are runaway trains to wrecking the future of the country. And they were runaway trains when Bush was President and now that Obama is President. And because Millennials voted for him that justifies the train heading on its collision course and the people who collect and benefit from it while it is running to have no sense of responsibility to their kids and grand-kids? Smooth logic.

    • #15
  16. user_86050 Inactive
    user_86050
    @KCMulville

    TheChuckSteak:

    Republicans don’t have the will to reform or even end these programs. What did they do with all of this stuff the many times they have controlled Washington? The last time the Republicans were in charge of Congress and the Presidency they passed a trillion dollar prescription bill for seniors. They didn’t reform or cut anything. They also ran up the debt and had the largest deficits in history up until that point.

    Don’t confuse the Bush Administrations, or even Republicans, with conservatism. Different beasts.

    Listen to how Republicans speak about how they want to save medicare and save social security. Don’t save them! Get rid of them! They are a burden and a disgrace. The very idea that someone should have money forced out of their wallet because they can’t save for their own future or medical needs flies in the face of freedom and individualism.

    Then you’re going to explain how you’re going to deal with the same problem that prompted the programs in the first place. The mere fact that an older individual’s medical bills jump once they reach a certain age simultaneously means that the same individual either cannot get medical insurance on the open market or the cost becomes prohibitive. It isn’t a matter of merely prudently saving for the future; it’s a recognition that after a certain age, the costs skyrocket past any amount a person could reasonably save.

    The original reason why medicare was created was because the private insurance market couldn’t and wouldn’t handle it. At the very moment you need medical care the most, you become (for that same reason) a statistical liability, and insurers have near zero incentive to agree to subsidize those medical costs.

    Age is a pre-existing condition that only gets worse.

    I fully support reforms, and new ways of thinking about how to accomplish the task. But if you want to get rid of the system entirely, you’re not appreciating the inverse effects and inverse incentives that were the problem in the first place.

    • #16
  17. V.S. Blackford Inactive
    V.S. Blackford
    @VSBlackford

    TheChuckSteak:

    V.S. Blackford:

    TheChuckSteak:

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    My generation doesn’t run the country. We aren’t in political power in Congress or in the governorships and never have been. We don’t run the schools. And when the baby boomers brought the new left into the schools in the 60s what did you think was going to happen? Why do you think my generation votes the way it does? The left dominates education. I remember being filled with global warming hysterics and environmentalist crap, as well as multiculturalist jive from middle school onward. Then college is a bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This is what happens when the right abandoned education.

    And Social Security isn’t going broke because everyone is paying way more than they take out. It is broke for the opposite reason. Some do pay in more than they take. And this just speaks to the fundamental injustice of the system. The government forcibly robs people to give in money they will never see again or people take money they have no right to that was taken from others. Hardly anyone leaves the system with equal to what they put in. The whole thing is a sham. It amazes that such a crap system has survived these 80 years.

    We may not run the country, but we have had voting rights since we were 18, and we saw fit to vote in overwhelming numbers for the Democratic ticket in 2008 and 2012. I think we may be better served by speaking to members of our own generation as opposed to trying to get people who have paid social security taxes their whole lives to come to our aid.

    Yeah we have voting rights since we were 18 and newsflash, Obama didn’t invent Social Security or Medicare. They were invented in the 30s and the 60s respectively. They have been and are runaway trains to wrecking the future of the country. And they were runaway trains when Bush was President and now that Obama is President. And because Millennials voted for him that justifies the train heading on its collision course and the people who collect and benefit from it while it is running to have no sense of responsibility to their kids and grand-kids? Smooth logic.

    I thought that paying a membership fee would help keep the tone a bit more civil in here, but oh well.  My point is this: instead of placing all the blame on previous generations, try to make a change in your own.  The elections of 2008 and 2012 clearly demonstrate that our generation is not on the course for major social program reform.  Additionally, we millennials need to be careful when we place blame on previous generations because it can be argued that we are to blame for the Affordable Care Act because we helped elect Obama in 2008, 2012.

    • #17
  18. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Probable Cause:

    TheChuckSteak: Live with it while I benefit because you guys didn’t vote the other way in very large numbers.

    So please, do everything to end your dependence on these programs. Do everything you can to shut the door on them permanently, even if it means you lose money.

    Sooooooo, you want us older voters to reform the system, in your interest, while you millennials continue to vote for Hope ‘n’ Change, because gay marriage or whatever.

    Yeah, I’ll get right on that.

    No, in the country’s interest. If you aren’t interested in the future of the country or the futures of your kids and grand-kids then you are just a nihilist. There is no other way to look at it. You just want this baby to burn. There is no reason to be mad about Hope ‘n’ Change when you are cool with the country going bankrupt and kids that haven’t yet been born being enslaved to your bills. You should do the principled, virtuous, and right thing regardless of what other people do even if you are the only one doing it. Continuing to support these Ponzi Schemes because you are mad at Millennials for voting for Obama, when the Republican message is crap, is not justifiable in any sense or stands for American values in any sense. Just be honest about it. Maybe explaining to Millennials how they are getting burned and what you want to do about it might win some of them over. Or you can just continue insulting my generation and see if they vote for your positions.

    • #18
  19. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    V.S. Blackford:

    TheChuckSteak:

    V.S. Blackford:

    TheChuckSteak:

    Daniel Frank:I’m a boomer, and I planned my retirement never expecting to see a dollar from Social Security. But isn’t Medicare mandatory? Doesn’t my semi-independent, quasi-public-utility health insurer say “sayonara” when I hit Medicare eligibility? Aren’t seniors herded into this socialized medical monstrosity with no meaningful choice or alternative?

    I’ll be happy to vote, over and over and over, for a return to a reasonable, market-based solution to seniors’s medical needs, including my own. But you know what? I have voted over and over and over through the years here in the Banana Republic of California, and it hasn’t made a bit of difference, and part of the responsibility for that lies with the bad counter-votes of millennials. So what exactly would you like me to do?

    I’m willing to let my ox be gored for the good of future generations. I’m not happy with these programs, and never have been. But maybe your generation should stop being the Change We’ve Been Waiting For and get on with the job of fixing what was broken before even I was born.

    (Oh, and I paid way more into Social Security than I will ever see back. I’d love to have had that money in my 401(k), but I didn’t have any choice in that, either.)

    My generation doesn’t run the country. We aren’t in political power in Congress or in the governorships and never have been. We don’t run the schools. And when the baby boomers brought the new left into the schools in the 60s what did you think was going to happen? Why do you think my generation votes the way it does? The left dominates education. I remember being filled with global warming hysterics and environmentalist crap, as well as multiculturalist jive from middle school onward. Then college is a bastion of leftist orthodoxy. This is what happens when the right abandoned education.

    And Social Security isn’t going broke because everyone is paying way more than they take out. It is broke for the opposite reason. Some do pay in more than they take. And this just speaks to the fundamental injustice of the system. The government forcibly robs people to give in money they will never see again or people take money they have no right to that was taken from others. Hardly anyone leaves the system with equal to what they put in. The whole thing is a sham. It amazes that such a crap system has survived these 80 years.

    We may not run the country, but we have had voting rights since we were 18, and we saw fit to vote in overwhelming numbers for the Democratic ticket in 2008 and 2012. I think we may be better served by speaking to members of our own generation as opposed to trying to get people who have paid social security taxes their whole lives to come to our aid.

    Yeah we have voting rights since we were 18 and newsflash, Obama didn’t invent Social Security or Medicare. They were invented in the 30s and the 60s respectively. They have been and are runaway trains to wrecking the future of the country. And they were runaway trains when Bush was President and now that Obama is President. And because Millennials voted for him that justifies the train heading on its collision course and the people who collect and benefit from it while it is running to have no sense of responsibility to their kids and grand-kids? Smooth logic.

    I thought that paying a membership fee would help keep the tone a bit more civil in here, but oh well. My point is this: instead of placing all the blame on previous generations, try to make a change in your own. The elections of 2008 and 2012 clearly demonstrate that our generation is not on the course for major social program reform. Additionally, we millennials need to be careful when we place blame on previous generations because it can be argued that

    My tone wasn’t uncivil. Disagreeing isn’t an uncivil thing to do. And my point is that this train is going down within a short decade to 15 years without major reforms. To not appeal to the people who directly are benefiting from these programs is disingenuous as they are the ones that will be most affected. I don’t pin my hopes on my generation. Their generation is still in power and can actually do something about it. My generation will not be running things for another 15 to 20 years and by then it will be too late.

    • #19
  20. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    It am 56 with 4 children aged 20-26. I will willingly forgo all future SS payments IF, and only IF my four children are exempt from having to pay in.

    Any money we boomers refused would simply be spent by the government on something else.

    Regarding Medicare, thanks to Obamacare and an insurance system I don’t begin to understand, I think it will be our only choice for health insurance. There could be an economic argument to be made about refusing medicare, therefore ultimately refusing health care, and therefore dying young.

    • #20
  21. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Annefy:It am 56 with 4 children aged 20-26. I will willingly forgo all future SS payments IF, and only IF my four children are exempt from having to pay in.

    Any money we boomers refused would simply be spent by the government on something else.

    Regarding Medicare, thanks to Obamacare and an insurance system I don’t begin to understand, I think it will be our only choice for health insurance. There could be an economic argument to be made about refusing medicare, therefore ultimately refusing health care, and therefore dying young.

    It would be great if we could get this ball rolling. As for the healthcare situation, it is beyond despicable they have forced people into this position. You are forced to deal with the government or die as you say. The only solution for this is to obviously end Obamacare and offer people more options. It would be great if we could even have an opt in to medicare deal where you can decide if you want your money to fund it. If we did that I think it would be the end as people like keeping their money and would rather spend it on other things.

    • #21
  22. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Annefy:

    Any money we boomers refused would simply be spent by the government on something else.

    It will go into the politicians’ pockets.

    • #22
  23. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    MarciN:

    Annefy:

    Any money we boomers refused would simply be spent by the government on something else.

    It will go into the politicians’ pockets.

    This is probably true. But the best thing is that it is better going there than going into unsustainable programs that are going to cripple our economic future. If the politicians just took it that would be a major step up. But I suspect if we gathered the collective will to end these programs we would also have the will to demand they stop taking our money.

    • #23
  24. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    If you want boomer support for some sort of reform, I suggest you beat a drum that sounds something like the argument I just made.

    To call us hypocrites to take money, while we all know any money we leave in the hands of the government is simply going to get spent elsewhere, isn’t going to get you any supporters. And it doesn’t make any economic sense.

    • #24
  25. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Annefy:If you want boomer support for some sort of reform, I suggest you beat a drum that sounds something like the argument I just made.

    To call us hypocrites to take money, while we all know any money we leave in the hands of the government is simply going to get spent elsewhere, isn’t going to get you any supporters. And it doesn’t make any economic sense.

    The point I was making is that if you’re for small government and self reliance, then it should be a no brainer to fight heavily against the biggest government growth and debt mechanisms in the country. Many of the same people who claim to be for small government and self reliance don’t want Medicare or SS touched. This is hypocritical in my view or just plain ignorant. These programs have become sacred cows even among many on our side. A flat tax will do next to nothing compared to what ending or massively reforming these programs will do. Yet where is the drumbeat for serious change? Every candidate proposes flat tax, deregulation, shrinking public unions, lowering capital gains. When do they ever say we need to stop this now? Never. Instead we get Paul Ryan’s we will fix it in 20 years deal or whatever it was 10 years maybe. And they still want to leave much of it intact. This is the most radical proposal on the table and it doesn’t go far enough. It is abhorrent to force people to give their money away as if they can’t save for themselves. The whole thing has been an abomination from the beginning. Yet many Conservatives run on we want to save Medicare! We love Medicare! You can’t be for individualism, small government, and New Deal and Great Society leftist entitlement programs that are the largest drivers of government fraud, waste, abuse, and debt in the country. You gotta pick one and much of what I see is hypocrisy.

    • #25
  26. user_989419 Inactive
    user_989419
    @ProbableCause

    TheChuckSteak:No, in the country’s interest. If you aren’t interested in the future of the country or the futures of your kids and grand-kids then you are just a nihilist. There is no other way to look at it. You just want this baby to burn. There is no reason to be mad about Hope ‘n’ Change when you are cool with the country going bankrupt and kids that haven’t yet been born being enslaved to your bills. You should do the principled, virtuous, and right thing regardless of what other people do even if you are the only one doing it. Continuing to support these Ponzi Schemes because you are mad at Millennials for voting for Obama, when the Republican message is crap, is not justifiable in any sense or stands for American values in any sense. Just be honest about it. Maybe explaining to Millennials how they are getting burned and what you want to do about it might win some of them over. Or you can just continue insulting my generation and see if they vote for your positions.

    A quick hint, Chuck Steak — proper etiquette is to wait until comment #73 or so before impugning the other person’s motives.

    The fact is, President Bush (a Republican) made a push to reform Social Security.  The Democrats demagogued the issue, saying he was forcing people to risk their money in the stock market.  Bush lost; the Democrats won.  Now we have President Obama, and he has done nothing, except to expand government intrusion into health care.

    That’s the political record.  Millennials chose “D.”  They chose poorly.  And now, in additional to calling on my generation to fix everything, you place the burden on us to explain things better to millennials.  Are they children?

    Here’s an idea — perhaps millennials could take responsibility to figure this out for themselves, and start voting their interests.

    • #26
  27. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Chris Gregerson:

    Everything you want is reasonable in my estimation. I think one of the greatest things would be forcing these programs to be opt-in. We have been told for decades by the left about how these programs are so beloved and wonderful. Well if they are so beloved and wonderful then people would automatically send their money to them if they had the choice right? These programs would crumble and they know it. No one in their right mind would sign a waiver allowing the government to take a percentage of their income for Medicare and SS if given the choice.

    • #27
  28. Ricochet Inactive
    Ricochet
    @TheChuckSteak

    Probable Cause:

    TheChuckSteak:No, in the country’s interest. If you aren’t interested in the future of the country or the futures of your kids and grand-kids then you are just a nihilist. There is no other way to look at it. You just want this baby to burn. There is no reason to be mad about Hope ‘n’ Change when you are cool with the country going bankrupt and kids that haven’t yet been born being enslaved to your bills. You should do the principled, virtuous, and right thing regardless of what other people do even if you are the only one doing it. Continuing to support these Ponzi Schemes because you are mad at Millennials for voting for Obama, when the Republican message is crap, is not justifiable in any sense or stands for American values in any sense. Just be honest about it. Maybe explaining to Millennials how they are getting burned and what you want to do about it might win some of them over. Or you can just continue insulting my generation and see if they vote for your positions.

    A quick hint, Chuck Steak — proper etiquette is to wait until comment #73 or so before impugning the other person’s motives.

    The fact is, President Bush (a Republican) made a push to reform Social Security. The Democrats demagogued the issue, saying he was forcing people to risk their money in the stock market. Bush lost; the Democrats won. Now we have President Obama, and he has done nothing, except to expand government intrusion into health care.

    That’s the political record. Millennials chose “D.” They chose poorly. And now, in additional to calling on my generation to fix everything, you place the burden on us to explain things better to millennials. Are they children?

    Here’s an idea — perhaps millennials could take responsibility to figure this out for themselves, and start voting their interests.

    Well what are your motives? You said you would “get right on that” sarcastically. So you aren’t for getting on it therefore you are for the other option which is letting this thing burn. That is nihilistic in my view. If you aren’t for the solution you are for the other thing.

    And Bush also signed a medicare drug benefit for 1.2 trillion dollars. He also increased the debt to a greater degree than anyone had in history up to that point. Bush was no savior. And who do I call on to fix things? Should I call on the younger generations? I should wait until little Sally is 18 and can vote in 15 years when it is too late and these programs have gone bust? I am calling on the people in charge and on the people who are directly benefiting or about to benefit to stand up for principle.

    And yeah you need to explain things and make the case to win elections. If the Republicans abandon my generation the same way they abandoned blacks they will lose and deserve to lose. Obama won women, blacks, Asians, Latinos. You can explain nothing to any of those people and not explain why they are getting the shaft by the Democrats and expect to lose. Where is the message? And where are people on the other side taking a stand for them? Nowhere.

    • #28
  29. user_989419 Inactive
    user_989419
    @ProbableCause

    TheChuckSteak:Well what are your motives? You said you would “get right on that” sarcastically. So you aren’t for getting on it therefore you are for the other option which is letting this thing burn. That is nihilistic in my view. If you aren’t for the solution you are for the other thing.

    And Bush also signed a trillion dollar medicare drug benefit for 1.2 trillion dollars.

    Steak, you’re very good at throwing tomatoes, blaming others, and putting everyone else on the defensive.  I challenge you to do something constructive.  Put forward a plan of action.  Make a concrete proposal.

    In short, lead.

    • #29
  30. Annefy Member
    Annefy
    @Annefy

    If your goal is true reform, pointing fingers and reminding us of who did what is not going to move the ball down the court.

    Seniors are a huge voting block and to remind us the politicans on both sides of the aisle pander to them is hardly an “aha” moment.

    • #30

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