Q: Why Do I Think Republicans Are Going to Get Spanked on This Immigration Executive Order Thing?

 

Migrant-Farm-Workers-Are-the-Backbone-of-the-Agricultural-IndustryAnswer:

The Media. There are just too many examples of illegals that are acting like awesome people that you and I run into all the time. The media will make them into heroes, instead of people who took some serious legal risks by coming here illegally, not caring where the chips may fall. This narrative will never change.

What to do?

It seems to me that the Republicans are not focusing enough on border security. The Republicans can engage in a fight over executive overreach as a constitutional matter, or even the fact that strains on social services reduce the quality of life for all, including immigrants. However, the perception will be, as always, that Republicans are cruel. Work permits  (or even creeping amnesty) for every last illegal in this country is not going to hurt anyone very much in a way that can’t be managed, but a porous border is deadly.

I know I’m a dumb-dumb, but this dumb-dumb would make the issue into a national security matter and nothing else. Is that a loss and a retreat? Yes. It is. On to the next battle.

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  1. hawk@haakondahl.com Member
    hawk@haakondahl.com
    @BallDiamondBall

    The GOP is not interested in having, much less winning, this fight. The part they do not like is being cut out of the amnesty they wanted to deliver. Listen to John Boehner’s pathetic mewling that if Obama blasts amnesty from coast to coast, then the GOP will not work on a comprehensive amnesty bill.
    He would be an idiot if he meant what he said. Boehner lies. Obama tells the truth. Now what are we to do?

    I have never been so proud to have NOT voted as this night. Traitors.

    • #1
  2. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    It seems to me that the Republicans are not focusing enough on border security.

    Republicans are not putting the pressure on employers who pay under the table and do not require proper documentation. When I first opened my business in 1990, I had to turn away a highly qualified woman from France! because she didn’t have a work visa. California was quite strict about the issue at that point in time and enforced severe penalties for noncompliance.

    • #2
  3. Capt. Spaulding Member
    Capt. Spaulding
    @CaptSpaulding

    In a phrase borrowed from Rush, bring on the undocumented Democrats! Is it too much to hope that Obama’s maneuver will lead to the ruination of the entire Democratic Party?

    • #3
  4. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    In one sense I agree with you, the most pressing issue on the immigration debate is the porous border.  The people that are here…meh.  It doesn’t get my bile up whether we deport them or not.  However, giving them amnesty without increasing security at the border or reforming our visa entrance and exit system will only attract more illegal immigrants making the ICE’s job that much harder.

    • #4
  5. user_966256 Member
    user_966256
    @BobThompson

    The Federalists had Anti-Federalists and the Democrats have Anti-Democrats. I am not a Republican but I do vote Republican. For me, the issue of executive amnesty for illegal immigrants is not about immigration but it is about the rule of law. If the Congress passes legislation granting amnesty and the President signs it into law, I might well oppose elements of that law, but it will be the law and actions in accord will be legal. So the principle at stake is civil society governed by law as opposed to man. Where and when do we stand up for this principle if not here and now?

    • #5
  6. True Blue Inactive
    True Blue
    @TrueBlue

    “Too many examples of illegals acting like awesome people” huh? As a 13 year resident of New York City that awesomeness has entirely escaped my notice.
    What an utter crock…

    • #6
  7. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    Z in MT: The people that are here…meh.  It doesn’t get my bile up whether we deport them or not.  However, giving them amnesty without increasing security at the border or reforming our visa entrance and exit system will only attract more illegal immigrants making the ICE’s job that much harder.

    I wish we could get this message out to the MSM a little better. We immigration hard liners are not against the vast majority of folks that are already here – if my kids were hungry and I was presented with the same winks and nods [especially asinine court decisions] that the illegals have been offered in the recent past I would probably be here too. We need to secure the border first, then we can be magnanimous with those that are here.

    • #7
  8. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Z in MT:In one sense I agree with you, the most pressing issue on the immigration debate is the porous border. The people that are here…meh. It doesn’t get my bile up whether we deport them or not. However, giving them amnesty without increasing security at the border or reforming our visa entrance and exit system will only attract more illegal immigrants making the ICE’s job that much harder.

    I disagree. Extensive and expensive border patrol would not be necessary if illegal immigrants were unable to find work or enjoy benefits here.

    It’s easier and far more cost effective to monitor businesses and schools that attract the “undocumented.”

    • #8
  9. wmartin Member
    wmartin
    @

    Very poor strategy, and a total misunderstanding of the problem with immigration, illegal and otherwise.

    The “national security” questions are real, but  secondary to culture, social cohesion, and working and middle class wages.

    • #9
  10. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    EThompson:

    Z in MT:In one sense I agree with you, the most pressing issue on the immigration debate is the porous border. The people that are here…meh. It doesn’t get my bile up whether we deport them or not. However, giving them amnesty without increasing security at the border or reforming our visa entrance and exit system will only attract more illegal immigrants making the ICE’s job that much harder.

    I disagree. The enormous cost of extensive border patrol would not be necessary if illegal immigrants were unable to find work or benefits here.

    I think we actually agree.  It is a poor policy to do everything domestically we can to attract illegal immigrants to come here, just to try and prevent them from crossing the border.  It would be like leaving a hunk of rotting meat on your patio attracting flies so that your bug zapper can kill them.

    I don’t want extensive border patrol just to stop immigrants, the more important job of the border patrol is to prevent terrorists, gangs, drug smugglers, and their material from sneaking into our country.  If there are more immigrants crossing the border it makes it harder for the border control to focus on the badies.  That is why I am against amnesty.

    In the end the quickest way to end the illegal immigration problem is prosecute and imprison a couple of CEO’s from major corporations that hire illegal immigrant labor.  The likely candidates for being the scapegoats are Swift Meat Packing in the midwest and Dole fruits and vegetables in California.  Do this, and you can guarantee that business will stop using illegal aliens for labor.

    • #10
  11. Z in MT Member
    Z in MT
    @ZinMT

    As an addendum, this caricature that immigration hawks want to deport 11 million illegal immigrants is hard to thwart.  I don’t really care about increasing legal deportations.  Mitt Romney’s self deportation was correct, I want illegal immigrants to decide that their best opportunity is to go back to their own country and only immigrate to the US the legal way. In the mean time, the only way to convince them of that is: to not give them legal status and deport them when they screw up, which is usually by committing another crime other than working illegally.

    • #11
  12. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    Border security is of the utmost importance.  The problem is that neither Obama nor the Republican establishment give a damn about the safety of American citizens living along the border.  This coming Thanksgiving will mark nine years since I had my own encounter with border violence in Laredo, Texas.

    Moreover, amnesty must be blocked at all costs.  Foreign criminals should not be rewarded for the behavior at the expense of law-abiding American citizens.

    And, like Liz says in comments #2 and #8, the authorities need to come down hard on businesses that hire illegals. Make it a felony to hire such people.

    As for Obama, if he goes forward with executive amnesty, then impeach the bastard.  I’m sick and goddamn tired of the Republican establishment’s cowardice.  It’s time to stand up for American citizens and the republicanism that is their birthright.

    • #12
  13. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Z in MT:

    EThompson:

    Z in MT:In one sense I agree with you, the most pressing issue on the immigration debate is the porous border. The people that are here…meh. It doesn’t get my bile up whether we deport them or not. However, giving them amnesty without increasing security at the border or reforming our visa entrance and exit system will only attract more illegal immigrants making the ICE’s job that much harder.

    I disagree. The enormous cost of extensive border patrol would not be necessary if illegal immigrants were unable to find work or benefits here.

    In the end the quickest way to end the illegal immigration problem is prosecute and imprison a couple of CEO’s from major corporations that hire illegal immigrant labor. The likely candidates for being the scapegoats are Swift Meat Packing in the midwest and Dole fruits and vegetables in California. Do this, and you can guarantee that business will stop using illegal aliens for labor.

    As much as I fundamentally despise the War On Business, I don’t disagree with this. Perhaps all the burdensome EPA regulations should be replaced by stringent immigration regulations.

    I understand the benefits enjoyed by the consumer from cheap labor, but I know from personal experience that running a business with fewer employees at a higher salary with more responsibilities is a win-win for all parties involved.

    As an aside, I am becoming less and less satisfied with products I buy produced by cheap labor. The quality just isn’t there and I spend more time replacing things than I’d like. Unfortunately, even big ticket items such as cars, expensive shoes and handbags are no longer investments. I’ve always believed in buying the best and driving/wearing them for a very long time.

    • #13
  14. user_966256 Member
    user_966256
    @BobThompson

    EThompson: Republicans are not putting the pressure on employers who pay under the table and do not require proper documentation. When I first opened my business in 1990, I had to turn away a highly qualified woman from France! because she didn’t have a work visa. California was quite strict about the issue at that point in time and enforced severe penalties for noncompliance.

    In 1990 you had an administration that at least gave lip-service to our laws and likely would not come down on the state of California for standing up for Federal law like this administration did in the case of Arizona attempting to enforce Federal law. Your premise is exactly correct but difficult for Republicans at the moment unless Republican governors can do something.

    • #14
  15. Totus Porcus Inactive
    Totus Porcus
    @TotusPorcus

    True Blue:“Too many examples of illegals acting like awesome people” huh?As a 13 year resident of New York City that awesomeness has entirely escaped my notice. What an utter crock…

    Joe has a point.   The media only needs one or two examples of “undocumented” aliens where evil Republicans will deport the parents of an MIT pre-med student here as a Dreamer working with the poor when she’s not organizing for “immigrant rights.”

    They will never parade the twice deported MS-13 member who sells drugs and kills two police officers.

    But I’m tired of the argument that this means we should run up the white flag.

    • #15
  16. Petty Boozswha Inactive
    Petty Boozswha
    @PettyBoozswha

    EThompson:

    Expensive and expensive border patrol would not be necessary if illegal immigrants were unable to find work or enjoy benefits here.It’s easier and far more cost effective to monitor businesses and schools that attract the “undocumented.”

    I concede getting E-Verify is an essential part of border security. Right now employers will be bankrupted and put out of business if they try to comply with laws against employing the “undocumented”  and getting the Supreme Court to reverse Plyler v Doe is not going to happen in our lifetime. Edit: by bankrupted I mean the ACLU, La Raza and the rest of the racial grievance industrial complex will put out of business anyone who tries to use common sense when refusing to hire someone who presents phony ID.

    • #16
  17. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    The media! Finally someone addresses the real problem. They and the Dems are in cahoots and they are in control of this narrative — like seriously rigid control of this particular one. They have been honing it just like they have in handling Hamas’ videos that go straight up on the networks as soon as they come in. The media is controlled by the left for the most part and in these long running (seemingly insoluble) items where they get a chance to focus test their ideas on how to lie to the American people they have the whole shtick down pat. We won’t win this.

    Every single major and most other items that we are fighting for are controlled by the leftist media. This is just one of them.

    Joe, you are right that as long as the leftist media has control of the country not only will we not get control of this particular issue but we will — as usual — get the blame for it, as well.

    • #17
  18. Freesmith Member
    Freesmith
    @

    The border is located in Washington DC. There sit the agents who are responsible for guarding the nation’s borders. They have been derelict in their duty for decades.

    This evening our border guards, who were instructed by the voters not to pass anything like Comprehensive Immigration Reform, are explaining to voters who can’t vote for another two years that the only solution to the crisis of executive overreach is passing Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

    Democrats believe in taking advantage of crises. What we are seeing is a variation on that theme performed by Democrats in tandem with Establishment Republicans: Create a crisis, then do not let it go to waste.

    • #18
  19. Fake John Galt Coolidge
    Fake John Galt
    @FakeJohnJaneGalt

    I actually believe this is a brilliant move by Obama. By proving that he can do pretty much what he pleases by executive order he sets the game for even more ambitious executive orders in the future. Suspend congress, suspend or postpone the election, the sky is the limit.

    • #19
  20. Joe Escalante Member
    Joe Escalante
    @JoeEscalante

    True Blue:“Too many examples of illegals acting like awesome people” huh?As a 13 year resident of New York City that awesomeness has entirely escaped my notice. What an utter crock…

    There only needs to be one for the media to make that the narrative. If you haven’t met one, you must be living under an utter crock.

    • #20
  21. True Blue Inactive
    True Blue
    @TrueBlue

    Is knowing an awesome acting illegal (ignoring their contempt for our immigration laws of course) a universal American experience? That’s definitely news to me. Would live some examples!

    • #21
  22. PConn Inactive
    PConn
    @PConn

    Hate to say it but I think the only way to really manage it is by effecting the demand AND appealing to the progressive love of bashing business.

    Punish the Eeeeevil business owners who employ illegals. Pop a class warfare spin on it to befuddle the progs. “The monopoly guy wants you to work for slave wages, lets punish him!!! What, now you like the monopoly guy? He’s your friend?”

    Everify(or some sort of way to quickly verify employment info over the web) and big fines for knowingly employing illegal labor. No mass arrests or deportations, just do what government does best; Kill productivity.

    Not being sarcastic here. I think this is actually the way. Make it too risky to employ someone who cant prove they have valid employment credentials, have a few high profile arrests/fines for chamber of commerce types and then maybe they find out the joy of employing a young native born guy at a reasonable rate for that job they were getting the bargain labor for previously.

    • #22
  23. user_5186 Inactive
    user_5186
    @LarryKoler

    PConn, I like what you are saying but there’s still a part of me that balks at letting the narrative be shifted away too much from the more important border security issue. I and almost all Americans can handle more than one thing at a time but we know the media will be only interested in one issue at a time. They tell us that that’s because of the inability of the stupid people of this benighted country — but this is just one more of their lies about things.

    Propaganda arms know to beat the drum and harp on things incessantly. That’s what works and, of course, they don’t want to admit that they are trying to run the country through their proxy agents (the Democrats).

    • #23
  24. hawk@haakondahl.com Member
    hawk@haakondahl.com
    @BallDiamondBall

    True Blue, he’s talking about media portrayal.

    • #24
  25. True Blue Inactive
    True Blue
    @TrueBlue

    Don’t think he’s just talking about the media Ball Diamond Ball. The author seems very reluctant to speak frankly about illegals himself. They didn’t “take legal risks” to come here. They commited a crime. The vast majority had to commit many crimes to avoid deportation. The vast majority are in fact felons.

    I’m sure most of them love their grannies very much and are not axe murders but so what?

    • #25
  26. Roberto Inactive
    Roberto
    @Roberto

    Joe Escalante:

    True Blue:“Too many examples of illegals acting like awesome people” huh?As a 13 year resident of New York City that awesomeness has entirely escaped my notice. What an utter crock…

    There only needs to be one for the media to make that the narrative. If you haven’t met one, you must be living under an utter crock.

    More like the media and others seem to have a very selective memory.

    The most recent “awesome illegal” I can recall getting some notice in the local area was a fellow who murdered two cops. Oops.  Next time some politico or media operative yammers on about how great illegals are why doesn’t someone ask them if they have given that speech yet to the Oliver and Davis families? Perhaps they can pose in a nice photo op with  Mr. Marquez while they are at it.

    • #26
  27. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    I understand the benefits enjoyed by the consumer from cheap labor …

    I just realized I must take argument with my own hastily posted remark last night!

    As my husband reminded me, cleaning services charge $25/hr, gardening/lawn maintenance over $40/hr and roadside and home construction $75/hr plus. Any savings employers may enjoy from avoiding payroll taxes are certainly eliminated by productivity per worker.

    Ever notice while driving by a road repair project that there are always five workers standing around ‘supervising’ the one individual designated to actually do the work?

    • #27
  28. user_44643 Inactive
    user_44643
    @MikeLaRoche

    EThompson:I just realized I must take argument with my own hastily posted remark last night!

    As my husband reminded me, cleaning services charge $25/hr, gardening/lawn maintenance over $40/hr and roadside and home construction $75/hr plus. Any savings employers may enjoy from avoiding payroll taxes are certainly eliminated by productivity per worker.

    Ever notice while driving by a road repair project that there are always five workers standing around ‘supervising’ the one individual designated to actually do the work?

    That’s why I always laugh when the illegals are praised by open-borders nuts as “hard-working”.  Those of us who are from the border *know* that’s BS.

    • #28
  29. MJBubba Member
    MJBubba
    @

    Well, just as Joe Escalante predicted, my local paper has a front page article, with an attractive photo, about a struggling illegal alien woman in our city who has cute kids and works for a nonprofit that helps poor people.   Their article about Obama’s speech is buried on page A5.

    • #29
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