Yesterday in Warsaw

 

10_Pope_John_Paul_II_Lech_Walesa-3Lech Walesea, leader of the Solidarity movement and then, after the fall of Communism, the first president of Poland, during an interview yesterday:

If the U.S. doesn’t really want to be a superpower anymore, I’d say let Poland take over that leadership and we’d take care of the rest. I promise you, we’d know what to do.

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  1. True Blue Inactive
    True Blue
    @TrueBlue

    They’re welcome to world leadership!  Unfortunately, I’d stay his reach exceeds his grasp.  If we could find a reasonable alternative to US global leadership, we’d be crazy not to jump at the chance to stick to our own knitting.  Maybe Australia in 2200?

    • #1
  2. user_75648 Thatcher
    user_75648
    @JohnHendrix

    Ouch. Well, we had that coming.

    Our problem is that our leaders cannot bring themselves to admonish the American people that they cannot expect to vote themselves a holiday from history.  I suppose our self-esteemed leaders didn’t because they didn’t think that the American people would vote for them should they point out this basic fact-of-life.  Another profile in political cowardice.

    If the American people have become so infantile that they think that nothing bad can happen to them or their country if they vote for the likes of Obama then America cannot even pretend that it intends to manage her own affairs, never mind provide leadership to anyone else.

    • #2
  3. The Mugwump Inactive
    The Mugwump
    @TheMugwump

    How many American bloggers does it take to spell a Polish name?

    • #3
  4. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    I’m Lech Walesa’s biggest fan; in fact he was the inspiration for this American’s trip to Gdansk. Perhaps he and Stephen Harper could figure out how to hijack American wealth to run a stable and strong world foreign policy, assisted by Daniel Hannan. And oh, perhaps we could coax John Howard to come out of retirement.

    • #4
  5. The Mugwump Inactive
    The Mugwump
    @TheMugwump

    I grew up in a Polish household where my grandparents preferred their native language.  The Poles are a tremendously proud people, and also extremely brave.  The history of the 20th century was not kind to Poland, but the people maintained their faith, fight, and determination against all enemies.  The Poles see themselves as Europe’s guardians having at times turned back invasions by the Mongols, Turks, and Russians.  You can bet that Lech Walesa has the advantage of moral clarity over his European peers.

    • #5
  6. Tiger Inactive
    Tiger
    @Tiger

    True Blue:

    They’re welcome to world leadership! Unfortunately, I’d stay his reach exceeds his grasp. If we could find a reasonable alternative to US global leadership, we’d be crazy not to jump at the chance to stick to our own knitting. Maybe Australia in 2200?

     Why 2200?  will we have an aircraft carrier by then?

    • #6
  7. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    The Mugwump:

    The Poles are a tremendously proud people, and also extremely brave. The history of the 20th century was not kind to Poland, but the people maintained their faith, fight, and determination against all enemies. The Poles see themselves as Europe’s guardians having at times turned back invasions by the Mongols, Turks, and Russians. You can bet that Lech Walesa has the advantage of moral clarity over his European peers.

    I’m particularly sensitive to this commentary after my first visit to Poland (Wroclaw, Krakow, Gdansk); one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Eastern European countries is that I appreciate their remarkable resilience to both Hitler and Stalin. Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic are not merely ‘survivors,’ but tough, thriving centers of capitalism. Love them.

    • #7
  8. Clavius Thatcher
    Clavius
    @Clavius

    Let’s not forget it was a Polish Pope who helped win the Cold War.  He knew what to do.

    • #8
  9. user_358258 Inactive
    user_358258
    @RandyWebster

    History hasn’t been kind to the Poles for a long time.  The 20th Century was just icing on the cake.

    • #9
  10. user_82762 Inactive
    user_82762
    @JamesGawron

    John Hendrix:

    Ouch. Well, we had that coming.

    Our problem is that our leaders cannot bring themselves to admonish the American people that they cannot expect to vote themselves a holiday from history. I suppose our self-esteemed leaders didn’t because they didn’t think that the American people would vote for them should they point out this basic fact-of-life. Another profile in political cowardice.

    If the American people have become so infantile that they think that nothing bad can happen to them or their country if they vote for the likes of Obama then America cannot even pretend that it intends to manage her own affairs, never mind provide leadership to anyone else.

     John,

    This new book you are working on about the Obama Administration “Profiles in Cowardice”, will your publisher allow us to see a preview?

    Regards,

    Jim

    • #10
  11. user_333118 Inactive
    user_333118
    @BarbaraKidder

    EThompson:

    I’m Lech Walesa’s biggest fan; in fact he was the inspiration for this American’s trip to Gdansk. Perhaps he and Stephen Harper could figure out how to hijack American wealth to run a stable and strong world foreign policy, assisted by Daniel Hannan. And oh, perhaps we could coax John Howard to come out of retirement.

     Better leaders all than our current president, but even Daniel Hannan has feet of clay;  he threw his support behind Senator Obama!

    • #11
  12. user_998621 Member
    user_998621
    @Liz

    Walesa spoke at my college graduation in 2000, and I have been a fan ever since.  My school had a lot of students from Eastern Europe — the valedictorian was Bulgarian — so I think there were many listening who could appreciate his message.  One thing he hammered was our continued nonchalance about a communist country 90 miles off our shores.  In retrospect (now that I have read Pacepa’s latest, and half of Diana West’s “American Betrayal”) I think he pulled his punches a little.  Our nonchalant attitude extends to all communist countries, regardless of the scale if their crimes, and we have apparently learned nothing since our alliance with Stalin.  
    There are few tough guys like Walesa.  He puts our leaders (past and present) to shame.

    • #12
  13. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    I appreciate Walesa’s sacrifices and leadership, however I think it’s way past time for Europe to start paying the bill for their own defense. And likewise for Japan and South Korea.

    • #13
  14. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    Maybe Poland, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Ukraine, Israel, Canada, and other freedom-loving countries can form a new military alliance as competition to NATO?

    Probably not.

    Australia will never cross China, and Canada keeps cancelling military contracts due to lack of funds.

    • #14
  15. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    How many Poles does it take to make a superpower?

    • #15
  16. Misthiocracy Member
    Misthiocracy
    @Misthiocracy

    ctlaw:

    How many Poles does it take to make a superpower?

    According to this blog, Polish jokes originated with Nazi propaganda, and were adopted by Hollywood due to a pro-Russian, anti-Catholic bias.

    http://able2know.org/topic/121548-1

    Since the blog provides no citations to back up that claim, take it for what it’s worth.

    • #16
  17. user_428379 Coolidge
    user_428379
    @AlSparks

    EThompson:

    The Mugwump:

    The Poles are a tremendously proud people, and also extremely brave. The history of the 20th century was not kind to Poland, but the people maintained their faith, fight, and determination against all enemies. The Poles see themselves as Europe’s guardians having at times turned back invasions by the Mongols, Turks, and Russians. You can bet that Lech Walesa has the advantage of moral clarity over his European peers.

    I’m particularly sensitive to this commentary after my first visit to Poland (Wroclaw, Krakow, Gdansk); one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Eastern European countries is that I appreciate their remarkable resilience to both Hitler and Stalin. Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic are not merely ‘survivors,’ but tough, thriving centers of capitalism. Love them.

     I visited Prague, Czech Republic in 2001.  I found the people to be unfriendly, though not hostile.  I was just there as a tourist.  Their downtown, was a combination of red light district and typical European museum layout.

    In retrospect, they may have thought I was British, who had (have?) a reputation as drunkard partiers.  I saw a few there.

    • #17
  18. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    Misthiocracy:

    ctlaw:

    How many Poles does it take to make a superpower?

    According to this blog, Polish jokes originated with Nazi propaganda, and were adopted by Hollywood due to a pro-Russian, anti-Catholic bias.

    http://able2know.org/topic/121548-1

    Since the blog provides no citations to back up that claim, take it for what it’s worth.

     Germans are incapable of wielding humor as a weapon.

    • #18
  19. user_998621 Member
    user_998621
    @Liz

    I found a transcript online of the speech he gave at my commencement.  Here are a few quotes:

    […] For example, you have here a very close neighbor that still has the system, and you still     haven’t won the battle against that neighbor. Of course, my problem was even harder               because the Soviet Union was bigger than that neighbor that I refer to, when, in fact, I have my suspicions that you want to keep that country as a kind of a “Jurassic Park” of Marxism and Leninism. Perhaps that’s sensible from one point of view, I don’t know. Right now the situation seems as if you were having a mosquito biting the United States on the nose.

    and

    And in fact, if it suddenly occurs to you that you are fed up with being the super power of the world, just give the position to Poland and they will know what to do with it.

    Far-sighted man, and consistent, too.

    • #19
  20. EThompson Member
    EThompson
    @

    Al Sparks:

    EThompson:

    The Mugwump:

    The Poles are a tremendously proud people, and also extremely brave. The history of the 20th century was not kind to Poland, but the people maintained their faith, fight, and determination against all enemies. The Poles see themselves as Europe’s guardians having at times turned back invasions by the Mongols, Turks, and Russians. You can bet that Lech Walesa has the advantage of moral clarity over his European peers.

    I’m particularly sensitive to this commentary after my first visit to Poland (Wroclaw, Krakow, Gdansk); one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Eastern European countries is that I appreciate their remarkable resilience to both Hitler and Stalin. Poland, Hungary, and Czech Republic are not merely ‘survivors,’ but tough, thriving centers of capitalism. Love them.

    I visited Prague, Czech Republic in 2001. I found the people to be unfriendly, though not hostile.

    I did as well although I would describe it as a melancholia which made me more determined to support them in any way that I could. I would challenge your description of Prague because it is a city of unique hotels and museums, magnificent architecture, and the Ceska filharmonie where I first heard Sibelius No. 1.

    • #20
  21. Quinn the Eskimo Member
    Quinn the Eskimo
    @

    I’d love to have the Poles take up the burden of international leadership, but they don’t have the resources.

    The choice is not simply about whether America should or shouldn’t lead.  If we don’t, someone will replace us.  The question is whether America should lead or Russia and China.   The mantle of international leadership is rightly considered a burden for us, but I can’t imagine things would be any easier with Russia and China calling the shots.

    • #21
  22. Blue State Curmudgeon Inactive
    Blue State Curmudgeon
    @BlueStateCurmudgeon

    Appropos of nothing, back in the late 90’s I was on a flight from Oklahoma City to Chicago two seats behind Lech Walesa.  He had a laptop with him and was working diligently on something.  I struggled to get a look at what he was laboring over as he had some bodyguards sitting behid him.  Finally I was able to catch a glance at his screen…he was playing solitare !  I thought to myself, why not?  He’s done more than enough for the world and has earned this small indulgence.

    • #22
  23. Kay of MT Inactive
    Kay of MT
    @KayofMT

    Misthiocracy:

    ctlaw:

    How many Poles does it take to make a superpower?

    According to this blog, Polish jokes originated with Nazi propaganda, and were adopted by Hollywood due to a pro-Russian, anti-Catholic bias.

    http://able2know.org/topic/121548-1

    Since the blog provides no citations to back up that claim, take it for what it’s worth.

     I’m convinced that if you cannot speak, read, or write Polish then you are too ignorant to make Polish jokes.

    • #23
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