Contributor Post Created with Sketch. Itamar: Who Will Show These Photos?

 

Dear colleagues,

These photos were released by the family. They have given full permission for their use and they to ask you to report on the horrific reality of murdering children and babies in their sleep, simply because they are Jewish.

On Friday night at 10:30 pm the terrorists entered the house through the living room picture window, did not notice the 6-year-old boy sleeping on the couch and continued on to the bedroom where they slashed the throats of the father and newborn baby who were sleeping there. The mother came out of the bathroom and was stabbed on its threshold. The evidence shows that she tried to fight the terrorists. They then slashed the throat of the 11-year old-son who was reading in bed. They did not notice the 2-year old asleep in his bed, but murdered the 3-year old with two stabs to his heart. After that, they locked the door, exited through the window and escaped. Two hours after the infiltration, there was another warning signal from the same spot on the fence, as the terrorists left the way they had come. Once again, the patrol did not identify the source of the signal as infiltration.

The 12-year-old daughter returned home at 00:30 and found the door locked. She asked a neighbor to help her. He brought a weapon with him once he noticed tracks and mud near the house. The two woke up the 6-year old sleeping in the living room by calling through the window and when he opened the door, the Rabbi returned to his home. When she entered the bedrooms, the young daughter saw the horrific bloodsoaked scene and ran out of the house screaming. The neighbor ran back and fired several shots in the air to alert security personnel. Within a short time, large police and IDF forces arrived and began intensive searches to see if the terrorists were still in the community. At 03:30 a.m., military trackers discovered footprints leading to the Arab village of Avrata.

With hopes for better days,

Ruthie Lieberman

The photos, she says, “are high resolution and can be reproduced in your website and newspaper.”  Let’s see which newspapers and websites do. I won’t show them on Ricochet–I know a lot of our readers have kids who look at the site.

I look at this and wonder what some of our members wondered about parents who went to riots in Egypt and Libya with their kids: What kind of parent settles in Itamar?  Yes, you should have the right to assemble and protest in Egypt and Libya without being beaten or gunned down. And Jews and Arabs alike should live side by side in harmony. But they don’t.  And given that, I cannot understand moving to Itamar with your young children.  

We’re arranging to go to Itamar this week.  I’ll tell you what they say. 

There are 35 comments.

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  1. Claire Berlinski, Ed. Editor
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    Rosie: My God!! Those pictures are horrific. This is why I am repulsed by those who claim Islam is a religion of peace. There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam. · Mar 12 at 11:10pm

    Rosie, please look at the videos I posted of our conversation with Ibrahim, who was himself injured in a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv. Watch them through. He says he is a Muslim. He says Islam absolutely forbids the harming of innocents. He has been a victim of this kind of terrorism himself. Are you prepared to tell him he is interpreting his religion incorrectly?

    • #1
    • March 13, 2011, at 3:05 AM PDT
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  2. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member
    Claire Berlinski, Ed. Rosie, please look at the videos I posted of our conversation with Ibrahim, who was himself injured in a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv. Watch them through. He says he is a Muslim. He says Islam absolutely forbids the harming of innocents. He has been a victim of this kind of terrorism himself. Are you prepared to tell him he is interpreting his religion incorrectly? · Mar 13 at 3:05am

    Claire, the issue isn’t rightness or wrongness of his interpretation of his religion. The issue is that there is a portion of the population of Muslims (ranging anywhere from a significant minority to a plurality of adherents – even a majority, depending on the poll question) who desire a strict adherence to Sharia or otherwise wish to convert the rest of humanity by force.

    Ibrahim seems like a nice guy – but him telling me that Islam forbids harming innocents is a guy talking to the wrong audience. If he desires to evangelize, then he needs to be evangelizing the adherents of his own religion – to help them live up to his view.

    I don’t think that Rosie is the person who needs to be lectured.

    • #2
    • March 13, 2011, at 5:49 AM PDT
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  3. Aodhan Inactive

    Claire, the problem is this: it’s not only his religion.

    If it were, he could not be misinterpreting his religion by definition.

    It is Islam as it exists that his is interpreting improperly, or at least incompletely.

    And so too are the psychopathic perpetrators of the Itamar enormity (supposing the perpetrators they did it in the name of Islam).

    By necessity, both parties are misinterpreting Islam as it exists, because of the existence of one other. The Islam they jointly represent–a contradictory entity–represents neither alone.

    One can ask: which is really right? Which Muslim follows the true Islam?

    However, this question is only coherent for a Muslim who believes by faith that some version of Islam is true.

    For a non-Muslim, who believes that no such version is, there is no ideal Islam beyond that which is actually practiced, and against which particular real versions might be measured. For a non-Muslim, the practice of Islam defines Islam.

    So, for non-Muslim, the question of what Islam is, on the whole, is statistical, not metaphysical.

    Question: How many bad Muslims, of X badness, does it take to offset all the good Muslims, of X goodness?

    • #3
    • March 13, 2011, at 5:52 AM PDT
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  4. David Foster Member
    David Foster Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Had the West stood with solidarity against Palestinian terrorism, there would be a lot less of this kind of thing in the Middle East and elsewhere.

    The blood of these victims is on the hands of those journalists, entertainers, activists, and college professors who for several decades have excused and even romanticized terrorism.

    • #4
    • March 13, 2011, at 6:19 AM PDT
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  5. Roque Nuevo Inactive

    The issue here isn’t Zionism or anti Zionism The issue isn’t Israel’s right to exist. The issue is Jew-hatred. Hating Jews has always made people feel better, smarter, purer. If these murderers are held up to the world as “resistence fighters” (because the “Zionist entity” has left them no other way), then it’s because it makes people feel better, smarter, purer. In what other world can one support “national liberation” by the gruesome murders of innocents in their sleep? Take away the Jew-hatred and all you have is horrific mass murder.

    • #5
    • March 13, 2011, at 8:26 AM PDT
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  6. Stuart Creque Member
    Stuart Creque Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    One thought: it’s entirely possible that the killers of the Fogel family were not motivated by Islamist fervor but by good old-fashioned Palestinian nationalism. The PLO, PFLP and other old-line “resistance” groups were more devout followers of Marx than Mohammed back in the 1970s.

    • #6
    • March 13, 2011, at 8:45 AM PDT
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  7. Bereket Kelile Member
    Bereket Kelile Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Wow! My God, that is horrific.

    • #7
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:20 AM PDT
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  8. Lockdowns are Precious Inactive
    Lockdowns are Precious Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Not what I wanted to read before turning in for the night, but bracing reporting as always Claire. I’m looking forward to what you find when you dig into the story. I want to know as much as you do why they would move to Itamar with their kids.

    • #8
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:21 AM PDT
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  9. Profile Photo Member

    There’s been a lot of talk about civil discourse lately. These pictures are graphic evidence of the fruits of generations brought up in a miasmic atmosphere of hate.

    As for why the family chose Itamar in the first place, I will, uncharacteristically, reserve comment on something I know nothing about.

    • #9
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:44 AM PDT
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  10. Kervinlee Member
    Kervinlee Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Again, it make me wonder; why are we so anxious to reconcile with the kind people who are capable of such barbarity?

    • #10
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:56 AM PDT
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  11. Nymeria Inactive
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    Rosie: My God!! Those pictures are horrific. This is why I am repulsed by those who claim Islam is a religion of peace. There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam. · Mar 12 at 11:10pm

    Rosie, please look at the videos I posted of our conversation with Ibrahim, who was himself injured in a terrorist attack in Tel Aviv. Watch them through. He says he is a Muslim. He says Islam absolutely forbids the harming of innocents. He has been a victim of this kind of terrorism himself. Are you prepared to tell him he is interpreting his religion incorrectly? · Mar 13 at 3:05am

    Claire, just as I previously stated there are moderate Muslims who have consciously chosen to ignore the statements in the Koran that call for the destruction of the non-Muslim. As I understand it the peaceful parts of coexistence were written earlier and the calls for war and domination were written later. From what I have understood the Islamic jurisprudence has stated that the parts of the Koran written in the later half of the Mohammed’s life take precedence over the prior ones.

    • #11
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:58 AM PDT
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  12. Profile Photo Member

    I am not courageous enough to open the photos. By the way, what is “the truth” surrounding the Chabad house murders in Mumbai 2010? The facts/details seemed to be suppressed

    • #12
    • March 13, 2011, at 11:59 AM PDT
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  13. Israel P. Inactive

    They will say – as we all do here – “If we quit, they win. If we run, they are encouraged. If we go, it will be worse for those who stay.”

    The folks in Hevron say it best.

    • #13
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:01 PM PDT
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  14. Sisyphus Coolidge
    Sisyphus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Claire, it is difficult to even begin to address this under the COC. The Palestinians were given refuge in Jordan at one point, and they very quickly set about an attempt to assassinate the King in gratitude. So back to the refugee camps. These pawns have been turned into the dog soldiers of Jihad by Arab cousins, and are simply waiting out the next Arab-Israeli War to claim the rights they abandoned in 1948.

    Of course, it never works out that way. I would not try to raise a family in DC, much less Itamar. But if I were Jewish, with huge chunks of the world denying my right to exist and demanding payment in full for any slander they can dream up, if, like a good friend of mine, over 75% of my relations met their fate in the ovens, the entire European branch, every man, woman, and child, I might see the issue differently.

    As it stands, I live under a vile government that supports and promotes the Muslim Brotherhood. Our CIA experts think the Brotherhood are somehow YMCA-like. And official Washington tries to stigmatize anyone who speaks on the Brotherhood and Sharia vs. the Constitution.

    • #14
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:08 PM PDT
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  15. Nymeria Inactive

    My God!! Those pictures are horrific. This is why I am repulsed by those who claim Islam is a religion of peace. There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam.

    • #15
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:10 PM PDT
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  16. Michael Kellogg Inactive

    I viewed the thumbnails, but I can’t bring myself to open the hi-res versions. You can’t “un-see” something that gruesome.

    Like Rosie, I wonder what kind of a person could do such a horrible thing to another fellow human. What kind of rage must you have in your heart? These people in Arab lands who stoke this kind of hatred throughout their society have this blood on their hands every bit as much as these murderers do.

    • #16
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:35 PM PDT
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  17. Stuart Creque Member
    Stuart Creque Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    So if the Palestinian Authority asks the UN General Assembly to recognize it as a state, and if the GA agrees, won’t the people of Itamar become citizens of the new Nation of Palestine? I mean, the Palestinians wouldn’t expel or (God forbid) slaughter their Jewish neighbors, would they?

    It’s amazing that the Muslim nations managed to relocate essentially all their Jewish citizens from ghettoes in those lands to one consolidated ghetto called Israel… and yet because the Jews are no longer at their mercy, they still want to annihilate them. You’d think they’d be happy to have the Jews tucked away in one tiny corner of the Middle East, but apparently the operating principle is “I cannot be happy with all that I have so long as you have anything at all.”

    • #17
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:37 PM PDT
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  18. Stuart Creque Member
    Stuart Creque Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    By the way, I hope the folks commenting in the capital punishment thread take a look at these photos. They’re quite illuminating.

    • #18
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:41 PM PDT
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  19. Israel P. Inactive
    Stuart Creque:

    amazing that the Muslim nations managed to relocate essentially all their Jewish citizens from ghettoes in those lands to one consolidated ghetto called Israel… and yet because the Jews are no longer at their mercy, they still want to annihilate them. You’d think they’d be happy to have the Jews tucked away in one tiny corner of the Middle East, but apparently the operating principle is “I cannot be happy with all that I have so long as you have anything at all.” · Mar 12 at 11:37pm

    Edited on Mar 12 at 11:38 pm

    For those who are still smarting from being turned away at the gates of Vienna less than 320 years ago and who still yearn for their lost Spanish homeland, the independent Jewish state in their midst is a wart which must be excised before going on to “recovering” their European dream.

    • #19
    • March 13, 2011, at 12:52 PM PDT
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  20. Sisyphus Coolidge
    Sisyphus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Dead on, Roque. We do ourselves no favors when, after 38 years of alliance, Egypt burns their churches and murders their Christians. The choices appear to be colonization or containment. All of Bush’s little surprises, the failure to establish a secular constitution in Iraq and Afghanistan, the explosive violence, the ethnic cleansing of Iraqi, and now Egyptian, Christians, the systemic violence levied against females, the brutal criminalization of apostasy (the mark of a weak, unpopular religion), and our own troops shocked and disgusted at the rampant pedophilia, says no to colonization. Not that we are that kind of a nation to begin with.

    The events of the last 10 years make it obvious we must draw a line and stick to it. While Iraqis were murdering Christians, we were building up their infrastructure and building their madrasahs. An ostensibly conservative W trying to work Christian charity (or the materialist dialectic) as nation building has been predictably processed by the umma as proper dhimmitude, a position that requires no gratitude, just a sense of entitlement to more.

    As a nation, we have consistently aided the emergence of this populist Islamism into the light, nurtured it. We have sown the wind.

    • #20
    • March 14, 2011, at 1:17 AM PDT
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  21. Caryn Thatcher
    Caryn Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.

    I look at this and wonder…: What kind of parent settles in Itamar? …I cannot understand moving to Itamar with your young children.

    Claire, this sounds an awful lot like blaming the victim. BTW, before moving to Itamar they were thrown out of Gush Katif. They were trying to make a living the best they could, I guess.

    “Originally residents of the Gush Katif block of villages in the Gaza Strip, the Fogel family moved first to Ariel after Israel’s 2006 disengagement left them homeless. In Itamar, Udi Fogel, an Israeli Defense Force officer, worked as an instructor in the local yeshiva.” From here.

    Arabs seem to be able to build and live pretty much anywhere they want to in Israel, but the west bank of the Jordan region in Israel is supposed to be voluntarily Judenrein? Is that really what you are suggesting? I really, really hope I’m misunderstanding what you wrote.

    • #21
    • March 14, 2011, at 2:16 AM PDT
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  22. Charles Gordon Inactive

    The average Mohammedan is who? In Judeo-Christendom, the average Jew or Christian?

    In the set 1-10, what is the average? Not the same as in 1-100. Average is inherent in the set.

    The set of Mohammedans follow the path of the Qur’an; of other Books, the sets of Jews and Christians.

    From first through last page in the Qur’an, the average is between Mecca and Medina. Entry into Mecca or Medina to the infidel is forbidden—the middle-point where average Mohammedans may mix with us lies in our acceptance of dhimmitude.

    The end of Mohammed’s life—and of time in the Qur’an—was with the Sunni tribes in Medina, whose warriors in abundant bloodshed prevailed over all.

    Thereafter, Sunnis, Shi’ias split.

    Another tectonic split could devastate us, the split of Arabia: on one side, where the King’s Sunni tribes in Mecca, Medina, and Jeddah on the Red Sea live, and on the other, where those desert oil fields are in the Shi’ia East, nearby the Persian Gulf shores—and Iran.

    When oil reaches its record price, we will learn who are our friends and enemies, both foreign and domestic.

    • #22
    • March 14, 2011, at 3:22 AM PDT
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  23. bernai Member
    bernai Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Perhaps I am no more than an unenlightened reactionary but I can feel nothing other than furious outrage over what has been done. When the Imams and the Islamic theologians begin to condemn such acts and hand these criminals over to justice I will rethink my position. I read today that those in Gaza are celebrating the attack… There was a book written a few years ago entitled “Son of Hamas” in which Islam is likened to a ladder where at the bottom rung there is prayer, serving others , and many other traits that we like to see in the moderate “reasonable” muslim. The top rung however contains those who perpetrate acts of terror. The unnerving thing about the observation is that the author notes that the climb up the ladder is gradual the shift from moderate to radical can take place at any time. The book is a worthy read.

    • #23
    • March 14, 2011, at 3:59 AM PDT
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  24. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    I feel the deepest loathing for the perpetrators of these foul murders, and furious contempt for those who would celebrate them.But I do not wish physical harm to any of them, though I wouldn’t mourn it. And when the beasts are brought to justice I will feel a righteous and solemn satisfaction, but no pleasure.

    • #24
    • March 14, 2011, at 4:19 AM PDT
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  25. Katherine Inactive

    Accidently posted twice; see below.

    • #25
    • March 14, 2011, at 4:47 AM PDT
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  26. Katherine Inactive
    Claire Berlinski, Ed.
    Rosie: There may be moderate Muslims but there is no moderate Islam. · Mar 12 at 11:10pm
    He says Islam absolutely forbids the harming of innocents. He has been a victim of this kind of terrorism himself. Are you prepared to tell him he is interpreting his religion incorrectly? · Mar 13 at 3:05am

    Claire, the Israelis are NOT innocent. They are the enemies of Islam. It’s the same argument bin Laden et al used after 9/11. The people we call “innocent civilians” in the Twin Towers were actually fair game for murder because they elected government officials who went to war in Muslim lands and oppressed Muslims (or something). So it is not against the Koran to kill them. It’s not against the teachings of Islam to kill occupiers of Muslim lands.

    • #26
    • March 14, 2011, at 4:56 AM PDT
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  27. Sisyphus Coolidge
    Sisyphus Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    Katherine, everyone is the enemy of Islam in the eyes of the Islamists. The United States is tolerated for its acts of dhimmi submission, such as the $777M in tax payers dollars being funneled through USAID to restore ancient mosques in Egypt and elsewhere. This, too, has been a bi-partisan policy for decades.

    At the time of 9/11 the United States had saved a Muslim population against Serbian ethnic cleansing, intervened diplomatically with Russia on behalf of Chechnyan Muslims, restored the sovereignty of Kuwait against Iraqi Baathist aggression, and stationed our forces on Saudi territory to deter further Iraqi agression.

    This last was the “offense” that inspired Bin Laden to engineer mass atrocities in New York and Arlington. We had profaned the sacred Arab peninsula, the land of Mecca and Medina, with our infidel presence.

    The Sauds are a basket case, half of degrees granted Saudi nationals are in Theology and, as of 9/11, the national income was one third per capita what it had been in the 70s. Guest workers are required for any work beneath the dignity of the ummah. On their own, they could not withstand a paper cut or feed themselves.

    • #27
    • March 14, 2011, at 5:51 AM PDT
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  28. Stan Hjerleid Inactive

    debbieschlussel.com ran a story and pics too. So tragic.

    • #28
    • March 14, 2011, at 6:30 AM PDT
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  29. Instugator Thatcher
    Instugator Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member
    Sisyphus: …our own troops shocked and disgusted at the rampant pedophilia

    The single most understated, undercounted, unacknowledged problem with the entire region.

    That this is tolerated in a region where beheadings are common and among a religion which mandates stoning for certain offenses is beyond appalling.

    • #29
    • March 14, 2011, at 6:33 AM PDT
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  30. Spin Coolidge
    Spin Joined in the first year of Ricochet Ricochet Charter Member

    To Claire’s original point, at least one news agency, the BBC, chose to report the murders in the context of Israel’s decision to open the West Bank for further settlement by Jews. They treated the story as if it were just a criminal act, rather than an act of terrorism. Link here.

    • #30
    • March 14, 2011, at 6:49 AM PDT
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