Time to take Alberta Separation Seriously

 

For disclosure, I have been in support of Alberta/Western Canada separation since the 80s. I even bought the T-shirt “Republic of Western Canada” back in the day… So the concept of Western alienation and independence is not new to me.

“To what extent would you support or oppose the province of Alberta becoming a country independent of Canada?” 47% were in favour compared to 48% opposed, with those in support higher than in many previous polls. 

Second, while 62% of Canadians nationally are opposed to Alberta separating compared to 26% in favour, 55% said they “understand why Alberta might want to become an independent country” compared to 37% who said they didn’t understand. 

The survey of 1,537 Canadian adults taken from May 16-18 found more people in every province, among both men and women and in every age group, saying they understood why Alberta might want to become an independent country, than those who said they didn’t understand. 

Toronto Sun Editorial

Even the Toronto media is starting to notice that we mean it. This is unlike Quebec, which has never meant it; Quebec independence was always an empty threat because without the Equalization Payments, Quebec could not pay for its social programs – let alone build replacements for the federal government functions.

We (Alberta) feel like Hank Rearden. We pay all the bills, yet at every corner we’re mocked, denigrated and ignored.

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  1. GPentelie Coolidge
    GPentelie
    @GPentelie

    Do it!

    • #1
  2. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Alberta can separate if it wants to, but that doesn’t mean we want them added to the US.

    • #2
  3. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Join us. We have brisket. And better beer (ducks).

    • #3
  4. Hartmann von Aue Member
    Hartmann von Aue
    @HartmannvonAue

    Or just remain independent. That would be fine, too. We’re pretty relaxed about that prospect down here really.

    • #4
  5. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Like most Americans of my acquaintance, I’m largely ignorant of what goes on in Canada. As a young, dirt-poor Southerner I never imagined visiting the place, but while in high school I did see an aerial photograph that showed a clear-cut area of a dense forest. On the Northern side, one was in Canada. On the Southern side, the U. S. Even back then I thought it was pretty cool that two nations trusted each other enough to leave vast sections of the border unguarded. I hope that’s still true. 

    • #5
  6. John H. Member
    John H.
    @JohnH

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Or just remain independent. That would be fine, too. We’re pretty relaxed about that prospect down here really.

    I’m not relaxed. Alberta has no seaports. Do we want the Bolivia of Canada?

    • #6
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    John H. (View Comment):

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Or just remain independent. That would be fine, too. We’re pretty relaxed about that prospect down here really.

    I’m not relaxed. Alberta has no seaports. Do we want the Bolivia of Canada?

    No seaports?  Uh oh, we don’t want THEM invading Ukraine TOO!

    • #7
  8. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    John H. (View Comment):

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Or just remain independent. That would be fine, too. We’re pretty relaxed about that prospect down here really.

    I’m not relaxed. Alberta has no seaports. Do we want the Bolivia of Canada?

    No we’d have to invade BC…Maybe take (at minimum) the northern half or 2/3rd of BC… Kitimat is an ice free deep water port.. Oil and LNG terminals are already built or are proposed to be built there… Insist on double hull tankers to keep the eco nuts happy, and everything will work out fine.

    Yes, I think we should remain independent. Its one thing to go through a traumatic divorce, and then jump straight into another relationship – that usually doesnt work well.

    • #8
  9. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Some years ago, I met a girl at a bar in Idaho.  I asked if she was Canadian.

    She said, “No, I’m from Alberta.”

    I laughed.

    She didn’t.

    • #9
  10. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    I worked with a lady from Sous-Saint-Marie.  She told me that there are two types of Canadians:  

    French Canadians.

    And Canadians who hate French Canadians.  

    • #10
  11. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I worked with a lady from Sous-Saint-Marie. She told me that there are two types of Canadians:

    French Canadians.

    And Canadians who hate French Canadians.

    I worked with a lady from Sous-Saint-Marie

    Jeez, Dr. B, did you have to re-ignite the SSM wars? ;-)

    • #11
  12. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    People my age in the US remember Charles de Gaulle’s “Vive le Quebec libre!” and that around 1970, Canadian politics briefly turned violent, but not much else. Not many Americans can state the Meech Lake Agreement in 300 words or less. 

    But yeah, we’re fond of the whole place. We hope for the best, however you guys define it up there. 

    • #12
  13. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    People my age in the US remember Charles de Gaulle’s “Vive le Quebec libre!” and that around 1970, Canadian politics briefly turned violent, but not much else. Not many Americans can state the Meech Lake Agreement in 300 words or less.

    But yeah, we’re fond of the whole place. We hope for the best, however you guys define it up there.

    Most Canadian could tell you whats in our constitution, let alone what the Meech Lake Agreements were about… No matter how many words you gave them…

    Sault Ste Marie … Unless you’re making a fat joke…

    • #13
  14. Postmodern Hoplite Coolidge
    Postmodern Hoplite
    @PostmodernHoplite

    Two options for Alberta’s access to global maritime trade are Lewiston, ID  and Duluth, MN. Neither is ideal, but my guess is both are better options to invading and taking British Columbia. (Ottawa may shrug its shoulders and say, “eh?” to Alberta’s departure, but there’s no way they’d give up any of BC without a fight.)

    I’m a bit embarrassed that I had no appreciation of this issue until now. Is there an emerging degree of separatism, a “proto-Albertan” national identity that may grow strong enough to seek independence?

    • #14
  15. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    It’s an interesting idea.  The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession?  Are they capable?

    • #15
  16. Brian Clendinen Member
    Brian Clendinen
    @BrianClendinen

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    • #16
  17. ctlaw Coolidge
    ctlaw
    @ctlaw

    If Alberta left Canada, would BC remain or join the PRC?

    • #17
  18. OccupantCDN Coolidge
    OccupantCDN
    @OccupantCDN

    Postmodern Hoplite (View Comment):

    Two options for Alberta’s access to global maritime trade are Lewiston, ID and Duluth, MN. Neither is ideal, but my guess is both are better options to invading and taking British Columbia. (Ottawa may shrug its shoulders and say, “eh?” to Alberta’s departure, but there’s no way they’d give up any of BC without a fight.)

    I’m a bit embarrassed that I had no appreciation of this issue until now. Is there a growing degree of separatism, a “proto-Albertan” national identity that may grow strong enough to seek independence?

    I think a lot of people are willing to explore the option as a negotiating tactic – much like Quebec has for the last 50 years. Which maybe good enough, to get the reforms we need.

    Ports shouldn’t be that much of a sticking point. Perhaps we’ll just claim everything West and North of Thunder Bay Ontario is the Republic of Alberta that gives us 2 Atlantic ports and 3 (at least) Pacific ports…

    The problem is that Churchill Manitoba is iced up every winter… That problem will not be going away – arctic sea ice has actually been expanding since 1970…

     

    • #18
  19. Barfly Member
    Barfly
    @Barfly

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):
    Sault Ste Marie … Unless you’re making a fat joke…

    Filing “Sous Ste Marie” for future use.

    • #19
  20. GrannyDude Member
    GrannyDude
    @GrannyDude

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    People my age in the US remember Charles de Gaulle’s “Vive le Quebec libre!” and that around 1970, Canadian politics briefly turned violent, but not much else. Not many Americans can state the Meech Lake Agreement in 300 words or less.

    But yeah, we’re fond of the whole place. We hope for the best, however you guys define it up there.

     I know what I know about Canada (other than Old Quebec City) from reading the novels of a Jewish Canadian writer, Mordechai Richler forty (yikes) years ago. I was a big fan (for some reason?) when I was 18-19.

    Four years later, pregnant with my first child, I binge-read Milan Kundera and other samizdat writers. 

    Let’s face it, I’ve always been weird. 

    • #20
  21. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    • #21
  22. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Stad (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    A few years ago, California made noises about seceding from the Union. Most of the support for the movement came from outside of California. 

    • #22
  23. Dr. Bastiat Member
    Dr. Bastiat
    @drbastiat

    Django (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    A few years ago, California made noises about seceding from the Union. Most of the support for the movement came from outside of California.

    They’ve got my vote.

    • #23
  24. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    A few years ago, California made noises about seceding from the Union. Most of the support for the movement came from outside of California.

    They’ve got my vote.

    We have to make sure they think it’s their idea, otherwise they would refuse to leave us.

    • #24
  25. Sisyphus Member
    Sisyphus
    @Sisyphus

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    A few years ago, California made noises about seceding from the Union. Most of the support for the movement came from outside of California.

    They’ve got my vote.

    We have to make sure they think it’s their idea, otherwise they would refuse to leave us.

    The people should secede, the real estate is good.

    • #25
  26. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Sisyphus (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    Brian Clendinen (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    It’s an interesting idea. The question is, would the rest of Canada use military force to stop a secession? Are they capable?

    Canada is a Federation. Its in their constiution. Alberta vollonteered to be part of Canada why could they not leave? But the liberal actually following the Constitution is another story.

    Well, the southern states “volunteered” to be part of the Constitutional union, and look what happened when they decided to leave . . .

    But seriously, there should never be any entities, laws, or agreements to join that cannot be undone, even if there’s no mechanism built into the system.

    A few years ago, California made noises about seceding from the Union. Most of the support for the movement came from outside of California.

    They’ve got my vote.

    We have to make sure they think it’s their idea, otherwise they would refuse to leave us.

    The people should secede, the real estate is good.

    The constant drumbeat was that they were the seventh largest economy on Earth, that they gave far more to the Feds than they received, that they were the standard-bearers for diversity and equity and . . . whatever the current buzzwords were. Their attitude reminded me of the old headline in the London Times: “Fog in the Channel; Continent cut off.

    • #26
  27. Macho Grande' Coolidge
    Macho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    OccupantCDN (View Comment):

    John H. (View Comment):

    Hartmann von Aue (View Comment):

    Or just remain independent. That would be fine, too. We’re pretty relaxed about that prospect down here really.

    I’m not relaxed. Alberta has no seaports. Do we want the Bolivia of Canada?

    No we’d have to invade BC…Maybe take (at minimum) the northern half or 2/3rd of BC… Kitimat is an ice free deep water port.. Oil and LNG terminals are already built or are proposed to be built there… Insist on double hull tankers to keep the eco nuts happy, and everything will work out fine.

    Yes, I think we should remain independent. Its one thing to go through a traumatic divorce, and then jump straight into another relationship – that usually doesnt work well.

    Boy, you’ve got a lot to learn about choosing a solid path of self-destruction.  :-)

    • #27
  28. Macho Grande' Coolidge
    Macho Grande'
    @ChrisCampion

    Dr. Bastiat (View Comment):

    I worked with a lady from Sous-Saint-Marie. She told me that there are two types of Canadians:

    French Canadians.

    And Canadians who hate French Canadians.

    I’m originally from Vermont, and lived about 40 minutes from the Canadian border.  I dated a Canadian from Quebec, and yes, the above is largely true.  

    And then I moved to North Carolina, met a different Canadian from Ontario, and married her.

    In the same way that Texas is very different from, say, Washington State, Canada is a really gigantic country and outside of the major cities it’s not what you would describe as densely populated.  But the same sets of differing views that exist in the US exist in Canada, and I only pretend to understand them in the slightest.

     

    • #28
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