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The Real ID thing
I just heard about this innovation from Homeland Security. A friend of mine who lives in Oregon wrote about his wife having to get a “Real ID” at a cost of $60. After reading his post on our personal website, I looked it up. Apparently, without a passport, you cannot fly domestically if you do not have a Real ID issued by Homeland Security or a specially marked driver’s license. Does that do for you what it did for me? It reminds me of the movies in which Gestapo agents stop random people on the street and ask for their “papers”.
I understand the reason for it, but it does smack me as a move towards a police state. One can only thank the jacka$$es who allowed millions of undocumented aliens to enter and remain in our country over the last four years. Fortunately, I have a valid passport, so applying for one of these instruments won’t be necessary, but it isn’t hard to see this as the beginning of a very different country than the one I grew up in. How do you feel about it?
Published in General
Hate the very idea of it. It’s complete malevolent duplicity and insulting about it. NH is a late but now conforming state and I’ll use my global entry card instead. Or passport, whichever expires later. I’ll also continue to drive instead of flying whenever possible – the rest of flying is awful and getting awful-er daily.
Proving we are an unserious country, this was passed in 2005.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act
Oregon was the second to last state to implement it for their driver’s licenses in 2020:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_ID_Act#State_certifications
As I recall, this whole “Real ID” thing came about as California began issuing driver licenses and ID’s to anybody, without requiring any proof of anything. In other words, driver licenses, etc. became virtually worthless as useful ID’s.
My thinking is that these ideas came in a sequence after 9/11 along with the Patriotic Act and the breakup and reorganization of various law enforcement functions and the creation of Homeland Security.
I do not have a problem with “Real ID.” Without more, I do not see it as leading to ubiquitous “show your papers.”
That is my recollection too. Some state IDs became worthless as true identification because the states issued them to anyone.
“Real ID” has been required for several years to conduct certain business on federal government premises (where ID is required to enter secured buildings).
For a long time at U.S. / Canada border crossing points in New York state a person did not need a passport, relying on driver’s license alone. But after New York joined California in issuing driver’s licenses without verification, the U.S. border patrol process could no longer rely on driver’s license as presumptively indicating legal authorization to be in the United States.
When I got a new driver’s license in 2018 (after an interstate move) the “Real ID” was the normal driver’s license application process. It is not an extra process nor extra cost.
Sounds like you’re saying “I’m glad the government has all of my information by getting a passport, so I don’t have to give the government all of my information to get a Real ID.”
Those “papers” referred to in old movies, would often/mostly have been like a passport.
Exactly the same way you do: it reminds me of a police state, like the Gestapo asking to see the papers of someone who is minding his own business, in the absence of any suspicion.
It is certainly a step toward the police state.
I expect that Trump would defend it as a necessary step toward the police state.
No doubt, it has the potential of identifying people engaged in Federal crimes or warfare against the US.
But I weigh that against the near-inevitable threat of it leading to the next step. Of the potential for Federal Government abuse of this precedent of having this novel power to use its monopoly on the legal use of against the people.
It’s the Feds requiring States (who may or may not be rigorous in implementation) to require citizens to provide information for private air transport (I don’t think trains or buses require?) when such id already exists and said Feds may waive the requirement when it suits them (like for illegal persons and other non-citizens traveling under Federal sponsorships) that aggravates me. The Feds don’t have a stellar reputation for keeping personal information private and using it for singular purposes as it is, so I’m skeptical of any stated benign higher purpose for this.
Tinfoil-hat nonsense. You’re not “minding your own business,” you’re requesting to board a means of transportation for which, unfortunately, security measures dictate your identity must be verified.
When you show an ID to vote, are you “minding your own business”? If you don’t want one, by all means don’t get one, and you agree to not participate in an activity for which it’s required. That’s your choice, but please can we all stop with the Gestapo/show-me-your-papers hyperbole?
It seems to me that when someone chooses to use a pseudonym to post on a site like this one that person might be a bit more concerned about the hyperbole causing paranoia.
My concern about “Real ID” is the degree of diligence done by the issuing agencies in determining the documents’ validity. It’s easy to forge documents showing your supposed residence address, and I can’t imagine that issuing agencies have access to the plethora of utilities, companies, etc. so the documents can be checked. I know of no central, easily – accessible database of birth certificates, and they can be forged, too. Granted, it would be harder to produce convincing forgeries of “raised seal” birth certificates, but far from impossible.
I have the same concerns about passports. Birth certificates are required of course, but see above.
Here’s another question: the motivation for Real ID was some states rendering their ID’s pretty much worthless. The new process forced states, as much as possible, to require proof of citizenship, etc. I’m not aware of anything in the “Real ID” laws have created any sort of central database.
I have a Real Id drivers license. It took 15 minutes at the DMV. Surprisingly, no brown shirts have showed up at my door, I haven’t been tracked by unmarked cars, and the black helicopters have yet to materialize. Police state sycophants have, however, said the program has substantially cut down on the minor industry of illegal aliens and crooks buying phony drivers licenses, which was a real problem in the state. But, that’s what they say.
Sick burn, Eugene! Right, because no one else here has anything other than their actual picture and real name as their handle.
My name is Richard Terrell and I live in Alexandria, VA. The government has known all about me since I walked in the AF Academy almost 40 years ago, and subsequently during my 22 years of USAF service, multiple security clearance investigations, and 20 years of service now in the DoD IC. Anything else, Eugene? Nice try.
Just swell. Why shouldn’t I hate government?
Having said that I have to hurry up and get one of those damn things so maybe it isn’t that big of a deal.
It wasn’t that long ago that I heard that they have produced so few of those that they know that airport travel is going to grind to a halt.
Apparently the We Really Mean It This Time deadline is May 5, and a lot of people still haven’t gotten the message yet.
That’s literally what I heard, but I’ve only heard it once and I’ve barely heard anything about this deadline.
The TSA site says there are other ways if you arrive with the wrong stuff.
It doesn’t bother me. Showing ID to vote, board a plane, or cash a check? No problem.
Gestapo-police state? No.
(Little known grim fact: “Gestapo” was coined by a post office clerk from the first letters of “Secret State Police”.)
I’ve had a real ID since 2023. No problems have occurred. The topic is a yawner.
Regarding items 10 and 13, I maintain my anonymity on Ricochet for fear that a leftist administration may impose a cost on conservatives. The way I was treated on Facebook 2014-15 (no longer a member) and the behavior of the Biden administration show that this is not paranoia.
Not that it would be difficult to figure out who I am from what I post.
Hasn’t the Real ID been in effect for at least three years?
It’s actually been around since not too long after 9/11, and partly for that reason. But it’s been extended so many times, it’s easy to think it’s more recent.
Now make it a requirement to vote in national elections.
Boom.
I know that you know there is no such thing as a national election in America. We do have state elections for federal offices (the Senate) and we have state legislatures and some state constitutions that govern the selection and certification of Electors for the Electoral College that then vote for the President and Vice-President.
I live in Oregon:
I’m in no hurry to get Real ID. I’ve been fingerprinted for the USAF and then again for my background investigation when I passed all the exams and was offered employment as a police officer. The info required for the Real ID is not anything that isn’t already in any number of data bases.
Just as a side note police officers do not accept a social security card as ID. No picture and they do not have access to the social security data base.
And yet, I’ve seen a number of examples where police expect people to give them their SSN, a phone number… None of which is actually required by law.
I have no idea why they would all they need is photo ID. I had traffic stops where someone did not have their driver’s license. I would accept any ID that had their photo, employee’s badge for example and on one stop I accepted a Costco card.
The Real-ID requirement was instituted 20 years ago (2005) Congress, as is its wont, dallied around about enforcing it. But they have been telling people for the last 10 years that the deadline is coming. It’s a little late to be having the vapors.
A lot of states implemented it quite some time ago. My last drivers license in Florida had it. Frankly, I don’t have a problem with people having to prove who they are when getting a drivers license. And if we didn’t have a problem with people having to show their licenses to fly, why are we having a problem with the licenses having to be accurate?
We just got our Georgia licenses yesterday and all we had to do was bring a passport or birth certificate along with the other stuff they have always required.
There are many more important things to worry about these days than the Real-ID.
Doubtful. At the beginning of 2024, the Feds estimated that about 56% of ID credentials in circulation complied with Real-ID. This is credentials in circulation, not IDs used by flying passengers. The TSA said last week that 80% of travelers have been going through security checkpoints with Real-IDs or approved alternatives.
A friend of mine had grandparents who lived in Germany during WWII. He somehow ended up with their “papers.” The “papers” were genealogy documents, showing whether you did or did not have any Jewish blood.
By law, a law enforcement officer must have probable cause in order to stop a person and ask for identification. It doesn’t necessarily take much to amount to probable cause, but if anything comes of it, he must be able to articulate the probable cause that led to the contact. A “”hunch” won’t fly. In other words, we are still a long way in this country from just willy nilly stopping people and asking for their ID’s. I’m not going to claim that it never happens, but I can tell you I never did it, and I can state with confidence that none of those fellow LEO’s with whom I had contact did, either.