Instant Inflation

 

Put some items in my Amazon cart last night, didn’t check out. Wanted to see if I still wanted them in the clear unsparing light of day. Called up the cart tonight, and every item – USB cords, a sweatshirt, a power converter – had increased in price by a dollar. The presumption, I gather, is that the replacement cost of the items will be greater in the future. It makes me want to scour Amazon for everything made offshore that I know I will need, and buy it now before the price leaps up again.

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  1. TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'. Coolidge
    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'.
    @RobtGilsdorf

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    If we’re going to do Tariffs (a big if, although I will admit I’m much less of a free trade absolutist than I was in my youth), they need to come from an act of Congress, not from the whim of the Executive.

    True. This is a fake emergency that is being used to justify emergency powers. There is no emergency. Similar to the abuse of power under Covid. At worst, we have a small chronic problem being treated as an emergency to get around congress and the constitution.

    Yet another way Congress has failed to keep their own House in order. 

    • #121
  2. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

    I would imagine the administration will simply remove those tariffs then for Israel and Vietnam. That seems like a clerical error, easily fixed.

    Why would you think that?

    • #122
  3. Yarob Coolidge
    Yarob
    @Yarob

    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs… (View Comment):
    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book, but surely one reason to whomp up a big fat tariff is the joy of hanging out by the phone waiting for nations to call you up to talk you out of it using persuasive techniques like canceling the tariffs they have been using against you for decades. 

    Or watching television and seeing nations instantly match your cretinous tariffs with ones of their own. Oh, the joy! 

    • #123
  4. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs… (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

    I would imagine the administration will simply remove those tariffs then for Israel and Vietnam. That seems like a clerical error, easily fixed.

    Yes indeed.

    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book, but surely one reason to whomp up a big fat tariff is the joy of hanging out by the phone waiting for nations to call you up to talk you out of it using persuasive techniques like canceling the tariffs they have been using against you for decades.

    And fwiw, our nation was founded on a 5% tariff.

    Israel zeroed out their tariff BEFORE Trump imposed a tariff on them.

    • #124
  5. J Ro Member
    J Ro
    @JRo

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    The Ludwig von Mises Institute Is Right About Everything™

    Mises on Tariffs:

    “In enacting restrictive measures governments and parliaments have hardly ever been aware of the consequences of their meddling with business. Thus, they have blithely assumed that protective tariffs are capable of raising the nation’s standard of living, and they have stubbornly refused to admit the correctness of the economic teachings concerning the effects of protectionism. The economists’ condemnation of protectionism is irrefutable and free of any party bias. For the economists do not say that protection is bad from any preconceived point of view. They show that protection cannot attain those ends which the governments as a rule want to attain by resorting to it. They do not question the ultimate end of the government’s action; they merely reject the means chosen as inappropriate to realize the ends aimed at.”

    Pelosi on tariffs and trade deficit with PRC:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1907836058005295612

    • #125
  6. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    J Ro (View Comment):

    Pelosi on tariffs and trade deficit with PRC:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1907836058005295612

    This is really good. She makes two things obvious: #1 inflation is stupid, and God didn’t make us to live under these conditions. Maybe it works on some other planet, but it doesn’t work here.  #2 trading with the godless communist mafia is stupid. 

    • #126
  7. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    TBA, sometimes known as ‘Teebs… (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

    I would imagine the administration will simply remove those tariffs then for Israel and Vietnam. That seems like a clerical error, easily fixed.

    Yes indeed.

    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book, but surely one reason to whomp up a big fat tariff is the joy of hanging out by the phone waiting for nations to call you up to talk you out of it using persuasive techniques like canceling the tariffs they have been using against you for decades.

    And fwiw, our nation was founded on a 5% tariff.

    Israel zeroed out their tariff BEFORE Trump imposed a tariff on them.

    I’m not arguing with you. I am out of my depth on this issue.

    However, it appears to be a very complicated situation, and it may not have been a mistake. The Israelis removed their tariff on US imports to Israel only the day before Trump made this announcement so it is a fair assumption that Trump’s announcement is only the beginning of the negotiations that will be occurring over the next six months:

    After Israel fails to win reprieve from Trump’s tariffs, how hard will economy be hit? | The Times of Israel

    For another angle on this global tariff move by the Trump administration, see Larry Kudlow’s report here:

    Kudlow: The whole world is watching

    The cash-raising aspect of what Kudlow says about the tariffs is interesting in and of itself.

    I know everyone is ticked off at Trump about this, and I don’t blame them. It seemed to come out of nowhere.

    However, I am willing to wait. I have a feeling that this about raising revenue some other way than raising taxes, which would also fuel inflation and make people mad.

    Of all the unpleasant options available for a federal government that has been on a spending spree, maybe this looked like a good idea to the Trump administration. I don’t know, but I can’t help wondering.

    My instincts are telling me that Biden’s pandemic spending and his other spending have left us in a pretty big financial mess.

     

    • #127
  8. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    There is one unknown aspect of the tariffs that I will be interested to see. During the pandemic, many companies’ costs went very high. I heard a couple of commentators on Fox Business say at that time that the businesses were absorbing the increases to keep their prices stable.

    If the tariffs are collected when the goods cross the border rather than when the goods are sold, companies selling within the United States could, in theory, absorb the tariffs and stabilize their prices. That might work for a lot of them. They will lose some profits but not all of them.

    I’m not quite following your train of thought. Tariffs are imposed on the seller when they cross the border, not when they are sold to the consumer. And then how does the U.S. retailer absorb the price hike? Just by taking a financial hit for the benefit of patriotic Americans? That is asking a lot from millions of retailers, besides, what if the price hike is larger than their profit margin?

     

    The goods would go to the wholesalers who might reduce their prices a bit to absorb some of the new tariffs, leaving, say, only half of the tariffs for the retailers to absorb. That may be doable for businesses and work to the consumers’ advantage.

    Again, you are asking a minority group – wholesalers and retailers, to absorb the financial losses for the majority of the country. Something tells me that is going to meet with disturbing resistance!

    The other interesting response might be that the countries involved will eliminate the tariffs on U.S. goods being sold in their countries to (a) ensure their supply remains steady and (b) to get the tariffs removed on the goods they are trying to sell in the United States. In those situations, again, consumers won’t notice much of an increase, if any.

    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

     

    How about we have a tariff on Israel for as long as they had a tariff on us, and THEN drop it?  Fair is fair.

    • #128
  9. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    RufusRJones (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):
    I understand the theory, but I’d say that the past few decades haven’t proven it. And it’s ultimately probably not sustainable, but when it stops working it might easily hurt us the most.

    You’ve literally not made one specific point here. I will make it for you. We get stuff cheaper from overseas and then the federal reserve can’t accept this so they keep creating inflation. It’s stupid.

    kedavis (View Comment):
    We may not be able to get cheap gew-gaws from China, but China will still have the warships etc they’ve built with our money.

    Trading with the Chinese mafia is and was patently stupid. We can import deflation from anybody else that isn’t going to attack us.

    But if China is cheaper…

    Then we get the better of the deal………

    Does this “we” you keep speaking of include the people and communities devastated by loss of jobs to China?

    I think the “lost jobs” thing has been kind of a myth. The jobs that are supposedly lost to China have simply been exchanged for different jobs in the U.S. The U.S. has had some of the lowest unemployment numbers in the past ten years that we have ever had since they started measuring it. In fact we are in the midst of a 15-year shortage of workers. Just about anybody who wants a job can find one these days. What has caused the upheaval has been the radical shift of manufacturing to automated processes requiring fewer human beings, but creating more products. That puts a definite burden on those whose jobs were in the manufacturing industry, but whole new industries and other jobs have opened up to take their place.

    It can be difficult for many people to adapt, but they can learn new skills and take the jobs that are available, which many employers are desperate to fill. This process has been going on since the dawn of civilization, though the changes seem like they are happening faster now.

    It’s more complicated than that, which you should know. Just for one, there are a lot of open jobs for which there may not be nearly enough QUALIFIED workers. Because they require degrees in engineering or something, which many people don’t have, and which many people couldn’t get no matter how hard they tried.

    Engineering Market in the Detroit Metro Area truly sucks right now. I think you should look at LinkedIN , Glassdoor, Indeed and ZipRecruiter before making these blanket statements . There are a ton of qualified people out there, and a shortage of jobs. Many of the same listings are getting posted over and over again. You have no idea about what you are talking about. And guess what — many employers are instituting hiring freezes until the tariff spasm blows over.

    I’m sure there are a multitude of complicating factors.  Now-unemployed engineers in Detroit might love to move to LA or SF for an engineering job, but can they afford to?  et. al.  Including, for example, the risk of moving to a high-cost area for a job that might be sent to India shortly after.

    • #129
  10. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Knotwise the Poet (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Knotwise the Poet (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Knotwise the Poet (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Knotwise the Poet (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Knotwise the Poet (View Comment):

    Metalheaddoc (View Comment):

    Times like this…I wish I could download Thomas Sowell into my brain.

    Ask and ye shall receive.

    I saw that earlier today. But note that Sowell does NOT claim that ALL tariffs are ALWAYS bad ALL THE TIME.

    No, he does not claim that. However I do think his tone towards the current situation is one of deep concern and trepidation, not optimism, particularly given how broad and far-reaching these tariffs and how fickle Trump appears in making these rules/policies.

    What, you want Trump to put on tariffs and keep them on, regardless of the target maybe removing their tariffs?

    Otherwise you would consider Trump to be “fickle?”

    No, I’d be happy for him to take them off if others remove their tariffs. But I’d have rather we not gotten into this game of trade-war chicken in the first place.

    Sure, but, wouldn’t that depend more on THEM, than on US?

    Well, I guess if this triggers another recession we can all take solace knowing it’s the rest of the world’s fault, not ours.

    That would still mean that THIS didn’t really cause it; what THEY did, caused it.

    Or are you also one of those people who claims that Ukraine defending themselves, is what caused Russia to invade?

    Eh, I think Trump could have been more temperate and surgical in his approach to other countries’ tariffs, particularly in regards to countries that we have long been allies with. But I know that’s not really his style.

    If prices go up and stay up, I don’t think any argument you have about who’s really to blame for all this will dissuade the electorate from giving Congress back to the Democrats.

    Like the Democrats will do better.

    “And stay up” is a bit ambiguous too. As mentioned previously, the status quo has largely existed for decades. If people think 2 or 4 years is just too long to wait for a correction, once again, they deserve what they get, good and hard.

    So the American People should be punished for not wanting Tariff Idiocy? You want pain for the American People?

    Want has nothing to do with it.  But if they deserve it because of how they’ve voted for decades etc, how am I supposed to stop it?

    • #130
  11. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    TBA, sometimes known as ‘Teebs… (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

    I would imagine the administration will simply remove those tariffs then for Israel and Vietnam. That seems like a clerical error, easily fixed.

    Yes indeed.

    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book, but surely one reason to whomp up a big fat tariff is the joy of hanging out by the phone waiting for nations to call you up to talk you out of it using persuasive techniques like canceling the tariffs they have been using against you for decades.

    And fwiw, our nation was founded on a 5% tariff.

    Israel zeroed out their tariff BEFORE Trump imposed a tariff on them.

    I’m not arguing with you. I am out of my depth on this issue.

    However, it appears to be a very complicated situation, and it may not have been a mistake. The Israelis removed their tariff on US imports to Israel only the day before Trump made this announcement so it is a fair assumption that Trump’s announcement is only the beginning of the negotiations that will be occurring over the next six months:

    After Israel fails to win reprieve from Trump’s tariffs, how hard will economy be hit? | The Times of Israel

    For another angle on this global tariff move by the Trump administration, see Larry Kudlow’s report here:

    Kudlow: The whole world is watching

    The cash-raising aspect of what Kudlow says about the tariffs is interesting in and of itself.

    I know everyone is ticked off at Trump about this, and I don’t blame them. It seemed to come out of nowhere.

    However, I am willing to wait. I have a feeling that this about raising revenue some other way than raising taxes, which would also fuel inflation and make people mad.

    Of all the unpleasant options available for a federal government that has been on a spending spree, maybe this looked like a good idea to the Trump administration. I don’t know, but I can’t help wondering.

    My instincts are telling me that Biden’s pandemic spending and his other spending have left us in a pretty big financial mess.

    Only a slight correction to your thoughtful comment.  It was Trump and the Republican Congress who spent like  drunken sailors on Covid (something like $4 Trillion Dollars), not Biden.  Biden added his own outrageous spending to  the National Debt, but it wasn’t on Covid. 

    In fact, all along, I have held Trump in partial blame for causing the inflation of 2020 – Present.  He borrowed Four Trillion Dollars to put into the economy, much of it either cash payouts to people, many not even in our country, or simply embezzled by fraud.  Very little of it went into the medical field.  All this “free” money circulating around was bound to devalue our currency and cause inflation.

     

    • #131
  12. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    How about we have a tariff on Israel for as long as they had a tariff on us, and THEN drop it? Fair is fair.

    How about if we pay 15% more in taxes across the board to our Federal Gubmint for as long as Israel has been paying more than 50% in taxes to their government?  Fair is fair.

    • #132
  13. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m sure there are a multitude of complicating factors. Now-unemployed engineers in Detroit might love to move to LA or SF for an engineering job, but can they afford to? et. al. Including, for example, the risk of moving to a high-cost area for a job that might be sent to India shortly after.

    Throughout this entire thread you have been complaining that Americans are not capable of finding jobs, learning skills, owning homes, buying products, and now moving across the country.  I’m going to join-up with the Bangladesh version of Ricochet where they all think Americans are rich and powerful geniuses who control their own destiny and the world’s.

    • #133
  14. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    I’m sure there are a multitude of complicating factors. Now-unemployed engineers in Detroit might love to move to LA or SF for an engineering job, but can they afford to? et. al. Including, for example, the risk of moving to a high-cost area for a job that might be sent to India shortly after.

    Throughout this entire thread you have been complaining that Americans are not capable of finding jobs, learning skills, owning homes, buying products, and now moving across the country. I’m going to join-up with the Bangladesh version of Ricochet where they all think Americans are rich and powerful geniuses who control their own destiny and the world’s.

    Please elaborate kedavis

    • #134
  15. TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'. Coolidge
    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'.
    @RobtGilsdorf

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    TBA, sometimes known as ‘Teebs… (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    Well, that has been one of the biggest talking points of Trump supporters, and it sounds very reasonable and fair. However, before the Trump Tariffs were revealed on Tuesday, Israel announced it would drop every single tariff on products coming from the United States (their tariffs were insignificant to begin with), and Vietnam announced a drastic cut to its tariffs, also. Trump completely ignored this and slapped a 17% tariff on Israel and 46% tariff on Vietnam, thereby completely destroying the notion that these tariffs were meant to create free trade between our countries.

    I would imagine the administration will simply remove those tariffs then for Israel and Vietnam. That seems like a clerical error, easily fixed.

    Yes indeed.

    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book, but surely one reason to whomp up a big fat tariff is the joy of hanging out by the phone waiting for nations to call you up to talk you out of it using persuasive techniques like canceling the tariffs they have been using against you for decades.

    And fwiw, our nation was founded on a 5% tariff.

    Israel zeroed out their tariff BEFORE Trump imposed a tariff on them.

    I’m not arguing with you. I am out of my depth on this issue.

    However, it appears to be a very complicated situation, and it may not have been a mistake. The Israelis removed their tariff on US imports to Israel only the day before Trump made this announcement so it is a fair assumption that Trump’s announcement is only the beginning of the negotiations that will be occurring over the next six months:

    After Israel fails to win reprieve from Trump’s tariffs, how hard will economy be hit? | The Times of Israel

    For another angle on this global tariff move by the Trump administration, see Larry Kudlow’s report here:

    Kudlow: The whole world is watching

    The cash-raising aspect of what Kudlow says about the tariffs is interesting in and of itself.

    I know everyone is ticked off at Trump about this, and I don’t blame them. It seemed to come out of nowhere.

    However, I am willing to wait. I have a feeling that this about raising revenue some other way than raising taxes, which would also fuel inflation and make people mad.

    Of all the unpleasant options available for a federal government that has been on a spending spree, maybe this looked like a good idea to the Trump administration. I don’t know, but I can’t help wondering.

    My instincts are telling me that Biden’s pandemic spending and his other spending have left us in a pretty big financial mess.

    I’m as pro-Israel as the next man…ok, I’m a lot more pro-Israel than the next man. Nevertheless we have spent a lot of money and goods to help Israel in their (righteous) war with Palestine while spending a lot of money helping Ukraine in their defense against Russia. Trying to claw some of that back is…grasping. Or clawing. But we don’t have infinite money and do have trillions in debt. So while I’m not in favor of tariffs on our friends. But I can see the reasoning. And I can’t help but think that a lot of these tariffs are a wake-up call to say, “things can’t go on as they have been indefinitely,” or “let’s renegotiate how we do things instead of relying on decades old models and agreements.” 

    • #135
  16. Terence Smith Coolidge
    Terence Smith
    @TerrySmith

    While I think the president’s tariff scheme is an enormous mistake, My guess (ok my hope) is that the economic fallout may not quite as bad as some expect.  Mainly because services are now  over 75% of GDP, manufacturing about 10% and agriculture 1%.  In the years leading up to the trade war of the Great Depression services were 45-50% agriculture was maybe 20 25% and manufacturing 30% (source is Grok the AI chatbot and yes I know the figures don’t quite add up).  As far as I know, the tariffs are not applied to services  so the effect on cost of living and any retaliatory tariffs will not have as big of effect as the tariff percentages suggest.  It is worth mentioning that we currently have a huge trade surplus in services with the rest of the world.  Businesses will adjust though there will be collateral damage (sorry farmers). 

    The big damage is to our reputation throughout the world.  Once damaged it will be hard to repair. We certainly are now seen as  unreliable. Canada has already said it was a mistake to economically integrate so thoroughly with the U.S. Europe is reconsidering big ticket weapons purchases from the U.S for the same reason. Since we are treating friendly countries as adversaries they might do the same to us. It’s obvious to me that quiet diplomacy should precede public threats and hostile actions. 

     

     

      

    • #136
  17. Yarob Coolidge
    Yarob
    @Yarob

    kedavis (View Comment):
    How about we have a tariff on Israel for as long as they had a tariff on us, and THEN drop it?  Fair is fair.

    Ah, so this reciprocity and equalization nonsense is the bs we all knew it to be. At last, a confession!

    • #137
  18. Yarob Coolidge
    Yarob
    @Yarob

    Steven Seward (View Comment):
    In fact, all along, I have held Trump in partial blame for causing the inflation of 2020 – Present. 

    Trump 1 saw the national debt increase by $8 trillion, a 25% jump, and this is the guy we’re supposed to trust with the economy. 

    • #138
  19. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Terence Smith (View Comment):
    Europe is reconsidering big ticket weapons purchases from the U.S for the same reason.

    I hear they can get Russian kit for cheap. Delivery will take a while.

    • #139
  20. Yarob Coolidge
    Yarob
    @Yarob

    TBA, sometimes known as ‘Teebs… (View Comment):
    I don’t wanna get all art-of-the-dealy here, not least because I’ve never read the book

    If you wish to know about The Art of the Deal, you should check with its author, Tony Schwartz. I doubt that Trump, a man with no known interest in literature, art, sculpture, music, opera, dance, drama, or any subject other than golf (the “sport” at which he is a notorious cheat), has ever read it.

    • #140
  21. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Only a slight correction to your thoughtful comment.  It was Trump and the Republican Congress who spent like  drunken sailors on Covid (something like $4 Trillion Dollars), not Biden.  Biden added his own outrageous spending to  the National Debt, but it wasn’t on Covid. 

    In fact, all along, I have held Trump in partial blame for causing the inflation of 2020 – Present.  He borrowed Four Trillion Dollars to put into the economy, much of it either cash payouts to people, many not even in our country, or simply embezzled by fraud.  Very little of it went into the medical field.  All this “free” money circulating around was bound to devalue our currency and cause inflation.

    I’m curious where you got that figure for Trump’s covid spending. According to one analysis by the Heritage Foundation, Biden outspent Trump by quite a bit:

    Projection is blaming someone else for your own bad behavior.

    We saw a classic case of projection in Thursday’s presidential debate, when President Biden—who is overseeing annual budget deficits of $2 trillion—asserted that his predecessor, Donald Trump, added more to the federal debt than anyone else.

    It’s part of the latest leftist argument: that if Trump wins the election, he will run deficits twice as large as Biden would.

    Debate moderator Jake Tapper joined the chorus of federal finance falsehoods when he claimed Trump had “approved $8.4 trillion in new debt,” while Biden’s actions will increase the debt by (merely) $4.3 trillion over a decade.

    Tapper was referencing a recent report by the left-leaning Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, which twisted and turned the debt statistics in every contortionary way it could to reach its incredible conclusion.

    CRFB, by the way, is a group that opposed the successful Trump tax reform in 2017—yet supported several of Biden’s multitrillion-dollar spending bills.

    It’s not nonpartisan, but a front group for the policies of the political left.

    The fundamental flaw of the CRFB analysis is revealed if we examine the projections of the Congressional Budget Office.

    The CBO’s projection for 2021, the last fiscal year of the Trump administration, forecast the federal debt to reach about $35.3 trillion by 2031, that is, over the next decade.

    Today, 3½ years into the Biden administration, the latest estimates from the CBO project the debt will hit over $42.5 trillion by 2031.

    Furthermore, Trump’s spending was understandable given the nature and newness of the pandemic. He had to deal with the initial panic that had somewhat evaporated by the time Biden took office. In addition, it is hard to sort out the federal spending for that period into pandemic and non-pandemic, business-as-usual spending. 

    Wherever you got your figures may be more accurate or may be a different interpretation of the spending during pandemic than what I recall or what I’m looking at this moment. I’m sure the numbers are credible to you in your source, I know you well enough to know you are citing a respectable source. Nevertheless, I do believe those pandemic numbers are open to interpretation, especially given the accounting irregularities that the DOGE effort has uncovered. 

    Trump owns whatever pain and suffering he has caused. But I think he did a really good job managing the pandemic given what he knew at the time. I think Biden coasted for a year or two on the Trump administration’s work during the first year of it. 

    And then Biden went really went nuts. 

    At least that’s how I saw it and still do. 

     

     

    • #141
  22. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Steven Seward (View Comment):

    Only a slight correction to your thoughtful comment. It was Trump and the Republican Congress who spent like drunken sailors on Covid (something like $4 Trillion Dollars), not Biden. Biden added his own outrageous spending to the National Debt, but it wasn’t on Covid.

    In fact, all along, I have held Trump in partial blame for causing the inflation of 2020 – Present. He borrowed Four Trillion Dollars to put into the economy, much of it either cash payouts to people, many not even in our country, or simply embezzled by fraud. Very little of it went into the medical field. All this “free” money circulating around was bound to devalue our currency and cause inflation.

    I’m curious where you got that figure for Trump’s covid spending. According to one analysis by the Heritage Foundation, Biden outspent Trump by quite a bit:

    According to the Heritage Foundation, as of April 20, 2020, Trump & Company put forth three Covid bills totaling more than $2 Trillion. (they don’t give the exact figure).  I don’t recall if they ran through another bill after that or not (I’m too busy to go seriously hunting).

    As far as overall spending, Trump did add about 7-8 Trillion Dollars to the National Debt while Biden added a very similar amount, though his tally is not quite complete yet.  Here is the source where I got a screenshot of this chart fragment.  I circled the critical year where Trump spent a total of nearly $5 Trillion, most of it on Covid.  That year alone spiked the National Debt by over 18%.

     

    • #142
  23. Steven Seward Member
    Steven Seward
    @StevenSeward

    MarciN (View Comment):

    Furthermore, Trump’s spending was understandable given the nature and newness of the pandemic.

    I disagree.  I think Trump and the Republicans in Congress fell into  the same mass-hysterical panic that the rest of the world did (with the exception of Sweden and a few other countries).  They didn’t need to spend all that money and they didn’t need to recommend locking down all public activities.  There were responsible scientists all over the place giving good information that were ignored by Fauci and the other bureaucrats in the government.  Pandemics were not new.

    He had to deal with the initial panic that had somewhat evaporated by the time Biden took office. In addition, it is hard to sort out the federal spending for that period into pandemic and non-pandemic, business-as-usual spending.

    Wherever you got your figures may be more accurate or may be a different interpretation of the spending during pandemic than what I recall or what I’m looking at this moment. I’m sure the numbers are credible to you in your source, I know you well enough to know you are citing a respectable source. Nevertheless, I do believe those pandemic numbers are open to interpretation, especially given the accounting irregularities that the DOGE effort has uncovered.

    Trump owns whatever pain and suffering he has caused. But I think he did a really good job managing the pandemic given what he knew at the time. I think Biden coasted for a year or two on the Trump administration’s work during the first year of it.

    And then Biden went really went nuts.

    At least that’s how I saw it and still do.

     

    • #143
  24. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    pUbLIc hEaLtH hAs eaRNeD tHe tRUst oF maNkInD

    • #144
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