Ricochet is the best place on the internet to discuss the issues of the day, either through commenting on posts or writing your own for our active and dynamic community in a fully moderated environment. In addition, the Ricochet Audio Network offers over 40 original podcasts with new episodes released every day.
Memo to Zelenskyy: Study Korea
Dear Volodymyr,
Does any of this sound familiar? The bad guys, North Korea, invaded the good guys, South Korea. To stop the bad guys from winning, the Americans intervened. Unfortunately, just as the Americans were about to eliminate the retreating North Korean army, the adjoining super bad guys, China, intervened and pushed the Americans back. The Americans had all the military advantages except one — China had an unlimited number of soldiers. The result: a bloody stalemate.
North Korea wanted to fight to the death. South Korea wanted to fight to the death. China was willing to fight forever as long as China itself was unthreatened. America, however, wanted the killing to stop.
So, America told the South Koreans it had to agree to a ceasefire or America would leave. America told the Chinese that they had to agree to a ceasefire or else things would escalate and put China itself at risk. (The North Koreans had no choice but to do whatever China said to do.)
There was no permanent and lasting peace agreement. The bad guys were not punished. Justice was not done. Not only was a country divided, families were divided. South Koreans were made to watch as their Northern relatives were subjected to horrific oppression.
But, the killing stopped. America stayed behind to hold the line. America also assisted in the reconstruction of a devastated South.
Seventy years later, still no peace agreement. The North continues to threaten and oppress. America continues to hold the line. South Korea has become fabulously wealthy and successful, while the North has become one of the poorest places on Earth.
To quote The Rolling Stones, you can’t always get what you want, but you just might get what you need.
Best wishes,
G-Pub
Published in Foreign Policy
Nah, Russia is running low on soldiers that Putin dares to use. North Koreans rather than Russians were used for its most recent success. Trump should send American soldiers and weapons to Russia to help the Norks kill more Ukrainians. That’s how you make peace. When all the Ukrainians are dead, then there is peace. Give peace a chance!
And besides, the Korea solution would mean NATO/US boots on the ground in Ukraine. Putin would not want that. It might make him unhappy, and nobody wants Putin to be unhappy.
Imagine that South Korea had had very valuable mineral deposits…and Eisenhower had decided *not* to leave US forces in S Korea after the ceasefire, but to strike a deal for mining concessions, resulting in a few hundred or maybe a few thousand American civilians resident there.
Would North Korea have attacked again, or would they have been deterred by the likelihood of killing Americans and triggering a violent American response?
To say this explicitly, The US could threaten the existence of China because the Korean War ended (1953) a decade before China’s first atomic weapon test (1964).
There is no equivalent power advantage of Zelenskyy’s patron (USA) over the Regional countering power (Russia). Not locally in Eastern Europe.
I do like the analogy positing Ukraine as the original attacker. I have believed that since 2022.
I must have missed the Ukrainian invasion of Russia in 2022.
Good argument, but I think you overstretch the analogy. NK had already demonstrated a will to fight the US. It’s hard to think that Russia would be willing to FA with US citizens in the way, especially under PDTv2. So I don’t think that’s a valid counter to the idea that an economic outpost is the best security for Uk, precisely because it’s an economic advance for the west.
You did. Directly attacked Russia toward Crimea to take Sevastopol. Indirectly attacked Russia by attacking separatist oblasts. Then the Russians crossed the border in the north and the Ukrainians turned their army around to rush north and defend their capital. Not the popular theory, yet.
So in the Korean war =to=> Ukraine War analogy given in OP:
Russian forces invaded and annexed Crimea in February and March of 2014. Separatists were supported by Russian artillery, missile strikes, and tank movements from Russian forces border crossings, to include the downing of MH-17. Unless you want to believe that coal miners were driving those tanks as well as conducting sophisticated missile and anti-aircraft strikes.
One can disdain Zelensky but twisting the facts to absolve Russia from their responsibility in this war comes from Russian propaganda.
As terrible as it sounds every dead Russian soldier is one who will not reach the border of Poland, Finland, Norway, and the Baltic States.
First you have to work your theory ahead of the one that the war started when Ukraine dropped a nuke on Red Square and Russia had no choice but to retaliate. When you make your theory more popular than that one, then yours can move up the ladder.
so you’re saying there’s a chance!
so who conquered crimea in 1995 then?
half of the pre 2014 Ukraine military ended up on the separatist side of the civil war. many of them were probably coal miners.
The Russians did what they did. Why they did it is where the disagreement comes in.
Absolutely! If people can believe the CIA coup theory, there’s a chance for every other theory as well. :-)
I’m in danger of becoming a sea lion on this thread. I’ll stop now at this moment of warm agreement.
What we have are Euros and Zelensky who want us to send weapons, money, and troops but shut up and let them run things. This is Biden’s mess, not Trump’s. Also, Trump told the Euros to build up their defenses. They didn’t listen. Trump has to clean up their mess.
United States investors are one of – if not the – largest foreign investors in South Korea right now, and it doesn’t stop North Korea from making beligerant threats against South Korea or the USA.
Wishing death upon millions in order to prevent a hypothetical scenario from occurring doesn’t just sound terrible. It is terrible. Actually, “terrible” is too mild. It is utterly monstrous.
Here’s an analogous statement, the monstrosity of which you might wish to mull over:
“As terrible as it sounds, every dead n***** is one who will not get a chance to rape a white woman.”
See what I mean?
America fought to regain the pre war boundary, then agreed to the cease fire.
There are no Americans dying.
And there is no “China” ready to fight to the last chinese for RuZZia.
The dead Russian soldiers were engaged in a war against civilians. Their deaths are part of the planning. Your hypothetical n*****s are innocent civilians just minding their own business.
Utterly BS attempt at distracting from the grotesque nature of wishing death upon people based on what one imagines they might do in the future.
Have it your way, but this ain’t Burger King.
Bluster and threats, yes. Another invasion with an army, no.
You two are arguing over each other, One is upset over that Russian troops have engaged in unspeakable acts against civilians. The other sees young men forcefully pressed into the Russian military against their wishes and sent to a meat grinder war. These men are no different than the Russian athletes we love on our hockey teams, the Russian dissidents who have made it to the US and now entertain us with their comic routines or political cartoons, the ice skaters we love to watch. You are both reacting to the ugliness of war.
You’re replying to a third guy: me, who’s the one pointing out that wishing the death of people based on what one imagines they might do in the future is monstrous.
You are half the argument, they one the other half. Do you disagree with my comment?
Before I can agree or disagree, I need to know: What do you think my “half” of the argument is?
The latter.
Elaborate, please.
Why would you wish this on the people of Ukraine?
That is not a good ending.
We’ve seen throughout the world what the victors do in such situations many times over in the past fifty years.
We should be smarter now.
We can’t change the past. But we can learn from it and do better in the future.
There’s a case to be made that this is Obama’s mess, not Biden’s. The lame US response to Russia’s invasion of Crimea in 2014 undoubtedly convinced the evil Russian midget that the US was a paper tiger and he could do what he liked with the world order. Trump cleaning up the mess seems to consist of indulging his hatred of Z and Ukranians generally and preemptively giving Putin whatever he thinks the latter might demand. Even now Trump is “seriously considering” new sanctions on Russia instead of actually imposing them. Whoop-de-do!