The US Must Pull Out of Germany/Europe

 

It is abundantly clear that the US-NATO umbrella over Europe has achieved the complete infantilization of the Continent. Lacking the need to do anything serious in terms of core national interest (i.e., defense), Europe has entirely lost the plot.

There is no longer any justification for propping up Germany, or any nation that refuses to invest in its own national defense. Beyond that: the US should not be defending illiberal countries that arrest people for “mean tweets.” If the US pulls out, Europe gets the very sharp shock that it needs if it is going to wake up, defend against Russia, reduce the Nanny State, and deport Muslims.

Truly: the US should leave Europe – for its own good.

Published in General
This post was promoted to the Main Feed at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 90 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):
    Has Russia ever conquered a European country? I know the Germans did and the Russians filled in the vacuum after the US beat Germany, but has Russia ever expanded on their own?

    From 1772 to 1795 Russia participated in the three Partitions of Poland with the Hapsburg Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia that eliminated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    Is this what you think recurs if America is out of it?

    Nah. They’ll gobble up the Baltic States first.

    And does that threaten America or Europe?

    If threatens cruise ship itineraries. The rest is a rerun.

    Rerun of a really unpleasant movie, at least for the conquered.

    • #31
  2. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    She (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):
    As Britain gets less British, France gets less French, Germany gets less German, and as–it appears–there’s very little backbone or will to push back in any form of nationalist self-interest other than perhaps in Italy and Hungary, I’m not sure why the US should underwrite so much of Europe’s fiscal stability either.

    Today’s idiocy**:

    “Churchill portraits removed from Parliament after Labour’s victory”

    “Drawings, prints and photographs of Second World War leader were taken down following arrival of new MPs in Westminster”

    “Images of other great Britons, including the Duke of Wellington, were also removed from display after Labour’s victory.”

    “The collection was audited for possible links to slavery and racism following the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020. The audit was carried out by the Speaker’s advisory committee on works of art, which produced a dossier of artworks depicting historical figures deemed to be controversial.”

    “Days after the July 4 election, five portraits of William Gladstone, the four-time liberal prime minister, were taken down. Gladstone’s father had owned slaves and was compensated financially following the abolition of slavery.”

    “At the same time, five images of Oliver Cromwell were also removed. He had been listed in the audit as someone who ‘supported slavery, had financial or family interests in the transatlantic slave trade and slavery’.”

    “Although William Wilberforce was a famous campaigner for the abolition of the slave trade, a portrait of him was also removed.”

    “A portrait of Lord Salisbury, the Victorian prime minister, was taken down, along with artwork depicting the poet John Milton, Charles I, and a painting of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.”

    Because nothing says “we’re proud of our history and who we are as a nation” like obliterating any trace of, or any ability to have a rational discussion about, the ups and downs that got us to where we are today. It is quite funny, in some sense, I suppose, that almost five years after the 2020 BLM mania in the US, and after so much of the movement has been exposed for what it was, that there are those in the UK–which was regularly deemed one of the least racist countries in the world before all this nonsense started–who still willingly and enthusiastically embrace and promote it.

    This follows the widely-reported stories that one of the first things Brave Knight (because he is one) Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer did when he moved into Downing Street was remove the portraits of William Shakespeare, Elizabeth I, Sir Walter Raleigh and…wait for it…Margaret Thatcher because “[he] doesn’t like portraits of people staring down at [him].” Sorry, Keir, that’s what portraits do. (If it bothered you so much, perhaps you could have had them moved a bit lower on the wall? )

    Sounds to me like a first world problem in what’s an increasingly third-world banana republic. I despair.

    And I wouldn’t send them any money, either.

    ** “Today’s idiocy” came after a recent headline, “Immigration judges have repeatedly ruled migrants can avoid deportation despite lies about the risks they face at home,” and another, convoluted, story about a woman who was about to be deported who suddenly claimed she was a member of a group in her native country that would have gotten her persecuted had she gone back. Apparently, everyone knew this was a fake and contrived story. But it worked, as do the rest of them

    He’d probably prefer “Comrade.”

    • #32
  3. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Russia today has expended itself in Ukraine. It lacks everything needed to invade – even the Baltics (assuming Poland helped the little guys, which it would). The economy is in shambles. 

    On that basis, Germany can rebuild and rearm as well as Russia can. I don’t see Russia being able to take Germany or Poland or Czechia if the US pulled out tomorrow.

    • #33
  4. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Send Cromwell’s portrait to Connacht!

    (And Churchill’s to Calcutta.)

    (Tbh I can’t judge. I’m in India and we’re busy putting UP portraits of our Quisling equivalents.  I am sick of all culture wars, I feel they attract – on both sides – the most mean hearted, power hungry and morally compromised people of any society.)

    • #34
  5. EODmom Coolidge
    EODmom
    @EODmom

    Percival (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):
    Has Russia ever conquered a European country? I know the Germans did and the Russians filled in the vacuum after the US beat Germany, but has Russia ever expanded on their own?

    From 1772 to 1795 Russia participated in the three Partitions of Poland with the Hapsburg Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia that eliminated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    Is this what you think recurs if America is out of it?

    Nah. They’ll gobble up the Baltic States first.

    And does that threaten America or Europe?

    If threatens cruise ship itineraries. The rest is a rerun.

    Until China takes Taiwan and the high-tech chip foundries.

    China unlikely to take it intact. 

    • #35
  6. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    EODmom (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):
    Has Russia ever conquered a European country? I know the Germans did and the Russians filled in the vacuum after the US beat Germany, but has Russia ever expanded on their own?

    From 1772 to 1795 Russia participated in the three Partitions of Poland with the Hapsburg Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia that eliminated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    Is this what you think recurs if America is out of it?

    Nah. They’ll gobble up the Baltic States first.

    And does that threaten America or Europe?

    If threatens cruise ship itineraries. The rest is a rerun.

    Until China takes Taiwan and the high-tech chip foundries.

    China unlikely to take it intact.

    I suspect they think that their domestic chip production will suffice for their needs. Everybody else pays retail + 50%.

    • #36
  7. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    Percival (View Comment):

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):
    Has Russia ever conquered a European country? I know the Germans did and the Russians filled in the vacuum after the US beat Germany, but has Russia ever expanded on their own?

    From 1772 to 1795 Russia participated in the three Partitions of Poland with the Hapsburg Empire and the Kingdom of Prussia that eliminated the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

    Percival, the fact that you have to go back so far to obtain such an obscure and trivial citation (“participated in” is not the same as “steamrolled”) is the exception that proves DonG’s rule.  We can accept that Russia has effectively never expanded on their own.  One can thank FDR for the Warsaw Pact.

    • #37
  8. Doctor Robert Member
    Doctor Robert
    @DoctorRobert

    AMD Texas (View Comment):
    I don’t think it is an exaggeration to say that the Russians did as much if not more to beat them.

    The Russians lost, IIRC, a million men on the German front.  Ask Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Their view of the Italian campaign and of the Normandy landings is as a distracting action.

    We lost slightly fewer than 100,000 men and women in the European and Pacific fronts combined.

    • #38
  9. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Zafar (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Zafar (View Comment):

    According to Lord Ismay:

    The purpose of the NATO alliance is “to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down”.

    Hard enough with the Americans in. Extremely unlikely with them out.

    Too bad, but that’s Europe’s problem, not the US’s. Europe has the resources it needs. It should not be sucking down ours.

    It is in the US’ interests to keep the Russians out. Germany would be better off buying cheap Russian energy.

    We have offered USA LNG to Europe. Unfortunately, Biden’s crew usurped our country for four years. Now Germany can buy our cheap energy.

    • #39
  10. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Chris O (View Comment):

    Okay, here’s the deal: Russia hates Germany. You cannot apply a strong enough level to that statement. If we leave, Germans have to fill the gap. Russia will be very unhappy about that. Not that I care about their interests, but we’ve seen how Russia behaves, particularly with imagined threats nearby. Confronted with a militarily strengthened Germany…I don’t know.

    Russia isn’t near as threatened by us being in Germany as it would be for Germans to be armed and equipped in Germany. No matter, the country is trying to destroy itself and Russia is falling apart anyway, but, of course, that makes things worse, not better.

    Why should we care? Mainly because we don’t want the winds spreading the nuclear fallout all over the Earth. Plus, Danube River cruises.

    Oh, shoot! I forgot about the Danube cruises.

    • #40
  11. W Bob Member
    W Bob
    @WBob

    Whether we have an alliance with a certain country is determined by a number of factors.  It seems to me that whether they share our precise view of free speech may be one of them, but certainly not the only or most important one. Whether they’re the enemy of our enemy would seem to be a far more important factor.

    It’s just another example of how domestic political factors seem to be determining our foreign policy. The Dems think Russia helped Trump win in 16, so they become hawks on Russia. Republicans reflexively move in the other direction, propelled by their “Russia, Russia, Russia!” mockery of the Democrats.  Vance goes to the security conference and browbeats them over issues that resonate with his party’s base back home, issues that are really way down the list when it comes to who we should have alliances with. That’s why he did it, not because it makes sense in terms of foreign policy. 

    It’s time to grow up. 

    • #41
  12. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    She (View Comment):

    She (View Comment):
    As Britain gets less British, France gets less French, Germany gets less German, and as–it appears–there’s very little backbone or will to push back in any form of nationalist self-interest other than perhaps in Italy and Hungary, I’m not sure why the US should underwrite so much of Europe’s fiscal stability either.

    Today’s idiocy**:

    “Churchill portraits removed from Parliament after Labour’s victory”

    “Drawings, prints and photographs of Second World War leader were taken down following arrival of new MPs in Westminster”

    “Images of other great Britons, including the Duke of Wellington, were also removed from display after Labour’s victory.”

    “The collection was audited for possible links to slavery and racism following the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020. The audit was carried out by the Speaker’s advisory committee on works of art, which produced a dossier of artworks depicting historical figures deemed to be controversial.”

    “Days after the July 4 election, five portraits of William Gladstone, the four-time liberal prime minister, were taken down. Gladstone’s father had owned slaves and was compensated financially following the abolition of slavery.”

    “At the same time, five images of Oliver Cromwell were also removed. He had been listed in the audit as someone who ‘supported slavery, had financial or family interests in the transatlantic slave trade and slavery’.”

    “Although William Wilberforce was a famous campaigner for the abolition of the slave trade, a portrait of him was also removed.”

    “A portrait of Lord Salisbury, the Victorian prime minister, was taken down, along with artwork depicting the poet John Milton, Charles I, and a painting of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.”

    Because nothing says “we’re proud of our history and who we are as a nation” like obliterating any trace of, or any ability to have a rational discussion about, the ups and downs that got us to where we are today. It is quite funny, in some sense, I suppose, that almost five years after the 2020 BLM mania in the US, and after so much of the movement has been exposed for what it was, that there are those in the UK–which was regularly deemed one of the least racist countries in the world before all this nonsense started–who still willingly and enthusiastically embrace and promote it.

    This follows the widely-reported stories that one of the first things Brave Knight (because he is one) Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer did when he moved into Downing Street was remove the portraits of William Shakespeare, Elizabeth I, Sir Walter Raleigh and…wait for it…Margaret Thatcher because “[he] doesn’t like portraits of people staring down at [him].” Sorry, Keir, that’s what portraits do. (If it bothered you so much, perhaps you could have had them moved a bit lower on the wall? )

    Sounds to me like a first world problem in what’s an increasingly third-world banana republic. I despair.

    And I wouldn’t send them any money, either.

    ** “Today’s idiocy” came after a recent headline, “Immigration judges have repeatedly ruled migrants can avoid deportation despite lies about the risks they face at home,” and another, convoluted, story about a woman who was about to be deported who suddenly claimed she was a member of a group in her native country that would have gotten her persecuted had she gone back. Apparently, everyone knew this was a fake and contrived story. But it worked, as do the rest of them

    This sounds like the same behavior demonstrated by the regressive left in our own country during the Biden regime. They have a playbook and they stick to it. It sounds as if Germany is developing a political party that can repel this idiocy. I do not know about Great Britain.

    • #42
  13. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Vance goes to the security conference and browbeats them over issues that resonate with his party’s base back home, issues that are really way down the list when it comes to who we should have alliances with. That’s why he did it, not because it makes sense in terms of foreign policy.

    I don’t think so. It was a speech not meant for the people attending it, but for the European public. 

    • #43
  14. Subcomandante America Member
    Subcomandante America
    @TheReticulator

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I love the assumption that Europe is going to roll over for Russia, or that Russia, a nation that has proven incompetent to conquer Ukraine, a nation a fraction of its size, will somehow manage to roll over the rest of Europe. It’s not 1945 anymore. Or 1967. It is not even 1991 anymore.

    It doesn’t have to roll over Europe in order to accomplish its objectives to some extent.  The Soviets never rolled over Finland in any thoroughgoing way, but Finland’s foreign policy was hostage to the Soviet Union.  Finlandization, they called it.  The Finns who are old enough to remember have bitter memories of those days when they weren’t completely free to be their own country.  Russia tried doing that with Ukraine, too, until things got more kinetic in 2013-2014.   

    Trump is trying to do some of that for Russia now by insisting that Ukraine and the United Nations tell public lies about the start of the Russia-Ukraine war.  Or at least refrain from speaking the truth.   

    • #44
  15. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Chris O (View Comment):

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Vance goes to the security conference and browbeats them over issues that resonate with his party’s base back home, issues that are really way down the list when it comes to who we should have alliances with. That’s why he did it, not because it makes sense in terms of foreign policy.

    I don’t think so. It was a speech not meant for the people attending it, but for the European public.

    I agree and believe strong alliances must include a shared value system amongst the people involved. Apparently, W Bob believes that freedom of speech and association is way down the list of important values. Not me.

    • #45
  16. EJHill Staff
    EJHill
    @EJHill

    Ok, let’s get past the politics and talk about logistics. Between 2004 and 2012, a total of 14,000 injured US servicemen were evacuated from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the US Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. (Plus their satellite facilities, two in Belgium, two in Italy and three others in Germany.) The survival rate for Landstuhl Level I Trama patients is 99.5%.

    So, get into a political snit about who’s pulling their weight in NATO or who’s propping up who for what reason is consigning more American servicemen to death and needless grieving for their families.

    Yeah, let’s close our facilities in Europe. That’ll teach us.

    (Statistics provided by the US Army to the American Forces Press Service.)

    • #46
  17. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    iWe (View Comment):

    Russia today has expended itself in Ukraine. It lacks everything needed to invade – even the Baltics (assuming Poland helped the little guys, which it would). The economy is in shambles.

    On that basis, Germany can rebuild and rearm as well as Russia can. I don’t see Russia being able to take Germany or Poland or Czechia if the US pulled out tomorrow.

    I do believe Russia is more motivated than Germany ever will be.     Poland is certainly motivated;  I have little knowledge of Czechia.

    • #47
  18. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    Subcomandante America (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I love the assumption that Europe is going to roll over for Russia, or that Russia, a nation that has proven incompetent to conquer Ukraine, a nation a fraction of its size, will somehow manage to roll over the rest of Europe. It’s not 1945 anymore. Or 1967. It is not even 1991 anymore.

    It doesn’t have to roll over Europe in order to accomplish its objectives to some extent. The Soviets never rolled over Finland in any thoroughgoing way, but Finland’s foreign policy was hostage to the Soviet Union. Finlandization, they called it. The Finns who are old enough to remember have bitter memories of those days when they weren’t completely free to be their own country. Russia tried doing that with Ukraine, too, until things got more kinetic in 2013-2014.

    Trump is trying to do some of that for Russia now by insisting that Ukraine and the United Nations tell public lies about the start of the Russia-Ukraine war. Or at least refrain from speaking the truth.

    When you say things got “more kinetic in 2013-2014” are you referencing the Orange Revolution in Ukraine? Isn’t that the one where the USA ambassador, Nuland, and the CIA rigged a coup against the Russian-sympathizing and legally elected  Ukrainian President? Where does the history lesson in the Ukrainian-Russian conflict begin? I agree that Russia invaded Ukraine in the most current rendition of the conflict. Ukraine will not win this without our country going all-in against Russia. I do not want war with Russia. Do you?

    • #48
  19. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    EJHill (View Comment):

    Ok, let’s get past the politics and talk about logistics. Between 2004 and 2012, a total of 14,000 injured US servicemen were evacuated from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the US Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. (Plus their satellite facilities, two in Belgium, two in Italy and three others in Germany.) The survival rate for Landstuhl Level I Trama patients is 99.5%.

    So, get into a political snit about who’s pulling their weight in NATO or who’s propping up who for what reason is consigning more American servicemen to death and needless grieving for their families.

    Yeah, let’s close our facilities in Europe. That’ll teach us.

    (Statistics provided by the US Army to the American Forces Press Service.)

    We have facilities all over the world without having NATO-like treaties with those countries if that is the point you are making.

    • #49
  20. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Subcomandante America (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    I love the assumption that Europe is going to roll over for Russia, or that Russia, a nation that has proven incompetent to conquer Ukraine, a nation a fraction of its size, will somehow manage to roll over the rest of Europe. It’s not 1945 anymore. Or 1967. It is not even 1991 anymore.

    It doesn’t have to roll over Europe in order to accomplish its objectives to some extent. The Soviets never rolled over Finland in any thoroughgoing way, but Finland’s foreign policy was hostage to the Soviet Union. Finlandization, they called it. The Finns who are old enough to remember have bitter memories of those days when they weren’t completely free to be their own country. Russia tried doing that with Ukraine, too, until things got more kinetic in 2013-2014.

    The Soviets, with a superior number of troops and massive superiority in artillery, tanks, and aircraft (sound familiar), managed to take a little over 10% of tiny Finland in three and a half months. It only cost them a casualty rate of 6-t0-1. That performance was so bad that it convinced Hitler that the Soviet edifice would collapse once the Wehrmacht started to roll.

    Trump is trying to do some of that for Russia now by insisting that Ukraine and the United Nations tell public lies about the start of the Russia-Ukraine war. Or at least refrain from speaking the truth.

    That’s a fool’s errand. 

    • #50
  21. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    W Bob (View Comment):
    Vance goes to the security conference and browbeats them over issues that resonate with his party’s base back home, issues that are really way down the list when it comes to who we should have alliances with. That’s why he did it, not because it makes sense in terms of foreign policy. 

    In the long run, it was an essential speech. If there is no Germany as we know it, then a brief “alliance” period before it is consumed by Islam was nothing more than a Pyrrhic victory.

    • #51
  22. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    EJHill (View Comment):
    Ok, let’s get past the politics and talk about logistics. Between 2004 and 2012, a total of 14,000 injured US servicemen were evacuated from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the US Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. (Plus their satellite facilities, two in Belgium, two in Italy and three others in Germany.) The survival rate for Landstuhl Level I Trama patients is 99.5%.

    Nothing that cannot be matched by the upcoming and amazing US hospital on US sovereign soil in Gaza. Closer to the action, too.

    • #52
  23. sawatdeeka Member
    sawatdeeka
    @sawatdeeka

    Django (View Comment):
    Wading through the yelling and heavy breathing

    Ha, ha, ha!  Perfect! 

    Off topic: I love conservative commentators who come anywhere near sober, rational analysis of issues taking into account all the interesting angles. There seem to be few of these and more of what you reference so succinctly above, which is why I won’t listen to that guy. Most of these show hosts seem intelligent enough–perhaps they just cater to a certain market. Honestly, we’d probably be a more informed and effective conservative electorate if these influential people wielded their abilities differently. 

    • #53
  24. She Member
    She
    @She

    iWe (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):
    Ok, let’s get past the politics and talk about logistics. Between 2004 and 2012, a total of 14,000 injured US servicemen were evacuated from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the US Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. (Plus their satellite facilities, two in Belgium, two in Italy and three others in Germany.) The survival rate for Landstuhl Level I Trama patients is 99.5%.

    Nothing that cannot be matched by the upcoming and amazing US hospital on US sovereign soil in Gaza. Closer to the action, too.

    Honestly, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    • #54
  25. Chris O Coolidge
    Chris O
    @ChrisO

    cdor (View Comment):

    Chris O (View Comment):

    Okay, here’s the deal: Russia hates Germany. You cannot apply a strong enough level to that statement. If we leave, Germans have to fill the gap. Russia will be very unhappy about that. Not that I care about their interests, but we’ve seen how Russia behaves, particularly with imagined threats nearby. Confronted with a militarily strengthened Germany…I don’t know.

    Russia isn’t near as threatened by us being in Germany as it would be for Germans to be armed and equipped in Germany. No matter, the country is trying to destroy itself and Russia is falling apart anyway, but, of course, that makes things worse, not better.

    Why should we care? Mainly because we don’t want the winds spreading the nuclear fallout all over the Earth. Plus, Danube River cruises.

    Oh, shoot! I forgot about the Danube cruises.

    Clearly a matter of national security (not to mention Rhine River cruises).

    • #55
  26. sawatdeeka Member
    sawatdeeka
    @sawatdeeka

    W Bob (View Comment):
    It’s just another example of how domestic political factors seem to be determining our foreign policy. The Dems think Russia helped Trump win in 16, so they become hawks on Russia. Republicans reflexively move in the other direction,

    Yes! 

    • #56
  27. sawatdeeka Member
    sawatdeeka
    @sawatdeeka

    However, I don’t believe Vance’s speech is a good example of what you’re talking about. 

    • #57
  28. cdor Member
    cdor
    @cdor

    iWe (View Comment):

    EJHill (View Comment):
    Ok, let’s get past the politics and talk about logistics. Between 2004 and 2012, a total of 14,000 injured US servicemen were evacuated from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to the US Military Hospital in Landstuhl, Germany. (Plus their satellite facilities, two in Belgium, two in Italy and three others in Germany.) The survival rate for Landstuhl Level I Trama patients is 99.5%.

    Nothing that cannot be matched by the upcoming and amazing US hospital on US sovereign soil in Gaza. Closer to the action, too.

    Funny how that is exactly what I was thinking👍

    • #58
  29. She Member
    She
    @She

    I think Trump and Vance are talking exclusively to Europe on this matter at least, and that they’re in the aforementioned “Snap Out Of It!” mode.  The effect, so far, has been extraordinary, at least in the European press.  So far, things haven’t quite coalesced, but boy howdy, they’re stirred up.

    Just as one of the immediate effects of Trump’s Gaz-A-Lago threat, after about seventy-five years of Middle Eastern potentates whistling past the graveyard and doing absolutely nothing except virtue-signalling about the two-state solution, has been to get the Gulf States, Egypt and Jordan together to discuss how they are going to rebuild Gaza and create a future without Hamas or Palestinian Authority governance.

    Nothing unites a fractious constituency like a common Trump.

    What if Donald Trump actually is (yes, it makes my head hurt even to suggest this) the incarnation of the guy who only cares about actually getting things done, rather than the guy who only cares about who gets the credit? 🤯

    • #59
  30. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    She (View Comment):

    I think Trump and Vance are talking exclusively to Europe on this matter at least, and that they’re in the aforementioned “Snap Out Of It!” mode. The effect, so far, has been extraordinary, at least in the European press. So far, things haven’t quite coalesced, but boy howdy, they’re stirred up.

    Just as one of the immediate effects of Trump’s Gaz-A-Lago threat, after about seventy-five years of Middle Eastern potentates whistling past the graveyard and doing absolutely nothing except virtue-signalling about the two-state solution, has been to get the Gulf States, Egypt and Jordan together to discuss how they are going to rebuild Gaza and create a future without Hamas or Palestinian Authority governance.

    Nothing unites a fractious constituency like a common Trump.

    What if Donald Trump actually is (yes, it makes my head hurt even to suggest this) the incarnation of the guy who only cares about actually getting things done, rather than the guy who only cares about who gets the credit? 🤯

    It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.

    — Anonymous

    • #60
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.