Joint-Use US Military/Civilian Airports

 

In the aftermath of the collision of a military helicopter and a civilian aircraft at Reagan Airport in Washington, DC, I’m left to consider the compatibility of civil airports with military training. The one I am most familiar with is the Portland, OR International Airport (PDX).

We do not have all the evidence at this time of how and what went wrong at the Reagan airport. Some reports indicate that the Army helicopter was on a training mission using a civilian airport. I won’t discuss the DEI aspect of air controllers. I tend to believe that the amount of civilian air traffic at Reagan is not suitable for military training purposes.

PDX

“Jointly controlled by the Oregon Air National Guard
The host unit of the 142nd Fighter Wing
Civilian aircraft operations in 2023: 190K
Civilian passengers served in 2023: 16.5M”

PDX is considered one of the top 5 joint-use military/civilian airports in the US and has been operated that way since 1936. There are about 20+ F-15s based in Portland, two of which are fully armed and on alert status at all times. C-130s and Blackhawk helicopters call PDX home.

The Oregon Air Guard pilots operate and work with civilian air traffic controllers on a regular basis, which also enables them to operate with civilian air traffic controllers when they are deployed elsewhere in the US and overseas.

Once in a while, the F-15s based in Portland are given permission by air traffic controllers at PDX for an unrestricted climb.

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  1. Chowderhead Coolidge
    Chowderhead
    @Podunk

    From my experience most airports can be joint, or full, military airports at the swath of a pen. A few examples are BDL, Bradley Hartford/Springfield airport. I was on the military side working for a contractor when Obama showed up to visit Sandy Hook. I’ve been there a hundred times and at a flip of a switch it seems like it became a military airport.

    Another manufacturer of military equipment is at ROA, Roanoke. That can flip. Last year I was using my daughter’s army bag on a business trip and it got stolen from right under my nose in a supposedly secure area. That city is really bad now.

    An extreme example would be GRK, Ft. Hood in Killeen, TX. My daughter was stationed there and I visited frequently. It has every appearance of being a civilian airport but can convert in minutes. There are lots of other examples.  

    This has always worried me on how fast and drastic martial law could be imposed if it needed to be. 

    As far as communication goes between the two, I have absolutely no idea. I hope we get an explanation.

     

    • #1
  2. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    Doug Watt: includes using a civilian airport. I won’t discuss the DEI aspect of air controllers. I tend to believe that the amount of civilian air traffic at Reagan is not suitable for military training purposes.

    You imply the doomed chopper was using the Reagan airport.   I have heard information that is contrary to that.   I heard that only the Coast Guard uses that airport.   That said, the problem is that airspace is tight, because of all the traffic and special restrictions near the Capitol and White House.

    • #2
  3. CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill Coolidge
    CarolJoy, Not So Easy To Kill
    @CarolJoy

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: includes using a civilian airport. I won’t discuss the DEI aspect of air controllers. I tend to believe that the amount of civilian air traffic at Reagan is not suitable for military training purposes.

    You imply the doomed chopper was using the Reagan airport. I have heard information that is contrary to that. I heard that only the Coast Guard uses that airport. That said, the problem is that airspace is tight, because of all the traffic and special restrictions near the Capitol and White House.

    In any event, the helicopter was using the same air space as the commercial civilian airport.

    The thing about commercial airports is that the traffic that they handle falls off dramatically after 1Am.

    If the military needs to do training, perhaps the sensible policy would be to schedule the helicopter training missions at a better time.

    Of course with EPA having strict noise abatement requirements, across the country and perhaps along this Washington DC corridor, maybe the public will just have to get used to every so often so many of us dying in plane crashes on account of our lacking the ability to handle such matters in a sensible way.

    Back several decades, there was testimony by a three or four star general in front of the Nine Eleven Commission that the jets scrambled out of Langley AFB, in Hampton VA, some 130 miles out of DC, had to first fly over the ocean in order to comply with EPA regulations about noise and pollution! Some of this insane stuff has to face re-consideration.

    • #3
  4. GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms Reagan
    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms
    @GLDIII

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: includes using a civilian airport. I won’t discuss the DEI aspect of air controllers. I tend to believe that the amount of civilian air traffic at Reagan is not suitable for military training purposes.

    You imply the doomed chopper was using the Reagan airport. I have heard information that is contrary to that. I heard that only the Coast Guard uses that airport. That said, the problem is that airspace is tight, because of all the traffic and special

    I fly near that airspace and my wife’s office was located on the south Potomac approach to RR. When I visit her 5rd floor office which overlooks the Potomac one will see many helicopters flying north or south along the river @ ~1000′ along the east side of the river. They typically are on there way to the various bases located north and south of the Woodrow Wilson bridge moving VIP’s between the Naval yard, Bolling base, The Pentagon, Ft Belvoir, and Quantico Base.

    This doesn’t includes the path that Marine 1 (which will include several other helicopters in its contingent) will fly when they are relocating the President. I think he big foots it directly to where ever he is heading (eg Andrews, Camp David, local Maryland photo ops). If this occurs when us little GA guys are traversing the FRZ or SFRA (like when he visits the USNA) we are actively redirected well out of his path (unlike the normal separation limits (3 mile/ 1000′?) with other commercial traffic). 

    • #4
  5. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Doug Watt: includes using a civilian airport. I won’t discuss the DEI aspect of air controllers. I tend to believe that the amount of civilian air traffic at Reagan is not suitable for military training purposes.

    You imply the doomed chopper was using the Reagan airport. I have heard information that is contrary to that. I heard that only the Coast Guard uses that airport. That said, the problem is that airspace is tight, because of all the traffic and special restrictions near the Capitol and White House.

    I need to clarify some of my remarks in this post. The Oregon Air Guard base is located south of the passenger aircraft terminal on the 3,000-acre PDX facility. They share direct access to access taxiways and runways at PDX.

    Army aviation does use the Reagan International Airport for VIP’s to include Congressional members. I’m not sure why Congressional staffers can’t drive Senators and House members, other than it is not as convenient as Reagan to Andrews AFB. This might take some of the pressure off, and increase safety at Reagan, or find another military base that is not as busy as Reagan.

    • #5
  6. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Army aviation does use the Reagan International Airport for VIP’s to include Congressional members.

    I read someplace that the Reagan airport handles 88,000 helicopter interactions per year and that is why they normally have a dedicated ATC for that.  That person when home early the other night. 

    • #6
  7. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Ma… (View Comment):
    south along the river @ ~1000′ along the east side of the river. They typically are on there way to the various bases located north and south of the Woodrow Wilson bridge

    I have seen maps showing the helicopter maximum height as 200′ north of WW bridge and 300′ south of WW bridge.

    • #7
  8. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    There are many joint use civilian/military airports. The problems here are many. High volume, not enough ATC controllers due to nationwide shortage since Covid and due to DEI policies, possible night vision goggles use, last minute change of runway, ATC call that wasn’t as clear as it should be considering flights taking off and landing in same direction, crappy ATC display (I had better with my 1960s technology), and helo possibly too high. 

    • #8
  9. GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms Reagan
    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Malpropisms
    @GLDIII

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    GLDIII Purveyor of Splendid Ma… (View Comment):
    south along the river @ ~1000′ along the east side of the river. They typically are on there way to the various bases located north and south of the Woodrow Wilson bridge

    I have seen maps showing the helicopter maximum height as 200′ north of WW bridge and 300′ south of WW bridge.

    That is probably correct but it is hard to judge their altitude from her building which was directly across from blue plains waste facility/ Naval Research Lab.  I could tell they were much higher in altitude than her 5th floor windows.

    • #9
  10. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):
    Army aviation does use the Reagan International Airport for VIP’s to include Congressional members.

    I read someplace that the Reagan airport handles 88,000 helicopter interactions per year and that is why they normally have a dedicated ATC for that. That person when home early the other night.

    Nothing in the audio indicates the controller wasn’t giving the helo attention.

    • #10
  11. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    I’ve flown in and out of that airport many times, and I always hated it.  Yes, the view is spectacular, but the flight route along the river is highly restrictive due to all the sensitive buildings in the area.  Personally, I would not want to fly under a large jet’s flight path in or out, especially in a helicopter.

    And certainly not in a helicopter at an altitude that intercepts the commercial flight path . . .

    • #11
  12. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    Stad (View Comment):

    I’ve flown in and out of that airport many times, and I always hated it. Yes, the view is spectacular, but the flight route along the river is highly restrictive due to all the sensitive buildings in the area. Personally, I would not want to fly under a large jet’s flight path in or out, especially in a helicopter.

    And certainly not in a helicopter at an altitude that intercepts the commercial flight path . . .

    One approach went right over the Pentagon back in the day. 

    • #12
  13. DonG (¡Afuera!) Coolidge
    DonG (¡Afuera!)
    @DonG

    Red Herring (View Comment):
    Nothing in the audio indicates the controller wasn’t giving the helo attention.

    Attention is not a binary thing.  Would a dedicated controller have given better and more timely guidance?   Probably. 

    • #13
  14. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):
    Nothing in the audio indicates the controller wasn’t giving the helo attention.

    Attention is not a binary thing. Would a dedicated controller have given better and more timely guidance? Probably.

    I would have, in fact I had to, but then I had a better display. My job was getting planes together as well as keeping them apart. Also, I didn’t have the advantage of landing patterns, exact altitude blocks, etc. Relaying exact altitude of target was essential. We had to easily adjust between bearing and range/ clock position, and bullseye calls. But then it was a different job.

    • #14
  15. Red Herring Coolidge
    Red Herring
    @EHerring

    DonG (¡Afuera!) (View Comment):

    Red Herring (View Comment):
    Nothing in the audio indicates the controller wasn’t giving the helo attention.

    Attention is not a binary thing. Would a dedicated controller have given better and more timely guidance? Probably.

    If true that helo was out of its airspace vertically or horizontally, there is the main cause. Jet was on a defined approach to land, collision was at ~400ft. Helo was VFR and said he had plane in sight. First transcripts didn’t have all the calls. Also, helo might have seen the CRJ then took its eyes off and departing plane climbed into area while CRJ descended and lined up with the change to 33 so pilot could have crossed planes he was watching. I don’t think we will ever know what pilot was seeing and thinking.  Neither saw the other until they were pretty much dead. I feel for the people on the right side of the plane. 

    People ask why were they training. So you don’t die in wartime. Most aviator deaths are in training. Midairs are very rare. A split second of inattention can doom you. Bird strikes and equipment malfunctions cause most deaths. Weather causes a few. I’ve been on two  military planes that declared an emergency. Bob had a few in the AF, including a compressor stall leaving Reagan on a civilian flight that then made an immediate landing in Baltimore

    • #15
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