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Alphas & Betas
It’s not unusual for someone to write a post or comment that mentions alpha and beta males, so I’d like to explore this a bit. I probably don’t have many interesting thoughts on this, but I’m curious to know what the rest of you think. You may help me come to some conclusions.
Question 1: Do you accept the classification of men into alpha and beta categories? If No, you don’t have to answer the rest of the questions.
Question 2: What percentage of American men do you reckon are alphas and betas?
Question 3: If you are male, which do you consider yourself? Actually, I don’t want to exclude the women. If you are female, do you consider your husband or lover to be an alpha or beta?
Question 4: Was/is your father an alpha or beta male?
Question 5: What criteria do you use to determine if a man is an alpha or a beta?
Published in General
There is another option that youtube calls a “Sigma male”. From what I can tell, that is a maladjusted alpha who is somewhat lacking in social skills.
Sigma versus Alpha
I’m inherently suspicious of these types of characterizations–especially when it’s one or the other.
My sense is that there’s a little bit of both in many (most) men. So I’ll pass.
I agree. Trying to describe a man or woman and using only two categories is not helpful to that description. My sense is that often circumstances or situations can play a much larger role in how someone reacts. For example, you may have a woman who basically functions as a doormat, except when it comes to protecting/ defending her children, or spouse, or parents.
We’ve all known someone like a kindly old barber, now a thin-chested man with spindly arms, his arthritic hands clip-clip-clipping away, who seventy-three years ago charged into North Korean caves. That’s a separate category–men who are too young or too old to be definitely categorized as flat out alpha or beta.
I think that in the spectrum of manhood (not the same thing as the animalistic spectrum of maleness) there’s a mixture of both, and that mixture’s culture can be steered. I’d also guess that even within that wide spectrum of T-levels, there’s a thick band at each end of the chart that is irrevocably Boy George and Cher, or on the other hand, Harry Callahan and Jack Reacher.
To reiterate: some obvious leaders, some obvious followers, most somewhere in between.
Boy George and Cher!
Great topic. I believe it’s situational. The history of tribal and feudal societies is all about supplanting alpha males whether by established rules or force.
Then again, we all have known those guys who somehow dominate those around them through charm or intimidation. Yet, they always can be brought down by the next big dog.
All I know is that I was born too soon for geekery to be considered attractive. Dammit, Bill Gates…
From https://www.enotes.com/topics/brave-new-world/questions/what-are-the-tasks-jobs-each-caste-in-the-caste-214891
Yep. That one is the closest description of me. I don’t know if I’m lacking in social skills but I sure don’t like to exercise them.
A couple times in a long career, I made an alpha move and made it stick, but I never thought of myself that way. I’ve read that these days a lot of young men go around saying, “I’m an alpha.” Here’s a clue for those boys: If you have to announce that you are an alpha, you aren’t.
Four or five years before I retired early, I had a young woman ask if I would be her mentor. I was surprised because I didn’t think she was interested in the sort of work I did, but she told me that she wanted to learn to do “what I did”, specifically, “how to walk into a room and command respect the way you do.” I’m still not sure what she was talking about. What I told her was, “You aren’t learning much when your lips are moving, and if you talk in a meeting, make sure you’ve done your homework and double-checked it.”
I do believe there are alphas and betas – as Jordan Peterson says, hierarchies are built deep into our DNA. But if I’m remembering my psychology correctly, these roles are not fixed and situations and other factors can affect dominant and submissive behaviors. But I do think there is something to it. I have noted that because of social structures, alpha vs beta doesn’t always determine whether one is in a leadership position or not. But you can tell whether someone belongs there (which I would say is alpha) or not (which I would say is beta). There is a difference between being a leader and a boss. True self-confidence in one’s abilities is one of the distinguishing characteristics. Alphas knows their capabilities, their strengths and weaknesses. If they don’t feel they are the best to achieve something, they will delegate. They are not threatened by other team members who bring different skills to the table or even surpass their own. People follow them willingly because they trust their abilities to lead. They know that one day they will encounter someone who is better at their job than they are, but do not feel threatened by the possibility. Betas are insecure when put in a leadership position. They feel threatened when others seem to outdo them. They are always fearful of losing their position. People pay attention to them because they are the boss but not because they trust them.
This is from a presentation by Colin Powell, A Leadership Primer. It’s interesting that I was asked to participate in a review of a manager’s performance because he was being considered for a significant promotion. The young man who contacted me to schedule an interview sent me a few papers to read “so [I] would have a context for understanding his questions”. I sent him the Powell slides to review so he would “have a context for understanding my answers.” My response was not appreciated, something that I found amusing.
That’s why I wanted to know what people think the percentage is of alphas to betas, and if they think they are an alpha. Because if being an alpha means being the top dog in whatever organization you are talking about, then by definition the vast majority of men are not alphas. But the way some people use the term, they and their friends are alphas, so either that means they do not define alphas as being the great men at the very top of the pyramid, or they have a grossly exaggerated opinion of themselves.
Maybe “alpha” is like a lot of other labels, like “conservative/liberal/feminist/environmentalist/globalist/nationalist,” and people use those terms assuming everyone else agrees on what they mean, but we really don’t. And I totally agree with your quoted statement, Django. If you have to tell people you are popular, charismatic, or well-respected, it’s highly unlikely that you are.
Also, if being a “beta” means you are not the master and commander of all around you, maybe people should stop using it as an insult so frequently.
That’s on the money.
I think that approach recognizes that the group is composed of individuals and saying something that is received well by only one or none of the group to whom one is speaking may not be worth much. I remember when one of the Board members told the others that Thompson doesn’t speak often or say much but you should listen when he does. I never forgot that.
Only Betas have to discuss and worry about stuff like this.
And here you are in the discussion with us . . .
My understanding of the tradition of this designation is that any given tribe/pack/herd/whatever-animal-grouping has only one “alpha.” “Beta” is just the second of a whole string of letters in the Greek alphabet before you get to “omega,” the last letter of the Greek alphabet. If you are not the top dog, gorilla, whatever, you fall into line somewhere else in the tribe/pack/herd pecking order. or you leave the tribe/pack/herd to seek your fortunes elsewhere. There is usually somebody in the tribe/pack/herd that seeks to challenge the current alpha.
I think a lot of what we call “beta male” really should be “omega males” – “men” who are complete losers at being men.
I have never sought to be an “alpha male.” I realized early on (oddly enough watching comedian Tim Conway working with Carol Burnett and other prime movers (alphas) in comedy) that while I could not be “top dog,” I could do really well at being the chief support for the top dog. That served me very well in the professional world. Although I wasn’t going to be “top dog,” I also wasn’t going to be the bottom of the pack. I had a lot of professional success supporting, but never challenging, the top dog.
In the male – female relationship world, I understand that there are whole studies and elaborate theories about how a social convention of monogamy promotes social stability by promoting approximate parity in the sexual pairing of males and females within their respective social hierarchy rankings. Not all females are pursuing the singular alpha male, and the singular alpha male is not scooping up all the females in a way that leaves all the not-alpha-males without sexual mates.
There is movement into and out of being the “alpha.” In the animal world (and in some human cultures) the alpha male gets old and weak, and eventually succumbs to a challenge from a younger alpha-wannabe. In other human cultures, the “fit” “athletic” physically attractive alpha ages and becomes doughy while the nerdy intellectual beta becomes professionally and financially successful, thus moving into “alpha” territory.
80 – 20
I have fooled my dogs into believing in my alphaness.
Perhaps other people’s perception is more important than your own feelings about this
I would say both neutral observer and I are Alphas. However, we do bow to the other’s judgment depending on the circumstances . . .
My thinking is that one would have to go down a long list of qualities to make the determination of Alpha vs. non-Alpha. In addition, the determination is subjective; one person might consider a particular quality to be a sign of an Alpha, while another person might think it’s Beta.
I would define an alpha male as someone who is a natural leader, someone whom people follow, much like the alpha male in an animal pack. But I would add the connotation that an alpha male makes sure to take care of himself, to look after his own interests. I don’t understand the term alpha male as entirely positive.
I only use beta male to mock the low-T feminist men who voted for Kamala or made ads for her.
We used to just call these types of people “Lone Wolves.” Not enough natural charisma and motivation to lead, but don’t have the go along to get along nature to follow.
My first thought was that this is entirely situational.
Or hobbled by a crippling bout of the milquetoast.
Solid.
Hell, I’ll take that first “lips moving” part for about 75% of the “leadership” I currently engage with on a small project. They simply do not listen to the people who know more than they do, they respond with obvious hostility, and that’s not career-friendly to the people pointing it out.
The result: The most knowledgeable and capable contribute less, outcomes are worse, re-work increases, and the anger and frustration rises on both sides. I’ll take someone self-labeled as an “alpha” if they knew when to shut the &&&& up and listen. You won’t learn a damn thing while directing others to do the wrong thing.
I’ve heard it described this way:
A players hire other A players (analogous to the Alpha conversation); they would hire B players to develop into A players if capability and commitment were there.
B and C players won’t hire A players, because they fear being upstaged or are fearful of losing their jobs to the A player, or shown to be obviously lacking in basic knowledge, publicly.
So the organization deteriorates as A players leave organizations run by Bs and Cs, and the people with less career mobility due to lack of capability or commitment, they stay, and the org slowly gets worse and worse over time.
Finally: These mediocrities will tend to survive and even thrive if there are frequent re-organizations, because in big re-orgs, titles get reviewed, and if people see someone with a Director title, they figure they know the gig. My frustrations with these organizational maturity failures cannot be measured with existing technology.
Accurate
Beta move. It’s not that hard to fool a dog with food.
Org charts are for your first day on the job, so you’ll recognize names. The “official” hierarchy frequently bears no resemblance to reality.
Too long a presentation to post all charts, but I like his closing statement: