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Fluoride in Drinking Water
Trump and America had a great week. The honeymoon is over. I hoped, prayed, and voted, for Trump to win this
election. Now that we won, it’s time to be critical of the person we hired to lead this great country. Let’s not fill the swamp just to drain it.
I’m referring to RFK Jr’s promised position in the Trump administration. It seems he made a deal for an endorsement in exchange for leading the DHHS, or the FDA. His big push is to remove fluoride from municipal water supplies.
When I first heard the story of Kennedy wanting to remove fluoride from drinking water, I just rolled my eyes. Now that it has hit many news outlets, I feel I need to write something about this non-issue.
I am trying to grasp his perspective. I can only think of two possible angles. 1) He doesn’t know it’s a problem that doesn’t exist. Or, 2) He knows it’s not an issue but is good for political points.
In my business I have been in 100-200 water treatment plants in the Northeast. Sometimes I will program and set up chemical feed systems, dumping tons of chemicals into millions of people’s drinking water. I lost count of all the places I have been in, but I know exactly how many have the equipment to feed fluoride. There are exactly two. One is on the north shore of Boston. The other is a ski town north of MA. They don’t use it, and the fluoride tanks are empty.
Obviously putting chemicals in drinking water is highly regulated by the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP). These people who run treatment plants are just regular people. They wouldn’t put a chemical into drinking water without documentation or a good reason. They would lose their license faster than Kamala losing track of her thoughts. (Limited time on Kamala digs).
I would have guessed people would be worried about Potassium Permanganate. KMNo4. It’s a big scary long word that turns your drinking water purple. It clumps the manganese and iron so it can be filtered out before you drink it. Nobody cares about that.
Anyone can get the DEP reports from their town’s website. The numbers can’t be fudged without huge fines. From my experience, it doesn’t happen. The fluoride issue isn’t an issue from my experience.
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STOP THE PRESSES. I needed to google the statistics so I wouldn’t have it thrown back in my face, which you all are so able to do. It seems according to the CDC nearly everybody is being fed fluoride. My experience says something completely different. Is it that only the northeast has naturally occurring fluoride? The data doesn’t specify where the natural fluoride is. I have never seen it being done in over 100 treatment facilities. This seems strange to me. CDC LINK. Am I not supposed to believe what my eyes are telling me?
2022 National Water Fluoridation Statistics
These statistics were prepared using water system data reported by states to the CDC Water Fluoridation Reporting System as of December 31, 2022, by the U.S. Census Bureau state population estimates as of July 1, 2020, and by population estimates served by public water supply as of 2015, as published by the U.S. Geological Survey June 19, 2018.
Values were aggregated or calculated at county and state levels. National-level values are a summation (or appropriate calculation based on a summation) of state-level values.
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11,850,115 |
I am not qualified to say this is good or bad. Just don’t literally want it forced down our throats.
In any case, I think we will get by just fine without another Kennedy.
Published in General
I am also not qualified. What I’ll add is that many households have a filter on one or more taps, or at the point of entry for water service, that filters the fluoride out among other impurities. There are dozens of companies in that market, so it must be a popular choice. If the market is already choosing to get rid of it, why should we go to the expense of adding it?
People probably drink more bottled water than tap water these days.
Oh come on, people who don’t want fluoride in the drinking water are just puppets of Big Dentistry.
I have well water. Drink it all the time.
The market has no control over what the DEP mandates. They forced a treatment plant on my town driving water bills up nearly $1000/yr
Don’t limit yourself. I’m still willing to snigger at Al Gore. Or heck,
Me too. I do get the fluoride treatment at the dentist, when I get my teeth cleaned. I have heard that’s more effective than fluoride in the water or the toothpaste. Don’t know. What I do know is that I had unfluoridated water for the first ten years of my life, and that almost every cavity in my teeth occurred before I was eighteen years old. Since then, I don’t think I’ve had a single new cavity, and almost all my dental problems have involved teeth that went bad in my youth. (My dentist was on a years-long mission to get rid of the mercury fillings. My first dentist used to give me, on every visit, a little matchbox with a blob of mercury in it, so that I could watch it separate and come together again as I played with it.
As I’m wont to say, it’s a bloody miracle I’m still alive…
I remember reading about people who opposed fluoride in our water back in the 70’s I think. It was maybe the first time I was aware of a “conspiracy theory” where people accused the government of doing something that was harmful but generally accepted. I thought they were crazy, but after the last few years I’m not so sure!
Of course, “the dose makes the poison,” so it’s all about how much fluoride is there, and what amount actually helps, if it does. I’m sure RFK Jr. has some numbers.
Or – he could be thinking he’s still in the era when it was high controversy and before town decided yea or nay to additions. We to are in a well, so oh well. But our whole Town is on wells and septic and it’s not unusual for the highly rural mix in NH. My bet is he’s reliving his youth and the era of first controversy.
Let’s see some actual data…one line on the graph, for beneficial effects of fluoride versus concentration, another line or lines for side effects versus concentration. Assertions aren’t sufficient.
And if the new Trump administration is going to focus on rolling back the regulatory state, it would seem rather contradictory to issue a federal edict about something that is strictly a local issue. Fine to provide data and guidance, but edicting seems unwise.
So..all the issues we have to deal with in health care not to mention the thousands of other things at the moment and less than a week after the election they fire this shot? Yes…you can walk and chew gum at the same time and maybe fluoride is actually a real issue…do studies and publish them and then make policy. Do not 5 days after the election tweet out we are going to make American Healthy Again by cutting out fluoride from the water supply. This is cannon fodder for everyone and shows a lack of seriousness. This is something you bring up in year 3…not 5 days after being elected….how about tweeting about addressing the issues of costs in healthcare or the book on medical care that was mentioned in a post from yesterday….not fluoride…. we just stepped on the first rake….
You don’t fluoride forced down our throats? Or, you don’t want less fluoride not-forced down our throats?
This is an interesting conversation to me. My little town of Lynden, WA, is going through this debate. The city council voted on a narrow margin to remove fluoride, and the mayor vetoed it. People are as angry as they were during COVID. I too think it’s a solution in need of a problem. I personally don’t drink a ton of my tap water, and when I do it’s usually filtered, though that doesn’t remove the fluoride. If I really thought it was a problem, I’d drink only bottled water. Conversely, if it does get removed, I’ll seek a recommendation from my dentist. I know that fluoride tablets are still a thing.
This is something we do not need RFK getting involved in…
I was taught in medical school that the fluoridation of public water supplies was one of the great public health triumphs of modern times, akin to smallpox vaccinations. Also that everyone’s water was fluoridated. From the numbers Chowderhead cites, this would seem not to be the case. Any dentists care to weigh in?
Added, a quick search gives this link, which I will be exploring.
https://www.ada.org/resources/community-initiatives/fluoride-in-water/fluoridation-faqs
This is an issue that I never really gave any thought to. However, RFK Jr.’s position on it sort of sparked a small amount of interest. Today I was listening to the Dark Horse Podcast which is hosted by Bret Weinstein and his wife. They are both evolutionary biologists with PhDs. Bret was at the forefront of those questioning the validity of the Covid vaccines and the government’s propaganda on cheap drugs which apparently were very effective against Covid. He has been largely proven correct on that issue, and has been well regarded by some very powerful intellectual minds. In short, he has some major credibility.
Bret made only a brief statement about floride in teh water system and research that demonstrates that it can cause cognitive problems in people. As I said, I haven’t had much interest in this issue. I am at a point in my life where there a lot of other things already at work at reducing my IQ, like age. However, I tend to trust what Bret says, or at least consider it something worth looking into further. RFK jr. is far from the nutcase the media has tried to portray him as. He has a long history as a successful litigator on environmental issues. His views on vaccines have been distorted in the same way they have distorted lots of what Trump and J.D. Vance have said. There is no question that Big Pharma has a real interest in making him look like a kook, and more than enough resources to do it effectively. They already control a good deal of the MSM through their advertising dollars.
I am not taking any stand, not making any recommendations other than, don’t write off anything about this issue without doing some thorough research. According to Bret Weinstein there is a lot of it out there, and none of it particularly supports its continuation. Just saying.
I’ve read the FAQs on the site that I cited above. I am going to give credence to the Am. Dental Association as working in the best interests of both the public and of its members on this matter. It’s clear from the discussions presented, which are lightly referenced to the secondary literature, that water fluoridation is effective in preventing caries.
The dentists at the clinic where I work part time (I’m a gynecologist/endocrinologist) have observed that adult caries are much more common in our patients from Mexico and Central America than in Russian and Ukrainian immigrants. Perhaps the degree of fluoridation in their local water supply is part of the reason for this.
One hopes that Mr Trump has made this the only wacky payoff to Mr Kennedy. It certainly is one that may have a significant down side.
According the the Mass DPH website, my town’s water is not fluoridated. So I guess I should be annoyed that my kids were denied the benefits of “one of the great public health triumphs of modern times”. On the other hand, I put four kids through adulthood with hardly any caries. Even my Korean-born daughter has had resilient teeth.
BTW, my medical school memory was correct. What a pity I can’t remember other more useful things from those years.
However, if there IS a consequence regarding cognition, that’s not something we would expect dentists and their advocacy groups to know about. And perhaps not to care much about, either. It’s not their “rice bowl.”
That’s true. This is why Public Health and Epidemiology are recognized specialties. Mr Kennedy may in fact have better data than the ADA, but this seems to me to be very unlikely. Remember that childhood vaccines cause autism.
Why are you sure of it? RFK Jr did not strike me as the kind of person who was into numbers, but that impression could be very mistaken.
I remember an episode of M*A*S*H* where Frank Burns was teaching English to some Koreans. One of the sentences he taught was, “ Don’t contaminate our drinking water with fluoridation.”
Doctor Strangelove, 1964.
Purity of Essence!
I wonder if this was before the advent of fluoridated toothpaste. If I had to guess, I would say 6 minutes of toothbrushing a day exposes teeth to fluoride much long that the drinking of tap water. I drink a lot of tap water and do it by drinking it and not swooshing it around my mouth for a minute before swallowing.
Rotting teeth are a problem also. Almost any medical intervention has tradeoffs.
I wrote a post about the great fluoridated water wars of the 50’s and 60’s here at Ricochet a few years ago. It seemed to me that it turned out to be much ado about nothing. Back then most of the resistance to the addition of fluoride in municipal drinking water was from the right, while after 1970 or so the opposition has come much more from people on the left.
This interview on the Andrew Klavan show touched on the subject of water fluoridation.
“We’ve assumed fluoride is good for us because it kills bacteria on teeth and slightly reduces cavities. Well, if it’s killing the bacteria on our teeth, what’s it doing to our microbiome?”
That’s the entirety of the discussion on fluoridation, but it seems like a question worth asking. I don’t know if it’s a question that’s been answered either in the positive or the negative; the doctor’s point was about challenging long held assumptions in the medical profession, not specifically about fluoridation.
My point is really the same as #10 and #11. I don’t know the wisdom of this policy, but I know that there is no hue and cry from the electorate for it, and thus no compelling reason for this to come out now. Even if it is wise, it will provoke controversy on day 1. It is a rake stepped on, despite a warning sign.
Bad move.
As far as that goes RFK Jr. was always going to be kooky about some medical issue or another. In terms of politics though that’s the price you have to pay for the Kennedy endorsement. In order to buy those votes during the campaign Trump had to sell HHS (or what have you) to this guy, which means in the case of winning he’d have to step on this rake sooner or later.
If you have to step on a rake, sooner is better than later, as it gives more time for the blow to lose its sting. It gives you the most time to talk him down, or find some other solution, before anyone has a chance to actually do something about it.
Some people do their research with all the numbers etc, but then summarize it for a more general audience because they understand that if they start talking parts-per-million etc, the audience’s eyes glaze over and they stop listening.
You may be right, Hank. After the events of this year I have to learn to stop betting against Mr Trump’s instincts.
This is the citation that Mr Kennedy’s tweet gives. I have not yet listened to it, but I shall in the morning. Right now I am listening to Mr Trump on Joe Rogan, just for laffs.
https://thehighwire.com/ark-videos/expert-attorney-exposes-decades-of-fluoride-harms/
Pretty sure he is. For example, he’s not antivax, just pro-vax safety (his words, roughly). Where the numbers don’t hold up or they add up to injuries, he says so and his gravely voice carries. He’s a target for a multi-billion dollar industry’s PR machine.