She Won; He Lost

 

You can analyze the presidential debate as much as you like, but the data isn’t relevant when you look at how both candidates were perceived by the viewers. And it wasn’t good for those of us rooting for Trump.

Trump came off as a curmudgeon (is his age finally catching up to him?), bitter and whiny; unable to stay on track to make the arguments that would have effectively dismantled Harris. He was stuck in past disappointments (as she pointed out), and he wasn’t able to demonstrate dignity and presence. And his bragging (an old habit that raised its ugly head) was annoying and ineffective. Viktor Orban?

Harris, in contrast, hit him where it hurts. She called him a liar several times (most times illegitimately), and pointed out every ugly trait that he was demonstrating. She did look like a disapproving mother, but can you blame her? And she managed to work in some of her supposed attributes while she was busy tearing him down.

Trump’s accomplishments were irrelevant in this debate. Harris’s flip-flopping actions were never addressed. Both candidates dodged questions—the moderators tried to get direct answers and usually failed miserably.

Should they try another go-around? If I were Trump, I wouldn’t; if I were Harris, why not?

Published in Politics
This post was promoted to the Main Feed at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 180 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    She wins because she’s more photogenic than Trump. It’s a shallow reason but we’re a shallow country who votes for people for shallow reasons. She looks young and vibrant and Trump looks a little old and haggard. I gotta say Trumps hair actually looked pretty decent last night. Looked like he got it trimmed up before the debate.

    • #1
  2. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    Yes, he looked bad, repeated too much and came across as mean and unserious…and I will vote for him anyway because I think Harris will be a disaster. But she will win, I think.  I look for a 5-7% bounce in the polls so unless something happens between now and Nov it’s over.

    • #2
  3. Quintus Sertorius Coolidge
    Quintus Sertorius
    @BillGollier

    Excellent succinct analysis Susan. Not much more to add. President Trump lost the debate pure and simple and most likely the election along with it; it will be tough for him to get this out of the minds of voters. He should have been better prepared and have known what he was walking into but he was not. At the end of the day he lost the debate…it’s on him. Whats done is done…this is whom the majority of Republicans wanted as the nominee so we have to ride the horse all the way to then end…warts and all. It does no good to lament  what could have been….it s what we have now. 

    All that said…the moderators last night were next level biased. Yes any Republican will face a “hostile” moderator from ABC, CBS, NBC, NPR, NYT, Wapo etc but last night was next level. I will respectfully argue that it will behoove the main stream conservative media…National Review, Commentary, Washington Free Beacon et al (Federalist and  Blaze and Townhall etc will call this out but they have such a small audience overall) to really call out how bad the moderators were. They should of course critique President Trump’s performance but they cannot let this go unchecked. You can argue that President Trump lost the debate by his own performance and still call out how biased these moderators were and that we really need to have a discussion about the media in this country. I hope the mainstream conservative outlets will do that in the next few days. Not to let President Trump off the hook for his performance but also don’t let the moderators off the hook. 

    The real looser last night was the American people as the betrayal of the media was wide open for all to see last night. 

    • #3
  4. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    Trump should debate again.  He should go over his performance with his debate team and correct any deficiencies.  Of course, Harris is going to decline – one and done . . .

    • #4
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    It’s our fault for not unifying behind Trump and chanting his praises in unison every morning.  How else was he supposed to know that he doesn’t need to come up with a plan or change anything?  

    • #5
  6. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    Stad (View Comment):

    Trump should debate again. He should go over his performance with his debate team and correct any deficiencies. Of course, Harris is going to decline – one and done . . .

    Why would Harris agree to a second debate, it holds no promise for her to improve anything. Also, why would Trump correct his preparation regimen? He believes he does just fine while treating debates as if they are his rallies which is obviously a losing strategy.

    • #6
  7. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    thelonious (View Comment):
    She wins because she’s more photogenic than Trump. It’s a shallow reason but we’re a shallow country who votes for people for shallow reasons

    I agree, Thelonius. It’s a shame, but it is what it is.

    • #7
  8. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    I guess I saw it differently. She had the perfect outfit, hair and nails, but she looked nervous and over-coached even though she was trying to appear confident. It was a fake confident and she repeated canned lines.  To say people are better off today is ridiculous.  Things are worse in every way and she did not take ownership of anything, including the tasks she has been given as VP.

    Trump was Trump – and he does have to remind people about his accomplishments because they were very important and continue to be so.  He listens and then gives a logical response.  She is the new Hilary – laughing and grinning and saying anything of little substance.  I think the voters see through it. TV and the MSM won’t change it.

    • #8
  9. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    I guess I saw it differently. She had the perfect outfit, hair and nails, but she looked nervous and over-coached even though she was trying to appear confident. It was a fake confident and she repeated canned lines. To say people are better off today is ridiculous. Things are worse in every way and she did not take ownership of anything, including the tasks she has been given as VP.

    Trump was Trump – and he does have to remind people about his accomplishments because they were very important and continue to be so. He listens and then gives a logical response. She is the new Hilary – laughing and grinning and saying anything of little substance. I think the voters see through it. TV and the MSM won’t change it.

    I agree with you. 

    • #9
  10. Joker Member
    Joker
    @Joker

    The Mrs. thought Kamala did very well. I didn’t see that.

    Talk about serious? She was mugging the whole night, laughing at what he was saying and rolling her eyes. She lied over and over about Project 2025, Trump banning abortions, Trump saying he wants to rip up the Constitution, the fine people on both sides lie, that only billionaires benefited from Trump’s tax cuts, leading an insurrection on 1/5 (and cops died) and on and on. Consider how that debate might’ve looked if the moderators corrected her. What would she have talked about?

    It certainly wouldn’t be policy. All she had was vague notions of middle class prosperity – the “opportunity economy” would work till you actually did experience success, at which point the IRS would impair your success. I guess without a denial when actually asked, she’s ok with unlimited abortion. The immigration bill that Trump somehow killed would have allowed millions of illegal immigrants in each year. (I can’t recall a piece of legislation that specifically required no law enforcement for illegal activity.)

    It wasn’t Trump’s best night. He took the bait a couple of times. But the moderators, who should care about the content and integrity of the event they are hosting, didn’t challenge or follow up on THE questions the world has about Kamala’s plans. What are they, and why did she change her mind? She said she’d explain each one. Guess they forgot to ask.

    • #10
  11. OkieSailor Member
    OkieSailor
    @OkieSailor

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    I guess I saw it differently. She had the perfect outfit, hair and nails, but she looked nervous and over-coached even though she was trying to appear confident. It was a fake confident and she repeated canned lines. To say people are better off today is ridiculous. Things are worse in every way and she did not take ownership of anything, including the tasks she has been given as VP.

    Trump was Trump – and he does have to remind people about his accomplishments because they were very important and continue to be so. He listens and then gives a logical response. She is the new Hilary – laughing and grinning and saying anything of little substance. I think the voters see through it. TV and the MSM won’t change it.

    No argument on how she looked but she only needed to look better than Trump and she managed that. Her preparation was better than Trumps non-preparation. She sounded reasonable to the average uncommitted voter which is the target of these debates.  He treated it like one of his rallies which was a big mistake.  I expect a bump in the polls for her so why would she change anything or start to answer specific questions when her approach is working?

    • #11
  12. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Stad (View Comment):

    Trump should debate again. He should go over his performance with his debate team and correct any deficiencies. Of course, Harris is going to decline – one and done . . .

    This morning Trump was saying he saw no need for a second debate because he clearly won. Harris, OTOH, wants a second debate where she will go for the knockout instead of a unanimous decision. 

    • #12
  13. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Quintus Sertorius (View Comment):
    You can argue that President Trump lost the debate by his own performance and still call out how biased these moderators were and that we really need to have a discussion about the media in this country. I hope the mainstream conservative outlets will do that in the next few days. Not to let President Trump off the hook for his performance but also don’t let the moderators off the hook. 

    I couldn’t agree more. We need to keep attacking the moderators for this unprofessional and deceptive behavior.

    • #13
  14. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I think the voters see through it.

    You have more faith in the voters than I do. I think the undecided voters and least informed, the most important viewers, would have preferred her over Trump. IMHO.

    • #14
  15. philo Member
    philo
    @philo

    Didn’t watch…and don’t really care. So much is just noise and filler material. Will check in 48-72 hours to see how the state of the race is being impacted by this and other forces. 

    • #15
  16. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    I want to be clear. I will still vote for Trump. But I saw the debate as an opportunity for Trump to build credibility with undecided voters, and for him to discredit her plans. For various reasons, that didn’t happen. Whether it will move the needle, and move it to any degree, time will tell.

    • #16
  17. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I think the voters see through it.

    You have more faith in the voters than I do. I think the undecided voters and least informed, the most important viewers, would have preferred her over Trump. IMHO.

    I remember thinking that when The Orange One started ranting about immigrants eating cats and dogs that he was losing it. I didn’t watch the whole thing because it was starting to look like a slow-motion train wreck. Someone said a while back on the member feed that the country will either elect a president or choose a prom queen. The odds, I believe,  are leaning toward prom queen. 

    • #17
  18. 9thDistrictNeighbor Member
    9thDistrictNeighbor
    @9thDistrictNeighbor

    Ah, the Republican circular firing squad is alive and well.

    • #18
  19. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    When Trump won in 2016, he was but one Republican in a sweep across the country. Republicans took the House, the Senate, several state legislatures and governorships, and the presidency.

    One commentator wrote at the time that it was the ridiculously high ObamaCare bills that had gone out that October that sealed the fate of the Democrats for that election.

    Americans had been lied to about what ObamaCare would do for them. After all of Obama’s smooth talking, snake oil salesmanship, millions of people were still uninsured and millions of self-employed people had lost the insurance they did have. It was a disaster of epic proportions. And in addition to all of that, the insurance premiums for people who still had insurance had doubled.

    The only thing I saw last night was someone who lives on Mount Olympus in Washington, D.C., with house staff and chauffeurs and is completely insulated from the grocery stores and Starbucks that are pulling out of New York because of the migrant crime.

    I think there is an excellent chance that the Democrats will be swept out of office across the board in November.

    I don’t think Americans will fall for Harris’s pretty smile.

    • #19
  20. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Ah, the Republican circular firing squad is alive and well.

    So you have no issues with Trump’s performance? Really? I’m not saying he didn’t do some things well, but do you think the low-information voter would have been impressed?

    • #20
  21. thelonious Member
    thelonious
    @thelonious

    9thDistrictNeighbor (View Comment):

    Ah, the Republican circular firing squad is alive and well.

    So we shouldn’t be objective and pretend Trump absolutely crushed it last night?

    • #21
  22. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I think there is an excellent chance that the Democrats will be swept out of office across the board in November. 

    I don’t think Americans will fall for Harris’s pretty smile. 

    What about all the undecideds? Do you think that will be their impression of her? You have no issues with Trump’s performance? I’m just trying to approach the debate somewhat objectively, and those of us who have criticisms are being criticized for sharing how we think the generally low-information voter will respond. I don’t think he helped himself.

    • #22
  23. Henry Racette Member
    Henry Racette
    @HenryRacette

    We’re talking about the “undecided” voters. I don’t know how many of them watch the debate or read news about the debate — consume any news at all, really.

    If, as a result of this debate, food prices drop, crime drops, wages rise, and life becomes better for those undecided voters, then I guess it’s over, and America will elect a hard-left extremist who will make most of our problems worse.

    On the other hand, if those things don’t happen, then I expect we’ll see a bounce and then things will once again return to where they were last week, with Trump slowly pulling ahead as people gradually learn how extreme Harris is. Just like after the last two bump events for the Harris ticket.

    • #23
  24. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Here’s what I think Trump should do. First, he has to point out that the moderators failed in their efforts to moderate the debate; they selectively did fact-finding and contributed to the adversarial environment. I think he should schedule a bunch of Townhalls, where the audience either offers their questions or they submit them. (I think the former would be more effective.) In a studio, I think Trump would do lots better, even with adversarial questions. He would have time to call out lies, share the truth, tout his accomplishments and nail Harris. What do you all think?

    • #24
  25. Front Seat Cat Member
    Front Seat Cat
    @FrontSeatCat

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I think the voters see through it.

    You have more faith in the voters than I do. I think the undecided voters and least informed, the most important viewers, would have preferred her over Trump. IMHO.

    The least informed only heard the “free $6000 clams she says she’ll cough up for their vote and we pay for – that’s all they ever hear….

    • #25
  26. Joker Member
    Joker
    @Joker

    Ok, some think Kamala did well last night. Pretend you’re an independent who watched the debate. Now that you’ve seen her, tell me what she said or what you saw that makes you want to vote for her.

    • #26
  27. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Racette (View Comment):
    On the other hand, if those things don’t happen, then I expect we’ll see a bounce and then things will once again return to where they were last week, with Trump slowly pulling ahead as people gradually learn how extreme Harris is. Just like after the last two bump events for the Harris ticket.

    I hope you’re right, Hank. I’m skeptical.

    • #27
  28. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Front Seat Cat (View Comment):
    I think the voters see through it.

    You have more faith in the voters than I do. I think the undecided voters and least informed, the most important viewers, would have preferred her over Trump. IMHO.

    The least informed only heard the “free $6000 clams she says she’ll cough up for their vote and we pay for – that’s all they ever hear….

    You’ve made my point.

    • #28
  29. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I think there is an excellent chance that the Democrats will be swept out of office across the board in November.

    I don’t think Americans will fall for Harris’s pretty smile.

    What about all the undecideds? Do you think that will be their impression of her? You have no issues with Trump’s performance? I’m just trying to approach the debate somewhat objectively, and those of us who have criticisms are being criticized for sharing how we think the generally low-information voter will respond. I don’t think he helped himself.

    He may have.

    I didn’t watch it because I never watch any debates. I don’t like the superficiality of debates. I think they are run like beauty contests and never get beyond the day’s headlines. It’s all style over substance. I don’t think this debate will affect voters’ opinions.

    This election will be decided on the basis of the misery index–how your income compares to your expenses. How many of your friends are staring at unemployment or diminished employment. How many hungry and homeless migrants are in your community right now in relation to the number of jobs and homes and classrooms and teachers you have available to provide for them. How many of your friends are Jewish and suffered through the October 7 attack that never would have happened under Donald Trump because his policies crippled Iran. How many people in the military watched the United States walk away from a multi-billion-dollar fully equipped Air Force base in Afghanistan and two weeks ago saw the Taliban parade all of the American weapons they got in that exchange.

    The Biden-Harris administration’s work touches people far more directly because of the size and reach of the federal government than any other previous administration. They control education and healthcare in addition to the military and the banking systems. In a word, the government is a big part of everyone’s life now. And people are naturally critical. It’s just the nature of human beings.

    I had an interesting doctor’s visit a week ago. A nurse who would normally be a Massachusetts Democrat said some really negative things about the covid vaccine. I was shaking my head as I left.

    The Democrats are cracking. I’m sure of it. People are not accepting what they say as the truth anymore.

    Donald Trump was himself–flaws and all. Kamala Harris was Meryl Streep. She has no idea what she is talking about, and it showed.

    • #29
  30. Jim George Inactive
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

    Susan Quinn: You can analyze the presidential debate as much as you like, but the data isn’t relevant when you look at how both candidates were perceived by the viewers. And it wasn’t good for those of us rooting for Trump.

    Susan, to illustrate my despondency at the end of that wretched performance, here is the text I sent to family at 9:58 pm last night:

    God Help us. A dark night for the future of our beloved Republic. The corporate media just installed the next President. God Help us.

    Sent from my iPhone

    Your observations are spot on and you are most correct when you say that the pros and cons and the goods and the bads and the number of times Trump got in a good punch (rarely) compared to the number of times Harris landed a solid blow (many, many times) matters not one whit and that the only thing that matters is the question of perception. If that were the issue which defined how the public decided winner and loser, there is no doubt in my mind who won last night, hands down. 

    I cannot express here without running straight upon the shoals of the Code of Conduct my revulsion at the sickening display of bias on the part of those two “moderators.” And that leads to the bottom line issue as far as I’m concerned– why in the world did Trump ever agree to this debate knowing, better than anyone in the world after his  experience over the last eight years, how amoral, driven, despicable, Marxist, socialist, hate-filled, win-at-any-cost the media is and especially the major networks of whom ABC might be one of the worst of all? 

    I so wish I could be as sanguine as some observers are this morning. If it weren’t for the approach of Francine with her anticipated high winds and heavy rain on the way, my Old Glory would be out front at half-staff and this morning there would be another reason aside from September 11.

    Your title says it all. Sadly. 

    • #30
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.