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You Can’t Negotiate with Barbarians
As the nightmare with Israel in Gaza continues to unfold, I have almost completely lost patience with the idiocy, naivete, and wishful thinking of those who are involved with the supposed negotiations to release hostages, and to initiate a cease fire. Everyone seems to have an agenda, and very few of them deal with reality and the actual facts.
And meanwhile, people are dying, as the war drags on. Most recently, Hamas killed six hostages:
Their bodies were found with gunshot wounds to the head and other parts of their bodies, the Ynet news site reported. An autopsy found they were murdered in the 48 hours prior to the discovery of their bodies, the report said.
IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said the six were ‘brutally murdered’ by Hamas shortly before troops arrived — possibly only a day or two before they were found.
Does the word “barbarism” not fit these actions? These were innocent civilians who were murdered. Real human beings. Hersh Goldberg-Polin was originally from Oakland, CA. Alexander Lobanov leaves behind his wife, a two-year old child and a five-month-old child; the latter was born during his captivity. Almog Sarusi was at the Nova music festival, and tried to save his girlfriend when she was shot; she died and he was taken hostage.
Do I tell these stories to tug at your heartstrings? Yes. But I also tell them because the hostages can eventually be viewed as one-dimensional photos that become dehumanized over time. After all, Hamas has dehumanized them and treated them as bargaining chips; even then, they were expendable.
But there are other activities taking place that complicate Israel’s war with Gaza. My first gripe is with the Hostages and Missing Families Forum. If you read about their goals, they may seem noble. The problem is that they have created a fiction about the actual situation in Gaza. They foolishly believe that the international criminal organizations are going to hold Hamas accountable. Seriously? When has any international community acted to defend Israel? These agencies may even verbalize their intentions, such as calling Sinwar a war criminal. But will they do anything? They don’t have the power to take any kind of action. So, while the HMFF fights for the hostage families, they ignore the facts on the ground, inhibit the Israeli government’s ability to prosecute the war, have led the frightened and angry families of hostages to believe that they can be successful, and ignored the true motivations of Hamas from the start (which was to drive Israelis into the sea). More than all that, they insist on a ceasefire. Let’s look first at the farce of the ceasefire deal:
The US, Qatar and Egypt, who have acted as mediators, this month renewed a push to reach a hostage and ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.
The mediators have proposed a three-phase approach: a first phase involving a six-week ceasefire; a second phase that would release all hostages and a withdrawal of all IDF presence from Gaza; and a third reconstruction phase.
However, the current proposal, if agreed upon, essentially allows Israel and Hamas to abandon discussions after the first phase, and Israel has made it clear that a break in the fighting may be just that and it is not ready to agree to a permanent ceasefire.
First of all, Hamas has consistently refused the first part of the deal; they will settle for nothing less than a permanent ceasefire, which means they want to end the war—permanently! Does anyone see any problem with these demands? If there is no first phase of negotiating, why are we negotiating? Is the U.S. hoping a miracle will happen and Hamas will change its mind? Based on what? In a previous post, I explained some of the reasons why negotiations are a waste of time. But more than that conclusion, they have raised the hopes of the hostage families, ignoring the position of Hamas to settle for nothing less than a permanent cease fire or an end to the war. And they blame Netanyahu for Hamas’ reticence.
Is anyone listening?
For the most part, wishful thinking is guiding decisions about the war. The U.S. thinks that as long as they insist that negotiations continue, Hamas will cave in. As Joseph Cox has said, Qatar is not the friend of Israel or the U.S. And Egypt wants to maintain control of the Philadelphi corridor so that they can continue to reap the benefits of Hamas shipping arms through that area.
So, if I haven’t been clear in my message, let me summarize why the negotiations should stop
- Israel should be given the weapons they need to wipe out Hamas, and be allowed to destroy Hamas to assure their own existence.
- None of the negotiating parties are legitimate participants.
- There will be no permanent ceasefire until Hamas is sufficiently destroyed.
- The hostages may or may not survive the ongoing war, although we now know that Hamas is willing to kill them.
- HMMF may decide to speak out for the hostages and their families, but they should stop claiming they will get international action against Hamas.
Those are the facts.
Live with them.
Published in General
Where are the demonstrations in Gaza and in the West Bank demanding release of the hostages? Until then….
Oh, there are demonstrations–by the HHMF, which mainly demands that Netanyahu agree to a permanent cease fire. They’re willing to have the hostages released (dead or alive) at any cost.
The solution to dealing with barbarians is to kill them until they stop attacking you.
The people of Gaza should be treated exactly how they would treat the people of Israel if they had the power.
Hamas must be exterminated. The punishment for such barbarity should be extinction. Palestinians would have a better life afterwards.
Based on polls, Palestinians don’t even know how they’d benefit; they still support Hamas. It makes me wonder if they are just as barbarous as Hamas.
Hamas has been in power since 2007, and they haven’t been shy about dealing with “opposition,” starting with their opponents in the one-and-only election in its immediate aftermath. What kind of fair and impartial opinion poll do you suppose is possible in such circumstances?
I guess I’d want to know who’s taking the poll. I believe it’s a Palestinian organization, and probably overseen by Hamas. Then again, how are we to know the truth?
No,.
There is no distinguishing between the Palestinians and Hamas. There are no innocent civilians. They are all part Of the same entity as much as the citizens of Germany all supported Hitler. The Japanese supported their regime.
Anything that we did in order to stop Germany and Japan is justified for Israel and stopping The attacks on their country. This weird fetish of saying somehow the people of Gaza are not for what is going on is ridiculous. If they were against it they would stop it. They don’t.
This could be over in a matter of days if Israel would act as the United States did in World War I against the axis powers.
Perfectly put. Mr Biden/Ms Harris should be raining violence beyond imagining upon Gaza in vengeance for the death of Mr Goldberg-Polin. This war would end in a week if Israel, and to the extent that it involves us, the US, would pursue it in that manner. Such a policy would ultimately save Gazan lives.
Explain to me the difference between today’s Gaza and West Bank ‘Palestinians’ and the 1940’s occupants of …say Dresden. War is hell.
“Don’t start nothin’ won’t be nothin’”
I simply can’t understand the idiocy of anyone trying to “negotiate” with the barbaric Hamas, especially after their latest barbarism. They have no intention at all of honoring any agreement they may agree too.
It’s like bargaining with a hungry tiger whose sole intention is to have you as his dinner.
Edit: Typ0.
That statement is morally dubious. I’d be willing to say that with these two populations, maybe 60 to 80 percent are culpable, but not one hundred percent.
And of course there are children in these populations that can’t be held morally responsible.
There is a practical difference between the Germans of the 1930’s and 40’s, and today’s Palestinians residing in the Gaza Strip.
The Gaza Stip is about 25 miles long and 4-7 miles wide along its length. You can literally walk out in a day. Practically speaking, no one will let them out. But Hamas has had control of the Strip for 17 years. That’s plenty of time to figure out how to get your family out. No doubt many Palestinians have.
Probably those who are left are more likely to truly support Hamas.
As Hamas has used their own population as human shields, my stance is that Israel should go about their military objectives without regard to civilian losses that result. But they shouldn’t deliberately target civilians if no military objective against Hamas is in the mix.
Regarding Germany and Japan — both countries had evil regimes that deserved defeat — I realize the firebombings in both countries resulted in civilian loss of life, I only have a little sympathy towards that loss. In the end, I expect my government to regard their own citizens to be more important than the civilians they are at war with.
Israel, in going about its military objectives, should consider their own children to be more important than the Palestinian children that are used as human shields. I don’t expect that the soldiers tasked with defeating Hamas, who end up killing children to come home unscathed. Unlike the Palestinians who would have no moral qualms in killing Jewish children.
All your points are excellent. You deal with the generalizations we tend to make without having evidence. You also remind us of the opportunities that Palestinians had to flee earlier on, and didn’t leave. They knew they were living under an evil regime. Thanks, Al.
From Gatestone Institute:
They’ve been raised from infancy on a diet of genocidal hate.
When do we ever see Muslims protesting Muslim-on-non-Muslim terrorism? Much less efforts to aid and protect those Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc?
For an analogous situation, take the Comanche nation. They were total barbarians, expert warriors, torturing and murdering their captives. Other Native American nations hated them and actually pushed them to near extinction until the Comanches adapted horse culture. At that point their raiding and warrior skills became powerful again and they once more terrorized the southern plains. The American settler/army then pursued them back to the point of extinction. A real leader came forward and led them to a reservation and eventually a much more materially prosperous life.
In short the Comanche gave up total freedom but it was a culture that reveled in violence, rape, and thievery. It could not survive among other cultures. It had to be completely changed. That is where the Palestinians are. Their culture needs an overhaul and only a “seminal event” will allow that to happen. How horrible that event needs to be remains to be seen.
From Dark Tunnels and Moral Beacons by Bari Weiss at The Free Press :
And Hamas is but one column in the enemy army.
“You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”
That is what bothers me most about the “endless war” whiners within the Trump coalition. They cry “peace, peace” when there is no peace. Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Iran will continue to torture us, and we will continue to behave to meet their demands.
The facts demonstrate the opposite of the claim in the OP.
Last October or November, there were negotiations, which resulted in the release of over 100 of the Israeli prisoners taken on October 7. This is a fact. The Israelis negotiated with the Palestinians, and many of the prisoners were returned.
Then the Israelis changed their approach. They continued sporadic negotiations, but made it clear that they would not agree to a permanent ceasefire even after all of the prisoners were released. Obviously, this undermined any prospect of successful negotiations, as it required the Palestinians to give up their negotiating leverage without getting an end to the fighting.
I followed the linked story. It described the Israelis closing in on a location in which 6 of the prisoners were held, to free them by force. What occurred is exactly what one would expect, at least if this report is true. The Palestinians killed the prisoners.
Negotiations worked. Force did not.
This is not debatable, folks. It’s what happened.
Oh, you can’t fool us, Jerry. You’re really a foreign policy advisor to the Biden-Harris administration, aren’t you? You slyboots, you.
This really puzzles me. The anger is directed at Netanyahu and little at the responsible perpetrators. The price they are willing to pay for the hostages almost certainly will lead to many more dead innocents in the future.
Similarly our government makes all sorts of public demands of Israel and little of Hamas. I don’t get it.
You and I are aligned, Terence. Many hated Netanyahu because he’s on the political right to begin with, and I suspect the lack of speed with which he’s prosecuting the war (to accommodate the U.S. demands is frustrating). But I think (maybe understandably) too much emotion is mired in the situation.
In 2011 Israel traded about 1000 Palestinian prisoners for Gilad Shalit, an IDF soldier who had been captured 5 years before.
Benjamin Netanyahu was Prime Minister at the time. This propensity of negotiating with the barbarians is a part of their DNA. Like the U.S. Armed Forces, they tell their soldiers they won’t be left behind. And Netanyahu was a bit of a dove before the October 9th massacre. And he’s said to now be embarrassed about the trade he did so many years ago.
The barbarians consider this a weakness, something they are not able to use against other barbarians.
Apparently something similar was tried against the Soviet Union by some group in the Middle East. The Soviet KGB went after the terrorist families, innocent or not, killing family members after torturing them.
The Soviets had no more hostage problems after that.
I don’t advocate this for the Israelis. But when they tell their soldiers they won’t leave them behind, they should make it clear it won’t include negotiations with the terrorists.
And when the government tells their citizens they will destroy Hamas AND get the hostages back, they are over promising. And that’s why the country is split. The government wasn’t realistic in its promises to its own citizens.
Given his “do not blame terrorists when they murder hostages” position, he might as easily be an advisor to Certain Other Organizations…
It only works while both sides support it
Over on the “Call me back” podcast, the arguments about the negotiations are clearly laid out. It’s a long format podcast and worth the while if the Gaza war is of interest.
I’ll be listening to it tomorrow on my morning walk. I listen regularly, and have found it very helpful.