Binary Option: Anyone on the Public Right Publicly Not Supporting Trump is Supporting Harris

 

The simple binary outcome of this election is that either Trump or Harris will win. What we have, again, is many on what I am calling the Public Right declaring Trump unfit for office or that they will not vote for him. This helps Harris get elected. There is no squirming out of that. They can say they are being principled all they want to. It does not matter. They can sleep soundly at night, knowing their principles dictated helping Harris, who in theory, stands against everything in which they believe, win.

Thus, I will lay part of the blame for a Trump loss at the feet of the Public Right who did not support him. These include all the Never Trumpers at NRO, and anyone with any voice, any sense of public communications. In the battleground states, a few votes may make the difference. Those few votes could well be swayed by hearing the anti-Trump Public Right come around to supporting Trump.

It is clear to me that those not supporting Trump on the Public Right just don’t care. They don’t care what Biden has done to the nation, they don’t care what Harris will do. It’s all OK. No worries. All that is important is they feel good about themselves. Ironically, this is just like the voters on the left. All that matters to them is feeling good about themselves.

Maybe the anti-Trump Public Right is not so on the Right after all.

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  1. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

     

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump.  And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    • #31
  2. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    I’m not sick of hearing it, and I don’t know why you think it assumes that nominating Haley would not have cost any votes. I doubt there is anybody who thinks that.

    Then listen to that nonsense all you want. I am through with it.

    Haley “has a better shot” was the statement. Explain that if you can. The only way that works is if she can pick up votes that Trump can’t get without losing part of the Trump base.

    No, that’s not the only way it works. It depends on the actual quantities, which nobody knows for sure.

    If nobody thinks that’s possible, and you said you doubt anybody thinks that . . .

    I doubt that anybody thinks that it could be done without losing some Trump votes.

    It depends on percentages. 

    • #32
  3. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    What a bizarre message. Who is it that wanted you to vote for McCain and Romney? Not me. Frankly I don’t understand this, maybe because I vote based on my own judgement and assessment of the situation. I don’t vote a certain way because I’m told to (and who is this that is doing the telling?). Your mileage may vary.

    • #33
  4. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

     

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    What a bizarre message. Who is it that wanted you to vote for McCain and Romney? Not me. Frankly I don’t understand this, maybe because I vote based on my own assessment of the situation. I don’t vote a certain way because I’m told to (and who is this that is doing the telling?). Your mileage may vary.

    I personally don’t want to argue about this anymore, but here’s where I think he’s coming from. Years ago, that fat jerk Karl Rove said that Shrub didn’t have to worry about the conservative vote because they “have nowhere else to go”. We have been taken for granted enough. Some of us have decided to just spend election day away from the polls. My two cents. Now, I’ll take a shower and have a good night’s sleep. 

    • #34
  5. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Django (View Comment):

    What a bizarre message. Who is it that wanted you to vote for McCain and Romney? Not me. Frankly I don’t understand this, maybe because I vote based on my own assessment of the situation. I don’t vote a certain way because I’m told to (and who is this that is doing the telling?). Your mileage may vary.

    I personally don’t want to argue about this anymore, but here’s where I think he’s coming from. Years ago, that fat jerk Karl Rove said that Shrub didn’t have to worry about the conservative vote because they “have nowhere else to go”. We have been taken for granted enough. Some of us have decided to just spend election day away from the polls. My two cents. Now, I’ll take a shower and have a good night’s sleep. 

    I used to hear the same nonsense back when I was told that not voting for Bush was the same as voting for Gore, or later when I was told that not voting for Bush was the same as voting for Kerry.   

    Makes me feel younger to be hearing the same stuff again.   

    • #35
  6. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    What a bizarre message. Who is it that wanted you to vote for McCain and Romney? Not me. Frankly I don’t understand this, maybe because I vote based on my own assessment of the situation. I don’t vote a certain way because I’m told to (and who is this that is doing the telling?). Your mileage may vary.

    I personally don’t want to argue about this anymore, but here’s where I think he’s coming from. Years ago, that fat jerk Karl Rove said that Shrub didn’t have to worry about the conservative vote because they “have nowhere else to go”. We have been taken for granted enough. Some of us have decided to just spend election day away from the polls. My two cents. Now, I’ll take a shower and have a good night’s sleep.

    I used to hear the same nonsense back when I was told that not voting for Bush was the same as voting for Gore, or later when I was told that not voting for Bush was the same as voting for Kerry.

    Makes me feel younger to be hearing the same stuff again.

    Comment deleted.

    • #36
  7. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    It’s pretty simple math, the only reason someone wouldn’t understand it is if they are even simpler.

    Not voting for the Republican, WHOEVER it is, in ANY election, is a net +1 for the Democrat, WHOEVER it is.

    Actually voting for the Democrat, as some self-proclaimed Republicans have done, is a net +2 for the Democrat.

     

     

    And, a reminder:

     

    • #37
  8. Gary McVey Contributor
    Gary McVey
    @GaryMcVey

    Ricochet was co-founded by a witty writer of sitcoms, and even a cyber-eternity later, there’s a lingering appreciation for the eternal comedy rhythm of set-up-joke, set-up-the-next-joke. We get it. 

    But sometimes, come on. Who are we kidding? When we wander off into complaining about the war-nographers who the GOPe gang left in charge of GWB’s hollow administration, out of thousands of R> members, who looked at the blatant flaws in that political coalition and said, yeah, this time it’s Kerry, or Obama, or Clinton, or Biden? A relative handful of people. 

    I ask because there’s an awful lot of amnesia out there about the post 9/11 world.  Yeah, we can gripe about the neocon worldview and what it did to American priorities about spending and about foreign relations. But don’t gripe like the Martians made us do it. 

    • #38
  9. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    kedavis (View Comment):

    It’s pretty simple math, the only reason someone wouldn’t understand it is if they are even simpler.

    Not voting for the Republican, WHOEVER it is, in ANY election, is a net +1 for the Democrat, WHOEVER it is.

    Actually voting for the Democrat, as some self-proclaimed Republicans have done, is a net +2 for the Democrat.

     

     

    And, a reminder:

     

    That’s interesting. Maybe a separate post?

    • #39
  10. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    So what? If Haley or DeSantis were nominated and won the election that’s a win for a Unified Administrative State.

    You have really convinced yourself of this?   Your response is more about you than about DeSantis or Haley.

    I like neither Romney nor McCain.    Either would have left the country in much better shape than Obama.

    • #40
  11. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    kedavis (View Comment):

    It’s pretty simple math, the only reason someone wouldn’t understand it is if they are even simpler.

    Not voting for the Republican, WHOEVER it is, in ANY election, is a net +1 for the Democrat, WHOEVER it is.

    Actually voting for the Democrat, as some self-proclaimed Republicans have done, is a net +2 for the Democrat.

     

     

    And, a reminder:

     

    A vote for Trump is a vote for Trump.  A vote for Harris is a Vote for Harris.   Not voting, or voting 3rd party is not voting for either.    You don’t know Math.   I use Math every day in my profession.

    • #41
  12. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    You have a remarkable ability to hear things that aren’t being said. I haven’t insulted anyone. I just said that the assumption that substituting Haley for Trump would give better results in the general is wrong and I’m sick of hearing it. A man much smarter than I once said, “Look for the hidden assumption.” The assumption(s) here is that Haley would pick up NeverTrumpers and not lose anyone from Trump’s base. I think that’s a false assumption and I can name two voters who would not vote for Haley: Rand Paul and I. Paul put together a “NeverNikki” website describing why. Maybe it’s still out there though it is OBE now.

    I would have voted for DeSantis, but that also is OBE.

    I truly believe most Republican candidates would have done better than Trump.   He barely beat the most hated woman in America (Hillary),  lost to a serial loser and brain dead idiot (Biden).   The Party did not do well under him in 2018, 2020,  and 2022.

    Trump is truly the most deeply loved person in American politics.   He is also the most deeply hated.  On net, in the general populace ( including non Republicans),  I am not sure if he pulls in more people to vote for him or pulls in more people to vote against him.   Strong in the Republican party, but not a strong general election candidate – at all.  Nominating him was suicide.

    • #42
  13. E. Kent Golding Moderator
    E. Kent Golding
    @EKentGolding

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

     

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    When Trump loses,  we all lose.  Including both Trump supporters and Trump opponents.   Knock off the profanity.

    • #43
  14. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    I look at it a different way.

    We will still have the Administrative State, either way.

    If Harris is President we have a Unified Administrative State in a good position to strengthen itself and subdue the people.

    If Trump is President there will be no Unified Administrative State but the conflict between the people and the State will intensify.

    The terms Right, Left, Republican, and Democrat are no longer definitive.

    Doesn’t change the point of your post and I agree with that.

    Horrifying point I wish I could disagree with. 

    It does seem to me that much of the Public Right is on the side of the Blob. 

    • #44
  15. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    Public Right not supporting Haley would be supporting Harris. 

    Now, as Haley is a more to the liking of the Public Right, I doubt there would be what we see now. 

    • #45
  16. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    You have a remarkable ability to hear things that aren’t being said. I haven’t insulted anyone. I just said that the assumption that substituting Haley for Trump would give better results in the general is wrong and I’m sick of hearing it. A man much smarter than I once said, “Look for the hidden assumption.” The assumption(s) here is that Haley would pick up NeverTrumpers and not lose anyone from Trump’s base. I think that’s a false assumption and I can name two voters who would not vote for Haley: Rand Paul and I. Paul put together a “NeverNikki” website describing why. Maybe it’s still out there though it is OBE now.

    I would have voted for DeSantis, but that also is OBE.

    Sorry – I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned insults. I had in mind the items listed in the original post – they don’t care about the country, it’s all about feeling good about themselves, blah blah blah. I understand it’s just venting and anger, but it really does oversimplify the reasons one might sit out this election.

    I did not “insult” anyone. I stated a fact. Someone on the Public Right who comes out against Trump is supporting Harris. I don’t see what is so insulting about that. 

    • #46
  17. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    The best pro-Trump argument in 2016 came from a woman (could have been Mollie): “Yes, he’s not a good moral conscience, but I’m not looking for a husband I can love; I’m looking for a bodyguard who can do the job. It’s not a sentimental relationship on either side.”

    I have read on Ricochet and elsewhere, about a thousand times, a variation of “Get this straight. I’m voting Republican on November 5, but don’t forget, I’m not a Republican, I’m not a member of GOPe, I’m a proud Trump person.”

    Fine. I’ll be standing next to you at the polling place in November. But get this straight: I’m not a Trump person. I’m a proud Republican. Trump was often a powerful advocate of GOP causes, but not always, and when he wasn’t I usually disagreed with him. But for all the endless insults of the GOP on this site, he was our Republican president.

    So if you want to disdain my vote, go ahead, but I doubt Trump disdains it. Fact is, he couldn’t have pulled off 2016 without a lot of non-Republican votes too. He got a lot of independents and fed-up Democrats.

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Not sure where the “disdain my vote” comes from. Who did that?

    • #47
  18. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

     

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    The Public Right who is Against Trump(tm) explicitly called for Trump to support the eventual Nominee in 2016. Then those same people refused to support Trump. 

     

    • #48
  19. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    What a bizarre message. Who is it that wanted you to vote for McCain and Romney? Not me. Frankly I don’t understand this, maybe because I vote based on my own judgement and assessment of the situation. I don’t vote a certain way because I’m told to (and who is this that is doing the telling?). Your mileage may vary.

    Do you consider yourself part of the Public Right, Jean? I don’t think of you that way. You are a poster and moderator on an Internet BBS. 

    • #49
  20. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Gary McVey (View Comment):

     

    Anyone trying to turn this into a right-wing ‘base” election is writing a prescription for defeat.

    Absolutely. Does the Trump base understand this?

    Seems to me a big part of the message – perhaps most or even all of it – is something like “We voted for your McCain and Romney, now it’s your turn to vote for our Trump. And if you won’t, it’s ‘screw YOU,’ not us.”

    When Trump loses, we all lose. Including both Trump supporters and Trump opponents. Knock off the profanity.

    How true. 

    I wonder then, how it is, that members of the Public Right won’t support Trump and therefore support Harris. 

     

    • #50
  21. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    I find this discussion amusing and enlightening.

    Conclusions:

    The voter base for both political parties varies in viewpoint from state to state.

    This was true at the Founding as well and the Constitution included specific language about where the authority rest for electing the President and that Constitutional provision remains intact: State legislatures.

    Americans have cleaned up many of the things the Founders didn’t quite put the finishing touches on but this one they messed up when it was moved to statewide popular vote. Two others were the 16th and 17th Amendments. 

    These moves were big deals in terms of how the country has been shaped politically.

    They create the arguments we see in these comments coming from voters who live in completely incomparable communities, but, for the most part, they only get this binary choice unless they sit it out.

    The founders set the choosing of the POTUS to be a decision of the people’s elected state representatives and if we still did that we would not have this discussion.

    People will not think and act the same across such large swaths of diversity.

    • #51
  22. Stad Coolidge
    Stad
    @Stad

    To those folks who think they’re taking a principled stand by not voting for Trump:

    Is it principled to allow evil to flourish?  Because if the Democrats win, you can bet we’ll be living in a deeper Hell than we are now . . .

    • #52
  23. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Stad (View Comment):

    To those folks who think they’re taking a principled stand by not voting for Trump:

    Is it principled to allow evil to flourish? Because if the Democrats win, you can bet we’ll be living in a deeper Hell than we are now . . .

    Well, I am really here talking about the Public Right, not John or Jane Doe Voter. 

    • #53
  24. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    To those folks who think they’re taking a principled stand by not voting for Trump:

    Is it principled to allow evil to flourish? Because if the Democrats win, you can bet we’ll be living in a deeper Hell than we are now . . .

    Well, I am really here talking about the Public Right, not John or Jane Doe Voter.

    Until last night, I didn’t know there was such a thing as a Public Right. 

    • #54
  25. Bob Thompson Member
    Bob Thompson
    @BobThompson

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    To those folks who think they’re taking a principled stand by not voting for Trump:

    Is it principled to allow evil to flourish? Because if the Democrats win, you can bet we’ll be living in a deeper Hell than we are now . . .

    Well, I am really here talking about the Public Right, not John or Jane Doe Voter.

    What’s funny about the behaviors of the Public Right is it is they who gave us Trump as President in the beginning. 

    • #55
  26. Bryan G. Stephens Inactive
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Bob Thompson (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Stad (View Comment):

    To those folks who think they’re taking a principled stand by not voting for Trump:

    Is it principled to allow evil to flourish? Because if the Democrats win, you can bet we’ll be living in a deeper Hell than we are now . . .

    Well, I am really here talking about the Public Right, not John or Jane Doe Voter.

    What’s funny about the behaviors of the Public Right is it is they who gave us Trump as President in the beginning.

    This is true. By the GOP taking the voter base for granted, not delivering on promises, the consistent support of the Public Right helped to create Trump. 

    Had the GOP and the Public Right addressed the needs of the social conservatives and actually tried to fight the culture war, maybe we would not be here. 

    • #56
  27. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    You have a remarkable ability to hear things that aren’t being said. I haven’t insulted anyone. I just said that the assumption that substituting Haley for Trump would give better results in the general is wrong and I’m sick of hearing it. A man much smarter than I once said, “Look for the hidden assumption.” The assumption(s) here is that Haley would pick up NeverTrumpers and not lose anyone from Trump’s base. I think that’s a false assumption and I can name two voters who would not vote for Haley: Rand Paul and I. Paul put together a “NeverNikki” website describing why. Maybe it’s still out there though it is OBE now.

    I would have voted for DeSantis, but that also is OBE.

    I truly believe most Republican candidates would have done better than Trump. He barely beat the most hated woman in America (Hillary), lost to a serial loser and brain dead idiot (Biden). The Party did not do well under him in 2018, 2020, and 2022.

    Trump is truly the most deeply loved person in American politics. He is also the most deeply hated. On net, in the general populace ( including non Republicans), I am not sure if he pulls in more people to vote for him or pulls in more people to vote against him. Strong in the Republican party, but not a strong general election candidate – at all. Nominating him was suicide.

    Nominating Nikki might have been suicide as well. I’m reasonably sure that there were more people who would not have voted for her than just myself and Rand Paul. 

    • #57
  28. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    You have a remarkable ability to hear things that aren’t being said. I haven’t insulted anyone. I just said that the assumption that substituting Haley for Trump would give better results in the general is wrong and I’m sick of hearing it. A man much smarter than I once said, “Look for the hidden assumption.” The assumption(s) here is that Haley would pick up NeverTrumpers and not lose anyone from Trump’s base. I think that’s a false assumption and I can name two voters who would not vote for Haley: Rand Paul and I. Paul put together a “NeverNikki” website describing why. Maybe it’s still out there though it is OBE now.

    I would have voted for DeSantis, but that also is OBE.

    Sorry – I wasn’t referring to you when I mentioned insults. I had in mind the items listed in the original post – they don’t care about the country, it’s all about feeling good about themselves, blah blah blah. I understand it’s just venting and anger, but it really does oversimplify the reasons one might sit out this election.

    I did not “insult” anyone. I stated a fact. Someone on the Public Right who comes out against Trump is supporting Harris. I don’t see what is so insulting about that.

    Read more carefully. 

    • #58
  29. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    Django (View Comment):

    E. Kent Golding (View Comment):

    If Trump loses, I blame Trump and the people who voted for him in the primaries. DeSantis and Haley always had a better shot in the General.

    I am sick of hearing this nonsense. The assumption seems to be that switching out Trump for Haley would not have cost any votes. Not true. A lot of Trump people simply would not have voted for Haley. They might have left the top slot blank or maybe not bothered to vote at all.

    What?? It wouldn’t have been a binary choice if Haley had won? By the “logic” of this post, if Haley had won and it was now a contest between Haley and Harris, then “a lot of Trump people,” as you refer to them, would be supporting Harris if they didn’t vote for Haley.

     

    And?

    And so just as Trump supporters might have their reasons for not voting for Haley, if she was the candidate, so Trump skeptics might have their reasons. Calling the election “binary” is an oversimplification – not all of us live in swing states, and some people might be single-issue voters whose concerns aren’t being addressed by either candidate. No doubt other voters have other reasons not to vote. But by all means, go on and insult them! Now that’s the way to persuade…

    You have a remarkable ability to hear things that aren’t being said. I haven’t insulted anyone. I just said that the assumption that substituting Haley for Trump would give better results in the general is wrong and I’m sick of hearing it. A man much smarter than I once said, “Look for the hidden assumption.” The assumption(s) here is that Haley would pick up NeverTrumpers and not lose anyone from Trump’s base. I think that’s a false assumption and I can name two voters who would not vote for Haley: Rand Paul and I. Paul put together a “NeverNikki” website describing why. Maybe it’s still out there though it is OBE now.

    I would have voted for DeSantis, but that also is OBE.

    I truly believe most Republican candidates would have done better than Trump. He barely beat the most hated woman in America (Hillary), lost to a serial loser and brain dead idiot (Biden). The Party did not do well under him in 2018, 2020, and 2022.

    Trump is truly the most deeply loved person in American politics. He is also the most deeply hated. On net, in the general populace ( including non Republicans), I am not sure if he pulls in more people to vote for him or pulls in more people to vote against him. Strong in the Republican party, but not a strong general election candidate – at all. Nominating him was suicide.

    Nominating Nikki might have been suicide as well. I’m reasonably sure that there were more people who would not have voted for her than just myself and Rand Paul.

    Maybe. And would Bryan be insisting, as he does now, that it’s a binary choice, and not voting for Haley is the same as voting for Harris? That those who won’t vote for Haley don’t care about the country, or how Biden and Harris have hurt it?

    I doubt it. The real message is very simple – vote the way I want you to vote, or you stink. Great message. Very compelling.

    • #59
  30. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    Django (View Comment):
    Nominating Nikki might have been suicide as well. I’m reasonably sure that there were more people who would not have voted for her than just myself and Rand Paul. 

    I might have found it harder to vote for her than for Trump.  She was good on only one issue, and she was very bad on some others.   

    • #60
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