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Jordan and Camille Sort Out the World
It’s been exactly six years since I wrote Jordan and Camille’s Excellent Adventure, the focus of which was a lengthy conversation between Jordan Peterson and Camille Paglia.
A couple of recent posts on societal collapse and the the parlous state of Western Civilization, Good Times Create Weak Men, by @henryracette, and It’s the single chicks, stupid, by @oldbathos, together with a random smattering of comments throughout, brought it vividly to mind, so I’m taking the liberty of including an extract from the original post here, together with a link to the YouTube video (it’s an hour and forty-three minutes long, so it’s a commitment), but here you go:
…and I came across a YouTube video in which he engages Camille Paglia for about an hour and three-quarters of vigorous discussion (she doesn’t do any other kind).
Clearly, these two are on the same wavelength. But so different. The very bright, but very dour man of few words, and the brilliant, explosive, very verbal, very mouthy old broad (I think she’d be OK with that description). It’s an interesting pairing.
For the first thirty minutes or so, Camille gives the most lucid and rational explanation I’ve ever heard of what has gone wrong in American academia from the 1970s onwards. (I was there. I remember.) It’s just masterful. And then it’s on to the patriarchy, an entertaining romp through history, art and culture, why the world evolved the way it did, why things are in the mess they are, and what, if anything can be done to repair the damage–Must women save the world? Must men stand up for themselves? What happens if nothing happens–Is Western Civilization Doomed?
The two of them energize and play off each other, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I don’t agree with everything either of them said, and there are a few non-sequiturs and, I think, a few holes in their arguments at one point or another. But it’s a free-form discussion where they play off each others’ ideas, not a formal lecture. And rather than drone on as to what I think is problematic about it, I’d rather, if you’re interested and up for it, you have a listen yourself, and see what you think.
For those of you who may not know much of Camille Paglia, there’s always a certain amount of cognitive dissonance for me in the fact that this particular anti-feminist who speaks so eloquently about, and in defense of, the “patriarchy,” the Western Canon, and the traditional roles of men and women in society (I like her explanation of how those roles evolved better than just about any I’ve ever heard) is a seriously libertarian, pro-choice, lesbian/self-identified transgender classicist who’s been tearing up whatever pea-patch she’s been in, and causing trouble, as long as she’s been alive.
I loved this. I think it’s a hoot. They look as if they’re having a blast. Enjoy.
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Camille used to be the first byline I looked for on The Drudge Report, way back when The Drudge Report was informative.
Definitely worth watching. I enjoyed watching it years ago, and I also used to click on anything by Paglia.
She, I remember too. I was lucky enought to get in at the tail end of a good education in language, history, culture. Thank you for linking to this conversation. Love them both
I remember Camille’s links on Drudge, too! IIRC, she was writing regularly for Salon at the time. I also remember Rush’s fond reminiscences of sharing a cigar with her at some formal bash or other. I think part of the story had to do with the assembled company waiting for the two of them to come to fisticuffs, but as it turned out (unsurprisingly to me) they enjoyed each other’s company immensely and were good pals.
Thanks. Watching it today reminds me that–in my youth–I used to know stuff….
Me too. I think back on my wonderful high-school education (Bethel Park Senior High School; it’s been in the news lately), and feel sorry for so many of those who’ve come after. While much of what I learned there, and later in college (I was an English major), might be deemed useless in the wider context of a life, I know it’s stood me in good stead and that–without such a grounding–I might not have been so confident in taking the ultimately very worthwhile chances I did in life.
I loved Rush’s story about being intentionally seated with Camille Paglia at some event. People expected to watch some awkward fireworks. Instead, Rush and Camille hit it off and had a great time . . .