Who Is the American Octavian?

 

Col. Schlicter has a very good essay today in Town Hall.  I highly recommend it.

The crux of his piece is dead on.
America Is Not Yet Rome, But Democrats Better Worry That It Is Going That Way

No, what our patrician Democrats should fear is a challenger to the status quo who has learned from the experience of himself and others that there are no norms or rules, and the mos maiorum is useful only when cynically cited to justify one’s self-serving actions. This final challenger will be even more ruthless than his enemies, having learned that mercy is weakness and weakness means death. No, the Democrats need to worry about an American Augustus, and they need to understand that they are creating one.

Who is the American Octavian?  I ask because I see no realistic scenario in which we go back to the 1980s or even the 2000s.  The future is one of sharp and bloody elbows.  Thanks to the Fascist Democrats, every Presidency will now end the same way:  unpeacefully and with lawsuits.  Presidents will now have to blanket pardon their administrations when they leave.  The probability of an Augustus has never been higher.  I can think of 4 prominent Millenials who appear to have the skills and stones to fill that role.

I’m sorry to say, but history makes clear the overwhelming probability that this will not be resolved until a lot of blood has been shed.

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  1. DrewInNewMexico Member
    DrewInNewMexico
    @BishopWash

    We’ve been the Global American Empire for quite a while. Guess we’re taking the next step. 

    • #1
  2. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    No Caesar: I’m sorry to say, but history makes clear the overwhelming probability that this will not be resolved until a lot of blood has been shed.

    No, it doesn’t.

    History makes clear that sometimes there are political messes that lead to bloody civil wars, and sometimes there are political messes that do not.  Things got quite bad in the 1960s and 1970s — worse than today, I think — and then calmed down.

    If you want to use Roman examples, it is misleading to pick Octavian.  Yes, the Republic ended with Octavian.  But it did not end with Scipio Africanus, nor the Gracchi, nor Marius, Sulla, Pompey, or Caesar.  There was a descent from the Gracchi onwards, and periods of significant bloodshed in the periods of Sulla and Pompey/Caesar.  But the Republic did not immediately collapse, and lasted for a long time after Africanus.

     

    • #2
  3. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861 

    • #3
  4. James Lileks Contributor
    James Lileks
    @jameslileks

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day. 

    • #4
  5. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day.

    It did not have political show trials for the leading candidate of one party.

    I get it James. You are an Okedokeycon. Nothing is wrong and we just vote. 

    I disagree. With these trials, my right to vote for who I want is being taken from me. 

    So change my mind. Explain to me how this works out. Explain to me how a quest to shut out half the nation ends well.

    • #5
  6. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    https://ricochet.com/822533/keeping-track-of-election-fraud/comment-page-18/#comment-7187332

     

    • #6
  7. Western Chauvinist Member
    Western Chauvinist
    @WesternChauvinist

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day.

    It did not have political show trials for the leading candidate of one party.

    I get it James. You are an Okedokeycon. Nothing is wrong and we just vote.

    I disagree. With these trials, my right to vote for who I want is being taken from me.

    So change my mind. Explain to me how this works out. Explain to me how a quest to shut out half the nation ends well.

    It seems to me the biggest difference from the past is the character of the people. It’s been badly degraded by secular leftwing ideology, such that nearly 1/2 the country isn’t interested in due process and the rule of law so much as destroying the enemies of the “revolution” (fundamental transformation) — whatever it takes. *

    If I recall correctly, in the 70’s the revolutionary left was a small, small fraction of the population, and to the vast majority, “fairness” was a priority. That’s changed. It’s the law of the jungle now. 

    *Worth repeating here — at the height of the Soviet Union only 10% of the population belonged to the Communist Party. It doesn’t take a majority to direct the country in a bad way. It only requires the concentration of power being seized by the most ruthless.

    • #7
  8. Bryan G. Stephens Thatcher
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Western Chauvinist (View Comment):
    Worth repeating here — at the height of the Soviet Union only 10% of the population belonged to the Communist Party. It doesn’t take a majority to direct the country in a bad way. It only requires the concentration of power being seized by the most ruthless.

    Which is what we seem to have.

    I’d love to not think this way. No one has ever given me a realistic road map back. Vote Harder has not worked. I have dutifully votes GOP for decades. They have done nothing to stop any of this. 

     

    • #8
  9. GlennAmurgis Coolidge
    GlennAmurgis
    @GlennAmurgis

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day.

    Unfortunately, most of those terrorists became tenured professors. 

    • #9
  10. drlorentz Member
    drlorentz
    @drlorentz

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    You are an Okedokeycon.

    I like Okedokeycon but GrillerCon has more currency. There’s always NormieCon.

    • #10
  11. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day.

    Yes.  And it didn’t calm down until 1980.

    I think the crux is the wholesale two-track legal regime that is currently manifested.  That justice is blind undergirds the assumptions that allow broad civic differences to be settled by ballot not bullet.  That includes Prosecutors and Judges not abusing their positions for political ends.   And that includes Bills of Attainder, whether defacto or dejure.

    • #11
  12. No Caesar Thatcher
    No Caesar
    @NoCaesar

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    No Caesar: I’m sorry to say, but history makes clear the overwhelming probability that this will not be resolved until a lot of blood has been shed.

    No, it doesn’t.

    History makes clear that sometimes there are political messes that lead to bloody civil wars, and sometimes there are political messes that do not. Things got quite bad in the 1960s and 1970s — worse than today, I think — and then calmed down.

    If you want to use Roman examples, it is misleading to pick Octavian. Yes, the Republic ended with Octavian. But it did not end with Scipio Africanus, nor the Gracchi, nor Marius, Sulla, Pompey, or Caesar. There was a descent from the Gracchi onwards, and periods of significant bloodshed in the periods of Sulla and Pompey/Caesar. But the Republic did not immediately collapse, and lasted for a long time after Africanus.

     

    I think you amplified Col Schlicter’s point.  Read the article.

    • #12
  13. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    drlorentz (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):
    You are an Okedokeycon.

    I like Okedokeycon but GrillerCon has more currency. There’s always NormieCon.

    How do those rank compared with ThisIsFineCon?

     

    • #13
  14. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    No Caesar: I’m sorry to say, but history makes clear the overwhelming probability that this will not be resolved until a lot of blood has been shed.

    No, it doesn’t.

    History makes clear that sometimes there are political messes that lead to bloody civil wars, and sometimes there are political messes that do not. Things got quite bad in the 1960s and 1970s — worse than today, I think — and then calmed down.

    If you want to use Roman examples, it is misleading to pick Octavian. Yes, the Republic ended with Octavian. But it did not end with Scipio Africanus, nor the Gracchi, nor Marius, Sulla, Pompey, or Caesar. There was a descent from the Gracchi onwards, and periods of significant bloodshed in the periods of Sulla and Pompey/Caesar. But the Republic did not immediately collapse, and lasted for a long time after Africanus.

     

    You’re dead wrong that things were worse in the 60s and 70s.  The institutions were still intact. Fifty years of termites on the Left have rotted them from the inside and they no longer protect our nation.  It’s painfully obvious.  I see no way out of this that doesn’t lead to violence.

    • #14
  15. Kozak Member
    Kozak
    @Kozak

    James Lileks (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    It was not worse in the 60s and 70s. Not at all. 1861

    In 1971 and 1972, the US had 2500 left-wing terrorist bombings, with an average of five per day.

    In the 70s the Left was attacking the establishment.

    Today they ARE the establishment.

    • #15
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