Rewarding Terrorism

 

Don’t you admire countries that reward Arab terrorists and then deny that they are anti-Semitic? That’s what Spain, Norway and Ireland would have us believe as they declare their support of a Palestinian state. Their justifications for this move are absurd and dangerous.

Many countries want to get on that bandwagon:

Earlier in May, 143 of the 193 members of the U.N. General Assembly voted in favor of a resolution requesting Palestine become a full member of the U.N. It previously had U.N. observer status only.

Why is this proposal such a bad idea? First, it’s based on false premises:

‘In the midst of a war, with tens of thousands killed and injured, we must keep alive the only alternative that offers a political solution for Israelis and Palestinians alike: Two states, living side by side, in peace and security,’ said Norway’s Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre.

What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel? Why is it the only alternative? As if these expectations were not foolish enough, they also make demands that clearly punish Israel and favor the Palestinians:

The territorial demarcation between the state of Palestine and the state of Israel should be based on the pre-1967 borders, with Jerusalem as the capital of both states, and without prejudice to a final settlement on borders, including the use of land swaps . . .

At the same time as it recognises Palestine as a state, Norway also has clear expectations that the new Palestinian Government will continue the effort to implement democratic reform, strengthen the judiciary and combat corruption.

Do these expectations sound even remotely possible to you?

Needless to say, the Palestinians are celebrating these declarations. They see them as a recognition of the righteousness of their October 7 attack on Israel.

One puzzling statement I read made no sense:

In a few days, Norway will be chairing an international partner meeting about Palestine in Brussels, where the new Palestinian Prime Minister and Government will be presenting their reform plans. We are hoping to make some major progress there,’ said Mr Eide.

It seems that the Norwegians have already been facilitating the Palestinians forming their government and making plans. Did I miss that effort?

Norway is living in a delusional dream, as they make this statement:

The recognition of Palestine as a state means that Norway will consider Palestine to be an independent state with the rights and duties this entails. This includes, among other things, the expectation from Norway that all relations with  Palestine will be founded on the fundamental rules of international law regarding independence, equality and peaceful coexistence (italics are mine).

Whatever makes them think that the Palestinians will comply with their expectations is beyond my understanding.

To add to the lack of credibility of the Palestinians, outsiders are prepared to believe the Palestinian/Hamas public relations and disregard Israel’s. The outsiders have become convinced that the Palestinians are on the brink of famine (which they’ve claimed for months). That belief is contradicted by the evidence:

Specifically, the Israeli researchers found that on average, between January and April, 124 trucks carrying food and humanitarian aid entered Gaza per day. That adds up to 3,211 calories worth of nutrition per Gazan, per day. The World Health Organization standard for calorie consumption is 2,900 per day for average-sized men and 2,200 per day for average-sized women.

Unfortunately, if there is a shortage of food, Hamas is to blame as it collects the aid for its own members and families.

In addition, the Palestinians keep claiming that 35,000 casualties have resulted from the war. The facts are that a large percentage of those killed are Hamas soldiers, not civilians.

Their commitment to the truth is sadly lacking.

The consequences of these declarations are far-reaching. Think of the message this sends to Palestinians and Hamas:

The recognition of a Palestinian state, even if it is merely a symbolic action that has no bearing on the reality on the ground, sends two messages to the Palestinians. First, that terrorism against Jews is justified and worthwhile because the world, instead of punishing you, will reward you for your crimes.

Second, that the Palestinians will not need to negotiate thorny issues with Israel, such as borders and the status of Jerusalem, because the international community will grant them everything on a platter.

Israel has not been consulted in these efforts, which is not only an insult, but is impractical in many ways. These countries want to act as if these decisions are solely in the hands of the Palestinians, who have shown repeatedly that they support Hamas and even participated in the October 7 attack. To assume that the Palestinians will be peaceful neighbors is naïve; when they had the opportunity to govern without Israel, these were the steps they took:

Instead, Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups chose to use the funds to build ‘a city under a city’ — 400 miles of terrorist tunnels from which to attack Israel — because their true goal has always been, and remains, not to live next to Israel, but to replace Israel. Basically, as Hamas openly states in its charter, its aim to eliminate the only homeland of the Jewish people and murder as many Jews as possible. It appears that the Europeans wish to finish the task that Hitler started — the secret reason they are assisting the Palestinians in achieving this goal.

This will not end well.

 

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. J Climacus Member
    J Climacus
    @JClimacus

    Israel already offered a two-state solution back in the 90’s, which was rejected by the PLO.  Rabin was serious about it but it effectively called the PLO’s bluff. They don’t want two states. They want judenfrei. “From the river to the sea…”  and all that is ultimately non-negotiable, although they pretend otherwise occasionally for tactical reasons.

    • #1
  2. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    J Climacus (View Comment):

    Israel already offered a two-state solution back in the 90’s, which was rejected by the PLO. Rabin was serious about it but it effectively called the PLO’s bluff. They don’t want two states. They want judenfrei. “From the river to the sea…” and all that is ultimately non-negotiable, although they pretend otherwise occasionally for tactical reasons.

    You are correct, J. They don’t want two states. They have said that all along. And no one wants to believe them. 

    • #2
  3. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Jonas feels that a two state solution is the answer. Thinking has nothing to do with it.

    • #3
  4. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Percival (View Comment):

    Jonas feels that a two state solution is the answer. Thinking has nothing to do with it.

    I don’t have a better answer than Jonas’, but a two-state solution with the Palestinians next door is impossible.

    • #4
  5. Rodin Member
    Rodin
    @Rodin

    This is where mere insanity really becomes dangerous. 

    • #5
  6. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    Being from Ireland, I thought about creating my own post about this, but I am so embarrassed for my country that I decided not to. I have noted that this event has barely registered in the United States generally,  and I didn’t particularly want to draw attention to it. 

    The Irish Government is on the rack due to mishandling of a number of issues, particularly – but not only- housing, crime and immigration. Grandstanding about a foreign war is a welcome distraction for them. That we are due to have local elections and elections to the European Parliament on June 6th is of some significance. 

    The Irish Government has been extremely hostile to Israel since October 7th, even more so than previously. If we had a military worth speaking of, we might as well have declared war! Part of this is in order to “steal the clothes” of Sinn Féin, who are a serious threat to the Government and who are long-time allies of the PLO. That Party’s leader used a Palestinian flag as her social media avatar until very recently.

    It is routinely said that Irish people have a particular affinity with Palestinians because of a “shared history of occupation.” Certainly, the English did great damage here, particularly during the Great Famine of the 1840s, for which I will never forgive them. But I’m not so sure that our experience has been worse than most of the rest of Europe- we did not have Romans, or Mongols, or Moors, or Nazis, for instance. Our odious Taoiseach (Prime Minister), speaking at a Famine Memorial last week, drew a direct comparison between the Great Famine in Ireland, and the alleged use of “famine as a weapon of war” in Gaza. This is a man utterly without principles, other than the pursuit of power. He first ran for election as an ardent Pro-Lifer, and a few years later he led the campaign for repeal of our Constitutional protection of unborn life. Throwing Israel to the wolves wouldn’t have cost him a thought.

    There has been more negative reaction to the recognition than the Government might have expected. Most of this is based on the idea of rewarding Hamas for murder and rape- an accusation to which the Government has not responded convincingly. 

    The bottom line, as I have often said here on this and other issues, is that Ireland – in political terms- is a nation of one-eyed virtue signallers! 

     

    • #6
  7. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Charles Mark (View Comment):

    Being from Ireland, I thought about creating my own post about this, but I am so embarrassed for my country that I decided not to. I have noted that this event has barely registered in the United States generally, and I didn’t particularly want to draw attention to it.

    The Irish Government is on the rack due to mishandling of a number of issues, particularly – but not only- housing, crime and immigration. Grandstanding about a foreign war is a welcome distraction for them. That we are due to have local elections and elections to the European Parliament on June 6th is of some significance.

    The Irish Government has been extremely hostile to Israel since October 7th, even more so than previously. If we had a military worth speaking of, we might as well have declared war! Part of this is in order to “steal the clothes” of Sinn Féin, who are a serious threat to the Government and who are long-time allies of the PLO. That Party’s leader used a Palestinian flag as her social media avatar until very recently.

    It is routinely said that Irish people have a particular affinity with Palestinians because of a “shared history of occupation.” Certainly, the English did great damage here, particularly during the Great Famine of the 1840s, for which I will never forgive them. But I’m not so sure that our experience has been worse than most of the rest of Europe- we did not have Romans, or Mongols, or Moors, or Nazis, for instance. Our odious Taoiseach (Prime Minister), speaking at a Famine Memorial last week, drew a direct comparison between the Great Famine in Ireland, and the alleged use of “famine as a weapon of war” in Gaza. This is a man utterly without principles, other than the pursuit of power. He first ran for election as an ardent Pro-Lifer, and a few years later he led the campaign for repeal of our Constitutional protection of unborn life. Throwing Israel to the wolves wouldn’t have cost him a thought.

    There has been more negative reaction to the recognition than the Government might have expected. Most of this is based on the idea of rewarding Hamas for murder and rape- an accusation to which the Government has not responded convincingly.

    The bottom line, as I have often said here on this and other issues, is that Ireland – in political terms- is a nation of one-eyed virtue signallers!

     

    I’m so glad you’ve weighed in, Charles! Your first-hand experience and understanding contributes much to this topic, particularly in the case of Ireland. I’m glad that your citizens have demonstrated some pushback, but I doubt that it will make much of a difference. The rest of the world, it appears, will support the government’s decision. Thanks!

    • #7
  8. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Rudyard Kipling

    Dane-Geld

    It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
    To call upon a neighbour and to say: —
    “We invaded you last night–we are quite prepared to fight,
    Unless you pay us cash to go away.”

    And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
    And the people who ask it explain
    That you’ve only to pay ’em the Dane-geld
    And then you’ll get rid of the Dane!

    It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
    To puff and look important and to say: —
    “Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
    We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”

    And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
    But we’ve proved it again and again,
    That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
    You never get rid of the Dane.

    It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
    For fear they should succumb and go astray;
    So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
    You will find it better policy to say: —

    “We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
    No matter how trifling the cost;
    For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
    And the nation that pays it is lost!”

    • #8
  9. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) 🏴 Suspended
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I really admire the tenacity of Zionist propagandists, with their absurd and unfair framing of the issue.  I can’t help but be impressed with the chutzpah, with few exceptions.

    Netanyahu and Ban Gvir are exceptions.  I can’t summon even a grudging admiration for them.  Just visceral loathing.

    • #9
  10. Nohaaj Coolidge
    Nohaaj
    @Nohaaj

    The secret (not so secret) reason Ireland, Norway Spain and (Germany) are helping Hamas

     

    • Basically, as Hamas openly states in its charter, its aim to eliminate the only homeland of the Jewish people and murder as many Jews as possible. It appears that the Europeans wish to finish the task that Hitler started — the secret reason they are assisting the Palestinians in achieving this goal.

    • #10
  11. Miffed White Male Member
    Miffed White Male
    @MiffedWhiteMale

    Move the Palestinians to Norway, Spain and Ireland.

    Also, Israel and the US should formally recognize Basque as an independent state.

    • #11
  12. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Miffed White Male (View Comment):

    Move the Palestinians to Norway, Spain and Ireland.

    Also, Israel and the US should formally recognize Basque as an independent state.

    Very creative, MWM! Thanks!

    • #12
  13. Charles Mark Member
    Charles Mark
    @CharlesMark

    The three countries could have made recognition of “The State of Palestine” conditional upon the release of at least some hostages- women, children and/or the elderly, for instance. But they know well that Hamas would have laughed at them. 

    • #13
  14. Marjorie Reynolds Coolidge
    Marjorie Reynolds
    @MarjorieReynolds

    Charles Mark (View Comment):

    Being from Ireland, I thought about creating my own post about this, but I am so embarrassed for my country that I decided not to. I have noted that this event has barely registered in the United States generally, and I didn’t particularly want to draw attention to it.

    The Irish Government is on the rack due to mishandling of a number of issues, particularly – but not only- housing, crime and immigration. Grandstanding about a foreign war is a welcome distraction for them. That we are due to have local elections and elections to the European Parliament on June 6th is of some significance.

    The Irish Government has been extremely hostile to Israel since October 7th, even more so than previously. If we had a military worth speaking of, we might as well have declared war! Part of this is in order to “steal the clothes” of Sinn Féin, who are a serious threat to the Government and who are long-time allies of the PLO. That Party’s leader used a Palestinian flag as her social media avatar until very recently.

    It is routinely said that Irish people have a particular affinity with Palestinians because of a “shared history of occupation.” Certainly, the English did great damage here, particularly during the Great Famine of the 1840s, for which I will never forgive them. But I’m not so sure that our experience has been worse than most of the rest of Europe- we did not have Romans, or Mongols, or Moors, or Nazis, for instance. Our odious Taoiseach (Prime Minister), speaking at a Famine Memorial last week, drew a direct comparison between the Great Famine in Ireland, and the alleged use of “famine as a weapon of war” in Gaza. This is a man utterly without principles, other than the pursuit of power. He first ran for election as an ardent Pro-Lifer, and a few years later he led the campaign for repeal of our Constitutional protection of unborn life. Throwing Israel to the wolves wouldn’t have cost him a thought.

    There has been more negative reaction to the recognition than the Government might have expected. Most of this is based on the idea of rewarding Hamas for murder and rape- an accusation to which the Government has not responded convincingly.

    The bottom line, as I have often said here on this and other issues, is that Ireland – in political terms- is a nation of one-eyed virtue signallers!

     

    I want to echo what Charles has said. Whatever the government is doing is not reflective of what the ordinary person feels about it. Most people are exasperated that they would prioritise this over the numerous problems we have ourselves. I’m not around for the elections myself but hopefully they’ll get a kicking.

     

    • #14
  15. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Susan Quinn: What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel?

    Norway’s ruling elites are far-left. Bruce Bawer, who lives there, has written about this.

    • #15
  16. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I really admire the tenacity of Zionist propagandists, with their absurd and unfair framing of the issue. I can’t help but be impressed with the chutzpah, with few exceptions.

    Netanyahu and Ban Gvir are exceptions. I can’t summon even a grudging admiration for them. Just visceral loathing.

    Right back at you buddy.

    • #16
  17. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel?

    Norway’s ruling elites are far-left. Bruce Bawer, who lives there, has written about this.

    Norway is a very capitalist country with a big welfare state. Think Hong Kong with oil, more government expenditures and worse food. How are the rulers of Norway left-wing.

    • #17
  18. Susan Quinn Member
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel?

    Norway’s ruling elites are far-left. Bruce Bawer, who lives there, has written about this.

    Norway is a very capitalist country with a big welfare state. Think Hong Kong with oil, more government expenditures and worse food. How are the rulers of Norway left-wing.

    Does the welfare outweigh the capitalism?

    • #18
  19. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel?

    Norway’s ruling elites are far-left. Bruce Bawer, who lives there, has written about this.

    Norway is a very capitalist country with a big welfare state. Think Hong Kong with oil, more government expenditures and worse food. How are the rulers of Norway left-wing.

    Does the welfare outweigh the capitalism?

    Welfarism is congruent with capitalism. You have a thriving capitalist economy and then you fund a bunch of government handouts that don’t interfere with the capitalism. 

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff. 

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    • #19
  20. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff. 

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism.  That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations.  As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government.  That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds. 

    • #20
  21. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Susan Quinn: What world does Støre live in? What makes him think that the Palestinians would live in “peace and security” if they resided side-by-side with Israel?

    Norway’s ruling elites are far-left. Bruce Bawer, who lives there, has written about this.

    Norway is a very capitalist country with a big welfare state. Think Hong Kong with oil, more government expenditures and worse food. How are the rulers of Norway left-wing.

    They’ve got enough loot to be able to afford it.

    • #21
  22. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff.

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism. That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations. As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government. That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds.

    And America has lots of those sorts of leftists. Obama even told a group of historians that he favored corporatism.

    • #22
  23. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff.

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism. That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations. As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government. That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds.

    That is fascism and not Marxism. Fascism is quasi capitalistic because big corporations make an immense amount of money and operate semi-independently but will bend the knee to any government thing ever.

    • #23
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff.

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism. That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations. As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government. That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds.

    And America has lots of those sorts of leftists. Obama even told a group of historians that he favored corporatism.

    I would like to check out that link.

    • #24
  25. Seawriter Contributor
    Seawriter
    @Seawriter

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    That is fascism and not Marxism. Fascism is quasi capitalistic because big corporations make an immense amount of money and operate semi-independently but will bend the knee to any government thing ever.

    Fascism is just another form of Marxism – another form of feudal socialism. It is a distinction without a difference. It does work better than communism, where the government owns everything, but a whole lot worse than free-market capitalism.

    • #25
  26. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):
    That is fascism and not Marxism. Fascism is quasi capitalistic because big corporations make an immense amount of money and operate semi-independently but will bend the knee to any government thing ever.

    Fascism is just another form of Marxism – another form of feudal socialism. It is a distinction without a difference. It does work better than communism, where the government owns everything, but a whole lot worse than free-market capitalism.

    National socialism instead of international socialism, to put it in simplified terms.

    But we should never forget that leftists keep coming up with new ideological variations.

    • #26
  27. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    So we are venturing far away from Susan’s post. 

    But I suggest that fascism is practically feasible. The trains run on time in fascism/crony capitalism and you can make money and improve of the lives of the poor. 

    Marxism just does not produce wealth. 

    • #27
  28. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff.

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism. That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations. As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government. That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds.

    And America has lots of those sorts of leftists. Obama even told a group of historians that he favored corporatism.

    I would like to check out that link.

    Not sure–it’s been over a decade since I read about that. But Obama’s policies certainly fit a corporatist outlook.

     

    • #28
  29. AMD Texas Coolidge
    AMD Texas
    @DarinJohnson

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I really admire the tenacity of Zionist propagandists, with their absurd and unfair framing of the issue. I can’t help but be impressed with the chutzpah, with few exceptions.

    Netanyahu and Ban Gvir are exceptions. I can’t summon even a grudging admiration for them. Just visceral loathing.

    I have visceral loathing of anti-Semites and anti-Zionist propagandists. Take of that what you will

    • #29
  30. AMD Texas Coolidge
    AMD Texas
    @DarinJohnson

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Seawriter (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I miss the 1990s early 2000s. The left understood that you needed corporations to make enough wealth to fund the leftist welfare stuff.

    But modern leftists in America and Western Europe hate capitalism even though it funds all their nonsense.

    Leftists hate capitalism. That doesn’t mean they hate large corporations. As in all fascist systems, they love them – the bigger the better. They just want the corporations under the control (but not ownership) of the government. That gives them the corporate wealth necessary for welfare stuff while providing the government the desired plausible deniability if the corporations fail to provide the goods (shortfalls typically caused by government regulation and intervention). It’s the best of both worlds.

    That is fascism and not Marxism. Fascism is quasi capitalistic because big corporations make an immense amount of money and operate semi-independently but will bend the knee to any government thing ever.

    There’s not a nickels worth of difference between fascism and socialism.

    • #30
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