Alcohol-Free, or Free-Alcohol

 

Latest News from San Francisco

The City of San Francisco is providing free beer and vodka shots to homeless alcoholics at taxpayer expense under a little-known pilot program.

The “Managed Alcohol Program” operated by San Francisco’s Department of Public Health serves regimented doses of alcohol to voluntary participants with alcohol addiction in an effort to keep the homeless off the streets and relieve the city’s emergency services. Experts say the program can save or extend lives, but critics wonder if the government would be better off funding treatment and sobriety programs instead.

“Established in countries such as Canada and Australia, a managed alcohol program is usually administered by a nurse and trained support staff in a facility such as a homeless shelter or a transitional or permanent home, and is one method to minimize harm for those with alcohol use disorder,” the California Health Care Foundation explains in an 2020 article describing the pilot program.

According to some sources the program costs about $5 million a year and the city has spent about $20 million on a program that has attracted some interest from a national college and university fraternity.

I Phelta Thi has offered to help the taxpayers in San Francisco by giving up their annual spring break trip to Florida. Instead of lounging on a Florida beach, they will distribute the beer and vodka shots in SFO at no charge to taxpayers.

As one six-year member of Phelta House said, “We have a lot of experience in alcohol distribution, and this would be an ideal community service program to serve both the homeless and the taxpayers that pay the bills”.

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  1. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Me —

       The problem here is that the theory is wrong. The solution is to replace it with a correct one.    Not for our politicians to abandon all theories, which is to abandon thinking itself.

    Ye —

       Possibly.

       Or perhaps they should abandon trying to fix things that are not fixable.

    Me —

    You give a good example of using theory to determine the best political solution, and replacing their wrong theory with a correct one.

    (You mistook your EXAMPLE of the solution I gave for a REJECTION of it. Please re-read what I wrote, and if this is still not clear, let me know.)

    • #31
  2. OmegaPaladin Coolidge
    OmegaPaladin
    @OmegaPaladin

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Al French (View Comment):

    I’m not defending this ridiculous program, but just as information, hospitals provide alcoholic beverages to patients at risk of going into DTs.

    Reminds me of a bit from a fairly early episode of the series “ER.” They had a patient come in who had drunk something with antifreeze mixed in, and to clear his system they had to “flush” it with proper alcohol. They had no “official” alcohol on hand, though, so to avoid kidney/liver damage by waiting they used a bottle of booze that some homeless person had left behind. Dr Green wrote out a rather technical order/prescription to cover it, and Nurse Carol Hathaway said “Bourbon shooters it is!”

    There is a common enzyme that processes alcohols called alcohol dehydrogenase.  It processes ethyl (grain) alcohol eventually into acetic acid (vinegar).   Works well enough.

    However, it turns methyl (wood) alcohol into formaldehyde (embalming fluid) & formic acid (ant venom) .  Ethylene Glycol (antifreeze) gets turned into oxalic acid (descaler / poison in rhubarb leaves).  Nasty.   

    So you saturate the enzyme with booze, as it can only work so fast, and let the victim pee out the bad alcohol before it can be made toxic.   Incidentally, they will get plastered.

    • #32
  3. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    I think we should genetically engineer people to not be alcoholics. That’s the solution.

    There are some ways to do that without “genetic engineering” at least on a technology level. Starting with, don’t marry and have children with people who have alcoholism in their family line.

    That is where we give sex robots to people with physical and mental illnesses. 

    • #33
  4. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Back to the point of the post . . .

    I can understand how this might seem logical on a theoretical, academic basis if you ignore that real people are involved. I think the same logic drives the idea of government-sponsored places in which drug addicts can consume illegal drugs. But I don’t see how someone who is administering the actual drugs or alcohol, when faced with an actual human being, can support the continued poisoning of that human being.

    Every proposed political solution to a social problem is based on some theory accepted by the proponent that acknowledges that real people are involved, whether the proponent is conscious of basing his action a theory, or oblivious to the fact, or even actively denies it.

    To abandon theory is to act according to mindless impulses or muscular reflexes, like a pithed frog.

    The problem here is that the theory is wrong. The solution is to replace it with a correct one. Not for our politicians to abandon all theories, which is to abandon thinking itself.

    Did you like Jonah Goldberg’s second book?

    I don’t know the book so I may be missing something.

    I read his first two books. The first one was Liberal Fascism, and it was pretty good.

    The only thing I remember about the second book is that I read it. Not a good sign.

    I liked it. It was short but to the point. It was called Tyranny of Cliches. It’s argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.  

    • #34
  5. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Its argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.

    Then I would have liked it!

    There is a connection between that error of thinking, and the equally common one I refer to: of not recognizing that everything that one thinks is the result of theoretical, abstract thinking.

    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill, the one created accidentally when capitalism lifted the majority of the population out of a life of pure drudgery and grinding poverty into the affluent, partly self-governing class, where higher-level human skills are needed to function properly.

    • #35
  6. Arahant Member
    Arahant
    @Arahant

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill

    But higher education has been gutted and worn as a skin-suit by Marxists.

    • #36
  7. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    Arahant (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill

    But higher education has been gutted and worn as a skin-suit by Marxists.

    Very true.

    (That is, true of {higher education==the institutional units that go by that name and historically performed [higher education==the activity]}, the latter being that whereof I was a-speakin’.)

    • #37
  8. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Ray Gunner (View Comment):

    A quote from the news article:

    “Our goal at MAP is not to decrease the amount of alcohol that is consumed, or to taper someone towards abstinence, although both of these things have happened with clients in our program,” she said in the October presentation. “The goal is to mitigate the many health, legal and interpersonal harms associated with unsafe alcohol use.”

    IOW, this is hospice care for alcoholics drinking themselves to death.

    Separate from alcoholism, the government should have given away cheap hard drugs in a controlled locality instead of financially empowering organized crime. We have created one hell of a mess south of our border. They have so much money now, it’s too late to legalize drugs.

    • #38
  9. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs… (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Back to the point of the post . . .

    I can understand how this might seem logical on a theoretical, academic basis if you ignore that real people are involved. I think the same logic drives the idea of government-sponsored places in which drug addicts can consume illegal drugs. But I don’t see how someone who is administering the actual drugs or alcohol, when faced with an actual human being, can support the continued poisoning of that human being.

    Every proposed political solution to a social problem is based on some theory accepted by the proponent that acknowledges that real people are involved, whether the proponent is conscious of basing his action a theory, or oblivious to the fact, or even actively denies it.

    To abandon theory is to act according to mindless impulses or muscular reflexes, like a pithed frog.

    The problem here is that the theory is wrong. The solution is to replace it with a correct one. Not for our politicians to abandon all theories, which is to abandon thinking itself.

    Possibly.

    Or perhaps they should abandon trying to fix things that are not fixable.

    In any event, whenever they ‘help’ person A, persons B through U get the bill.

    DING! DING! DING!

    • #39
  10. RufusRJones Member
    RufusRJones
    @RufusRJones

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Full Size Tabby (View Comment):

    Back to the point of the post . . .

    I can understand how this might seem logical on a theoretical, academic basis if you ignore that real people are involved. I think the same logic drives the idea of government-sponsored places in which drug addicts can consume illegal drugs. But I don’t see how someone who is administering the actual drugs or alcohol, when faced with an actual human being, can support the continued poisoning of that human being.

    Every proposed political solution to a social problem is based on some theory accepted by the proponent that acknowledges that real people are involved, whether the proponent is conscious of basing his action a theory, or oblivious to the fact, or even actively denies it.

    To abandon theory is to act according to mindless impulses or muscular reflexes, like a pithed frog.

    The problem here is that the theory is wrong. The solution is to replace it with a correct one. Not for our politicians to abandon all theories, which is to abandon thinking itself.

    Did you like Jonah Goldberg’s second book?

    I don’t know the book so I may be missing something.

    I read his first two books. The first one was Liberal Fascism, and it was pretty good.

    The only thing I remember about the second book is that I read it. Not a good sign.

    I liked it. It was short but to the point. It was called Tyranny of Cliches. It’s argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.

    ME:

    Inflation is destructive.  It grows government and debt uncontrollably. It misallocates capital. We don’t measure it rightby a long`shot.

    You don’t need anything from government except actual “public goods”.

    It’s really good if you point a gun at everybody’s head for Social Security and Medicare if we run them right. We don’t. 

    That is my ideology

    • #40
  11. Jim George Inactive
    Jim George
    @JimGeorge

          Square profile picture The Babylon Bee @TheBabylonBee· Nancy Pelosi Begins Dressing As Hobo After Learning San Francisco Giving Vodka Shots To Homeless https://buff.ly/3WJDH5U

    Image

    • #41
  12. TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'. Coolidge
    TBA, sometimes known as 'Teebs'.
    @RobtGilsdorf

    Mark Camp (View Comment):
    the latter being that whereof I was a-speakin’

    And that there is writin’!

    • #42
  13. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Its argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.

    Then I would have liked it!

    There is a connection between that error of thinking, and the equally common one I refer to: of not recognizing that everything that one thinks is the result of theoretical, abstract thinking.

    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill, the one created accidentally when capitalism lifted the majority of the population out of a life of pure drudgery and grinding poverty into the affluent, partly self-governing class, where higher-level human skills are needed to function properly.

    Think of scientists they have explanations for how the physical world works. The explanations are based on data but the data still requires interpretation. And different scientists of equal intelligence and honesty can interpret things differently.

    • #43
  14. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Its argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.

    Then I would have liked it!

    There is a connection between that error of thinking, and the equally common one I refer to: of not recognizing that everything that one thinks is the result of theoretical, abstract thinking.

    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill, the one created accidentally when capitalism lifted the majority of the population out of a life of pure drudgery and grinding poverty into the affluent, partly self-governing class, where higher-level human skills are needed to function properly.

    Think of scientists they have explanations for how the physical world works. The explanations are based on data but the data still requires interpretation. And different scientists of equal intelligence and honesty can interpret things differently.

    At least for a while, until more evidence comes in disproving one or all of them.

    • #44
  15. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Its argument is that everyone always has an ideology. The problem with the left is that they think they are non-ideological.

    Then I would have liked it!

    There is a connection between that error of thinking, and the equally common one I refer to: of not recognizing that everything that one thinks is the result of theoretical, abstract thinking.

    Higher education is the only cure for this social ill, the one created accidentally when capitalism lifted the majority of the population out of a life of pure drudgery and grinding poverty into the affluent, partly self-governing class, where higher-level human skills are needed to function properly.

    Think of scientists they have explanations for how the physical world works. The explanations are based on data but the data still requires interpretation. And different scientists of equal intelligence and honesty can interpret things differently.

    Unless they’re talking biology, in which case they all have to parrot the 5,752+ gender variations, or they’re toast.

    • #45
  16. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Thanks for some great comments. As a former cop I see things like free alcohol for the homeless from a very basic level. When I first hit the streets, we had the option of a civil hold for intoxication and another facility to include individuals that could get a civil hold at a hospital for the mentally ill that had not committed a crime.

    That is gone now in the city I worked in and in cities around the US. Shortly before I left police work you had to beg someone to accept a 72-hour psych hold.

    I don’t think it’s a secret that the mentally ill are being ignored and some could be helped if they receive a civil hold. That may not work every time, but you have to try and save who you can.

    • #46
  17. Fritz Coolidge
    Fritz
    @Fritz

    The civil rights pendulum swung too far in the 60s and 70s, to allow seriously mentally ill people the legal power to decline any treatment or involuntary commitment. It is far beyond high time that the pendulum swing back.

    • #47
  18. Chuck Member
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Thanks for some great comments. As a former cop I see things like free alcohol for the homeless from a very basic level. When I first hit the streets, we had the option of a civil hold for intoxication and another facility to include individuals that could get a civil hold at a hospital for the mentally ill that had not committed a crime.

    That is gone now in the city I worked in and in cities around the US. Shortly before I left police work you had to beg someone to accept a 72-hour psych hold.

    I don’t think it’s a secret that the mentally ill are being ignored and some could be helped if they receive a civil hold. That may not work every time, but you have to try and save who you can.

    @dougwatt, would you explain for us ignoramuses what you mean by “civil hold”?

    • #48
  19. Doug Watt Member
    Doug Watt
    @DougWatt

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Thanks for some great comments. As a former cop I see things like free alcohol for the homeless from a very basic level. When I first hit the streets, we had the option of a civil hold for intoxication and another facility to include individuals that could get a civil hold at a hospital for the mentally ill that had not committed a crime.

    That is gone now in the city I worked in and in cities around the US. Shortly before I left police work you had to beg someone to accept a 72-hour psych hold.

    I don’t think it’s a secret that the mentally ill are being ignored and some could be helped if they receive a civil hold. That may not work every time, but you have to try and save who you can.

    @ dougwatt, would you explain for us ignoramuses what you mean by “civil hold”?

    A civil hold for an individual is not available on background checks, unlike like an arrest for a crime.

    • #49
  20. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Thanks for some great comments. As a former cop I see things like free alcohol for the homeless from a very basic level. When I first hit the streets, we had the option of a civil hold for intoxication and another facility to include individuals that could get a civil hold at a hospital for the mentally ill that had not committed a crime.

    That is gone now in the city I worked in and in cities around the US. Shortly before I left police work you had to beg someone to accept a 72-hour psych hold.

    I don’t think it’s a secret that the mentally ill are being ignored and some could be helped if they receive a civil hold. That may not work every time, but you have to try and save who you can.

    @ dougwatt, would you explain for us ignoramuses what you mean by “civil hold”?

    A civil hold for an individual is not available on background checks, unlike like an arrest for a crime.

    Family members won’t put their dangerous relatives in an institution if it can’t as a crime against their relatives but they might if it is a civil hold? I too am ignorant of this procedure. I am just guessing.

    • #50
  21. Mark Camp Member
    Mark Camp
    @MarkCamp

    “The explanations are based on data…”

    I believe that scientific explanations are based on theory, not data.

    • #51
  22. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    “The explanations are based on data…”

    I believe that scientific explanations are based on theory, not data.

    How about this. The explanations are based on theories and the theories are based on data. Is that better?

    However, my point and Jonah Goldberg’s point is that data doesn’t magically form itself into a theory. People interpret the data into a theory. Likewise, we need abstract thinking to interpret history, society and their own experiences. 

    My favorite example of this is an ultrasound of a baby. Many women are pro-choice until they see their first ultrasound. However, the leftists would look at an ultrasound and feel afraid for their children’s future because they won’t have access to abortion rights. Particularly if is an ultrasound of a girl. 

    • #52
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    “The explanations are based on data…”

    I believe that scientific explanations are based on theory, not data.

    How about this. The explanations are based on theories and the theories are based on data. Is that better?

    However, my point and Jonah Goldberg’s point is that data doesn’t magically form itself into a theory. People interpret the data into a theory. Likewise, we need abstract thinking to interpret history, society and their own experiences.

    My favorite example of this is an ultrasound of a baby. Many women are pro-choice until they see their first ultrasound. However, the leftists would look at an ultrasound and feel afraid for their children’s future because they won’t have access to abortion rights. Particularly if is an ultrasound of a girl.

    “Better to kill her than to bring her into a world without abortion rights.”

    • #53
  24. Henry Castaigne Member
    Henry Castaigne
    @HenryCastaigne

    kedavis (View Comment):

    Henry Castaigne (View Comment):

    Mark Camp (View Comment):

    “The explanations are based on data…”

    I believe that scientific explanations are based on theory, not data.

    How about this. The explanations are based on theories and the theories are based on data. Is that better?

    However, my point and Jonah Goldberg’s point is that data doesn’t magically form itself into a theory. People interpret the data into a theory. Likewise, we need abstract thinking to interpret history, society and their own experiences.

    My favorite example of this is an ultrasound of a baby. Many women are pro-choice until they see their first ultrasound. However, the leftists would look at an ultrasound and feel afraid for their children’s future because they won’t have access to abortion rights. Particularly if is an ultrasound of a girl.

    “Better to kill her than to bring her into a world without abortion rights.”

    For me I need to know about her mental and physical illnesses before deciding to abort or not. To me the decisive factor is suffering.

    I wrote in a post published a few years ago that, “According to Arthur Brookes, 50-60% of our happiness is genetic. Thusly, wouldn’t it make sense to kill kids who have a high chance of being unhappy for their entire lives?” The post got 124 comments and only four likes. 

    • #54
  25. KCK Member
    KCK
    @KCK

    Free cocktails. At last, a government program that we can all appreciate.

    • #55
  26. Old Bathos Member
    Old Bathos
    @OldBathos

    Doug Watt (View Comment):

    Thanks for some great comments. As a former cop I see things like free alcohol for the homeless from a very basic level. When I first hit the streets, we had the option of a civil hold for intoxication and another facility to include individuals that could get a civil hold at a hospital for the mentally ill that had not committed a crime.

    That is gone now in the city I worked in and in cities around the US. Shortly before I left police work you had to beg someone to accept a 72-hour psych hold.

    I don’t think it’s a secret that the mentally ill are being ignored and some could be helped if they receive a civil hold. That may not work every time, but you have to try and save who you can.

    An old former DC cop told me that it used to be policy that when the forecast called for very low nighttime temps, they would arrest bums for vagrancy, keep them in jail, and release them the next morning to keep them alive in the winter.  The ACLU got rid of vagrancy laws so they stopped doing that.

    I recall that by the early seventies, the anti-psychiatry notions of Thomas Szaz et al. combining a relativistic approach to determining sanity with civil libertarian concerns about involuntary commitment created lasting barriers to commitment. 

    I am not a big fan of psychiatry and tend to doubt the efficacy of pharmaceutical overkill but there are people who (a) can’t take care of themselves (b) do not have family or other connections to provide such care and (c) are disruptive or dangerous.  So even the pretense of treatment in facilities at least provides the benefit of delivering basic needs and protection against harms.

    • #56
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