New Book on Faith and Reason

 

There are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say about faith and reason:

  • It’s consistent with everything (or everything else) we know;
  • it has good evidence in its favor;
  • it’s something we can know independently of the evidence;
  • and it transcends reason.

And dang if those four things don’t all fit together!  I talk about some of this in my new book. The backstory of this book is in nine published articles dealing with faith and reason. This book improves those articles and adds one more as well as a philosophical dialogue.

Some of the backstory is on Ricochet, mostly around here:

Faith, Reason, and Beyond Reason: Essays on Epistemology and Theology is $37 at the moment from the publisher’s website. That’s US dollars. I’m sorry to say–not Zimbabwe or Hong Kong.  There should be a Kindle edition soon, which will probably be cheaper.

Update: Amazon still isn’t listing everything on my author page, but I do find a Kindle edition of the book available for $10.

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  1. Bryan G. Stephens 🚫 Banned
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Way, way too many steps to order. Made me create an account.

    That stinks. 

    Your publisher made me have to do a lot of steps. In 2024, I should just be able to buy something with one or two clicks. 

    You might give that feedback to your publisher. 

    I have ordered your book but it took me longer than it needed to and longer than it would be if it was an Amazon book. 

    I know that seems like nitpicking but the reality is in 2024 website. A republisher should make it a simple as possible to order something. This was not simple. This was not easy. It rejected my first password and I had to come up with something that Google gave me even though it didn’t tell me that was what I needed. 

    You should give your publisher that feedback. I came very close to not spending the money to buy your book simply because I was frustrated with the ability to try to log in to order your book. 

    That is unacceptable in 2024. 

    They should look into it. Used to look into it. 

    I look forward to reading your book.

    • #1
  2. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Way, way too many steps to order. Made me create an account.

    That stinks.

    Your publisher made me have to do a lot of steps. In 2024, I should just be able to buy something with one or two clicks.

    Oh dear.

    You might give that feedback to your publisher.

    Will make a note of it, and probably do so.  (No promises though.)

    I have ordered your book but it took me longer than it needed to and longer than it would be if it was an Amazon book.

    Amazon is taking its time, but it should be up there in a matter of days.

    I know that seems like nitpicking but the reality is in 2024 website. A republisher should make it a simple as possible to order something. This was not simple. This was not easy. It rejected my first password and I had to come up with something that Google gave me even though it didn’t tell me that was what I needed.

    You should give your publisher that feedback. I came very close to not spending the money to buy your book simply because I was frustrated with the ability to try to log in to order your book.

    That is unacceptable in 2024.

    They should look into it. Used to look into it.

    I look forward to reading your book.

    Thanks!  I’m honored.  You’re probably the first one to buy a copy!

    • #2
  3. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Way, way too many steps to order. Made me create an account.

    . . .

    I look forward to reading your book.

    Update: Amazon still isn’t listing everything on my author page, but I do find a Kindle edition of the book available for $10.  I’m not sure if you can cancel the order from the publisher page.

    • #3
  4. Bryan G. Stephens 🚫 Banned
    Bryan G. Stephens
    @BryanGStephens

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Bryan G. Stephens (View Comment):

    Way, way too many steps to order. Made me create an account.

    . . .

    I look forward to reading your book.

    Update: Amazon still isn’t listing everything on my author page, but I do find a Kindle edition of the book available for $10. I’m not sure if you can cancel the order from the publisher page.

    Nope. Need material book. 

    • #4
  5. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Yeah, you got another sale.

    My Kindle died years ago. I hope this Kindle for Web doesn’t have me climbing the walls …

    • #5
  6. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Percival (View Comment):

    Yeah, you got another sale.

    Thanks!

    • #6
  7. Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler Member
    Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler
    @Muleskinner

    Percival (View Comment):

    Yeah, you got another sale.

    Me too. 

    • #7
  8. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    I’ve made it all the way up to Chapter 1. I have questions and one highlighted passage.

    This is going to take a while.

    • #8
  9. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Muleskinner, Weasel Wrangler (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    Yeah, you got another sale.

    Me too.

    Thank you, kind Sir!

    • #9
  10. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Got the Kindle. You’ve got my college Comparative Religion juices flowing. And if your publisher will consider it, I’d love to audition to produce the audiobook. 

    • #10
  11. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Got the Kindle.

    Thanks!

    You’ve got my college Comparative Religion juices flowing. And if your publisher will consider it, I’d love to audition to produce the audiobook.

    Awesome!

    I don’t even know how that works.  Would you like me to try looking into it?

    • #11
  12. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Got the Kindle.

    Thanks!

    You’ve got my college Comparative Religion juices flowing. And if your publisher will consider it, I’d love to audition to produce the audiobook.

    Awesome!

    I don’t even know how that works. Would you like me to try looking into it?

    I’ll send you a PM rather than clutter up your thread with production stuff. 

    Enjoying the book so far. You’re a much better writer than many of the academics I have worked with.

    • #12
  13. WhoCares Inactive
    WhoCares
    @WhoCares

    What is confounding is that Islam is 0 for 4 on your bullet points yet here we are.

    • #13
  14. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    WhoCares (View Comment):

    What is confounding is that Islam is 0 for 4 on your bullet points yet here we are.

    Well, . . . I do like Allama Iqbal! He’s had an impact on the book.

    • #14
  15. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    • #15
  16. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    So they are friends, but they only get along when one yields to the other?

    • #16
  17. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    So they are friends, but they only get along when one yields to the other?

    When one (Reason) is grounded in the other (Faith). Reason (second order logic) has been mathematically proven to be inherently flawed. See Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems.

    • #17
  18. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    So they are friends, but they only get along when one yields to the other?

    When one (Reason) is grounded in the other (Faith). Reason (second order logic) has been mathematically proven to be inherently flawed. See Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems.

    Is the flaw rather in people who think reason can be complete?

    • #18
  19. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    The more I get into the book, the more I’m enjoying it. I’m revisiting some dusty old shelves in my head. There’s an undercurrent of excitement to it, as I’m reminded of wonderful deep dives into Christianity I have experienced. Even though my own faith is pretty much the wading pool: love God, love thy neighbor, all else is details. 

    The head of the Philosophy Department at Eisenhower College was Dr. James Campbell. Jamie conducted seminars in his living room at least once a month, featuring cookies baked by his five kids. For a complete dweeb from a small town, they were a big part of my learning how to be an adult, as well as approaching the ideas that we presented and discussed. In my epistemology class, we used his book, The Language of Religion,  as a textbook. Another textbook for that class was A Study in Scarlet, which gives you an idea of how eclectic it was. In my senior year he taught a class called Dead Seamanship; friends of his were translating the newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls, and Jamie used to get them via fax from Israel. Jamie was a remarkable man, a respected scholar who repeatedly refused prestigious teaching posts to stay at a college that was small enough to be friends with all the students. He passed five or six years ago, but I have his book on my desk.

    • #19
  20. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Percival (View Comment):

    I’ve made it all the way up to Chapter 1. I have questions and one highlighted passage.

    This is going to take a while.

    It’s worth it.

    • #20
  21. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    I’ve made it all the way up to Chapter 1. I have questions and one highlighted passage.

    This is going to take a while.

    It’s worth it.

    I had to look up particularism. There was more than one. So I had to look up the particular particularism. Fortunately, this didn’t lead to an infinite regression.

    • #21
  22. Douglas Pratt Coolidge
    Douglas Pratt
    @DouglasPratt

    Percival (View Comment):

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    I’ve made it all the way up to Chapter 1. I have questions and one highlighted passage.

    This is going to take a while.

    It’s worth it.

    I had to look up particularism. There was more than one. So I had to look up the particular particularism. Fortunately, this didn’t lead to an infinite regression.

    We used to have to keep track of various isms and schools and so forth for exams. We decided that there were two major tasks of being a philosopher: coming up with an interesting concept, and finding a memorable name for it that some other hotshot thinkmeister hadn’t used first. Preferably relevant to what you’re talking about, but not in all cases.  In the days of card catalogs, that was a chore. Google makes it faster if not easier. 

    • #22
  23. Nanocelt TheContrarian Member
    Nanocelt TheContrarian
    @NanoceltTheContrarian

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    So they are friends, but they only get along when one yields to the other?

    When one (Reason) is grounded in the other (Faith). Reason (second order logic) has been mathematically proven to be inherently flawed. See Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems.

    Is the flaw rather in people who think reason can be complete?

    Both

    • #23
  24. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    The more I get into the book, the more I’m enjoying it. I’m revisiting some dusty old shelves in my head. There’s an undercurrent of excitement to it, as I’m reminded of wonderful deep dives into Christianity I have experienced. Even though my own faith is pretty much the wading pool: love God, love thy neighbor, all else is details.

    The deeper you go, the more you find the shallows already had it covered.

    (Augustine thinks so anyway. I more or less agree!)

    The head of the Philosophy Department at Eisenhower College was Dr. James Campbell. Jamie conducted seminars in his living room at least once a month, featuring cookies baked by his five kids. For a complete dweeb from a small town, they were a big part of my learning how to be an adult, as well as approaching the ideas that we presented and discussed. In my epistemology class, we used his book, The Language of Religion, as a textbook. Another textbook for that class was A Study in Scarlet, which gives you an idea of how eclectic it was. In my senior year he taught a class called Dead Seamanship; friends of his were translating the newly discovered Dead Sea Scrolls, and Jamie used to get them via fax from Israel. Jamie was a remarkable man, a respected scholar who repeatedly refused prestigious teaching posts to stay at a college that was small enough to be friends with all the students. He passed five or six years ago, but I have his book on my desk.

    Wonderful!

    • #24
  25. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Nanocelt TheContrarian (View Comment):

    Kurt Gödel proved that reason is limited and inherently flawed. His interpretation of his own work was that it demonstrated that we can affirm the truth of what we cannot formally prove, eg, that humans are transcendent beings. That our reach exceeds our grasp. I’ll take faith over reason. Reason is what has gotten us into our postmodern mess. Reason without faith is lethal. The two are not “friends.” Once you have Faith, reason inevitably follows. Once you abandon faith and attempt to proceed with reason alone, you are doomed. Hence, Modernity.

    So they are friends, but they only get along when one yields to the other?

    When one (Reason) is grounded in the other (Faith). Reason (second order logic) has been mathematically proven to be inherently flawed. See Godel’s Incompleteness Theorems.

    Is the flaw rather in people who think reason can be complete?

    Both

    Hmm. I’m not following. Is a lack of total independence a flaw?

    • #25
  26. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):
    In my epistemology class, we used his book, The Language of Religion,  as a textbook.

    The internet isn’t telling me much about it. Feel like giving me any pointers?

    (Disclosure: Not very likely to buy or read it; too much to do already! But I might at least have a little curiosity satisfied about it, and maybe manage to categorize some of its main points and cite them in my next book on faith and reason.)

    Update: Good old Archive.org! I can borrow it for an hour at a time!

    • #26
  27. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Douglas Pratt (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    I’ve made it all the way up to Chapter 1. I have questions and one highlighted passage.

    This is going to take a while.

    It’s worth it.

    By the way, would you kind souls feel like leaving any starts or brief reviews on Amazon, GoodReads, or other online places where that sort of thing can be done?

    • #27
  28. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    There are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say about faith and reason:

    • It’s consistent with everything (or everything else) we know;
    • it has good evidence in its favor;
    • it’s something we can know independently of the evidence;
    • and it transcends reason.

    Ok, I know I’m being overly fussy here, but as your sentence is structured the object of your bullet points is “faith and reason” – two items. But your bullet points are singular – “It’s,”it.”

    • #28
  29. Saint Augustine Member
    Saint Augustine
    @SaintAugustine

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    There are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say about faith and reason:

    • It’s consistent with everything (or everything else) we know;
    • it has good evidence in its favor;
    • it’s something we can know independently of the evidence;
    • and it transcends reason.

    Ok, I know I’m being overly fussy here, but as your sentence is structured the object of your bullet points is “faith and reason” – two items. But your bullet points are singular – “It’s,”it.”

    No. The object of the bullet points is “faith (and particularly . . . Christianity.”

    But it was bad writing on my part to have “faith and reason” nearer to those pronouns. I probably should have said something like this:

    When talking about faith and reason, there are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say:

    • #29
  30. Painter Jean Moderator
    Painter Jean
    @PainterJean

    Saint Augustine (View Comment):

    Painter Jean (View Comment):

    There are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say about faith and reason:

    • It’s consistent with everything (or everything else) we know;
    • it has good evidence in its favor;
    • it’s something we can know independently of the evidence;
    • and it transcends reason.

    Ok, I know I’m being overly fussy here, but as your sentence is structured the object of your bullet points is “faith and reason” – two items. But your bullet points are singular – “It’s,”it.”

    No. The object of the bullet points is “faith (and particularly . . . Christianity.”

    But it was bad writing on my part to have “faith and reason” nearer to those pronouns. I probably should have said something like this:

    When talking about faith and reason, there are several things which defenders of faith (and particularly of Christianity) say:

    Yes, that’s better. (I do disagree with you about the structure as-is:  yes, I know you meant to have the bullet points about faith, but that’s not how it’s structured.)

    • #30
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