It’s Time for Adults to Act Like Adults

 

We’ve probably all heard the stories about young adults who graduate from college and proceed to move into their parents’ basements. Supposedly these people can’t make a decent living (since they graduated with useless degrees), so they camp out with mom and dad. Or they’re not quite ready to be fully out on their own. I have no idea about their prospects for the future: will they ever grow up?

photo courtesy of unsplash.com

The question is important because these folks may eventually leave their parents, at least physically, but will they ever mature into responsible, self-sufficient, hard-working people? I ask the question, because I believe two social issues are intersecting to cause major issues for our children: these dependent adults aren’t taking full responsibility for raising their children in a productive and helpful way, because they are, quite simply, dependent. And their dependency, coupled with their reluctance to discipline their children and the dominance of social media, are developing children who are not only dependent like their parents, but who are depressed, anxious and addicted to their phones.

Recently much in-depth research has been shared about the dangers of social media on children. The outcomes of children spending hours on their smartphones are alarming:

When it comes to our young people and their mental health, the news is not good. Suicide is the second-leading cause of death for people under 24 in the U.S., and a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report last year found 20 percent of the country’s 12-17-year-olds had had at least one depressive episode—results unlike anything the CDC had seen in thirty years of collecting such data. Its director of adolescent and school health, Kathlee Ethie, called the findings ‘devastating.’ She said, ‘Young people are telling us they are in crisis. The data really call on us to act.’

From Jonathan Haidt’s most recent book, The Anxious Generation, as well as the book he co-wrote with Greg Lukianoff, The Coddling of the American Mind, we learn the primary reasons behind this mental health crisis with young people. In an interview with Brian Kilmeade on Fox News, Haidt explains how we’ve arrived at this place: too much time on smartphones and indulging in social media. All the mental illnesses identified are caused, or at least exacerbated by, interactions on their phones. Instead of pursuing these debilitating activities, Haidt offers four norms for raising happy, productive children:

  1. Children shouldn’t be given smartphones before high school. If parents want them to have phones, they should be given flip phones.
  2. Teens should not be allowed to use social media before the age of 16.
  3. Children should not take their phones to school, or if they do, phones should be locked up first thing in the morning and only returned to students at the end of the school day.
  4. Parents need to stop hovering over their children and allow them more free play and time with their friends, just to “hang out.”

I suspect that Haidt also knows that trying to get parents to set limits for their children, many who themselves were raised in an overly dependent environment with helicopter parents, will be a serious challenge. He’s suggesting that parents now have to step into the adult world, and stop treating their children like their friends. They need to learn the importance of discipline, boundary management, setting time limits on phones, and stop being overly protective of their children. Stories of the past where children were kidnapped are rare; children can still search the internet on home computers for school assignments.

But parents must come out of their comfort zones. They must learn the importance of parenting their kids, who need to learn independence, how to take risks and to become confident in their own competence and worth.

It’s time for adults to finally become adults, and to let children be children.

Published in Culture
This post was promoted to the Main Feed by a Ricochet Editor at the recommendation of Ricochet members. Like this post? Want to comment? Join Ricochet’s community of conservatives and be part of the conversation. Join Ricochet for Free.

There are 96 comments.

Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.
  1. Brian Wyneken Member
    Brian Wyneken
    @BrianWyneken

    I’ll suggest a #5 to Mr. Haidt’s list: (5) Before you go outside the home, especially with your children, dress yourself as would an adult. If you’re not sure what that is, ask an old person.

    This may seem trivial and may seem off point but accepting the role of being an adult (especially when you don’t feel all that adult-like to yourself) is part of being perceived as an adult by children (and others). Wearing the costumes of adulthood is comparatively easy, which can help parents to accept and act on other parts of that role.

     

     

    • #1
  2. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    I’ll suggest a #5 to Mr. Haidt’s list: (5) Before you go outside the home, especially with your children, dress yourself as would an adult. If you’re not sure what that is, ask an old person.

    This may seem trivial and may seem off point but accepting the role of being an adult (especially when you don’t feel all that adult-like to yourself) is part of being perceived as an adult by children (and others). Wearing the costumes of adulthood is comparatively easy, which can help parents to accept and act on other parts of that role.

     

     

    Excellent point, Bryan! I’ve seen those people (mostly women) who try to look like their kids, and I’m embarrassed for them. I wonder how the kids feel. Be a grown-up!

    • #2
  3. Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. Coolidge
    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr.
    @BartholomewXerxesOgilvieJr

    I think another factor is the decline of teen jobs. It’s becoming less common for teenagers to have paying jobs, which is another form of coddling: it’s becoming expected that parents provide everything their kids need or want, with no expectation that the kids work for it. On top of that, the push for minimum wage to be a “living wage” means that the typical teenager job — which was never intended to be a living wage — is disappearing. Nobody should expect to support a family by flipping burgers; that should be a job for sixteen-year-olds.

    I have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree, and I’ve worked as a professional for more than thirty years. And yet I can say that the most important lessons I ever learned about functioning in the workplace are things I learned during my years working at a theme park. Today it’s more common for young people to graduate from college without having gained any practical experience of the world. I think that’s even more important than the fact that their degrees are worthless.

    • #3
  4. KCVolunteer Lincoln
    KCVolunteer
    @KCVolunteer

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    I’ll suggest a #5 to Mr. Haidt’s list: (5) Before you go outside the home, especially with your children, dress yourself as would an adult. If you’re not sure what that is, ask an old person.

    This may seem trivial and may seem off point but accepting the role of being an adult (especially when you don’t feel all that adult-like to yourself) is part of being perceived as an adult by children (and others). Wearing the costumes of adulthood is comparatively easy, which can help parents to accept and act on other parts of that role.

    I saw a woman, probably in her 30’s, in a grocery store wearing a tee shirt that said, “I can’t adult today.” My reaction was, just sad.

    Now get off my lawn.

    Just kidding about that last one.

    • #4
  5. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    I think another factor is the decline of teen jobs. It’s becoming less common for teenagers to have paying jobs, which is another form of coddling: it’s becoming expected that parents provide everything their kids need or want, with no expectation that the kids work for it. On top of that, the push for minimum wage to be a “living wage” means that the typical teenager job — which was never intended to be a living wage — is disappearing. Nobody should expect to support a family by flipping burgers; that should be a job for sixteen-year-olds.

    I have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree, and I’ve worked as a professional for more than thirty years. And yet I can say that the most important lessons I ever learned about functioning in the workplace are things I learned during my years working at a theme park. Today it’s more common for young people to graduate from college without having gained any practical experience of the world. I think that’s even more important than the fact that their degrees are worthless.

    All excellent points, BXO. At 15 I had my first job as a counter girl at a dry cleaning store. I not only handled cash, had to demonstrate courtesy to customers, but they trusted me to close up shop on the days I worked. There’s no way to duplicate the value of that experience.

    • #5
  6. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    KCVolunteer (View Comment):
    Just kidding about that last one.

    Oh, but I got a giggle from it!

    • #6
  7. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    If I have to adult for strangers, they can anticipate that the phrase “go to your room and think about what you’ve done” will be heard.

    • #7
  8. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Percival (View Comment):

    If I have to adult for strangers, they can anticipate that the phrase “go to your room and think about what you’ve done” will be heard.

    Fine, but how often do kids actually think about what they’ve done?  Or even adults, for that matter.

    • #8
  9. Brian Wyneken Member
    Brian Wyneken
    @BrianWyneken

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    If I have to adult for strangers, they can anticipate that the phrase “go to your room and think about what you’ve done” will be heard.

    Fine, but how often do kids actually think about what they’ve done? Or even adults, for that matter.

    I wonder, for I’ve had much to think about . . . eventually. Even at age 65 my initial impulse to any new folly is still to (1) look around for someone else to blame, and/or (2) manipulate the history to explain how my error was completely understandable under the circumstances. Maybe be the difference with age is that this impulse shortens in duration and also that you can usually say, “well, that’s not the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.”

    • #9
  10. Chuck Coolidge
    Chuck
    @Chuckles

    Brian Wyneken (View Comment):

    Chuck (View Comment):

    Percival (View Comment):

    If I have to adult for strangers, they can anticipate that the phrase “go to your room and think about what you’ve done” will be heard.

    Fine, but how often do kids actually think about what they’ve done? Or even adults, for that matter.

    I wonder, for I’ve had much to think about . . . eventually. Even at age 65 my initial impulse to any new folly is still to (1) look around for someone else to blame, and/or (2) manipulate the history to explain how my error was completely understandable under the circumstances. Maybe be the difference with age is that this impulse shortens in duration and also that you can usually say, “well, that’s not the dumbest thing I’ve ever done.”

    Could be worse – approaching the middle ages (77) I still (particularly) need forgiveness.  The undeniable fact that I’ve done worse is no excuse Rom 3:10ff)

    • #10
  11. Django Member
    Django
    @Django

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):

    I think another factor is the decline of teen jobs. It’s becoming less common for teenagers to have paying jobs, which is another form of coddling: it’s becoming expected that parents provide everything their kids need or want, with no expectation that the kids work for it. On top of that, the push for minimum wage to be a “living wage” means that the typical teenager job — which was never intended to be a living wage — is disappearing. Nobody should expect to support a family by flipping burgers; that should be a job for sixteen-year-olds.

    I have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree, and I’ve worked as a professional for more than thirty years. And yet I can say that the most important lessons I ever learned about functioning in the workplace are things I learned during my years working at a theme park. Today it’s more common for young people to graduate from college without having gained any practical experience of the world. I think that’s even more important than the fact that their degrees are worthless.

    Way back in the 1970s when Esquire magazine was well worth reading, someone wrote a short article for the magazine entitled Hard Truths About the Workplace. I thought I had misplaced the list but found it on an old computer before I recycled the hardware. It’s still relevant and still resented by most people in the workplace.  Item #1 is below. There are seventeen in all. 

    • #11
  12. Jimmy Carter Member
    Jimmy Carter
    @JimmyCarter

    I remember an article in National Review (maybe American  Spectator) in the 90s lamenting “casual Fridays” and how that was going to lead to lack of respect to bosses and employees’ positions.

    • #12
  13. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    It’s okay in your living room to walk around in furry tights and a white T-shirt and zories , or for a guy shorts, a tank top and crocks, but when you go out of the house you are going out into society; and respect for others and for society itself is important.  You’re not in your living room anymore, you’re with people you don’t know.

    But people treat the grocery store and the mall like it’s their living room, and that shows a high degree of callous self-absorption and self-entitlement.

    Children living on their cell phones out in public shows this same level of self-absorption and entitlement.

    The economy is harder now on young people than it was before, and I know kids with degrees in economics who want to move back in with their parents, because the cost of rent is too darn high, but living semi-detached off your parents is self-entitlement, too.  And living off your parents’ medical insurance is self-entitlement.  This all is: I deserve this.

    And self-entitlement is corollary to lack of boundaries.  Which is what parents walking around in public in house clothes is.  The parents make the mall their living room, and their kids make their parents’ basement their living rooms, too.

    Disrespect for boundaries and relying on the pardon of others is a demi form of narcissism.  And narcissism includes irresponsibility.  Again: I deserve this.

    Not working for your own physical survival and emotional thriving (that is, laziness) is a cardinal sign of irresponsibility.

    Maybe cell phones, which bring people interacting with you directly into your living room, degrades the idea of society and public spaces, cancel out boundaries, which promotes narcissism and ultimately irresponsibility.

    And a primary component of being an adult is taking responsibility.

    I know: conspiracy theory.  Or did I just restate your post?

    • #13
  14. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    But people treat the grocery store and the mall like it’s their living room

    Woman Kicked Out Of Walmart For Not Wearing Pajama Bottoms | Babylon Bee

    • #14
  15. OldPhil Coolidge
    OldPhil
    @OldPhil

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    I know kids with degrees in economics who want to move back in with their parents, because the cost of rent is too darn high

    So I was thinking back to when I was a “yoot” just out of college at 22. I couldn’t imagine moving back with my parents. My first full time job was worth about $600 per month (I still remember the annual salary) and my first apartment was $140/month, about 23% of my income. I guess I was lucky it wasn’t in NYC?

    • #15
  16. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    My kids will live at home (while contributing to the household) as long as is necessary to afford living on their own.

    My husband and I benefitted greatly by being of ready and having ability in the 2008 crash, buying our first house at a ridiculously low price with very low interest rates. But it was a blip. A moment.

    Housing costs have skyrocketed. If my kids manage to get an education and miraculously beat out the competition from immigrants in their field, they’ll be living at home for a while because employers don’t pay a living wage to skilled workers.

    I’m hoping we’ll be able to trade collateral on our current home for land somewhere and that YIMBY degenerates manage to get laws passed that allow for generational housing on one piece of land. That’s one thing migrants got right – households are contributory, not the modern American “ideal” of breadwinner + dependents. While contribution roles vary, everyone contributes.

    • #16
  17. Stina Member
    Stina
    @CM

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    I know kids with degrees in economics who want to move back in with their parents, because the cost of rent is too darn high

    So I was thinking back to when I was a “yoot” just out of college at 22. I couldn’t imagine moving back with my parents. My first full time job was worth about $600 per month (I still remember the annual salary) and my first apartment was $140/month, about 23% of my income. I guess I was lucky it wasn’t in NYC?

    Was talking to someone recently about rent being around 50% of their income and how undoable that is.

    • #17
  18. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Once upon a time, the advantage of majoring in Economics was at least then you would know why you can’t get a job.

    • #18
  19. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    Maybe cell phones, which bring people interacting with you directly into your living room, degrades the idea of society and public spaces, cancel out boundaries, and promotes narcissism and ultimately irresponsibility.

    I think you may have something here, GM! Like you said, “I deserve this.”

    • #19
  20. DonG (CAGW is a Scam) Coolidge
    DonG (CAGW is a Scam)
    @DonG

    5.  Teens should be prepared for the world by being taught how to be rabid anti-communists, anti-Marxists.

    • #20
  21. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    Stina (View Comment):

    My kids will live at home (while contributing to the household) as long as is necessary to afford living on their own.

    My husband and I benefitted greatly by being of ready and having ability in the 2008 crash, buying our first house at a ridiculously low price with very low interest rates. But it was a blip. A moment.

    Housing costs have skyrocketed. If my kids manage to get an education and miraculously beat out the competition from immigrants in their field, they’ll be living at home for a while because employers don’t pay a living wage to skilled workers.

    I’m hoping we’ll be able to trade collateral on our current home for land somewhere and that YIMBY degenerates manage to get laws passed that allow for generational housing on one piece of land. That’s one thing migrants got right – households are contributory, not the modern American “ideal” of breadwinner + dependents. While contribution roles vary, everyone contributes.

     

    Stina (View Comment):

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    I know kids with degrees in economics who want to move back in with their parents, because the cost of rent is too darn high

    So I was thinking back to when I was a “yoot” just out of college at 22. I couldn’t imagine moving back with my parents. My first full time job was worth about $600 per month (I still remember the annual salary) and my first apartment was $140/month, about 23% of my income. I guess I was lucky it wasn’t in NYC?

    Was talking to someone recently about rent being around 50% of their income and how undoable that is.

     

    I heard some business forecasters the other day predicting that, with illegal immigrant pressure on housing etc, they expect rents to stay fairly steady – albeit high – for the short term, but to really spike/skyrocket in about 2027.  One said something like “$1900 through 2027, then that becomes $4,000.”

    That may have been based on an assumption of “Four More Years” of FJB, but at least some of what they were looking at was more local issues, regulation etc.

    • #21
  22. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    OldPhil (View Comment):

    Globalitarian Misanthropist (View Comment):
    I know kids with degrees in economics who want to move back in with their parents, because the cost of rent is too darn high

    So I was thinking back to when I was a “yoot” just out of college at 22. I couldn’t imagine moving back with my parents. My first full time job was worth about $600 per month (I still remember the annual salary) and my first apartment was $140/month, about 23% of my income. I guess I was lucky it wasn’t in NYC?

    Well, right.  These kids went to college and were living in NYC.  Personally, I like extended families.  But there’s a thing about a man leaving his mother and father when he gets married.  That’s assuming he even wants to get married.  I don’t know what kids are going through with that these days.

    • #22
  23. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    And I’ve mentioned this in the past, just wish I’d saved a copy so I wouldn’t have to retype it all now.

    To put it more briefly than I probably did last time, When I was living in Phoenix, for a time there was a family across from me who had I think 6 kids.  There were often inter-sibling squabbles, with shouts of “I hate you!” etc.  And one of the daughters started having kids when she was 15, as I recall.  Two of her younger siblings, a boy and another girl, were thinking it was pretty much just fun:  enjoying playing with their sister’s babies, etc.

    At some point when things were calmer, I reminded the two younger siblings that at some point in the future, their parents would be gone and they would essentially have only each other.  At that point, remembering those “I hate yous!” would be regretted.

    I also pointed out that while playing with their sister’s babies might be fun, it also meant they themselves had two new roles:  Auntie Denise and Uncle Daniel.  Their expressions were unforgettable.  But I think – and I hope – it brought some deeper thoughts to them and helped them in the future.

    • #23
  24. Juliana Member
    Juliana
    @Juliana

    When my children were in elementary school I insisted they call our neighbors and the parents of their friends by Mr or Mrs. I also insisted on that title for myself. One mom I talked to told her daughter’s friends they could call her by her first name, and then regretted the familiarity.

    When I worked in an elementary school and the teachers would call their students ‘friends’ I made an attempt to point out how much authority in the classroom they were abrogating. A few listened politely and ignored me, some thought I was just old-fashioned, others understood the distinction and worked to regain what had been lost. The same effect (as noted above) is achieved when the teacher dresses like an adult in the classroom instead of a teenager or a hobo (I have seen both).

    If you don’t respect yourself as an adult and take on the responsibility of being an adult, why should your children (or students) treat you with respect? As I would tell the students in high school (and sometimes remind their parents) – it’s time to grow up.

     

    • #24
  25. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    I have a lot of respect for parents whose adult children are still living in the family home. I worked in a soup kitchen for about a year, and most days I left shaking my head: so many young people who had to have had parents somewhere. It was very sad.

    Parents know when they’ve screwed up. It’s really obvious when it is nest-leaving time. All the other families’ kids are gone, and theirs are still at home. We all make mistakes, and so do we parents. It’s what we do after the mistake that matters. Parents who continue to stick by their kids and try to help them have my complete admiration.

    I see pictures of the people living in tents in the areas that rim our major cities, and all I see are people who have no one to turn to. They gave in to temptation in some cases–drugs or alcohol–and it will have lifelong consequences. Then here is the high rate of suicide for young people. For children who don’t launch on time, the consequences are often dire.

    For me, parents who continue to try to help their kids are unsung and often much maligned heroes.

    • #25
  26. Susan Quinn Contributor
    Susan Quinn
    @SusanQuinn

    MarciN (View Comment):
    For me, parents who continue to try to help their kids are unsung and often much maligned heroes. 

    I think it depends on what you mean by “trying to help their kids”; there can be huge differences in how much they “help.” Are they completely supporting them, or are the kids working part-time jobs? Do the kids pay rent for staying at home, or are they taking free rent and board? Are the parents helping them look for work or are the kids hanging out in front of the TV? Are they saving up their pennies to be able to afford an apartment, or are they spending all of their paychecks? I think it’s important for the kids to do something to get out on their own. I realize sometimes they fall on hard times–lose a job unexpectedly in an unusual field, for example–but even then, they should be thinking about the future. I suspect you might agree, Marci, but I’m not sure you will.

    • #26
  27. kedavis Coolidge
    kedavis
    @kedavis

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I have a lot of respect for parents whose adult children are still living in the family home. I worked in a soup kitchen for about a year, and most days I left shaking my head: so many young people who had to have had parents somewhere. It was very sad.

    Parents know when they’ve screwed up. It’s really obvious when it is nest-leaving time. All the other families’ kids are gone, and theirs are still at home. We all make mistakes, and so do we parents. It’s what we do after the mistake that matters. Parents who continue to stick by their kids and try to help them have my complete admiration.

    I see pictures of the people living in tents the areas that rim our major cities, and all I see are people who have no one to turn to. They gave in to temptation in some cases–drugs or alcohol–and it will have lifelong consequences. Then here is the high rate of suicide for young people. For children who don’t launch on time, the consequences are often dire.

    For me, parents who continue to try to help their kids are unsung and often much maligned heroes.

    Isn’t that a bit self-contradictory?  Aren’t those children who “fail to launch” often the result of parents who helped them too much/too long?

    • #27
  28. David Foster Member
    David Foster
    @DavidFoster

    Bartholomew Xerxes Ogilvie, Jr. (View Comment):
    I have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree, and I’ve worked as a professional for more than thirty years. And yet I can say that the most important lessons I ever learned about functioning in the workplace are things I learned during my years working at a theme park.

    Jensen Huang of Nvidea, one of the most successful startup founders/CEOs ever, refers to Denny’s restaurant as his alma mater…he started out as a dishwasher, then got promoted to busboy.  Later, he and his associates did the initial planning for their startup at a booth in that restaurant.

    This whole video is well worth watching.

     

    • #28
  29. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    kedavis (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):

    I have a lot of respect for parents whose adult children are still living in the family home. I worked in a soup kitchen for about a year, and most days I left shaking my head: so many young people who had to have had parents somewhere. It was very sad.

    Parents know when they’ve screwed up. It’s really obvious when it is nest-leaving time. All the other families’ kids are gone, and theirs are still at home. We all make mistakes, and so do we parents. It’s what we do after the mistake that matters. Parents who continue to stick by their kids and try to help them have my complete admiration.

    I see pictures of the people living in tents the areas that rim our major cities, and all I see are people who have no one to turn to. They gave in to temptation in some cases–drugs or alcohol–and it will have lifelong consequences. Then here is the high rate of suicide for young people. For children who don’t launch on time, the consequences are often dire.

    For me, parents who continue to try to help their kids are unsung and often much maligned heroes.

    Isn’t that a bit self-contradictory? Aren’t those children who “fail to launch” often the result of parents who helped them too much/too long?

    That’s my point. The parents know they screwed up somewhere somehow. They can’t undo it at that point. 

     

     

    • #29
  30. MarciN Member
    MarciN
    @MarciN

    Susan Quinn (View Comment):

    MarciN (View Comment):
    For me, parents who continue to try to help their kids are unsung and often much maligned heroes.

    I think it depends on what you mean by “trying to help their kids”; there can be huge differences in how much they “help.” Are they completely supporting them, or are the kids working part-time jobs? Do the kids pay rent for staying at home, or are they taking free rent and board? Are the parents helping them look for work or are the kids hanging out in front of the TV? Are they saving up their pennies to be able to afford an apartment, or are they spending all of their paychecks? I think it’s important for the kids to do something to get out on their own. I realize sometimes they fall on hard times–lose a job unexpectedly in an unusual field, for example–but even then, they should be thinking about the future. I suspect you might agree, Marci, but I’m not sure you will.

    Every family and every situation is different from every other. 

    Life is hard. I admire people who hang in there, to try to fix it somehow. 

    • #30
Become a member to join the conversation. Or sign in if you're already a member.