A War Between Peoples (Part II)

 

Let’s set ourselves back a few years, shall we? Israel is established. It is a home for a population of refugees who’ve just been slaughtered on a world-unprecedented scale. They agree to a division of land, but the overwhelming reaction from the Arab population is to try to exterminate them (yes, “Arab.” The label “Palestinian” didn’t exist as a distinct ethnic group at that time). The fighters include Arab populations from villages and cities throughout the land. This was a peoples’ war then – every Jew was a target – man, woman and child.

The initial plan was to overwhelm Jewish settlements and exterminate their populations. A few places and peoples did not engage in this. Most prominent were the Bedouin and Druze who remain a central part of the State today – although as with any nomadic group in a modern society, the Bedouin have challenges. There was also a prominent village on the coast and Abu Ghosh (both populated, interestingly, by generally ‘less-Arab’ populations). Almost everyplace else – and with everyone else – extermination was the goal of the day. Again, it was a peoples’ war – not a war between armies. Jews near Arab villages were and are routinely attacked and massacred. Those who make the mistake of entering are murdered.

What is a reasonable response? Leave military villages everywhere to attack you at will. Leave your coastline populated by people who want you exterminated and can facilitate men and material from the sea?

No. If you want to survive, you drive some of that population out to establish militarily supportable areas. You have to. The alternative is death. You also establish a deterrent factor – responding to terrorism with a few raids that suggest that there will be a price for supporting genocide. Not a nice thing to do. Arguably unnecessary, but the argument could easily go the other way. Finally, you don’t stop the vast majority who flee (many of whom were told they’d come back to take Jewish lands and property once the massacre of Jews was complete.)

It sucks, but as a Jew in the region who wanted to survive, it was the only viable option. After all, the Arabs declared all Jews the enemy and joined in an attempt to follow up the Holocaust with version II – three years later. One of their leaders was the Mufti of Jerusalem, a confidant of Hitler who whipped the population up in an attempt to carry out his part of the final solution.

By the way, the hatred of peace was so strong that the only village on the coast that was willing to make peace (Jisr az Zarqa) still finds itself completely shut off from the rest of the Arab population, and today suffers very high rates of birth defects because nobody else will marry them.

Did Israel kill all the Arabs? No, not even close. Credible massacre victims number under 200. Did they drive all the Arabs out? Absolutely not. 20% of Israel’s population today is Arab. You will note that 0 – that’s ZERO – Jews were permitted to live in areas controlled by Arabs after 1948. This included ancient Jewish settlements that had had continual Jewish populations since the times of the Romans, like Hebron and central Jerusalem. ZERO Jews. Jews who even walked near the holiest site in Judaism were shot at from across the border. ZERO Jews are permitted to live in Palestinian areas today – but 20% of Israel is Arab.

With enemies like that, Israel was quite moderate in their expulsions. It was quite different than say:

  1. Arab expulsions of Jews (99.5% of Jews gone, 100% from Arab-controlled areas West of the Jordan River)
  2. Azerbaijani (92% Azeri) and Armenian (98% Armenian) mutual expulsions

Israel’s actions aren’t appalling. If we want to survive as a people – and I fully intend that we survive – we need to be able to protect ourselves from entire populations dedicated to our erasure.

To quote Golda Meir, “If we have to have a choice between dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image”

She also said, “When peace comes, we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons.”

I don’t want this war. We don’t want this war. But peace won’t be the return of millions who want us dead.

Peace will be those millions – and the Arab nations who have refused to integrate them for generations – accepting that Israel will remain. Peace will be when Jews do not have to fear massacre every time they leave the gate open.

If you want Israel to prostrate itself before the Nakba, perhaps the Arab nations could prostrate themselves before the numerous pogroms they conducted over hundreds of years? No? Perhaps Iraq, Jordan, Syria and Egypt could acknowledge their sins in 1948, 67 and 73? No? Of course not, because the blame game only goes one way. The Arabs attempted genocide again and again and they failed. But their pride demands that we ask forgiveness.

My oldest is going into the army in a year and a half. My next three, a year and a half after that. I don’t want them risking their lives to occupy a ****hole like Gaza or Nablus (which was Shechem and houses a major Jewish pilgrimage site, but was renamed Flavius Neopolis by the Romans and drove out its last Jews in 1936). But they will risk their lives to protect their people from those who still dream of our extermination. I would love love love for that to mean that they are never deployed anywhere. But that isn’t going to be the reality. 70% of Palestinians think Oct 7th was the right things to do – not just justified, but the right call strategically. So my kids will risk their lives not because they want to live in Shechem but because they want to live in peace.

This exterminationalist attitude predates the State of Israel and is why Israel has to be so damned aggressive to defend itself.

Predates the State of Israel? Why, yes. Here’s a list of Arab atrocities against Jews during the 1800s. No Israel to blame. When will these countries and peoples acknowledge their sins? If they won’t, then don’t expect us to commit ethnic suicide by beating our chests and inviting them to overwhelm us with their numbers.

(By the way, the Druze committed one of those massacres and we are completely at peace with them today.)

▪ 1800: New decree adopted in Yemen, prohibiting Jews from wearing new or good clothes. Jews were forbidden to ride mules or donkeys, and were sometimes rounded up for long, naked marches through the Roob al Khali desert.

▪ 1805: 1st pogrom in Ottoman Algeria against the Jews of Algiers after a famine. French consul Dubois-Thainville saves 200 Jews by sheltering them in his consulate.

▪ 1805: Exile of Jews from Algiers to Tunis and Livorno.

▪ 1805: The leader of the Jewish Nation of Algiers, Naphthalie Busnach, is killed while riots ravage the neighborhoods.

▪ 1806: Expulsion by fatwa of the Jews of Sali in Morocco.

▪ 1806: Ban on Moroccan Jews wearing Western clothing.

▪ 1806: The janissaries of the dey of Algiers massacre and pillage in the Jewish Quarter.

▪ 1807: Expulsion of Jews from Tetouan.

▪ 1808: 1st massacres in the Mellah ghetto, North Africa.

▪ 1815: The chief rabbi of Algiers, Isaac Aboulker, is beheaded during a riot.

▪ 1815: 2nd pogrom of Algiers, Ottoman Algeria.

▪ 1816: In Algeria, ban on carrying weapons for Jews and Christians.

▪ 1820: Massacres of Sahalu Lobiant, Ottoman Syria.

▪ 1828 : Pogrom de Baghdad, Iraq Ottoman.

▪ 1830: 3rd pogrom of Algeria, Ottoman Algeria.

▪ 1830: Start of the persecution of Jews in Persia, caused by the Russian advance in the Caucasus.

▪ 1830: Ethnic cleansing of Jews in Tabriz, Iran.

▪ 1834: 2nd pogrom of Hebron, Ottoman Palestine.

▪ 1834: Pogrom de Safed, Palestine Ottomane.

▪ 1838: Druze attack in Safed, Ottoman Palestine.

▪ 1839: Massacre of the Mashadi Jews, Iran.

▪ 1839: Forced conversion of surviving Jews from Mashadi.

▪ 1839: Campaign of forced conversions of Iranian Jews.

▪ 1840: Persecution of the Jews of Damascus; ritual murder case.

▪ 1840: Forced conversion of the Jews of Mashadi.

▪ 1841: Massive murders of Jews in Morocco; the sultan is obliged to consider the Jews as his personal property, which helps to protect them.

▪ 1840: Damascus, ritual murders (French Muslims and Christians kidnapped, tortured and killed Jewish children for entertainment), Ottoman Syria.

▪ 1844: 1st Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt.

▪ 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom, Liban Ottoman.

▪ 1847: Ethnic cleansing of Jews in Jerusalem, Ottoman Palestine.

▪ 1848: 1st pogrom of Damascus, Syria.

▪ 1848: Total disappearance of the Jews of Mashhad.

▪ 1850: 1st pogrom of Aleppo, Ottoman Syria.

▪ 1877 : 3rd massacre of Damanhur, Ottoman Egypt.

▪ 1877: Pogrom of Mansura, Ottoman Egypt.

▪ 1882: Massacre of Homs, Ottoman Syria.

▪ 1882: 3rd massacre of Alexandria, Ottoman Egypt.

▪ 1889: After the funeral of a rabbi, deemed too discreet, the Jewish cemetery of Baghdad was confiscated.

▪ 1889: Looting of the Jewish quarter of Baghdad.

▪ 1890: 2nd Cairo massacre, Ottoman Egypt.

▪ 1890: 3rd pogrom de Damascus, Ottoman Syria.

▪ 1891: 4th massacre of Damanahur, Ottoman Egypt.

(longer list here)

There are 2 billion Muslims who control 29 million square kilometers of land. There are 16 million Jews who control 22,000 square kilometers. We are less than 1% of the Muslim population and we have less than 0.1% of Muslim lands. But those 2 billion Muslims want those 16 million Jews and  their tiny sliver of land erased because we had the gall to do what we needed to defend ourselves against multiple attempts at genocidal slaughter.

What about the Palestinian side? I’ve quoted Yellowstone before in saying that evil is wanting to punish the world for what it inflicted on you. The Palestinians meet this to a T. They are angry at the world, punishing everybody right now (notice the global riots), and have contributed almost nothing to humankind aside from terrorism and some local cheese. Palestinian society is sick, it is evil. Justifiably angry, but still evil. But I do believe, as I have written many times, that it can be saved.

Certain contributors here have suggested the Jews are wanting to punish the world for what it has inflicted on us. Well, our track record doesn’t support that:

  • We are building up peoples around the world in numerous areas including agriculture, communications and health.
  • We regularly perform life-saving operations for Palestinians and Arabs from enemy states. Before and after Oct 7th, there have been Gazan cancer and heart patients receiving treatment in Israeli hospitals – to the extent that somehow we’re considered evil if we don’t extend our services to our enemies when they could have easily built their own healthcare capacity. You know, if they decided to establish a functioning society instead of a terror state. By contrast, a Druze auto-accident patient was murdered in his hospital bed in Jenin because they thought he might be Jewish. Honest mistake, you know…
  • WE massively expanded that fricking Al-Shifa Hospital. What hospital did the Palestinians or Arabs ever build for Jews? On the contrary, that lovely old Peace Now couple that used to drive Palestinians to medical appointments in Israel were taken hostage by Hamas.
  • We both offer and provide aid in earthquake-hit Muslim and Arab countries.
  • We aren’t angry at our enemies of the yester-generations (e.g. Germans or Druze).
  • Despite having the capability, we haven’t and have no plans to genocide Palestinians.
  • We withdrew from Gaza in 2005, hoping they’d actually build something other than the capability to attack us.

If Palestinians believe we are trying to punish the world for everything it did to us, then they are being willful idiots (or, more likely, trying to justify genocide). What we are trying to do is ensure that the world doesn’t get to do what they did (or tried to do, in the case of the Arabs) again.

The Iranian axis is only the latest iteration of those seeking to erase us. Hezbollah has a massive arsenal, Iran wants to nuke us, the Houthis are sending cruise missiles and ballistic missiles at our cities and Hamas has sent 10s of thousands of rockets at our cities. (Those Houthi missiles, by the way, are practice for the Iranians to understand how to get their missiles through.)

I can’t confidently say we’ll survive. Our enemies want us all dead. Me, my wife, my children. My kids’ schools all have an armed guard outside. Now they have 2 because past massacres have targeted school children. We don’t want them all dead. No Israeli – even the craziest right-wingers – want to kill every Arab or Palestinian (although some foolishly believe driving them away will solve things).

But they want us all dead. Not only that, but they may get the means.

And in the middle of this – when we are trying to deal with one axis of this monster in Hamas – the Canadians are cutting off our arms. The Americans are wringing their hands, limiting our access, and buying the Hamas starvation story (Israel is sending over 150 trucks a day with about 1,500 tons a day. A person can get by on 500g just fine, so this is enough for 2.7 million people) and limiting our weapons. We aren’t being allowed to finish the job and end the hard-core military operations so we can pivot to other existential threats and lift the level of disorder in the Strip.

I’m looking at this and saying: Do I really have to argue that my people shouldn’t be genocided? Do I really have to argue that the ridiculous accusation of genocide is just that?

This isn’t some far-off reality. Every city in Israel is within 25 miles of the ‘international’ border. Gaza is under 60km (35 miles) from my home. Hezbollah is 140 kilometers (90 miles) away. 70% of Palestinians think Oct 7th was the right thing to do. Why? Not just because civilians were slaughtered, but because the world is pivoting to support them and they’re evil.

So, you better believe I want my army – my friends and my friends’ kids – to disabuse them of that notion. No, I don’t want wholesale slaughter – a million Gazans would be dead if that were the goal. However, I do want every single member of Hama and Palestine Islamic Jihad dead. That is about 40,000 people. They are members of a genocidal cult in service to an ideology that wants to kill my children and isn’t so far from being able to do just that.

As far as I’m concerned, they don’t get to live.

Of course, that won’t happen. Israel is taking prisoners and has been since day 1. We are even treating them in hospitals. Maybe somebody somewhere believes some kind of reform is possible.

Are we free from sin? Of course not. Young men in an existential fight aren’t going to act like lawyers. But with October 7th, the mask has come off our enemies – they and their progressive fellow travelers demand ‘from the river to the sea’ and that means all of us, dead. They attack Jews and Jewish sites worldwide and that means all of us, not just those evil Israelis, dead.

The Jewish people will survive them. We’ll watch them swept away into the dustbin of history. The remains of Hadrian’s Wall are just across the river from the Gateshead Yeshiva. Where our enemies of old have crumbling ruins, we have living, vibrant, centers of learning.

We’ll survive them, as a people. But as our history shows, there is no guarantee that we won’t suffer terribly in the meantime. There is no guarantee that they won’t kill millions in the process of their own erasure.

Sometimes I have a hard time summoning up the will to argue. It is all so ridiculous.

Thankfully, parts of the Arab world are waking up. They are waking up to the limits of “no justice, no peace,” and are instead recognizing that you must pursue peace and progress despite injustice, because no justice is perfect (see my prior message). Jews aren’t going to get back what was taken from them in the Arab and Muslim and European worlds – but we moved on and made things that are far more valuable in our place of freedom. It’d sure be nice for the Arab world to follow in our footsteps.

On the messed up scale, the Arab world is one of the most backward places on the planet. With all their oil wealth, they only surpass Africa and South Asia on the Human Development Index. It is my hope that progress, even that represented by the slave-holding authoritarians of the Emirates, will take hold and lift both Arabs and Jews from the burden of this conflict.

I am always looking for a better tomorrow . My hopes, expressed in books like the City on the Heights and multiple pieces on this site like A Truly Free Palestine and A War Between Peoples Part I, are for peace, prosperity and advancement. Unfortunately that will only come when the exterminationalist movement is suppressed and supplanted. In the meantime, Palestinian society is doing whatever it can to make that hopeful tomorrow seem as unlikely as possible.

If you want more color, check out this piece about a chest-beating Israeli historian of the Nakba who thinks Hamas must be erased and Netanyahu is too much of a wuss to get done what needs to be done.

Published in Foreign Policy
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  1. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    Very well said. Thank you.

    • #1
  2. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    JosephCox: This exterminationalist attitude predates the State of Israel

    A useful analogy would be die-hard KKK members, who view blacks as contemptible inferiors who must always be under the boot heel of the white master race, all the while cloaking their rhetoric in dishonest talk about equal treatment. In fact, given the reality of 1400 years of Muslim oppression of Jews (and Christians and others) you can make a good case that Muslims have lost thrown away their moral right to rule over anyone and should not be trusted with power.

    • #2
  3. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    JosephCox: This exterminationalist attitude predates the State of Israel

    A useful analogy would be to die-hard KKK members, who view blacks as contemptible inferiors who must always be under the boot heel of the white master race, all the while cloaking their rhetoric in dishonest talk about equal treatment. In fact, given the reality of 1400 years of Muslim oppression of Jews (and Christians and others) you can make a good case that Muslims have lost thrown away their moral right to rule over anyone and should not be trusted with power.

    Hamas is an Islamist corollary to the KKK. But the KKK’s attitude and approach doesn’t mean white people or Christians can’t have power. Likewise Hamas’ (and the PA’s) approach doesn’t mean that Arabs and Muslims can’t have power. It is just that those who subscribe to their version of the KKK ideology (admittedly, far too many) have to be kept far from the ability to realize their dreams.

    • #3
  4. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    JosephCox (View Comment):
    But the KKK’s attitude and approach doesn’t mean white people or Christians can’t have power. Likewise Hamas’ (and the PA’s) approach doesn’t mean that Arabs and Muslims can’t have power.

    Well of course: The KKK sought to impose (restore) a white supremacist system. Islam is based on an Islamic-supremacist theory of government.

    • #4
  5. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    Well, you have a bit of everything in this piece.

    Selective history, misleading or outright false numbers ( less than 200 massacred Arabs ? Deir Yassin and the King David bombing gets you to about 200, even on the most conservative figures ), sentimental nonsense like the quote from Golda Meir about “…having forced us to kill their sons” – I doubt the old hag believed that herself.

    Then there’s your astounding arrogance and obvious belief that you really are something special – you’ve got a school full of Geordie Jews next to Hadrians wall – wow ! And you’re keen to kill 40,000 Hamas chaps – not take them prisoner or anything, so presumably you’d just execute anyone who is captured or surrenders.

    You chose to live in a part of the world surrounded by people who don’t want you there. You’ve managed to carve out a slice of it for yourselves by being better at terrorizing Arabs than they were at terrorizing you, but I fail to see why a Jew born in Belarus, for example, has a better to claim to some land in Palestine than an Arab born there, or even in an adjacent Arab country. 

    Jews ( at least those of European origin ) do have very high average IQs. Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen. 

    What I really find objectionable is that you think it’s fine for Israelis to be extremely nationalistic and defend their own interests, but then you find Jews at the forefront of undermining national borders for everyone else. Just one small example: Britain now has a bit of a surplus of Muslim and other third-world immigrants, who tend not to be very friendly towards Jews. Well, guess which religious/ethnic group did the most to enable mass immigration ?

    Anyway, I’ve seen enough “Hasbara” cr*p for today. 

    Oh, how’s that plan to sacrifice the red heifers as a prelude to building your Third Temple going ? ( There’s a group of religious nutjobs in Israel actually planning to do that this year ! ). It’s disturbing that a country currently run by religious fanatics has modern weapons and nukes. 

    • #5
  6. iWe Coolidge
    iWe
    @iWe

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen. 

    Name any country where you think “The Jews run the place.”

    Then name the countries where there are no Jews at all.

    Which would you prefer?

    • #6
  7. Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot) Member
    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patriot)
    @ArizonaPatriot

    I think that your view is completely inaccurate, historically.

    Israel was established by infiltrators and invaders, eventually engaging in aggressive warfare and terrorism to conquer the land of the Palestinians.  The plan of conquest and ethnic cleansing was part of Zionism, well before Israeli statehood.

    Israelis have not “just been slaughtered on a world-unprecedented scale.”  Over the decades, the Israelis have killed Palestinians at a ratio of around 20-to-1.  Fewer than 1,200 Israelis died in the October 7 attack, and there’s evidence that many of those were killed by Israel’s own forces.  Even if the correct figure were 1,200, that is hardly an unprecedented figure.  It’s a very small figure, compared to many other events.

    There are events that killed thousands, even tens of thousands, in a single day.  There are wars and persecutions that killed millions.

    The thing that is somewhat unusual, though only for the 21st Century, is the Israeli response.  The official death toll is over 32,000 now, including about 13,000 children and 8,400 women.  There are probably more unidentified bodies buried under the rubble.  The Israelis are actively attempting to starve a population of around 2 million Palestinians.

    I find the death ratio for children particularly instructive.  It’s over 300-to-1.  300 Palestinian kids killed for every one Israeli kid.

    Yet the Zionist side views the Israelis not only as the victims, but as victims “on a world-unprecedented scale.”  That is empirically false.

     

    • #7
  8. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Then there’s your astounding arrogance …

    They’re only trying to keep up with you, Cupcake.

    • #8
  9. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Well that was…interesting. What’s next, accusations that Jews poison Christian wells? Corrupt Muslim women with aphrodisiac-laced chewing gum? Make matzoh with the blood of Muslim children?

    • #9
  10. Percival Thatcher
    Percival
    @Percival

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio… (View Comment):

    I think that your view is completely inaccurate, historically.

    Israel was established by infiltrators and invaders, eventually engaging in aggressive warfare and terrorism to conquer the land of the Palestinians.  The plan of conquest and ethnic cleansing was part of Zionism, well before Israeli statehood.

    Do you have anything in the historical record to back up that pap? The extensive written record of the thriving ancient Palestinian culture, maybe?

    You don’t. And the reason you don’t is because there wasn’t a written record of the ancient Palestinian culture, and the reason for that was there were no ancient Palestinians. There don’t seem to have been any Palestinians prior to 1948.

    • #10
  11. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    Percival (View Comment):

     

    You don’t. And the reason you don’t is because there wasn’t a written record of the ancient Palestinian culture, and the reason for that was there were no ancient Palestinians. There don’t seem to have been any Palestinians prior to 1948.

    Well, there were Jews who called themselves Palestinians.

    For those who don’t know the bottom text in orange is in this thing called Hebrew script.

    • #11
  12. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    What I really find objectionable is that you think it’s fine for Israelis to be extremely nationalistic and defend their own interests, but then you find Jews at the forefront of undermining national borders for everyone else. Just one small example: Britain now has a bit of a surplus of Muslim and other third-world immigrants, who tend not to be very friendly towards Jews. Well, guess which religious/ethnic group did the most to enable mass immigration ?

    You seem to define Jews as having undermined Britain by allowing Muslims in while being hypocritical by not acting the same way in Israel. I think maybe you forget that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs. The UK is < 7.0%.

    On a per capita basis we have almost 3X as many Muslims as the UK. We didn’t expel all these people. But contrast that with the Palestinians (0 Jews), Egyptians (<10 people in a country of 111 million), Jordan (0 Jews, 11 million people), Syria (4 Jews, 22 million people), Lebanon (25 people in a country of 5.5 million).

    They are the ones who are ‘extremely nationalistic.’ We’re just trying to stop them from extending their policies to our homes.

    Of course, you’d support just such a policy. For you, Jews are the world’s poison.

    People like you are the reason why we need the ability to defend ourselves.  

    • #12
  13. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Percival (View Comment):

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):

    I think that your view is completely inaccurate, historically.

    Israel was established by infiltrators and invaders, eventually engaging in aggressive warfare and terrorism to conquer the land of the Palestinians. The plan of conquest and ethnic cleansing was part of Zionism, well before Israeli statehood.

    Do you have anything in the historical record to back up that pap? The extensive written record of the thriving ancient Palestinian culture, maybe?

    You don’t. And the reason you don’t is because there wasn’t a written record of the ancient Palestinian culture, and the reason for that was there were no ancient Palestinians. There don’t seem to have been any Palestinians prior to 1948.

    The region was impoverished and sparsely populated before immigration from Europe and Russia: Most of those who today call themselves “Palestinian” are descendants of Arabs who moved to what became Israel because of the economic boom created by Jews.

    And why was it impoverished? The legacy of the Arab Muslim conquest, which killed or subjugated the indigenous Christians and Jews, appropriating their land and turning them into tenants working for Muslim conquerors. The Arabs were not interested in hard work, preferring to exploit those who would work, and thus the Middle East and North Africa declined from “the breadbasket of the Roman Empire” to its sad state in the 19th century.

    Note also: Christian anti-Semitism was widespread in the region. The status of Christians could be compared to that of poor whites in the antebellum Deep South: Just as those poor whites were kept down by the wealthy plantation owners but could be proud of not being black, so Christians were oppressed by the Muslims but could take pride in not being Jews.

    • #13
  14. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):
    The region was impoverished and sparsely populated before immigration from Europe and Russia

    Mark Twain wrote about what he saw in the Holy Land in 1867.

    • #14
  15. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    iWe (View Comment):

    Name any country where you think “The Jews run the place.”

    Then name the countries where there are no Jews at all.

    Which would you prefer?

    Haha – quite a clever question but a false choice. I wouldn’t want to live in Saudi Arabia, but it’s missing the point. Japan is an exceptionally civilized country, for example, without much Jewish influence that I’m aware of. Britain became a wealthy country over several centuries when Jews were absent or denied any normal rights. 

    The real choice is whether you would prefer the USA as it is now, or without the biased media, depraved entertainment industry, creeping infringements on the First Amendment, unchecked immigration, insane foreign policy, offshoreing of manufacturing, woke universities, corrupt legal system, etc etc. All the above can be blamed on institutions which have been largely taken over by Jews.

    You also need to take into account the differences which would always exist between high IQ and low IQ countries, which nobody can really do anything to change, and the natural tendency that Jews would have to move to countries which were already prosperous.

    • #15
  16. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    Jerry Giordano (Arizona Patrio&hellip; (View Comment):
    Israelis have not “just been slaughtered on a world-unprecedented scale.”  Over the decades, the Israelis have killed Palestinians at a ratio of around 20-to-1.

    The limited mental capacity of our enemies is one reason we’re still around. Context? Well, the sentence immediately before the above was: “Let’s set ourselves back a few years, shall we? The State of Israel is established.”

    Hmmm?? What world-unprecedented scale slaughter had just taken place?

    You probably don’t know. Oh, wait, the King David Bombing!

     

    And yes, we’ve killed more Palestinians than Palestinians have killed Israelis. There’s a reason though. We have the capability to kill every Palestinian from the river to the sea. It would probably take a week or two. But we don’t.

    On the contrary, given the capability, the Palestinians would kill every Jew from the River to the Sea. Unfortunately not allowing them that capability comes at a cost. I wish it wasn’t so. I wish we could live in peace. But so long as they (and the likes of you who hate my people) continue to speak and act in the way you do, peace isn’t on the table.

    In that case, I’d rather they suffer the cost of their genocidal aspirations. So long as they seek to exterminate us I am under no obligation to lay down before their weapons or otherwise make it ‘fair.’

     

    Did you know only 12,000 American civilians died in World War II. Contrast that with 350-500,000 German civilians killed by Allied bombing. 30-1!

    Americans must be evil.

    • #16
  17. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Selective history, misleading or outright false numbers ( less than 200 massacred Arabs ? Deir Yassin and the King David bombing gets you to about 200, even on the most conservative figures )

    King David Bombing: 41 Arabs

    Deir Yassin (most conservative estimate): 107.

    Total ~ 200?!?

     

    Math is hard.

    • #17
  18. JosephCox Coolidge
    JosephCox
    @JosephCox

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    And you’re keen to kill 40,000 Hamas chaps – not take them prisoner or anything, so presumably you’d just execute anyone who is captured or surrenders.

    would. They aren’t soldiers, they have no legal protections. + they want to kill my family but I don’t want to kill theirs.

    So, yes, I would.

    This has got to stop and if the cost of engaging in terrorism and working with a terrorist organization is death it might just bring things to a significantly better place – ultimately, for everybody involved but the dead terrorists and those who will miss them (although considering martyr culture, maybe not).  

    However, the State of Israel won’t. That’s why we have around 3,500 captives from this war.

    • #18
  19. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    JosephCox (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Selective history, misleading or outright false numbers ( less than 200 massacred Arabs ? Deir Yassin and the King David bombing gets you to about 200, even on the most conservative figures )

    King David Bombing: 41 Arabs

    Deir Yassin (most conservative estimate): 107.

    Total ~ 200?!?

     

    Math is hard.

    91 total deaths in the King David bombing. So exclude Brits and others if you like from the latter, I’m sure you can find another 52 Arabs killed by your heroes.

    • #19
  20. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    JosephCox (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    What I really find objectionable is that you think it’s fine for Israelis to be extremely nationalistic and defend their own interests, but then you find Jews at the forefront of undermining national borders for everyone else. Just one small example: Britain now has a bit of a surplus of Muslim and other third-world immigrants, who tend not to be very friendly towards Jews. Well, guess which religious/ethnic group did the most to enable mass immigration ?

    You seem to define Jews as having undermined Britain by allowing Muslims in while being hypocritical by not acting the same way in Israel. I think maybe you forget that 20% of the citizens of Israel are Arabs. The UK is < 7.0%.

    On a per capita basis we have almost 3X as many Muslims as the UK. We didn’t expel all these people. But contrast that with the Palestinians (0 Jews), Egyptians (<10 people in a country of 111 million), Jordan (0 Jews, 11 million people), Syria (4 Jews, 22 million people), Lebanon (25 people in a country of 5.5 million).

    They are the ones who are ‘extremely nationalistic.’ We’re just trying to stop them from extending their policies to our homes.

    Of course, you’d support just such a policy. For you, Jews are the world’s poison.

    People like you are the reason why we need the ability to defend ourselves.

    Er, Britain started from a base of about zero Muslims not very long ago. Your bit of desert was, what, 80% Muslim when the guys from the Pale of Settlement showed up.

    • #20
  21. Globalitarian Misanthropist Coolidge
    Globalitarian Misanthropist
    @Flicker

    Percival (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Then there’s your astounding arrogance …

    They’re only trying to keep up with you, Cupcake.

    Is “cupcake” a personal attack or an affectionate confection.

    • #21
  22. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

     

    JosephCox (View Comment):

    Ok,  this is only indirectly related to your post but I’d like to know your opinion since you’re obviously very knowledgeable about the recent history of Israel and the activities of your security forces.

    ae911truth.org

    Just have a quick read of the above and tell me if you think they are wrong about any of the technical issues covered. 

     

    • #22
  23. The Reticulator Member
    The Reticulator
    @TheReticulator

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Jews ( at least those of European origin ) do have very high average IQs. Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen. 

    Why is “tribalism” and the “tendency to live off others as middlemen” considered unfortunate?  More tribalism can easily mean more strong communities in which people support each other rather than dysfunctional families who live off government welfare and require heavy government policing.   Think what it would do to an economy if there were no middlemen. That would be unfortunate, to put it mildly.    

    • #23
  24. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Jews ( at least those of European origin ) do have very high average IQs. Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen.

    Why is “tribalism” and the “tendency to live off others as middlemen” considered unfortunate? More tribalism can easily mean more strong communities in which people support each other rather than dysfunctional families who live off government welfare and require heavy government policing. Think what it would do to an economy if there were no middlemen. That would be unfortunate, to put it mildly.

    Fair enough, but I was trying to be concise.

    Tribalism could be good in the way that you describe, but it could also be detrimental if you have an influential minority with no loyalty to the country they happen to be living in – just to their own people and to a foreign country.

    There’s a classic example of shooting yourself in the foot by getting rid of a middleman class, when Idi Amin expelled the Asians from Uganda in the early 1970’s. Many of them came to the UK and did very well, while Uganda became even more of a basket case as most of the people who knew how to organise anything had been kicked out.

    I don’t think that example is really comparable to the USA or Britain though. Uganda has an average IQ around room temperature ( and NOT room temperature in the tropics….! ), whereas there is no need for relatively civilized countries to allow a hostile minority to take over any part of their economy. Just one example, although it’s not strictly a middleman role: I think most Americans with generally conservative views would agree that the media has a ridiculous leftist bias. We all know which ethnic group runs most of the mainstream media…..

    • #24
  25. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Jews ( at least those of European origin ) do have very high average IQs. Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen.

    Why is “tribalism” and the “tendency to live off others as middlemen” considered unfortunate? More tribalism can easily mean more strong communities in which people support each other rather than dysfunctional families who live off government welfare and require heavy government policing. Think what it would do to an economy if there were no middlemen. That would be unfortunate, to put it mildly.

    Indeed. Middlemen are not parasites who “live off others” but vitally important parts of any economy. The economist Thomas Sowell has written extensively on the economic roles that middlemen play. He has also explored global examples of prejudice against middleman minorities, from Jews in the West to Indians in Africa to Chinese in South Asia.

    Denunciations of Jews as parasitical middlemen is an ancient slur which reveals nothing about Jews but a great deal about the accuser. An intellectual and moral error of the first order.

     

    • #25
  26. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    The Reticulator (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    Jews ( at least those of European origin ) do have very high average IQs. Unfortunately that tends not to benefit the natives of countries where they settle, given their tribalism and tendency to live off others as middlemen.

    Why is “tribalism” and the “tendency to live off others as middlemen” considered unfortunate? More tribalism can easily mean more strong communities in which people support each other rather than dysfunctional families who live off government welfare and require heavy government policing. Think what it would do to an economy if there were no middlemen. That would be unfortunate, to put it mildly.

    Indeed. Middlemen are not parasites who “live off others” but vitally important parts of any economy. The economist Thomas Sowell has written extensively on the economic roles that middlemen play. He has also explored global examples of prejudice against middleman minorities, from Jews in the West to Indians in Africa to Chinese in South Asia.

    Denunciations of Jews as parasitical middlemen is an ancient slur which reveals nothing about Jews but a great deal about the accuser. An intellectual and moral error of the first order.

     

    See my comment #24 

    • #26
  27. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    See my comment #24 

    I saw it. It’s more paranoid filth.

    • #27
  28. TomRoberts57 Coolidge
    TomRoberts57
    @TomRoberts57

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    TomRoberts57 (View Comment):
    See my comment #24

    I saw it. It’s more paranoid filth.

    Well the average IQ in Uganda is between high 70’s and low 80’s depending on which source you want to look at.

    Am I being paranoid in saying that the political centre of gravity of the media is a long way to the left of average Americans, and what percentage of the mainstream media would you estimate is owned by Jews ?

    And if you took a poll of American Jews asking which side they would fight on if the USA went to war with Israel, what would you guess the result would be ?

    • #28
  29. Paul Stinchfield Member
    Paul Stinchfield
    @PaulStinchfield

    I prefer to read such evil, defamatory garbage in the original German. Verstehst du?

    • #29
  30. Zafar Member
    Zafar
    @Zafar

    Paul Stinchfield (View Comment):

    Well that was…interesting. What’s next, accusations that Jews poison Christian wells? Corrupt Muslim women with aphrodisiac-laced chewing gum? Make matzoh with the blood of Muslim children?

    Um…I would like some of that aphrodisiac-laced chewing gum if you have any….who wouldn’t?

    • #30
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